0:00:01 > 0:00:04Now it's time for this week's Meet the Author.
0:00:04 > 0:00:08The Irish writer Paula McGrath's novel, A History of Running Away,
0:00:08 > 0:00:12is about three women separated by time and place,
0:00:12 > 0:00:17who are all trying to escape the circumstances of their lives.
0:00:17 > 0:00:20They're all connected, although we don't know how
0:00:20 > 0:00:23at the start of the book, and their stories are about
0:00:23 > 0:00:25a society that seems to thwart them at every turn,
0:00:25 > 0:00:27but then perhaps begins to offer something different,
0:00:27 > 0:00:31and something hopeful.
0:00:31 > 0:00:41Welcome.
0:00:45 > 0:00:50What fascinated you about these three women who are
0:00:50 > 0:00:53apart but connected?
0:00:53 > 0:00:58I began with Jasmine, who's our 1980s character
0:00:58 > 0:01:01who decides that she wants to box.
0:01:01 > 0:01:03Which wasn't allowed at that time for women.
0:01:03 > 0:01:08That's right, yes, which I didn't realise initially.
0:01:08 > 0:01:12I had an image of a character, which is unusual for me
0:01:12 > 0:01:15because usually, I forget to write what they look like at all.
0:01:15 > 0:01:17But this character was extremely vivid to me.
0:01:17 > 0:01:22She had...
0:01:22 > 0:01:24She was the 1980s rural only goth in the village,
0:01:24 > 0:01:28so I knew my setting would be '80s, and I knew it was rural
0:01:28 > 0:01:29Ireland to begin with.
0:01:29 > 0:01:31She runs away from home because she wants to join
0:01:31 > 0:01:34Legs Co initially, but the BBC gave her short shrift
0:01:34 > 0:01:42and she ends up back in Dublin and discovers boxing.
0:01:42 > 0:01:44At the time that I was starting to think about this
0:01:45 > 0:01:46novel in the beginning,
0:01:46 > 0:01:48I was fascinated by Katie Taylor, the Irish boxer.
0:01:48 > 0:01:50She was fighting for Olympic gold, and there was something
0:01:50 > 0:01:53about the fact that boxing had been illegal and now she was
0:01:53 > 0:01:54winning a gold medal.
0:01:54 > 0:01:56Did you have any feelings about women's boxing?
0:01:56 > 0:02:00Not really, it wasn't something I wanted to do.
0:02:00 > 0:02:07I had one attempt at kickboxing and fell out of the gym.
0:02:07 > 0:02:10It was very strenuous, so I had no objection, but no
0:02:10 > 0:02:11real interest myself.
0:02:11 > 0:02:13So let's talk about the other two principal characters,
0:02:13 > 0:02:15since we have started off with Jasmine.
0:02:15 > 0:02:21Jasmine led me back to her mother's story, and through her to Ali,
0:02:21 > 0:02:26who is a recently orphaned teenager who was running away
0:02:26 > 0:02:29from her grandparents - grandparents that she didn't know
0:02:29 > 0:02:31until recently that she has.
0:02:31 > 0:02:34She's in Maryland in the States, and it's not
0:02:34 > 0:02:36clear what the connection is between the characters
0:02:36 > 0:02:38to the reader at this point.
0:02:38 > 0:02:41The other narrator is a gynaecologist in present-day
0:02:41 > 0:02:43Dublin, and she's increasingly frustrated with her
0:02:43 > 0:02:46working conditions.
0:02:46 > 0:02:48So they are all imprisoned in different ways?
0:02:48 > 0:02:49Yes, you could say that.
0:02:49 > 0:02:54They feel the need to run.
0:02:54 > 0:02:56In any case, they all run, and in Jasmine's case
0:02:56 > 0:02:59she runs away twice.
0:02:59 > 0:03:02I suppose we have our fight or flight options, and they go
0:03:02 > 0:03:03for flight each time.
0:03:03 > 0:03:05The gynaecologist is on the brink, she is trying
0:03:05 > 0:03:09to decide whether to stay.
0:03:09 > 0:03:12They have all got great difficulties either because of intimate
0:03:12 > 0:03:14relationships, work, family or by the social pressures
0:03:14 > 0:03:16around them, and they seem to be trying to escape.
0:03:16 > 0:03:19But there's a feeling in the book that things in that respect
0:03:19 > 0:03:20may be getting better.
0:03:20 > 0:03:21Is that how you feel?
0:03:21 > 0:03:24I did feel that from looking at the boxing story, certainly,
0:03:24 > 0:03:27things were getting better.
0:03:27 > 0:03:28Obviously, Katie Taylor is a shining example
0:03:28 > 0:03:31of why women should be allowed to decide whether or not
0:03:31 > 0:03:34they want to box.
0:03:34 > 0:03:37It's not for everybody, but there were and still are other
0:03:37 > 0:03:39things that women can't do, that they're not allowed
0:03:39 > 0:03:43to decide for themselves.
0:03:43 > 0:03:45And I don't feel that that's getting better.
0:03:45 > 0:03:47It needs to change, but there was an anger underlying
0:03:48 > 0:03:56the writing of the book.
0:03:56 > 0:04:00It was inescapable for me, and I think for many,
0:04:00 > 0:04:05to think that you are living at home in Ireland in a society which has
0:04:05 > 0:04:07changed radically, really, in the last, even the last decade.
0:04:07 > 0:04:09The country has gone through an economic crash,
0:04:09 > 0:04:11a recovery, and now seems to be booming again.
0:04:11 > 0:04:13It has a sort of irrepressible self-confidence about it.
0:04:13 > 0:04:16You've lived through a very dramatic period in the history
0:04:16 > 0:04:24of Ireland, haven't you?
0:04:24 > 0:04:28Yes, starting from the '80s, I came to Dublin to college
0:04:28 > 0:04:32in the '80s and it feels to me that we have come, in a way,
0:04:32 > 0:04:33almost a full circle,
0:04:33 > 0:04:39a second recession.
0:04:39 > 0:04:43Going back to the abortion referendum again,
0:04:43 > 0:04:46it happened in the early '80s and yet we're back again
0:04:46 > 0:04:50in 2014, 2016, 2017, and there's fresh new scandals.
0:04:50 > 0:04:52So although Ireland has come a long way,
0:04:52 > 0:04:56the hold of the Catholic Church has been broken to some extent,
0:04:56 > 0:04:57I think the effects of that
0:04:57 > 0:05:01have yet to be felt, for women at any rate.
0:05:01 > 0:05:05For anybody who talks to people about these events,
0:05:05 > 0:05:10you realise how profound the change has been, how profound
0:05:10 > 0:05:12the questioning is of the kinds of assumptions there
0:05:12 > 0:05:15were in the generation before yours.
0:05:15 > 0:05:19I mean, the society is a much more mobile, open one than it's ever been
0:05:19 > 0:05:24before in modern times.
0:05:24 > 0:05:27Yes, and I tried with the book to show, and I think this is why
0:05:27 > 0:05:32I ended up with three different narrators and brought them together,
0:05:32 > 0:05:35just to show that the underlying theme that the Irish state's
0:05:35 > 0:05:38relationship with women's bodies has been...
0:05:38 > 0:05:43difficult, I suppose,
0:05:43 > 0:05:50historically, and still is, but things have changed.
0:05:50 > 0:05:53So back in the '50s, we had mother-baby homes, then we had this
0:05:53 > 0:05:55abortion referendum, and now we have Katie Taylor winning
0:05:55 > 0:05:58gold, but we still have to go to the next stage.
0:05:58 > 0:06:00This is no coincidence that one of the main characters
0:06:00 > 0:06:01is a gynaecologist.
0:06:01 > 0:06:02No coincidence, no!
0:06:02 > 0:06:05And her mother is a boxer.
0:06:05 > 0:06:07Obviously, there's a mystery involved in the story,
0:06:07 > 0:06:13a set of mysteries, but it's not a tease for the reader.
0:06:13 > 0:06:18I mean, it's really a story that's meant to have you thinking
0:06:18 > 0:06:20about their characters and their difficulties and how
0:06:20 > 0:06:22they cope with them, isn't it?
0:06:22 > 0:06:23That's really what drives you.
0:06:23 > 0:06:26Yeah, it's the characters, each of them at their own stage,
0:06:26 > 0:06:29trying to figure out where they are in their lives and what they want
0:06:29 > 0:06:32and who they are in a way, as they also gradually come
0:06:32 > 0:06:35to discover or the reader comes to discover who they are.
0:06:35 > 0:06:37Irish writing is in such a healthy state -
0:06:37 > 0:06:39there are young novelists, young poets, young storytellers
0:06:39 > 0:06:41in Ireland which is, you know, is a small country.
0:06:41 > 0:06:44The rich literary tradition really is still alive, isn't it?
0:06:44 > 0:06:53Very much so.
0:06:53 > 0:06:54Yeah.
0:06:54 > 0:06:56Are you conscious of that?
0:06:56 > 0:06:57I am conscious of it.
0:06:57 > 0:06:59There's a lot of support out there.
0:06:59 > 0:07:00Tax breaks and vibrant literary journals.
0:07:00 > 0:07:04I think literature is something we take seriously.
0:07:04 > 0:07:07I'm not too sure why, whether it's economic or whatever -
0:07:07 > 0:07:12it's pretty cheap to sit down and write!
0:07:12 > 0:07:15I think these tax breaks don't really cost the Government very
0:07:15 > 0:07:18much, but they do kind of foster a community.
0:07:18 > 0:07:22But when you say you don't know why, I think that if you talk to some
0:07:22 > 0:07:31of the sort of world-renowned Irish writers of today, they all say,
0:07:31 > 0:07:35look, you know, if you come from the small country that produced
0:07:35 > 0:07:43Joyce and Beckett and Flann O'Brien, then you really are always conscious
0:07:43 > 0:07:48that you have got kind of an obligation
0:07:48 > 0:07:49to these great figures that
0:07:49 > 0:07:56are standing on your shoulders.
0:07:56 > 0:07:59Yeah, they are quite intimidating and for a long time I think...
0:07:59 > 0:08:02I studied literature in college and that's probably why I found
0:08:02 > 0:08:04it so difficult to get started as a writer...
0:08:04 > 0:08:05Because you were aware of what's behind you!
0:08:06 > 0:08:07Exactly, yeah.
0:08:07 > 0:08:09Where do you think - this is your second novel,
0:08:09 > 0:08:11Generation was the first couple of years ago - where
0:08:11 > 0:08:14is your writing going to take you, do you think?
0:08:14 > 0:08:16Well, I know where it's taking me at the moment.
0:08:16 > 0:08:18I'm working on a third novel.
0:08:18 > 0:08:19What kind of theme has that got?
0:08:19 > 0:08:22The theme of trauma, if that doesn't sound too off-putting!
0:08:22 > 0:08:23Oh, it's not off-putting.
0:08:23 > 0:08:24Multiple trauma...
0:08:24 > 0:08:28You can't have a novel where nothing happens, nothing exciting.
0:08:28 > 0:08:31No, and I'm conscious of all of what might have become
0:08:31 > 0:08:35cliches of Irish writing.
0:08:35 > 0:08:39I don't want the child abuse story, I want multiple traumas that can be
0:08:39 > 0:08:41read that are palatable to the reader, so that's
0:08:41 > 0:08:42what I'm working on.
0:08:42 > 0:08:43And avoiding the Irish cliche.
0:08:43 > 0:08:44Trying hard!
0:08:44 > 0:08:46Paula McGrath, thank you very much indeed.
0:08:46 > 0:08:49Thank you.