:00:12. > :00:15.Hello, this is Monday in Parliament, our look at the day in Westminster.
:00:16. > :00:18.Should Whitehall's top staff have noticed
:00:19. > :00:23.One senior civil servant admits he did pause before the agreement
:00:24. > :00:36.I will be powerfully honest, I wasn't totally comfortable with it.
:00:37. > :00:38.I was never totally comfortable, it was an issue I found a close call
:00:39. > :00:39.and a difficult one. The pilot
:00:40. > :00:42.of a yellow card scheme for benefits sanctions is hailed by the SNP
:00:43. > :00:51.as a sign the system is failing Why is the Government waiting until
:00:52. > :00:54.next year to bring in this pilot scheme and in the meantime Willie
:00:55. > :00:56.please stop sanctioning people that are seriously ill?
:00:57. > :00:58.And should British long-term expats have a role
:00:59. > :01:03.One peer points out how their lives could change.
:01:04. > :01:10.Where they need to apply to become a citizen of the country they live
:01:11. > :01:13.in? Without even be possible? Will they pass any financial or a
:01:14. > :01:14.language requirements? What will happen to their health care
:01:15. > :01:15.arrangements? But first, two senior civil servants
:01:16. > :01:17.have told MPs the collapsed charity Kids
:01:18. > :01:19.Company got no special treatment. But giving evidence to the Public
:01:20. > :01:22.Accounts Committee, both admitted The former Cabinet Office Permanent
:01:23. > :01:26.Secretary, Richard Heaton, spoke of the decision to give
:01:27. > :01:30.Kids Company ?4 million in one go as The committee chair, Meg Hillier,
:01:31. > :01:37.began by referring to a report and setting out the job description
:01:38. > :01:49.of the two witnesses. They represent the top people
:01:50. > :01:51.of the Civil Service, their accounting officers are
:01:52. > :01:53.supposed to stand up to ministerial pressure and if necessary, require
:01:54. > :01:56.a letter of direction to locate the responsibility on Ministers
:01:57. > :01:58.when they override advice. In the case of Kids Company,
:01:59. > :02:01.as this report clearly shows, officials have been aware
:02:02. > :02:03.of the problems for 13 years, and Kids Company has been passed
:02:04. > :02:07.around Whitehall like a hot potato, Kids Company was a charity
:02:08. > :02:14.which Ministers and the Government collectively supported over many
:02:15. > :02:16.years. The Prime Minister said
:02:17. > :02:20.as much last week. The section 17 of the Charities Act,
:02:21. > :02:22.which was the power Ministers have defined
:02:23. > :02:27.charities, is a fairly broad one. It is entirely proper for Ministers
:02:28. > :02:31.to decide which charities in Our job as officials was to make
:02:32. > :02:35.sure that any support Ministers wished to give any charity,
:02:36. > :02:38.including Kids Company, was within managing public money and wants
:02:39. > :02:41.a decision was made, that it was properly implemented in a way that
:02:42. > :02:43.delivered value for the taxpayer. You gave, in a task
:02:44. > :02:46.of over two years, something like Which, if that was all they were
:02:47. > :02:53.delivering, was at a cost of They exceeded that, as
:02:54. > :03:04.the report says, by a factor of 25. Which obviously,
:03:05. > :03:07.as you have just said, might indeed be indicative of the fact that they
:03:08. > :03:10.were doing fantastic work. It might also be indicative
:03:11. > :03:14.of the fact that the actual criteria Richard Heaton was asked
:03:15. > :03:22.whether alarm bells had rung when Kids Company asked
:03:23. > :03:28.for ?4 million in one chunk. You didn't consider seeking
:03:29. > :03:30.a ministerial direction In the way that you
:03:31. > :03:33.did six weeks later. OK, I will be perfectly honest,
:03:34. > :03:36.I wasn't totally comfortable with it, no, I was never totally
:03:37. > :03:38.comfortable with it. It was an issue that I found a close
:03:39. > :03:41.call and quite a difficult one. But I thought we had sufficient
:03:42. > :03:44.evidence to suggest that this charity could be put
:03:45. > :03:46.on a sustainable footing, because of the indications and
:03:47. > :03:48.the capability they were building. It wasn't an open and shut case
:03:49. > :03:53.at all. And I did consider a direction,
:03:54. > :03:55.but I... And the second part of my question
:03:56. > :03:58.was, at that time, did you consider seeking a ministerial direction
:03:59. > :04:01.for that 4.5 million, in the way No, I considered it
:04:02. > :04:08.and discussed it with officials, my team that I chose, but I decided
:04:09. > :04:25.that I didn't require direction. But I did consider it. Within weeks
:04:26. > :04:30.of the 4.3 million, we were, I have to say, startled, shocked,
:04:31. > :04:33.surprised, for the charity to come to the Government and ask for more
:04:34. > :04:42.emergency funding. It was astonishing. The charity had
:04:43. > :04:45.apparently spent our money and was already requiring more emergency
:04:46. > :04:58.funding. White at any point did no one say, try it yourself first? Why
:04:59. > :04:59.on Earth is not be named ministerial direction all the way through? Your
:05:00. > :05:04.judgment and that of your judgment and that of your
:05:05. > :05:07.predecessors has been flawed. It seems there has never been a point
:05:08. > :05:10.at which you have said, we are not really making what we would like.
:05:11. > :05:17.While the work they were doing was very interesting. ?6,000 worth of
:05:18. > :05:22.the children who needed it would have revolutionised the world. For
:05:23. > :05:30.the period of, this organisation was competitive bids for schemes,
:05:31. > :05:36.fulfilling those schemes being monitored and appeared to be.
:05:37. > :05:42.Delivering that the outputs that we had set out in the bid. On the
:05:43. > :05:48.questions of ministerial directions, that did not arise because the
:05:49. > :05:55.Government was getting for its pounds what the charity had set out
:05:56. > :05:59.in its bid. Politicians will have lots of pressures on them to make
:06:00. > :06:02.decisions, good bad, you are responsible for watching
:06:03. > :06:05.taxpayers's of money so it has been instructed to hear what you have to
:06:06. > :06:10.say. Our report will be coming out shortly. It is important that the
:06:11. > :06:14.learning lessons you have highlighted frankly strike us as
:06:15. > :06:17.rather staggering, that these are things that were not asked some time
:06:18. > :06:18.before today, when everything has gone belly up.
:06:19. > :06:21.Now, doubts about the Government's controversial bill giving
:06:22. > :06:23.Housing Association tenants the right-to-buy have been voiced
:06:24. > :06:28.Labour MPs feared that too few homes-to-rent would be
:06:29. > :06:33.And several Tory MPs wanted guarantees that there'd be
:06:34. > :06:40.But the Government insisted it was a good deal.
:06:41. > :06:43.And the Minister read out an e-mail from one enthusiatic tenant.
:06:44. > :06:45.I'm absolutely eternally grateful to everyone in the
:06:46. > :06:49.Conservative Government that has helped push this forward.
:06:50. > :06:52.I absolutely cannot wait until the point, hopefully in 2016,
:06:53. > :06:56.where I can be holding the keys to the house that I own, a house that
:06:57. > :07:00.will be my savings for the future, a house that will allow me to pass
:07:01. > :07:05.Please, please, pass on my very heartfelt gratitude
:07:06. > :07:08.to everyone involved in ensuring that this was made a reality.
:07:09. > :07:16.Mr Speaker, these are the people, up and down the country,
:07:17. > :07:19.that this policy, agreed with the Housing Associations,
:07:20. > :07:25.As this lady made clear, it is giving the chance to fulfil a dream
:07:26. > :07:29.Can the Secretary of State explain how selling Housing Association
:07:30. > :07:33.properties, subsidising that sale by selling council properties, half of
:07:34. > :07:36.the stock, in the case of my local authority, reducing local authority
:07:37. > :07:40.incomes to build properties by reducing rent and allowing
:07:41. > :07:43.developers to get away without building any social homes, how does
:07:44. > :07:48.that help the thousands of people in housing need in my constituency?
:07:49. > :07:51.I will come on to address the points that the honourable gentleman makes.
:07:52. > :07:55.But I will say at this point, the reason that it helps is that we
:07:56. > :07:58.are requiring that there is a new home built for every home that
:07:59. > :08:05.And this will improve the housing stock in London.
:08:06. > :08:09.Given that the bill fails to include any legal commitment to replace
:08:10. > :08:13.social homes that are sold under right to buy on a one-to-one basis,
:08:14. > :08:16.will he accept that selling off valuable council homes to fund the
:08:17. > :08:19.expansion of right to buy means that we are losing two social homes to
:08:20. > :08:23.rent in return for just one social home to buy?
:08:24. > :08:27.The honourable lady will find that actually,
:08:28. > :08:32.the rate of additional stock that is being provided in response to
:08:33. > :08:38.the reinvigorated council right to buy is running at over one-to-one.
:08:39. > :08:41.The agreement that we have been able to reach with the Housing
:08:42. > :08:44.Associations makes it very clear, and if the honourable lady hasn't
:08:45. > :08:48.had a copy of that, I will make sure that she has a copy, that these
:08:49. > :08:52.homes will be replaced on at least a one-for-one basis. I shouldn't
:08:53. > :08:55.say replaced, because of course, the homes that continue to be
:08:56. > :09:01.occupied, they trigger an additional home that is being built.
:09:02. > :09:04.Like the cuts to tax credits, this bill is the Chancellor's work,
:09:05. > :09:08.with his political fingerprints all over it.
:09:09. > :09:12.It is a bill that makes the same mistakes as the tax credits.
:09:13. > :09:16.Divide and rule politics overriding good policy.
:09:17. > :09:21.And like tax credits, it faces a looming row on all fronts.
:09:22. > :09:24.Above all, it fails the same low and middle
:09:25. > :09:29.income working families that the Tories claim they will represent.
:09:30. > :09:33.It will lead to a huge loss of affordable homes to rent and buy,
:09:34. > :09:39.and be a huge let down for those who believed the Tory election pledges.
:09:40. > :09:44.It is a bill that will prove to be bad policy and bad politics.
:09:45. > :09:48.It will be a slow burn problem, all the way to 2020.
:09:49. > :09:53.And we will oppose it in the voting lobbies tonight.
:09:54. > :09:56.I want to amend this bill to guarantee that it works
:09:57. > :10:02.We should extend the right to buy, but at the same time, we must gain
:10:03. > :10:06.significant numbers of low-cost homes, and we know that is possible.
:10:07. > :10:10.So, the amendment that I will table after this debate today will ask for
:10:11. > :10:14.a binding guarantee that London will see a net gain in affordable housing
:10:15. > :10:21.A guarantee that in addition to the replaced Housing Association
:10:22. > :10:26.homes, London will see at least two low-cost homes built for every
:10:27. > :10:33.That is the intent of the amendment that I will table today.
:10:34. > :10:36.Along, I have to say, with the support of every single backbench
:10:37. > :10:42.Conservative colleague representing the London constituency.
:10:43. > :10:44.Conservative colleague representing a London constituency.
:10:45. > :10:47.And I strongly urge the Government to work with us to help us deliver
:10:48. > :10:51.Over recent years, there has been no like-for-like replacement
:10:52. > :10:54.of affordable homes sold, under the existing right to buy scheme.
:10:55. > :10:56.The Secretary of State couldn't dispute
:10:57. > :11:00.his own department's figures, which I put to him, in London since
:11:01. > :11:07.2012, only one in seven council homes sold have been replaced.
:11:08. > :11:12.So, how can anyone believe there will be any difference this time?
:11:13. > :11:15.There is nothing in the bill to guarantee money must
:11:16. > :11:22.be reinvested in the local area, replacing like-for-like sold homes.
:11:23. > :11:24.The Department for Work and Pensions has carried out
:11:25. > :11:27.around 60 investigations into suicides among people who had
:11:28. > :11:32.At Prime Minister's Questions last week, the SNP leader at
:11:33. > :11:37.Westminster, Angus Robertson, called for the reports to be published.
:11:38. > :11:40.His SNP colleagues have been keeping up the pressure.
:11:41. > :11:43.But the Work and Pensions Minister, Priti Patel, told them it would be
:11:44. > :11:57.We all in side concerned about the terrible damage the ideological cuts
:11:58. > :12:03.being made are doing to the most vulnerable in our society. The last
:12:04. > :12:07.two weeks, my right honourable friend has asked the Prime Minister
:12:08. > :12:10.about suicides following on from benefit reductions. Will the
:12:11. > :12:17.Minister publish the details of these investigations were flipped?
:12:18. > :12:20.-- forthwith. The department carries out reviews to identify whether any
:12:21. > :12:25.lessons can be mad but I should emphasise that the Information
:12:26. > :12:29.Commissioner has considered this issue and has upheld the decision
:12:30. > :12:31.not to publish these because of the level of personal information
:12:32. > :12:38.contained and for that reason it would be unlawful to release this
:12:39. > :12:42.information. Thank you, Mr Speaker. In 2014, the Scottish Association
:12:43. > :12:46.for mental health cost of an's leading mental health charity,
:12:47. > :12:50.published research which found that 90% of their service users said they
:12:51. > :12:54.mental health had deteriorated as a direct result of welfare reform.
:12:55. > :12:59.Further research this year by the same charity in the facility they
:13:00. > :13:05.run in my constituency confirmed that benefits sanctions mean -- are
:13:06. > :13:10.detrimental to the mental health service users there. What starts
:13:11. > :13:15.with Government take to address the adverse effects benefits sanctions
:13:16. > :13:19.on those with mental problems? Well, first of all, let me start by saying
:13:20. > :13:23.that sanctions play an important part in the labour market and
:13:24. > :13:26.encourage people and support them to go back to work and specifically
:13:27. > :13:32.with regards to support for claimants with mental health
:13:33. > :13:35.conditions, our staff are trained to support individuals with conditions
:13:36. > :13:39.during their job search and they also have access to more expert
:13:40. > :13:43.advice should it be needed. People with mental health problems do have
:13:44. > :13:47.particular barriers to get them back into the labour market and into
:13:48. > :13:52.productive work. With the Minister agree that the Government should be
:13:53. > :13:57.taking all steps to ensure that people with mental health problems
:13:58. > :13:59.are not sanctions unnecessarily and they should be showed flexibility
:14:00. > :14:00.around making sure they get back into the jobs market?
:14:01. > :14:03.A few weeks ago, the Department for Work and Pensions
:14:04. > :14:05.announced that it would be trialling a warning system
:14:06. > :14:08.to alert claimants to possible sanctions.
:14:09. > :14:15.Before the Government is able to report to the House on the impact
:14:16. > :14:18.of a good warning system to people that there may be sanctions coming
:14:19. > :14:20.down the road, they will need to begin the trials.
:14:21. > :14:23.Is there any chance of the Minister today telling us
:14:24. > :14:25.when the trials will begin and when they will be completed?
:14:26. > :14:27.Well, I thank the Chair of the Select
:14:28. > :14:31.Committee and I can tell him we are working out the details now and I'll
:14:32. > :14:34.be very happy to discuss further details as to when we'll be rolling
:14:35. > :14:44.The so-called yellow card pilot scheme is actually an admission
:14:45. > :14:47.by the Government that the sanctions regime isn't working
:14:48. > :14:49.at the present time and is particularly badly failing people
:14:50. > :14:54.Why is the Government waiting until next year to bring in this pilot
:14:55. > :14:57.scheme and in the meantime will they please just stop sanctioning people
:14:58. > :15:03.What I'd say to the honourable lady is that I would
:15:04. > :15:08.respectfully disagree with her on the point she is making.
:15:09. > :15:11.Claimants are only asked to meet reasonable requirements taking
:15:12. > :15:16.into account their circumstances and I think, as she will find with the
:15:17. > :15:20.pilots as they get under way, that this is about how we can integrate
:15:21. > :15:23.support for claimants and, importantly, provide them with
:15:24. > :15:27.the support and guidance to help them get back to work.
:15:28. > :15:29.There is no evidence to suggest mental health claimants are being
:15:30. > :15:35.We provide the support through our job centres
:15:36. > :15:42.and our claimants are only asked to meet reasonable requirements.
:15:43. > :15:47.Mr Speaker, the Minister may have inadvertently slipped up there.
:15:48. > :15:53.There is clear evidence from last year that 58% of people with mental
:15:54. > :15:55.health conditions on employment support allowance work-related
:15:56. > :16:08.Obviously that is over half and that's equivalent to 105,000
:16:09. > :16:11.people, 83% in a Mind survey, saying their health condition was
:16:12. > :16:15.The Minister replied that the sanction system was kept under
:16:16. > :16:18.constant review, but it plays an important part in the labour market.
:16:19. > :16:20.You're watching Monday in Parliament on BBC Parliament.
:16:21. > :16:24.Top civil servants have admitted there are lessons to be learned from
:16:25. > :16:26.the collapse of the charity Kids Company, but insists the charity was
:16:27. > :16:35.Still to come, questions about the human rights record
:16:36. > :16:38.as Egypt's president meets with a dry response in the House of Lords.
:16:39. > :16:41.We are rushing around trying to sell arms to one of
:16:42. > :16:43.the most barbarous regimes, to Saudi Arabia, one of the most barbarous
:16:44. > :16:54.Wouldn't it be discriminatory to even think of excluding...
:16:55. > :17:02.President Sisi from these human rights abusers?
:17:03. > :17:04.But first, should all British citizens living across the
:17:05. > :17:11.European Union be given a vote in EU's upcoming EU in-out referendum?
:17:12. > :17:13.That demand was rejected by the Government as the House
:17:14. > :17:16.of Lords debated the EU Referendum Bill, which sets out
:17:17. > :17:23.The idea was put forward by the Liberal Democrat Lady Miller.
:17:24. > :17:25.These British expats in the EU will be facing
:17:26. > :17:30.a giant step into the unknown should the vote be to exit the EU.
:17:31. > :17:35.Will they need to apply to become citizens
:17:36. > :17:42.Would they pass any financial or language requirements?
:17:43. > :17:45.What would happen to their healthcare arrangements?
:17:46. > :17:48.How quickly would reciprocal arrangements cease?
:17:49. > :17:53.These have all been raised with me by very worried people.
:17:54. > :17:56.We have been encouraging our firms and our citizens to take
:17:57. > :17:59.full advantage of the economic opportunities that are offered
:18:00. > :18:02.by the European Union and that involves, for many people, working
:18:03. > :18:11.We do not know where these people are, in which countries, or indeed,
:18:12. > :18:18.We don't know where they live, we're going to have difficulties
:18:19. > :18:20.contacting them and I'm just nervous that if we make
:18:21. > :18:25.a commitment that we cannot meet, it will end up in a mess.
:18:26. > :18:30.The best criteria is to have the Westminster franchise.
:18:31. > :18:34.Of course I'm entirely sympathetic to much that lies behind this
:18:35. > :18:38.amendment, having regard to the Government's commitment in respect
:18:39. > :18:42.of votes for life, but I should finally point out that many British
:18:43. > :18:45.citizens living in the EU and elsewhere in the world will be
:18:46. > :18:49.able to vote in this referendum as long as they have not been living
:18:50. > :18:57.The parliamentary franchise already allows them to vote.
:18:58. > :18:59.So whilst sympathetic to this amendment,
:19:00. > :19:05.I do not believe this is the time or place to make those changes.
:19:06. > :19:08.Lady Miller withdrew her amendment on the EU Referendum Bill,
:19:09. > :19:13.but peers are expected to return to the subject at later stages.
:19:14. > :19:16.Now, concerns have been raised about Egypt's human rights record ahead of
:19:17. > :19:22.The Government has defended its decision, describing Egypt
:19:23. > :19:29.The human rights campaigner Labour's Baroness Kennedy of the Shaws
:19:30. > :19:35.explained why she felt the visit to Downing Street was inappropriate.
:19:36. > :19:38.Is the Minister aware that Sisi has been responsible for the murder of
:19:39. > :19:49.He has used torture and rape on dissidents, imprisoned tens
:19:50. > :19:51.of thousands of political opponents, including elected MPs.
:19:52. > :19:54.He has denied medical aid to people in prison, he's been responsible for
:19:55. > :19:57.In fact, Egypt is becoming an incubator for
:19:58. > :20:04.He's employed extrajudicial killing and has held trials, because he's
:20:05. > :20:08.corrupted the judiciary, held trials where the death penalty has been
:20:09. > :20:13.passed on people after very swift trials on very little evidence,
:20:14. > :20:15.including on a young woman who is a student at
:20:16. > :20:23.She's there studying for a Masters degree and now is forced into exile.
:20:24. > :20:25.Is this a man who should be invited to Downing Street?
:20:26. > :20:29.And are we going to confront him with his tyranny?
:20:30. > :20:32.My Lords, the noble Baroness mentioned a number of different
:20:33. > :20:39.It is in Britain's interests to work with President Sisi.
:20:40. > :20:42.Together we need to combat terrorism,
:20:43. > :20:46.we need to counter extremism and help bring stability to Libya.
:20:47. > :20:51.We also need to talk candidly about Egypt's long-term future.
:20:52. > :20:53.Reform that revitalises the economy and political progress
:20:54. > :20:58.that is the foundation of the long-term stability.
:20:59. > :21:04.My Lords, we've lavished hospitality recently on the President of China,
:21:05. > :21:09.where there is gross abuse of human rights, as we heard earlier in an
:21:10. > :21:14.answer to an earlier question, and where the ruling clique presume to
:21:15. > :21:20.tell people how many children they can and cannot have.
:21:21. > :21:28.Shortly, we'll be lavishing similar hospitality to Narendra Modi,
:21:29. > :21:31.who until recently was excluded from this country and the United
:21:32. > :21:39.States for possible genocide against the Muslim community in India.
:21:40. > :21:43.We are rushing around trying to sell arms to one of
:21:44. > :21:46.the most barbarous regimes, Saudi Arabia, one of the most barbarous
:21:47. > :21:54.Wouldn't it be discriminatory to even think of excluding
:21:55. > :22:02.President Sisi from these human rights abusers?
:22:03. > :22:04.We want to see more progress in Egypt.
:22:05. > :22:09.Better protection of Egyptians' constitutional rights,
:22:10. > :22:11.freedom of expression, more space for NGOs and civil society.
:22:12. > :22:18.Our relationship with Egypt lets us raise these issues.
:22:19. > :22:21.Ministers and officials regularly do so and the President's forthcoming
:22:22. > :22:27.visit is a further opportunity to raise issues of concern.
:22:28. > :22:30.Would the Minister please confirm that the UK will unequivocally raise
:22:31. > :22:32.concerns about the flagrant and wide-ranging abuses of human rights
:22:33. > :22:40.And can the Minister confirm also that there
:22:41. > :22:44.will be absolutely no negotiation or agreement on the transfer
:22:45. > :22:50.of any arms or equipment that could be used for internal repression?
:22:51. > :22:53.My Lords, as I said before, we will raise these issues with
:22:54. > :23:04.As far as the arms situation is concerned, as the noble Baroness is
:23:05. > :23:11.aware, this is a highly regulated regime and we try to ensure that
:23:12. > :23:16.Egypt remains subject to the EU Foreign Affairs Council over this
:23:17. > :23:21.This suspension means licenses are suspended
:23:22. > :23:27.if we judge that they might be used in internal repression.
:23:28. > :23:30.We assess all applications for Egypt against the FAC threshold
:23:31. > :23:36.My Lords, is it not always the prime duty of the British Government
:23:37. > :23:42.of whatever party to protect the interests of the United Kingdom?
:23:43. > :23:45.That means, very often, talking to people and welcoming
:23:46. > :23:51.people whose internal policies we may not wholly approve of?
:23:52. > :23:55.The noble Lord has just mentioned one or two.
:23:56. > :24:00.The President should be made welcome, but it should also be
:24:01. > :24:03.in no doubt that there are concerns in this country about certain
:24:04. > :24:13.Egypt, yes, is on the front line in the war against Isil
:24:14. > :24:18.It is the biggest country in the Arab world.
:24:19. > :24:21.The biggest destination for British tourists with almost one million
:24:22. > :24:27.It is also hosting people displaced by crises in neighbouring countries.
:24:28. > :24:29.And finally, at the start of the day, Labour's
:24:30. > :24:32.Chief Whip, Rosie Winterton, launched the process for the
:24:33. > :24:35.Oldham West and Royton by-election following the death last month of
:24:36. > :24:43.Michael Meacher, who was a Labour MP for 45 years and a former Minister.
:24:44. > :24:51.I beg to move Mr Speaker to issue his warrant to the clerk of the
:24:52. > :24:54.Crown to make out a new writ for the electing of a Member to serve
:24:55. > :24:57.in this present Parliament for the borough constituency of Oldham West
:24:58. > :24:59.and Royton in the room of the Right Honourable Michael Hugh
:25:00. > :25:13.The question is that I do issue my warrant to the clerk of the Crown
:25:14. > :25:17.to make out a new writ for the electing of the member to serve
:25:18. > :25:19.in the present Parliament for the borough constituency of Oldham West
:25:20. > :25:21.and Royton in the room of the Right Honourable Michael Hugh
:25:22. > :25:27.As many as are of the opinion say aye.
:25:28. > :25:36.It will be the first by-election of this Parliament and it will be
:25:37. > :25:42.Georgina Pattinson is here for the rest of the week.