0:00:46 > 0:00:50Sovereign states can become members of the Commonwealth. Establishing a
0:00:50 > 0:01:05former Observer -- former Observer or associate status has to be agreed
0:01:05 > 0:01:09by all members. I thank you for the reply.
0:01:09 > 0:01:18Interesting. The 40 UK overseas territories, Scotland, Northern
0:01:18 > 0:01:20Ireland, and Wales are all members, supporting good governance,
0:01:20 > 0:01:28democracy, the rule of law. And the CPA is an international
0:01:28 > 0:01:32organisation. So why is it none of which appear to be represented at
0:01:32 > 0:01:38the forthcoming Parliamentary Forum at the London Commonwealth summit?
0:01:38 > 0:01:41Secondly, noble Lords will know how frequently politicians around the
0:01:41 > 0:01:51world, with or without connection to the UK, extend interest to admission
0:01:51 > 0:01:55to the Commonwealth. What action is the country taking to develop those
0:01:55 > 0:02:04interests in Commonwealth membership for our long-term benefit?
0:02:04 > 0:02:08On the second question, I agree, I think we need to identify new
0:02:08 > 0:02:12members. The noble Lord will be aware that Gambia has applied and it
0:02:12 > 0:02:15is currently going through the process for rejoining the
0:02:15 > 0:02:18Commonwealth which we hope will be in the early part of the New Year in
0:02:18 > 0:02:22time for the summit. In terms of representations of overseas
0:02:22 > 0:02:25territories and the devolved administrations, they form very much
0:02:25 > 0:02:30part of our thinking. We are their voice. Further to that as the
0:02:30 > 0:02:33minister responsible for the Commonwealth we are engaging
0:02:33 > 0:02:36directly with the devolved administrations. I'll be visiting
0:02:36 > 0:02:41the different parts of the UK in this respect. Also we are talking
0:02:41 > 0:02:44directly to the overseas territories, as well, to see how we
0:02:44 > 0:02:47can engage more effectively with them. And also perhaps involve them
0:02:47 > 0:02:52in some of the other events around the Commonwealth summit, such as the
0:02:52 > 0:02:56440 which will be taking place during the Commonwealth week.
0:02:56 > 0:03:03I wonder if this is the right approach. There are about at least
0:03:03 > 0:03:07six countries who are interested in more than associate status with the
0:03:07 > 0:03:11Commonwealth. He's right that it isn't in Britain's gift alone to
0:03:11 > 0:03:17deliver that. But we are hosts for a vast summit. And the question was
0:03:17 > 0:03:22rightly asked about whether we could invite countries as observers. Is it
0:03:22 > 0:03:27not in our interest to develop the point that the Commonwealth is
0:03:27 > 0:03:33obviously a fast transmission engine. And we should invite as many
0:03:33 > 0:03:39guests as possible to observe and be involved in some aspects, not the
0:03:39 > 0:03:43full membership, of the Commonwealth summit.
0:03:43 > 0:03:46I agree with the sentiments of my noble friend on the issue of soft
0:03:46 > 0:03:52power. I'm sure he was minded of a survey I saw last week that Britain
0:03:52 > 0:03:58maintains its top position of a global scale in terms of soft power.
0:03:58 > 0:04:02I am talking directly to the secretary-general and the
0:04:02 > 0:04:04Commonwealth Secretariat as well as other member states to pick up on
0:04:04 > 0:04:09some of the very point is my noble friend has raised. We will look to
0:04:09 > 0:04:12see how we can engage more effectively with those countries who
0:04:12 > 0:04:15are indicating their desire to join the Commonwealth family at some
0:04:15 > 0:04:23future point. One thing the Minister mentioned was
0:04:23 > 0:04:26the civil society forward. I welcome the Government's initiative in this
0:04:26 > 0:04:33and the thematic approach. One thing that concerns me is about civil
0:04:33 > 0:04:37society players and making sure we get the full attendance. Many of
0:04:37 > 0:04:42them work and live in hostile environments, particularly LGBT
0:04:42 > 0:04:45communities. What steps is the Government taking to ensure that the
0:04:45 > 0:04:51civil society forum are attended by everybody possible and those hostile
0:04:51 > 0:04:57governments don't put a stop on them attending.
0:04:57 > 0:05:01That is an important issue. He will also know that my right honourable
0:05:01 > 0:05:04friend the Prime Minister and indeed in our conversations we've talked
0:05:04 > 0:05:08about the assurance of making sure of the representation of civil
0:05:08 > 0:05:11society groups and including those from across the Commonwealth who
0:05:11 > 0:05:17represent very vocally, often with great courage, against very dire
0:05:17 > 0:05:21domestic circumstances, the important issues of LGBT rights. We
0:05:21 > 0:05:26are clear, and I'm sure it's a sentiment shared by everybody, LGBT
0:05:26 > 0:05:29rights are human rights. They are right and those voices need to be
0:05:29 > 0:05:33heard. We are certainly working with the Commonwealth Secretariat that
0:05:33 > 0:05:39that right is observed and discussed at the Commonwealth summit.
0:05:39 > 0:05:45The noble Lord and Minister very kindly recently met with me and
0:05:45 > 0:05:50representatives to discuss the possibility of a global malaria
0:05:50 > 0:05:55summit next year. Given his earlier comments about involving people in
0:05:55 > 0:05:59the forum would he agree with me that such a global summit would be
0:05:59 > 0:06:04an excellent opportunity both to engage with other countries and to
0:06:04 > 0:06:09show Commonwealth leadership on an issue of worldwide concern?
0:06:09 > 0:06:13The noble lady will know that I totally agree with her sentiments.
0:06:13 > 0:06:22We've had a constructive meeting, including with Malaria No More.
0:06:22 > 0:06:30We're making sure that our intent is reflected in the wider Commonwealth.
0:06:30 > 0:06:33And she will also understand I can't give the absolute firm commitment
0:06:33 > 0:06:37this has been agreed because we are still waiting on the responses from
0:06:37 > 0:06:41all 52 member states back to the Secretariat on the final agenda for
0:06:41 > 0:06:48the summit. Is the noble Lord the Minister aware
0:06:48 > 0:06:54of the concerns in a number of Commonwealth countries about their
0:06:54 > 0:07:04position should the UK leave the EU in terms of trade. He will know the
0:07:04 > 0:07:10economic impact upon almost all Commonwealth countries of that in
0:07:10 > 0:07:15terms of tariffs both into the UK potentially and onward into the EU.
0:07:15 > 0:07:20Is he going to assure them, can he reassure them?
0:07:20 > 0:07:25I hope the noble lady has been reassured by the efforts of my right
0:07:25 > 0:07:28honourable friend the Prime Minister in getting over that first deal
0:07:28 > 0:07:32which was done with our colleagues in the European Union. I hope that
0:07:32 > 0:07:38was a real appreciation from the Lib Dem bench there. Let's be clear that
0:07:38 > 0:07:42the issue of the Commonwealth is an important one. Our partners across
0:07:42 > 0:07:46the Commonwealth are clear about Britain's important position within
0:07:46 > 0:07:51the family of the Commonwealth. In terms of our leaving the EU, yes, we
0:07:51 > 0:07:55will be leaving, but we will also retain a new relationship with the
0:07:55 > 0:07:58European Union. In terms of our relationship with the wider
0:07:58 > 0:08:02Commonwealth I've had the good fortune in my role as Minister for
0:08:02 > 0:08:06the Commonwealth to travel widely from the Caribbean through Asia to
0:08:06 > 0:08:09Australasia. All countries are very keen to work bilaterally and
0:08:09 > 0:08:13collectively through the Commonwealth. A huge opportunity.
0:08:13 > 0:08:17And I think we all look forward to next April where we will see a new
0:08:17 > 0:08:21revitalisation of the Commonwealth family.
0:08:21 > 0:08:27Can the Government ensure there is a full discussion about the delivery
0:08:27 > 0:08:31of the sustainability goals. And perhaps take the opportunity
0:08:31 > 0:08:34beforehand of publishing the full and complete UK strategy for
0:08:34 > 0:08:39delivery of the goals by 2030? I'm sure the noble Lord is aware
0:08:39 > 0:08:49that sustainability will be discussed.
0:08:49 > 0:08:54I beg you to ask the question. England's recycling rate increased
0:08:54 > 0:09:00to 44.9% in 2016. There is certainly more to do. We're working to enable
0:09:00 > 0:09:07households to recycle a single set of materials. In England 88% of
0:09:07 > 0:09:12local authorities collect all five widely recycled Materials paper,
0:09:12 > 0:09:18card, plastic, bottles, glass, and cans. Many more now collect mixed a
0:09:18 > 0:09:21rigid plastics and separate food waste. Work is underway to
0:09:21 > 0:09:26standardise materials to be collected and recycled.
0:09:26 > 0:09:29I recognise some progress is being made and that we need long-term
0:09:29 > 0:09:35objectives. However there is a poor understanding of the rules on
0:09:35 > 0:09:40recycling. Example the destructive effect of black plastic or plastic
0:09:40 > 0:09:43fruit netting, all plastic coated coffee cups. Does the Minister
0:09:43 > 0:09:49recognise that many of us who have experience with the public sector
0:09:49 > 0:09:55doubt local authorities will ever make rapid progress that we need and
0:09:55 > 0:09:59excite the population to recycle in the way they need to do, unless we
0:09:59 > 0:10:07have one simple system. It's precisely why we have published
0:10:07 > 0:10:14the report on a consistency framework. We want better
0:10:14 > 0:10:18communications with householders who want an improvement in the
0:10:18 > 0:10:21recyclability of packaging materials. I would say there are
0:10:21 > 0:10:26some good examples of what can be done. Stroud, 40% increase, Maldon,
0:10:26 > 0:10:3311% increase, in one year. Lady Williams of Trafford, the council
0:10:33 > 0:10:42she led for such a long time, now 61.3% recycling. Which is, my Lords,
0:10:42 > 0:10:49the only really urban local authority on that top list. And
0:10:49 > 0:10:51that's why we are working particularly with urban local
0:10:51 > 0:10:55authorities to improve the situation.
0:10:55 > 0:10:59The noble Lord is very good at choosing his statistics. He will
0:10:59 > 0:11:04know I've drawn attention in the past to the success of Wales who won
0:11:04 > 0:11:08our second in the world for recycling household waste. In
0:11:08 > 0:11:15comparison to England that ranks 18 behind South Korea and Slovenia
0:11:15 > 0:11:18amongst others. Isn't the lesson here that the Welsh Government did
0:11:18 > 0:11:23not just leave the problem to local authorities, they provide the
0:11:23 > 0:11:26leadership including mandating the separate collections and statutory
0:11:26 > 0:11:29targets for recycling which is what made the difference. When is this
0:11:29 > 0:11:35Government going to follow their example?
0:11:35 > 0:11:40I'm delighted to congratulate anyone in the UK who does well. I'm very
0:11:40 > 0:11:45pleased that Wales is doing well. I endorse also those English
0:11:45 > 0:11:48authorities and Scottish local authorities who are seeking to
0:11:48 > 0:11:54improve the situation that we all know is a hugely important. That's
0:11:54 > 0:11:57why we are working with local authorities and industry because
0:11:57 > 0:12:03this is an issue which we have responsibility for. We have a target
0:12:03 > 0:12:07of 50% by 2020. We need to achieve that target. I am ambitious we go
0:12:07 > 0:12:11beyond in future years, as well.
0:12:14 > 0:12:19Greenhouse gas emissions from waste had been falling rapidly but this
0:12:19 > 0:12:23drop has flattened off notably over the last three years. Does the noble
0:12:23 > 0:12:28Lord the Minister agree with me that eliminating food and garden waste
0:12:28 > 0:12:31from landfill through better separation of household waste is
0:12:31 > 0:12:37critical and would help to drive further emissions reductions and to
0:12:37 > 0:12:40meet our carbon budgets, and indeed the separated waste could be used
0:12:40 > 0:12:46for biogas production? This is why we do want to make
0:12:46 > 0:12:52progress. I was very alarmed to hear that 70% off food and drink waste
0:12:52 > 0:12:58comes from households. In fact, £700 worth of food is thrown away each
0:12:58 > 0:13:03year by a family of four. We all in turn have to try and change some of
0:13:03 > 0:13:09our behaviour. It is precisely why we need to encourage more. 50% of
0:13:09 > 0:13:13councils in England are now having food waste collection. We are
0:13:13 > 0:13:19looking for that increase. But we also need to ensure that this 20% of
0:13:19 > 0:13:22food that UK households buy and throw away is no longer what happens
0:13:22 > 0:13:28in this country. It's one of the most successful acts
0:13:28 > 0:13:34of the coalition Government, putting 5p on plastic bags, which has
0:13:34 > 0:13:40reduced that problem considerably. What is the Government's present
0:13:40 > 0:13:45position on putting a charge on copy cups? The large number of which are
0:13:45 > 0:13:49not properly recycled. This would make a huge difference in terms of
0:13:49 > 0:13:52our sustainable economy for the future and what we throw away.
0:13:54 > 0:14:00He's right, we need to work very strongly on improving our record in
0:14:00 > 0:14:04recycling. That's why it's very important the paper cup recycling
0:14:04 > 0:14:08and recovery group is examining this matter in much more detail. I think
0:14:08 > 0:14:12it's really important we make progress on this. I'm very conscious
0:14:12 > 0:14:22that deaf... -- I'm very conscious that Defra have said that we use
0:14:22 > 0:14:27half the amount, but we need to improve on that and this is where we
0:14:27 > 0:14:36must do very quickly. In the past the noble Lord the
0:14:36 > 0:14:39Minister has quoted the very different levels of recycling in
0:14:39 > 0:14:44different local authorities. I wonder if he could tell us what the
0:14:44 > 0:14:48Government's thinking is on how we can incentivise local authorities
0:14:48 > 0:14:51who are not performing well to improve what they are doing, and how
0:14:51 > 0:14:55they can share best practice in order to increase their macro level
0:14:55 > 0:14:58of recycling?
0:14:58 > 0:15:03My Lords, there are very good examples of where this has gone
0:15:03 > 0:15:09well, the Kent resource partnership, for instance, increasing their
0:15:09 > 0:15:14cycling, 13 local authorities with a 66 million gross benefit for Kent
0:15:14 > 0:15:21taxpayers over seven years with only 7 million upfront. We need to work
0:15:21 > 0:15:24harder on an extensive guidance for local authorities on recycling, to
0:15:24 > 0:15:29increase revenue from recycling material, cutting contamination of
0:15:29 > 0:15:35drive recyclables but also, my honourable friend Terry Scott Fee
0:15:35 > 0:15:40has written to the 34 local authorities with the lowest
0:15:40 > 0:15:42recycling rates and we wish to work with them because we need to improve
0:15:42 > 0:15:46the situation.
0:15:52 > 0:16:02Macintosh.My Lords, I think the house would wish to hear from the
0:16:02 > 0:16:07representative of the Green Party. Thank you. The noble Lord Minister
0:16:07 > 0:16:12clearly will understand that incineration capacity is increasing
0:16:12 > 0:16:18quite fast, but at the same time, the residual waste stream that is
0:16:18 > 0:16:21going to incinerators is less than it ought to be to keep the
0:16:21 > 0:16:25incinerator going at full capacity. What is the Government doing to
0:16:25 > 0:16:30encourage local councils not to support incineration of materials
0:16:30 > 0:16:35that could be recycled. You want to increase recycling but your not
0:16:35 > 0:16:40going to if it is all going to incineration.My Lords, this issue
0:16:40 > 0:16:45is fairly complicated. The first issue we have concentrated upon in
0:16:45 > 0:16:49this cycle is prevention of waste and we need to concentrate on how
0:16:49 > 0:16:55much less should go into landfill, then how much less should go into
0:16:55 > 0:17:00incineration and how much we can reuse and recycle and with
0:17:00 > 0:17:03incineration, we must remember there is some energy recovery but we
0:17:03 > 0:17:06certainly need to do better in this country on reuse and recycling and I
0:17:06 > 0:17:09will perhaps want to discuss this matter with the noble lady in
0:17:09 > 0:17:16greater detail.My Lords, I beg leave to us to question standing
0:17:16 > 0:17:23when a order paper. The Government estimates that following the
0:17:23 > 0:17:28increase from £21,000 to £25,000 in the repayment threshold that applies
0:17:28 > 0:17:35to post-2012 student loans, 30-35% of borrowers with higher education
0:17:35 > 0:17:39loans and 40-45% of borrowers with advanced loans will repay their
0:17:39 > 0:17:45student loans in full. Of those starting courses in 2016-17, this
0:17:45 > 0:17:53would equate to 135,002 160,000 with higher education loans and up to
0:17:53 > 0:17:5648,000 borrowers with advanced learner loans, fully repaying their
0:17:56 > 0:18:01loans within the 30 year payment period.I'm grateful to the noble
0:18:01 > 0:18:06lord. What he said is the majority of students will never pay their
0:18:06 > 0:18:12loans in full. We also know that up to 45% of the total loan outlay will
0:18:12 > 0:18:18never be paid. My Lords, the poorest students end up with the biggest
0:18:18 > 0:18:22debt and last week, the National Audit Office said that two thirds of
0:18:22 > 0:18:28students considered by universities -- considered universities do not
0:18:28 > 0:18:33provide value for money and proper independent advice is not available
0:18:33 > 0:18:36to students when they make these decisions which have such a large
0:18:36 > 0:18:39financial consequence upon them. My Lords, how can we have confidence in
0:18:39 > 0:18:44the forthcoming review when the Government resolutely defends the
0:18:44 > 0:18:50present wretched system so determinedly? My Lords, will the
0:18:50 > 0:18:55noble Lord accept that the current system is failing? We need a new
0:18:55 > 0:18:59system which is fair to students. Well, the Labour Lord raised the
0:18:59 > 0:19:02number of fights but we believe the student loan system is working well
0:19:02 > 0:19:06but there is always room for improvement. On one of his points,
0:19:06 > 0:19:10we to believe that students to get good advice before they take on
0:19:10 > 0:19:14their loans and indeed, they have to sign some papers for that, but on
0:19:14 > 0:19:19some of his more major points, we are very keen to pursue the value
0:19:19 > 0:19:24for money approach and Joe Johnson in the Other Place has made it quite
0:19:24 > 0:19:27clear that universities must provide value for money for students and can
0:19:27 > 0:19:32I also say, which the house knows, that the whole graduate student
0:19:32 > 0:19:35payment system is designed with a deliberate subsidy in place and we
0:19:35 > 0:19:45are on track with a complicated formula to achieve it.The loans and
0:19:45 > 0:19:48the loan management, personal loan management, I think everybody would
0:19:48 > 0:19:53agree, is very much down to financial education amongst those
0:19:53 > 0:19:56students undergraduates. Is the noble Minister aware that in our
0:19:56 > 0:20:03report on financial exclusion and supported by the FCA report on
0:20:03 > 0:20:09financial lives 2017, it is identified that over 80% of all
0:20:09 > 0:20:13graduates complained that they have had little or no financial
0:20:13 > 0:20:15education. Can I ask what the Government is going to do about
0:20:15 > 0:20:20this?Well, clearly, particularly when the office for students is up
0:20:20 > 0:20:25and running from January, this is one of the issues that we will be
0:20:25 > 0:20:29looking at. It is very important indeed that students get the best
0:20:29 > 0:20:32experience at universities and are given the best advice, so the noble
0:20:32 > 0:20:37Lord makes a good point that that side is equally important in terms
0:20:37 > 0:20:44of giving them also advice on the financing of their courses.My
0:20:44 > 0:20:50Lords, in 1947, my brother and my husband went up to Oxford to read
0:20:50 > 0:20:55law and by brother became a High Court judge, my husband became
0:20:55 > 0:21:01senior partner of his practice and those degrees were hard-fought. They
0:21:01 > 0:21:06played sport in every section and I hope that the minister would agree
0:21:06 > 0:21:14with me that was done good value for money.Well, yes, my noble friend is
0:21:14 > 0:21:19right. Can I say that I think she is referring to degrees which were
0:21:19 > 0:21:22shorter than degrees that take place now and this is one of the reasons
0:21:22 > 0:21:26why this has was very keen to promote the idea of accelerated
0:21:26 > 0:21:30degrees, which we are consulting on, whereby degrees are undertaken in
0:21:30 > 0:21:35two years at less cost per year than they would be in three years. My
0:21:35 > 0:21:39Lords, with the Minister not agree that at the moment, we have got a
0:21:39 > 0:21:43situation where degrees have become totally monetised? And would it not
0:21:43 > 0:21:47be a good idea that we have a good, long, hard look to have something
0:21:47 > 0:21:51like a graduate tax brought him that would remove this idea of one huge
0:21:51 > 0:21:57debt hanging over those who take on a degree? Certainly, the noble Lord
0:21:57 > 0:22:01is right, a graduate tax was considered as part of the reforms
0:22:01 > 0:22:04that were considered several years ago. We do not think this is the
0:22:04 > 0:22:11right approach but we do think it is right that the students are able to
0:22:11 > 0:22:17take out loans that I am sure the noble Lord would agree increases the
0:22:17 > 0:22:22chances of having disappeared -- disadvantaged students at
0:22:22 > 0:22:28university.I know of are -- no other Government agency that charges
0:22:28 > 0:22:32the same percentage.I'm not going to be drawn into answering that
0:22:32 > 0:22:39question, but can I say the interest rates are very much set and I have
0:22:39 > 0:22:43said before, these are being kept under constant review and there will
0:22:43 > 0:22:48be a review forthcoming on higher education and funding.As the
0:22:48 > 0:22:52Government made any assessment on whether there will be any material
0:22:52 > 0:22:56difference in the sum is actually repay to Her Majesty is Treasury
0:22:56 > 0:23:01over the decades if the interest rates were said at a less use your
0:23:01 > 0:23:08ears level?I'm sure they have but I don't have those figures with me.
0:23:08 > 0:23:1490% of all those borrowers who entered repayment in April 2015
0:23:14 > 0:23:17already have fully repaid all are meeting their repayment obligations
0:23:17 > 0:23:21and this is testament to the fact that the payment at source system
0:23:21 > 0:23:28working closely with HMRC is working well.My Lords, I beg you to and
0:23:28 > 0:23:35asked the question in my name on the order paper.They are first of all
0:23:35 > 0:23:38welcome the noble lady to her first question at the dispatch box and the
0:23:38 > 0:23:44serious fraud office will remain independent and will continue to
0:23:44 > 0:23:47undertake its own investigations and prosecutions. The new powers would
0:23:47 > 0:23:52give the National Crime Agency the ability to task the serious fraud
0:23:52 > 0:23:55office to open a serious investigation but only with the
0:23:55 > 0:23:59agreement of the Attorney General and the Home Secretary. The serious
0:23:59 > 0:24:02fraud office will be a key partner in the National economic crime
0:24:02 > 0:24:09Centre.I am grateful to the noble lady the Minister for that answer.
0:24:09 > 0:24:13She will understand my rationale because the Conservative manifesto
0:24:13 > 0:24:17had pledged to scrap the SFO by folding it into the National Crime
0:24:17 > 0:24:21Agency, so my concern is this announcement this week is by no way
0:24:21 > 0:24:26the same policy by stealth and the SFA will remain independent and
0:24:26 > 0:24:30protected and that it can't be done task as well as task by ministers
0:24:30 > 0:24:39and it will remain independent from a political interference.I think I
0:24:39 > 0:24:43made it clear my first answer that it will remain independent in terms
0:24:43 > 0:24:48of the manifesto. We do need to continue to look at all options to
0:24:48 > 0:24:51improve our response to tackling economic crime but, yes, the SFA
0:24:51 > 0:24:58will remain independent.The ability of this new body to tackle broader
0:24:58 > 0:25:03economic crime would be greatly enhanced if we could extend the
0:25:03 > 0:25:05concept of corporate criminal liability particularly to issue such
0:25:05 > 0:25:10as money laundering and the mechanism for that is failure to
0:25:10 > 0:25:17prevent. Will Shipley including failure to prevent clauses in the
0:25:17 > 0:25:21sanctions and anti-money-laundering built going now through this House?
0:25:21 > 0:25:25My Lords, I am not involved in the sanctions and money-laundering Bill,
0:25:25 > 0:25:28unlike every other piece of legislation which I do seem to be
0:25:28 > 0:25:33involved in, but I will take the noble lady's point and I think the
0:25:33 > 0:25:40broader point here is there will be a multi-agency response to differing
0:25:40 > 0:25:45types of fraud and that, actually, as a partnership, they will perhaps
0:25:45 > 0:25:55do more good than a series of isolated bodies.Will the noble lady
0:25:55 > 0:26:00confirmed that one of the most effective British crime-fighting
0:26:00 > 0:26:03agencies is the British Transport Police and would it not be a
0:26:03 > 0:26:06travesty of the Scottish Government were allowed to incorporate the
0:26:06 > 0:26:09northern part of the British Transport Police into the chaos that
0:26:09 > 0:26:17is Police Scotland?Well, I wish I had listened to the statutory
0:26:17 > 0:26:22instrument that the noble Lord was talking at the other day more in
0:26:22 > 0:26:28depth, instead of looking at my own notes for my own statutory
0:26:28 > 0:26:31instrument but I understand transport is devolved and therefore
0:26:31 > 0:26:34it would be a matter for the Scottish Government but I will look
0:26:34 > 0:26:37into that more closely for the noble Lord because it is not precisely my
0:26:37 > 0:26:44area.I have an interest in policing in particular and share the
0:26:44 > 0:26:47independent reference group in the National Crime Agency but could the
0:26:47 > 0:26:51noble lady explained Ross why the National Crime Agency has been given
0:26:51 > 0:26:56these particular responsibilities and that this is not a task that has
0:26:56 > 0:27:00been passed to the City of London police, who have the lead
0:27:00 > 0:27:06responsibility for fraud matters? Necessarily suggesting the City of
0:27:06 > 0:27:09London police should take on these additional responsibilities but
0:27:09 > 0:27:12could the noble lady explained whether there is any incoherence in
0:27:12 > 0:27:17Government policy in terms of these two different agencies and
0:27:17 > 0:27:20authorities and forces being given responsibilities in the fraud area.
0:27:20 > 0:27:26Isn't that going to be rather confusing for people?I hope I can
0:27:26 > 0:27:29satisfy the noble Lord when I say the national economic crime Centre
0:27:29 > 0:27:32will be hosted by the NCA but it will be staffed by partners from
0:27:32 > 0:27:39across the law enforcement community. For example, the NCA, the
0:27:39 > 0:27:46FCA, HMRC and the City of London police as well as the serious fraud
0:27:46 > 0:27:49police office and private sectors, so it will be a multifaceted
0:27:49 > 0:27:56approach to this, rather than a fragmented one which he suggests.Is
0:27:56 > 0:28:03the Minister aware that the Scottish Conservative Party, in its
0:28:03 > 0:28:06manifesto, expressed its opposition to the devolution of the British
0:28:06 > 0:28:11Transport Police to Scottish police and will she therefore, with her
0:28:11 > 0:28:14colleagues in Scotland, do her best to reverse this ill judged and very
0:28:14 > 0:28:21dangerous move?Well, I am aware of what the Scottish Conservatives are
0:28:21 > 0:28:27saying. Nevertheless, the desire for devolution in... Not only in
0:28:27 > 0:28:33Scotland and Wales, has been strong and therefore the fact that this is
0:28:33 > 0:28:39edible matter is probably beyond my remit today, but of course, the
0:28:39 > 0:28:45Scottish Government have been so strongly in favour of devolution.
0:28:45 > 0:28:52Can I just point out to the noble lady that of course transport is not
0:28:52 > 0:28:56just a Scottish matter. Some transport across the border and come
0:28:56 > 0:29:01into England as well. I travel every week down here by train does that
0:29:01 > 0:29:08mean the transport police will now be stopped at Carlisle and therefore
0:29:08 > 0:29:14a new police force had to take over thereafter?
0:29:14 > 0:29:19I take the noble Lords point. I never thought this question we get
0:29:19 > 0:29:24down the line of transport, or I would have listened more carefully
0:29:24 > 0:29:32to the Noble Lord's points and debate.Could the noble lady tell us
0:29:32 > 0:29:35what has happened to the Government's national infrastructure
0:29:35 > 0:29:39policing review which could have impacted on transport or you could
0:29:39 > 0:29:43argue infrastructure was part of the economic system and then maybe
0:29:43 > 0:29:49impacted him by the move. Where is the national infrastructure review?
0:29:49 > 0:29:53I will have to write to the Noble Lord on that point, because we are
0:29:53 > 0:29:58now down another avenue. That isn't fraud.