Antony Beevor

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:00:00. > :00:00.FTSE 100. We have our special programme on the US presidential

:00:00. > :00:00.debate at eight o'clock. Between now and then, it is time to meet the

:00:00. > :00:18.author. Hitler's last gamble and the battles

:00:19. > :00:21.on the Western Front that decided Antony Beevor's latest

:00:22. > :00:23.military history takes us to the Ardennes in 1944,

:00:24. > :00:26.where a bloody campaign reached its climax at Christmastime

:00:27. > :00:28.and after which, the endgame began. Hitler had failed, but among

:00:29. > :00:31.the allies who now began to move towards Berlin,

:00:32. > :00:33.seeds of distrust had been sewn on that battlefield

:00:34. > :00:35.and promised trouble to come. It was Hitler's last throw

:00:36. > :00:45.of the dice after the assassination plot against him had

:00:46. > :00:48.failed in the summer. Was there ever any chance that it

:00:49. > :00:51.might have succeeded? Because everything had to go right

:00:52. > :00:56.according to plan and the Germans And frankly, the Germans had

:00:57. > :01:01.never reacted slowly. The allies always underestimated

:01:02. > :01:03.the German capacity What was it he was trying to do,

:01:04. > :01:14.in that push towards the end of 1945, that reached its climax

:01:15. > :01:17.almost on Christmas Day, what really was the objective

:01:18. > :01:22.and what hope was he clinging to? His hope was, rather

:01:23. > :01:25.than being crushed from East and West both from the Red Army

:01:26. > :01:28.in the east and the allies in the West, that by this throw

:01:29. > :01:31.of the dice, this desperate throw of the dice, he could break

:01:32. > :01:33.through the Ardennes, swing north, cut off the British

:01:34. > :01:35.and the Canadians He thought this might even provoke

:01:36. > :01:42.a sort of Dunkirk-style evacuation and even knock one

:01:43. > :01:46.of the allies out of the war. It was madness and the German

:01:47. > :01:48.generals were appalled, I suppose an outsider looking back

:01:49. > :01:54.at the period might say, well, D-Day had happened in June 1944,

:01:55. > :01:57.everything was going well, the allies were on their way

:01:58. > :02:00.to Berlin, surely it was And of course, the opposite was true

:02:01. > :02:07.because the horror of this campaign, which emerges from the diaries

:02:08. > :02:09.and the accounts that you quote, in extent,

:02:10. > :02:11.it was really terrible? In fact, many people at the time,

:02:12. > :02:18.especially on the German side, compared it to Stalingrad

:02:19. > :02:20.because of the weather conditions, but also

:02:21. > :02:22.because of the savagery Of course, it wasn't in a city,

:02:23. > :02:26.but the mistake of the allies really, was to believe that bomb

:02:27. > :02:29.plot in July meant that the German In fact, the opposite had happened,

:02:30. > :02:34.it meant that the Nazis had total control and there

:02:35. > :02:37.was no chance of surrender Well, it's such an interesting

:02:38. > :02:41.point this isn't it, the way the plot unfolded

:02:42. > :02:46.and of course Hitler and his circle, to those who had been involved

:02:47. > :02:52.was so vicious in July 1944. And then the apparatus of the regime

:02:53. > :02:56.took a grip in a way Himmler was given total control over

:02:57. > :03:01.the replacement army He was even given field

:03:02. > :03:06.commands and so forth. And the SS, of course,

:03:07. > :03:09.was made even more of a praetorian guard, so anybody in the army

:03:10. > :03:12.who raised any objection was liable And the strange thing about this

:03:13. > :03:26.period is that on the other side, on the Allied side, our own side,

:03:27. > :03:28.there was terrible trouble, particularly, and let's go straight

:03:29. > :03:31.to the heart of it, Unfortunately, Montgomery,

:03:32. > :03:33.who handled the battle rather well, managed to exasperate

:03:34. > :03:36.the Americans to a degree one Montgomery was given command

:03:37. > :03:43.over the northern sector and the trouble was,

:03:44. > :03:45.he almost insulted Bradley was feeling terribly hurt

:03:46. > :03:56.and all the rest of it. Then he came to this crucial press

:03:57. > :03:58.conference in January, when Montgomery basically claimed

:03:59. > :04:01.credit for winning the whole battle. The Americans were so furious,

:04:02. > :04:04.so anti-British as a result. And right to the end of his life,

:04:05. > :04:07.Eisenhower had still never When it was the conference on Malta,

:04:08. > :04:13.just before Yalta, the Americans were refusing to listen

:04:14. > :04:16.to the British at all, And in fact, the British lost

:04:17. > :04:23.all influence in Allied councils, not just at the end of the war,

:04:24. > :04:26.but even after them. In this campaign we see distilled,

:04:27. > :04:29.a lot of the tension We see laid bare, you know,

:04:30. > :04:34.the horror of a system in Germany where, what you might call

:04:35. > :04:37.the regular army, was aware it was over,

:04:38. > :04:44.they were facing disaster. Yet, a maniacal man

:04:45. > :04:46.in the middle of it, convinced he might still win,

:04:47. > :04:49.having to be driven through Berlin in the dark so that he couldn't see

:04:50. > :04:52.the destruction of the city, He could indeed because of total

:04:53. > :04:56.fear, total power in The trouble was, nobody

:04:57. > :05:01.within the army could actually Once he'd made a decision,

:05:02. > :05:07.then that was the end of it. The trouble was, as I think another

:05:08. > :05:13.book has shown, Hitler was in the grip of drug addiction

:05:14. > :05:18.at this particular stage. Soon it was going to be the problem

:05:19. > :05:21.of basically coming off drugs and not being able to make clear

:05:22. > :05:26.decisions at that particular point. But here, he was totally out

:05:27. > :05:31.of reality in every way. It's impossible to talk

:05:32. > :05:37.about the strategic shape of this period of the war and the decisions

:05:38. > :05:45.made by generals, without lacing that story with the horrendous

:05:46. > :05:48.experience of men on both sides. It certainly is, and also the poor

:05:49. > :05:52.Belgian civilians who were caught up Everybody was suffering

:05:53. > :05:55.in that particular way, partly because of the weather

:05:56. > :05:59.conditions, but also because of the nature

:06:00. > :06:03.of the fighting, this pitiless warfare that was started of course

:06:04. > :06:07.by Hitler's demanded that all human instinct should be set

:06:08. > :06:11.aside, total brutality. He wanted the shock and awe

:06:12. > :06:14.of terror and that meant shooting prisoners and shooting

:06:15. > :06:17.Belgian villagers as well. Which the SS started and then

:06:18. > :06:21.of course the Americans did not hang You've written so much about this

:06:22. > :06:28.conflict, the end in Berlin, going back to Stalingrad,

:06:29. > :06:30.D-Day of course, the I think there's always more

:06:31. > :06:38.to say, because there's I don't think we are necessarily

:06:39. > :06:46.going to change the course of the history of the Second World

:06:47. > :06:49.War, but I think one can always Purely by really delving deeper

:06:50. > :06:54.and deeper in those archives. I suppose talking about the human

:06:55. > :06:58.experience, which you feel is so important in giving the story

:06:59. > :07:04.texture, there are always new cachets of letters, diaries

:07:05. > :07:07.and reminiscences coming to light? In some ways, it's more reliable,

:07:08. > :07:13.I think, than interviewing people What one wants to have are those

:07:14. > :07:17.contemporary accounts. And I'm amazed at how many diaries

:07:18. > :07:20.were kept, often illegally by both But the need to testify,

:07:21. > :07:28.particularly, was the case with many civilians who really did know

:07:29. > :07:31.they were witnesses to something important and they

:07:32. > :07:33.kept these accounts. This is where one can really

:07:34. > :07:37.recreate the reality of what it was like for a generation

:07:38. > :07:40.for whom the Second World War now You realise, if you go to Belgium,

:07:41. > :07:47.parts of the Netherlands, that part of France where they all

:07:48. > :07:50.meet essentially on the German border in the forests

:07:51. > :07:52.of the Ardennes. When you go there and you remember

:07:53. > :07:57.the diaries you've read and the accounts that you've gone

:07:58. > :08:00.through of what happened there, you must feel that it's a ghostly

:08:01. > :08:03.place with some memories You only need to go into the forest

:08:04. > :08:13.to get some of the atmosphere Some of the barns, you'll still see

:08:14. > :08:19.these littered tanks, The presence of the war

:08:20. > :08:26.is still there, along with obviously the memory of the old people,

:08:27. > :08:30.and that's been passed