:00:00. > :00:15.Hisham Matar Has written two books exploring the tragedy of Libya where
:00:16. > :00:19.his family was torn apart in the Gaddafi revolution and where his
:00:20. > :00:24.father disappeared. In his new book The Return, he tells the haunting
:00:25. > :00:29.story of his own attempt to find out what happened to his father, was he
:00:30. > :00:33.perhaps still alive in prison, if not, how did he die? It's a journey
:00:34. > :00:39.into the heart of a broken country through public deceit and violence
:00:40. > :00:41.and an intensely personal story that is also a plea for humanity and
:00:42. > :01:06.decency. Welcome. Having dealt fictionally with
:01:07. > :01:11.aspects of the Libyan tragedy, do you think it was inevitable at some
:01:12. > :01:17.point that you would tell a story directly that was even more
:01:18. > :01:24.personal? You know, when I went to Libya in 2012 after the fall of
:01:25. > :01:28.Gaddafi it was the first time I went back after 33 years so there is this
:01:29. > :01:36.place that has preoccupied me on so many levels for my life and finally
:01:37. > :01:41.I was there and the feeling was that I was being submerged and the only
:01:42. > :01:47.way I could come up for air was to write so I kept a notebook and wrote
:01:48. > :01:52.every day and when I got back home for the first time in my life, I did
:01:53. > :01:57.not write a word for two or three months. I was silenced by the
:01:58. > :02:02.experience of being there for a month. Re-engaging with the place,
:02:03. > :02:08.my family, trying to find out what had happened to my father. And then
:02:09. > :02:12.I started writing. And it was really the beginning of this book, The
:02:13. > :02:16.Return. It is about the search for your father and we can say, though
:02:17. > :02:26.there are elements of mystery here which people find... Almost
:02:27. > :02:30.thrilling although the terrible, but there is no easy resolution at the
:02:31. > :02:35.end of the book. We can say that. Nonetheless, did you get consolation
:02:36. > :02:40.despite the fact that the central question was never fully answered
:02:41. > :02:45.question mark this is why I wrote it. I wrote it because I wanted a
:02:46. > :02:52.space to think about this, this fate, the fact that, you know, you
:02:53. > :02:56.lose your father in a way that is inconclusive, you don't know where
:02:57. > :03:04.he is, the foam and Mark -- final moments, where he might be, etc, is
:03:05. > :03:10.unique. It is not totally unique in the sense that we all share some
:03:11. > :03:17.common ground is with not knowing our father completely, I use the
:03:18. > :03:24.book to think about that. And the violence that engulfed him, set
:03:25. > :03:27.against a regime entered into prison, you assume you talk to
:03:28. > :03:34.prisoners and you and pick some of the horrors that attended semi-lives
:03:35. > :03:38.in Libya throughout your lifetime and you knew much of it before you
:03:39. > :03:42.began, you how dreadful it was, you dealt with these things in fiction
:03:43. > :03:46.before but coming across them with respect to own family again and
:03:47. > :03:51.deliberately uncovering the story piece by piece or trying to, must
:03:52. > :03:59.have been a profound experience. It was profound but peculiar because I
:04:00. > :04:05.felt lucky... I felt lucky to be able to write the book, I felt lucky
:04:06. > :04:10.the book was in my life and I had the tools to work with it, my
:04:11. > :04:15.approach even to the material was the approach of an artist, I am
:04:16. > :04:19.thinking of form and ideas and history so when I say I am lucky, I
:04:20. > :04:27.am lucky in the sense that nobody chooses his books, the books choose
:04:28. > :04:31.the right and this was like an incredibly strong horse that always
:04:32. > :04:35.felt its abilities and appetites felt beyond my own abilities and
:04:36. > :04:41.appetite so it stretched me in now way. These things matter in the book
:04:42. > :04:46.and the experience of being in Libya but also throughout the years is an
:04:47. > :04:51.experience that could really submerge you. It is almost like
:04:52. > :04:57.somebody, history has you by the neck and is drowning you. As a
:04:58. > :05:02.writer, and as an artist, if you could some of that there is a whiff
:05:03. > :05:11.of a feeling success. It is unusual to read a memoir which disses in
:05:12. > :05:16.which you meet your fathers enemies, those who run the country and try to
:05:17. > :05:23.discover what they did to him, what was done to him in their name, this
:05:24. > :05:30.is an unusual set of circumstances. Yes, sitting with a man whose father
:05:31. > :05:38.abducted your father... Gaddafi s son. And most probably killed my
:05:39. > :05:44.father and also the man I am sitting with his entire power, the clothes
:05:45. > :05:48.on his back were burnt by the deeds of the regime so it is a complex
:05:49. > :05:53.situation but it is the situation exactly because it is complex, you
:05:54. > :05:59.must not collapse it you must always at that moment sitting with a human
:06:00. > :06:09.being. Inevitably, forgiveness of rises. Yes, because in some way if
:06:10. > :06:16.you ask me how to put out the fire, the fire is going to be put out by
:06:17. > :06:23.revenge, it would put up a justice. Yes, but also a recognition of the
:06:24. > :06:30.crime. And with it a genuine sense of remorse. I felt at that moment a
:06:31. > :06:36.sitting that my fate was easier than his. On some level it is easy being
:06:37. > :06:40.my father s son. He was a good man, he was brave, he stood for his
:06:41. > :06:46.principles it is far more complicated in the sum of Gaddafi.
:06:47. > :06:51.That was interesting. You have the sadness and pain of loss but you
:06:52. > :06:58.have the pride of a life you believe was honestly and well lived. Yeah,
:06:59. > :07:05.in the book I put it but one thing I said to him was my father is my
:07:06. > :07:10.crown. It is nothing he can or the regime can give me that would take
:07:11. > :07:16.all adds to that. There is a fallacy about things closing, somehow one
:07:17. > :07:21.comes to some sort of tidy resolution and can pack away the
:07:22. > :07:25.past and put it away. It is learning to cope. Yes, and one thing the book
:07:26. > :07:29.is interested in is the nature of grief, perhaps we have missed
:07:30. > :07:38.something in our modern times with the value of a genuine engagement
:07:39. > :07:47.with grief. Always the point is to find the place of grace. Where you
:07:48. > :07:55.can be attentive to the past... And at the same time free. Hisham Matar,
:07:56. > :08:00.thank you very much. Thank you.