:00:58. > :01:02.It is already illegal for the security and intelligence agencies
:01:03. > :01:07.to further the interests of any political party. The bill goes
:01:08. > :01:11.further by putting the Wilson doctrine onto a statutory footing,
:01:12. > :01:17.requiring the Prime Minister's approval for the targeting of
:01:18. > :01:23.parliamentarians the medication is in addition to the Secretarx of
:01:24. > :01:27.State and additional Commissioner. You have opened up all sorts of
:01:28. > :01:31.trapdoor is that I would like to go down but I would like to know if you
:01:32. > :01:38.have actually met with people like the blacklist support group, with
:01:39. > :01:41.Liberty and organisations who actually have documented evhdence of
:01:42. > :01:48.police and security service wrongdoing, legal activities --
:01:49. > :01:52.illegal activities so that we can actually be sure the safegu`rds are
:01:53. > :01:55.utterly strong enough. I have had round table meetings with a number
:01:56. > :01:59.of organisations including those representing the journalist
:02:00. > :02:05.profession and also freedom of information organisations. The
:02:06. > :02:17.adherence of any public authority to existing legislation is for the
:02:18. > :02:20.regulators and any complaints can be followed up through those channels,
:02:21. > :02:25.but I would just say that the bill that we are debating currently
:02:26. > :02:30.provides for a whole range of additional safeguards on top of
:02:31. > :02:34.those that exist currently. Her statutory oversight of the tse of
:02:35. > :02:38.investigatory Powers, greatdr powers for the investigatory Powers
:02:39. > :03:05.emission to carry out investigations my Lords, I beg leave
:03:06. > :03:11.to asking the question standing in my name on the order paper. The
:03:12. > :03:13.Government has transferred responsibility for the regulation of
:03:14. > :03:19.high-cost credit and debt m`nagement firms to the Financial Condtct
:03:20. > :03:23.Authority. This more robust regime is hoping to protect consumdrs
:03:24. > :03:28.better. The Financial Conduct Authority is currently revidwing its
:03:29. > :03:32.consumer credit rules in relation to called selling, cold calling,
:03:33. > :03:35.particularly in relation to high-cost credit and debt m`nagement
:03:36. > :03:40.and expects to publish the outcome of this review by the end of the
:03:41. > :03:43.year. Cold calling is a hugd problem. The Financial Condtct
:03:44. > :03:47.Authority acknowledges that many of the 30 million cold calls sdlling
:03:48. > :03:52.debt management services ard misleading and damaging. In effect
:03:53. > :03:57.the most financially disadv`ntaged in our society. The Governmdnt has
:03:58. > :04:02.promised that the review will be published before the end of the
:04:03. > :04:07.year. Can the ministers say if this review will look at why cold calling
:04:08. > :04:14.for mortgages has long been banned but not for high-cost credit or four
:04:15. > :04:17.fee paying debt management services? The answer to the last part of the
:04:18. > :04:20.question is in relation to what happened with the introducthon of
:04:21. > :04:25.the right to buy back in thd 19 0s when there was some mis-selling by
:04:26. > :04:28.mortgage brokers, targeting council house tenants who had the bdnefit of
:04:29. > :04:31.a huge discount in the well and truly interested in the
:04:32. > :04:34.creditworthiness of those as mortgage borrowers and that is why
:04:35. > :04:37.that particular measure was introduced, so as far as cold
:04:38. > :04:43.calling is concerned, the Government will be introducing the leghslation
:04:44. > :04:53.through the digital bill whhch will place a statutory obligation via the
:04:54. > :04:57.Information Commissioner and also in the budget this year provishon was
:04:58. > :05:03.made to protect vulnerable people from cold calling. Isn't thd case
:05:04. > :05:08.that the coverage should take action now to actually a finite figure on
:05:09. > :05:15.what credit organisations c`n charge, especially because ht is
:05:16. > :05:25.normally the poorest people in the community who pay the highest rates
:05:26. > :05:31.of interest. We have in introduced a cap on payday loans. Is my noble
:05:32. > :05:36.friend aware that it is verx welcome that there is that you revidw being
:05:37. > :05:41.undertaken by the regulator? Nevertheless, it is not just cold
:05:42. > :05:44.calling. It is advertising that allegedly is being controlldd. I saw
:05:45. > :05:48.one last night on the televhsion and it was highly questionable. Is it
:05:49. > :05:51.not a matter of bringing together all the authorities, the advertising
:05:52. > :05:54.standards authority and the Financial Conduct Authority and the
:05:55. > :06:00.other bodies and not just h`ving a review but actually in action plan
:06:01. > :06:04.to sort it out because therd are many elderly people who are being
:06:05. > :06:08.duped out of thousands of pounds and is it not time we really took some
:06:09. > :06:13.action on this issue? I unddrstand the strong feelings held by many on
:06:14. > :06:17.this subject. So far as vulnerable people is concerned, as I s`id in
:06:18. > :06:23.the budget this year, a large sum of money was identified to help
:06:24. > :06:27.vulnerable people and enabld them to stop these sorts of calls bding made
:06:28. > :06:33.and so as far as cold calling is concerned by a debt managemdnt
:06:34. > :06:40.company or credit card comp`nies, there is a chord and if thex break
:06:41. > :06:50.it, they can be fined. Last month, one company had to repay ?34 million
:06:51. > :06:57.because it broke the guidelhnes My Lords, I declare an interest as
:06:58. > :07:05.patron of Christians against 30 an organisation that is based hn
:07:06. > :07:09.Bradford. -- Kristian Dacey poverty. With the Minister agree that this is
:07:10. > :07:12.an area where there is very significant participation bx the
:07:13. > :07:15.voluntary sector and witty tndertake to draw the attention of thd
:07:16. > :07:19.Financial Conduct Authority and other authorities to their
:07:20. > :07:24.participation so that they lay be listened to and their role received
:07:25. > :07:30.the recognition that will hdlp people in these situations? Of
:07:31. > :07:38.course. And can I pay tribute to the initiative taken in his setting up
:07:39. > :07:42.of life-savers, which is a joint prop -- project along with the
:07:43. > :07:46.church and is helping children to develop good financial habits that a
:07:47. > :07:48.young age by setting up savhng clubs in primary schools in partndrship
:07:49. > :07:53.with credit unions. I'll saw welcomed the initiative of the
:07:54. > :07:59.Church of England in establhshing the just Finance foundation to
:08:00. > :08:02.develop and implement the vhsion of a fairer and more just financial
:08:03. > :08:06.system and of course I will take on board the suggestions which are
:08:07. > :08:10.made. With the Government agree that part of the problem here is that we
:08:11. > :08:14.have so many different regulators involved with different products,
:08:15. > :08:17.whether it is the Information Commissioner, trading stand`rds or
:08:18. > :08:23.the SCA, that there is complete chaos and no one quite knows where
:08:24. > :08:27.they are protected and with which product and where there is `
:08:28. > :08:32.problem. If the indicating that only the dissolution that the Government
:08:33. > :08:36.will bring forward there will be one responsible individual across the
:08:37. > :08:40.board to coordinate that or is the Information Commissioner's he
:08:41. > :08:45.proposes a very narrow one? The Information Commissioner covers the
:08:46. > :08:48.wide variety of called coll`rs. This specific question is about high cost
:08:49. > :08:52.credit and debt management solutions. What is happening at the
:08:53. > :08:56.moment is that the Financial Conduct Authority is going through recess of
:08:57. > :08:59.authorising debt management firms and high-cost credit companhes and
:09:00. > :09:03.if they do not meet the high standards, they simply will not be
:09:04. > :09:12.allowed to go on carrying about their business and so it is not the
:09:13. > :09:16.case that it is a complete shambles. We transferred responsibility to the
:09:17. > :09:21.Financial Conduct Authority simply because they have a more robust
:09:22. > :09:27.regime of dealing with the hssue. What measures have we been `ble to
:09:28. > :09:42.take in relation to the calls that come from overseas? If they are
:09:43. > :09:49.calling on the of a company based in this country, we can take action
:09:50. > :09:54.because a high cost credit or debt management company that takds
:09:55. > :09:57.information from a telephond company based overseas has a responsibility
:09:58. > :10:01.to make sure that that overseas company acted in accordance with the
:10:02. > :10:09.code in this country, so we can get at them through the company is based
:10:10. > :10:15.here. How soon does the noble Lord and Minister expects the ch`nge to
:10:16. > :10:22.the Financial Conduct Authority will produce action? Because this problem
:10:23. > :10:28.has been with us and with the large numbers of our fellow citizdns for a
:10:29. > :10:32.very long time and the Government is saying well of course we nedd a
:10:33. > :10:37.cold. We know exactly what these companies are doing wrong. Ht is
:10:38. > :10:42.effective and dictation and then punishment which is required. The
:10:43. > :10:46.Financial Conduct Authority has brought right to the front of the
:10:47. > :10:49.queue the process of authorhsing the firms that the noble Lord h`s
:10:50. > :10:53.referred to. It is going through that process as we speak. And hopes
:10:54. > :10:57.to complete it relatively soon, depending on the progress that they
:10:58. > :11:00.make. As I said, those firms do not meet the high standards set, they
:11:01. > :11:08.will not be allowed to conthnue to carry out their trade. Vulndrable
:11:09. > :11:13.people and disadvantaged people want, need, desire credit as much as
:11:14. > :11:17.the rest of us. The problem is they can't afford to get cheap credit
:11:18. > :11:23.because their credit status is not high enough. I very much welcome the
:11:24. > :11:27.comments. With the noble lord the minister take back to querids
:11:28. > :11:31.particularly to the DWP? First, given that so many people are
:11:32. > :11:36.spending up to 25% of their income on debt repayment and that hs coming
:11:37. > :11:41.out of benefit income, could we ensure that job seeker's officers
:11:42. > :11:47.and benefit officers and other outlets, ensure that there hs a
:11:48. > :11:50.promotion of the credit union initiative and second, will he asked
:11:51. > :11:57.his colleagues in the DWP to look again at the ending of the social
:11:58. > :12:03.fund which produced regulatdd, cheap, safe credit for essentials
:12:04. > :12:11.for people, which is no longer available to them. I agree dntirely
:12:12. > :12:14.with the idea up moulting credit unions. We want a sustainable
:12:15. > :12:20.financial services sector and that is why we can invest in ?38 million
:12:21. > :12:22.of credit unions through thd Department for Work and Pensions
:12:23. > :12:25.credit union expansion projdct. I am also providing half ?1 millhon to
:12:26. > :12:29.help Armed Forces personnel access credit union services where they
:12:30. > :12:34.want to do so. For other initiatives, we are also taking the
:12:35. > :12:38.support of the credit union sector and I will bring her suggestion
:12:39. > :12:43.forward to my colleague is that the DWP. Can the Minister confirm that
:12:44. > :12:50.the Financial Conduct Authority will ensure that the companies do not
:12:51. > :12:55.participate in any of the forwarding on of contact details of people who
:12:56. > :13:01.are vulnerable which compild this so-called sucker's list, whhch has
:13:02. > :13:05.been exposed in which delibdrately target people who are very
:13:06. > :13:09.vulnerable, often with a degree of impaired mental capacity and who are
:13:10. > :13:15.in trapped cars of their situation and many of these people have failed
:13:16. > :13:19.to not take that their detahls can be handed on and therefore
:13:20. > :13:26.inadvertently have complied with the compiling of such lists. Thd noble
:13:27. > :13:30.Baroness has put finger on the problem. Many of these calls are not
:13:31. > :13:33.actually called calls, they are warm calls in and perhaps inadvertently
:13:34. > :13:38.they have ticked the box on a website which has enabled that site
:13:39. > :13:43.to contact them at a later date or even worse, share their det`ils with
:13:44. > :13:46.other providers. I hope this is something which the Financi`l
:13:47. > :13:49.Conduct Authority can pick tp as it goes through the authorisathon
:13:50. > :13:56.process and also, as I said in response to the initial question, it
:13:57. > :14:01.is reviewing the credit consumer rules in relation to cold c`lling at
:14:02. > :14:04.the moment, and I will ensure that the Financial Conduct Authority have
:14:05. > :14:10.taken on the very valid point that was just made. I am delightdd to
:14:11. > :14:13.hear that the Government is reviewing cold calling. I would just
:14:14. > :14:19.be grateful if my noble fridnd could confirm that the review of cold
:14:20. > :14:22.calling will also consider banning called calling for pensioners, in
:14:23. > :14:27.light of the freedoms that have recently been introduced? C`n I take
:14:28. > :14:31.this opportunity of thanking my noble friend for her servicds at the
:14:32. > :14:39.Department for Work and Pensions up until last July? Services which I
:14:40. > :14:50.now find myself having to do some of her work.