05/12/2016

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:00:20. > :00:21.Hello and welcome to Monday in Parliament.

:00:22. > :00:27.Despair over the poor quality of rail services

:00:28. > :00:45.Jobs are being lost. This situation is intolerable.

:00:46. > :00:47.Labour rejects Government plans to give social workers new ways

:00:48. > :00:58.Nobody in the profession believes that privatisation is the answer.

:00:59. > :01:00.And the Lords wrestle with a longstanding problem -

:01:01. > :01:10.The only acceptable method of reducing the size of a House of

:01:11. > :01:12.parliament is democracy. MPs have been venting

:01:13. > :01:18.the frustration felt by passengers Management and employees

:01:19. > :01:24.from Southern Rail are battling over the introduction of what's called

:01:25. > :01:28."driver only operation". The unions - Aslef and the RMT -

:01:29. > :01:31.say conductors are needed as well as drivers to ensure

:01:32. > :01:36.the safety of passengers. But managers say drivers can take

:01:37. > :01:40.sole responsibility for safety. The dispute has been

:01:41. > :01:42.going on for months and further The Transport Minister,

:01:43. > :01:47.Paul Maynard, was called to the Commons to make

:01:48. > :01:50.an urgent statement. His anger with the

:01:51. > :01:55.unions was evident. This strike action is

:01:56. > :01:59.politically motivated. It has affected passsengers

:02:00. > :02:04.for far too long. Union leaders have even described

:02:05. > :02:06.this action as carrying on This will be of no comfort

:02:07. > :02:11.to passengers who just want I will continue to ensure

:02:12. > :02:20.that the management of the train operating company is doing

:02:21. > :02:28.everything in its power to run improved services but we also need

:02:29. > :02:31.union leaders to stop the needless, unreasonable, disproportionate

:02:32. > :02:35.and politically motivated strikes. Thank you, Mr Speaker,

:02:36. > :02:37.and I thank the I put this question

:02:38. > :02:42.today with cross-party support from members right

:02:43. > :02:45.across the House because on Friday we heard that Southern Rail services

:02:46. > :02:47.will be severely disrupted every day

:02:48. > :03:02.from tomorrow until further notice. The Green MP Caroline Lucas,

:03:03. > :03:04.whose constituency is in Brighton on the south coast, is a regular

:03:05. > :03:07.passenger on Southern Rail. She had initiated

:03:08. > :03:08.the urgent statement. She said there were problems

:03:09. > :03:11.with Southern Rail well before 18 months on my constituents

:03:12. > :03:25.are regularly in tears This situation is intolerable

:03:26. > :03:31.and the Government can't simply wash its hands

:03:32. > :03:33.of involvement so will the Minister roll up

:03:34. > :03:34.his sleeves and get stuck

:03:35. > :03:39.in to resolve the crisis? The best thing she can do on behalf

:03:40. > :03:42.of her constituents is to go and speak to her close friends

:03:43. > :03:46.in the RMT and tell them to call off their disproportionate

:03:47. > :03:49.and unreasonable industrial action. That is the best

:03:50. > :03:51.contribution she can That we are still having

:03:52. > :03:58.to address the abysmal service Rail after a year and

:03:59. > :04:01.a half of substandard both Southern's incompetence and

:04:02. > :04:08.the extent to which this Government is committed to privatise rail even

:04:09. > :04:12.when franchises have become so deeply dysfunctional

:04:13. > :04:14.that they are unable to provide GTR should have been

:04:15. > :04:21.stripped of their franchise to plan properly to

:04:22. > :04:24.take on the franchise, And providing what is by far

:04:25. > :04:29.the country's worst rail Honourable members whose

:04:30. > :04:35.constituents rely on Southern will be well aware of stories of

:04:36. > :04:38.passengers fainting on overcrowded Jobs being jeopardised by repeated

:04:39. > :04:44.lateness and parents having to say goodnight to their children

:04:45. > :04:52.from a delayed train. That is not the case for some

:04:53. > :04:54.of my constituents who have been sacked because

:04:55. > :04:58.they have been late. Has not the balance of rights

:04:59. > :05:00.and responsibilities in our society got somewhat

:05:01. > :05:03.astray when in order to improve their terms

:05:04. > :05:10.and conditions they are costing other

:05:11. > :05:13.citizens their jobs? My honourable friend

:05:14. > :05:15.is right to point out the grossly disproportionate nature

:05:16. > :05:20.of this industrial action. He is right to point

:05:21. > :05:33.out commuters along the GTR network are

:05:34. > :05:35.experiencing a poorer quality of life because of

:05:36. > :05:36.this Coincidentally I delivered

:05:37. > :05:42.a petition to number Ten Downing St this morning calling

:05:43. > :05:43.for Southern to be sacked. Will the Minister acknowledge

:05:44. > :05:46.that it is not just the unacceptable and pointless union

:05:47. > :05:48.action that is causing chaos on the network but also repeated Network

:05:49. > :05:51.Rail equipment failure, repeated train failures which are Southern's

:05:52. > :05:53.fault, a shortage of drivers When will the Minister

:05:54. > :05:57.step in and take control away from the failing

:05:58. > :06:04.company, pass responsibility for Transport for London,

:06:05. > :06:08.which we Liberal Democrats called for as far back as 1999,

:06:09. > :06:10.and ensure that passengers are provided with much more

:06:11. > :06:12.generous compensation? His analysis of the multiple

:06:13. > :06:15.causes is correct but what I don't think he fully appreciates

:06:16. > :06:19.is that the need to focus on Network Rail as the source

:06:20. > :06:24.of many of the delays means that we have to have

:06:25. > :06:27.rapid and ready access to the We cannot do that against

:06:28. > :06:30.a backdrop of continual He Transport Minister, Paul Maynard,

:06:31. > :06:40.grappling with some knotty The Conservative former

:06:41. > :06:44.Children's Minister Tim Loughton has criticised a Government measure

:06:45. > :06:46.designed to improve the care The Children and Social Work Bill

:06:47. > :06:53.allows local councils to opt out of standard care regulations

:06:54. > :06:55.and develop new approaches The House of Lords has

:06:56. > :07:00.rejected the provision. But when the Bill had its first

:07:01. > :07:03.airing in the Commons, an Education Minister said

:07:04. > :07:04.the Government would Clause 29 as it was would have

:07:05. > :07:10.allowed local authorities to request exemptions from the statutory duties

:07:11. > :07:14.in children's social care. The first time in the

:07:15. > :07:18.history of children's welfare that legislation

:07:19. > :07:21.made for all vulnerable particular area. This is a very

:07:22. > :07:26.radical proposal that should at least have warranted a Green paper

:07:27. > :07:29.and a White Paper and proper consultation, but there

:07:30. > :07:34.was absolutely none. So not surprising that

:07:35. > :07:39.the NSPCC and Action For Children describe this as, the case

:07:40. > :07:42.that the Government is making ministers and officials the evidence

:07:43. > :07:48.for the need for this power remains unconvincing and does not justify

:07:49. > :07:51.the potential risks of suspending The direct response

:07:52. > :08:04.to issues raised by Professor Eileen Munro

:08:05. > :08:06.and her independent review of child She says that trusting professionals

:08:07. > :08:15.to use their judgment rather than be forced to follow

:08:16. > :08:18.unnecessary legal rules will help ensure children get the help

:08:19. > :08:22.they need when they need it. It is about giving councils

:08:23. > :08:29.the opportunity to develop new ways of working that

:08:30. > :08:31.they believe will improve outcomes I will give way to my

:08:32. > :08:34.honourable friend. If he says it is not

:08:35. > :08:37.about taking away rights from children, one of the scenarios would

:08:38. > :08:39.be the abolition of Independent Reviewing Officers who absolutely

:08:40. > :08:42.can be the only voice independently standing up for vulnerable

:08:43. > :08:43.looked-after children If they go under these

:08:44. > :08:47.proposals how is that not taking away

:08:48. > :08:49.the rights of children, vulnerable children

:08:50. > :08:50.in This isn't about

:08:51. > :08:53.abolishing any statutory I would suggest to my

:08:54. > :08:58.honourable friend that he should wait to see what amendments

:08:59. > :09:02.are going to be tabled during the And I should think my honourable

:09:03. > :09:06.friend will want to talk to the Children's Minister in more

:09:07. > :09:08.detail about his concerns. I know that he will take

:09:09. > :09:10.my honourable friend's In the other place,

:09:11. > :09:16.the Government plans for the outsourcing

:09:17. > :09:18.and privatisation of children's services

:09:19. > :09:20.dressed up as innovation were Nobody in the profession believes

:09:21. > :09:26.that privatisation is the answer to the immense challenges

:09:27. > :09:28.they are currently facing. Nor can they alleviate

:09:29. > :09:30.the growing demand honourable friend who does

:09:31. > :09:41.a very good job of putting Is she concerned that the Minister

:09:42. > :09:47.has not said much at all about what innovation he expects

:09:48. > :09:52.that would require a local authority effectively to wash their hands of

:09:53. > :09:55.their statutory duty in relation to And I just wanted to

:09:56. > :10:01.point out that in my conversations with Hull City Council

:10:02. > :10:06.Children's Services Department they talked to me about the resource

:10:07. > :10:09.inequalities that they face in the very disadvantaged community

:10:10. > :10:11.that they And they are certainly not asking

:10:12. > :10:15.for powers to innovate, they are asking for proper resources

:10:16. > :10:18.to provide the services that young To find better ways to care

:10:19. > :10:31.for vulnerable children that we I hope it might be

:10:32. > :10:37.possible to revisit the idea of this course which was

:10:38. > :10:40.supported by my own local authority It is right that this tightly

:10:41. > :10:49.regulated area is as protected as it is but I cannot

:10:50. > :10:52.believe that it would not benefit I ask the Minister to look

:10:53. > :11:01.at Scotland, to look at what we are We are not perfect, we are not doing

:11:02. > :11:07.everything right, but we have at the heart

:11:08. > :11:10.of our system children, their experiences,

:11:11. > :11:11.and we I please ask the Minister

:11:12. > :11:21.to look up north, and to Wales, who are also doing

:11:22. > :11:24.a really good work in the area of child protection and

:11:25. > :11:28.childcare across the board. Now, more than three million EU

:11:29. > :11:30.nationals will need documents to prove they are entitled to live

:11:31. > :11:33.and work in the UK once Britain That's according to the Home

:11:34. > :11:37.Secretary, Amber Rudd. But ministers would not be

:11:38. > :11:40.drawn on how much such Assuming that a deal is reached

:11:41. > :11:46.and that EU citizens that were here before a certain cut-off

:11:47. > :11:49.date can remain after we leave the European Union can

:11:50. > :11:52.the Home Secretary tell the House how the Home Office

:11:53. > :11:57.is going to document them, an estimated three million people,

:11:58. > :12:00.so that employers and landlords will know thereafter to whom legally

:12:01. > :12:02.they can offer a job or accommodation and therefore

:12:03. > :12:04.distinguish them from those EU The right honourable gentleman

:12:05. > :12:11.raises an important point. We are aware that there is a certain

:12:12. > :12:14.expectation and concern about As the Prime Minister has

:12:15. > :12:19.said, she hopes to be It is right that we do that

:12:20. > :12:25.while looking also at the over one million UK citizens in the rest

:12:26. > :12:27.of the European Union. There will be a need to have some

:12:28. > :12:30.sort of documentation. But we are not going

:12:31. > :12:34.to set a date yet. We are going to do it in a phased

:12:35. > :12:38.approach to ensure that you use all the technology advantages

:12:39. > :12:40.that we are increasingly able to harness to ensure

:12:41. > :12:42.that all immigration The Secretary of State has just

:12:43. > :12:51.confirmed that the three million new citizens in the UK will have

:12:52. > :12:55.to be documented. This processing adds roughly 10%

:12:56. > :12:57.to the Home Office workload. Does the Minister accept

:12:58. > :13:00.that this will cost at least ?100 million a year and require

:13:01. > :13:03.3,000 extra staff? Let me make clear that people

:13:04. > :13:13.who are here from elsewhere in the EU working legally do not

:13:14. > :13:16.need to receive additional We can assure them that

:13:17. > :13:19.the status is assured. What happens in the future

:13:20. > :13:21.is a matter for negotiation but certainly we have made clear

:13:22. > :13:24.that no additional documentation May I make the case to the Minister

:13:25. > :13:31.for updating of the systems and the use of computers

:13:32. > :13:43.and information technology With Brexit we need to count people

:13:44. > :13:50.in and out more effectively and for investment in our ports, like the

:13:51. > :13:56.port of Dover? Certainly exit checks that were introduced in 2015 has

:13:57. > :13:57.given us an additional tool to be to track people as they enter and in

:13:58. > :14:01.particular leave the country. New technology such as e-gates has

:14:02. > :14:03.helped in that regard. There was calls for foreign students

:14:04. > :14:12.to be excluded from the Government's ... Students should be removed from

:14:13. > :14:16.the tens of thousands targets. And does she also agree that the since

:14:17. > :14:19.the data is extremely poor, we should strain every sinew to try and

:14:20. > :14:28.get better quality data on the basis of which we can form a judgment

:14:29. > :14:32.about whether, and if so, how we can ensure that exports, which are what

:14:33. > :14:37.students are, are maximised in this country?

:14:38. > :14:40.THE SPEAKER: Absolutely hopelessly long. We've got to do a lot better

:14:41. > :14:46.than that. I share my honourable friend's view

:14:47. > :14:49.that students play an important role in contributing to the economy

:14:50. > :14:52.and are most welcome in the UK. The internationally recognised

:14:53. > :14:54.definition of a migrant is someone coming here for over 12 months,

:14:55. > :14:57.so they are likely to stay within that definition,

:14:58. > :14:59.although I am aware there THE SPEAKER: Chairman of

:15:00. > :15:05.the Home Affairs Select Committee, author of the textbook,

:15:06. > :15:07.Yvette Cooper. The Home Secretary there refers

:15:08. > :15:13.to the measure of net migration. Does she agree that international

:15:14. > :15:18.students should be taken out of the Government target

:15:19. > :15:22.as the Foreign Secretary has said over the weekend

:15:23. > :15:26.and as the Chancellor of the Exchequer seemed

:15:27. > :15:29.to hint some weeks ago? Does she think that foreign students

:15:30. > :15:33.should be included in the target? As I told the House the right

:15:34. > :15:36.honourable ladie is aware The definition that I referred

:15:37. > :15:43.to was for international students, which is held by the ONS,

:15:44. > :15:50.which is for 12 months they represent an immigrant and

:15:51. > :15:55.therefore are part of the numbers. You're watching Monday

:15:56. > :16:06.in Parliament, with me, The new MP for Richmond Park, the

:16:07. > :16:09.Liberal Democrat Sarah Ulney, has taken her seat in the House of

:16:10. > :16:13.Commons. She cause aid political upset by taking the seat from Zac

:16:14. > :16:18.Goldsmith, overturning a majority of 23,000. Mr Goldsmith triggered a

:16:19. > :16:21.by-election in the constituency, when he resigned from the

:16:22. > :16:26.Conservatives over the decision to go ahead with a third runway at

:16:27. > :16:29.Heathrow. As the Lib Dems also oppose Heathrow expansion, they

:16:30. > :16:35.turned the campaign into a verdict on Brexit. Mr Goldsmith voted for

:16:36. > :16:40.Brexit and Richmond Park is a strongly pro-remain area.

:16:41. > :16:45.Sarah Ulney was escorted into the Commons by the Lib Dem leader Tim

:16:46. > :16:47.farron. Her arrival was rather muted, perhaps because there are

:16:48. > :16:51.only eight fellow Liberal Democrats to provide the cheers.

:16:52. > :16:53.THE SPEAKER: Will the member wishing to take her seat, please come to the

:16:54. > :17:23.table. I swear by almighty God that I will

:17:24. > :17:27.be faithful and bear true aleaningence to Her Majesty Queen

:17:28. > :17:31.Elizabeth and her heirs and successors, so help me God. By

:17:32. > :17:32.signing the test roll she was welcomed bit Speaker with an

:17:33. > :17:37.extended hand shake. THE SPEAKER: Sarah, many

:17:38. > :17:55.congratulations. Bringing the tally of Lib Dems up to

:17:56. > :17:59.nine and providing the party with its only woman MP.

:18:00. > :18:03.Ministers are proposing to increase the maximum sentence for causing

:18:04. > :18:07.death by dangerous driving from 14 years to life impresidentenment,

:18:08. > :18:11.that would include crashes by a driver using a mobile phone at the

:18:12. > :18:16.wheel. Peers said a change of culture was needed, similar to the

:18:17. > :18:22.one achieved for drink driving. We all welcome the Prime Minister's

:18:23. > :18:29.commitment to make this dangerous and potentially devastating practice

:18:30. > :18:33.socially unacceptable. The increased penalties, the proposals that

:18:34. > :18:40.drivers who kill while using a mobile phone could face a life

:18:41. > :18:49.sentence should be a real deterrent to this growing and seemingly

:18:50. > :18:59.obsessive addiction. But previous increases in penalties... Thank you

:19:00. > :19:06.for that, I need to make this point. Previous increases in penalties have

:19:07. > :19:14.not had a lasting impact. Will the minister tell us what plans the

:19:15. > :19:17.Government has to ensure that an adequate performance enforcement of

:19:18. > :19:22.its new measures? The noble Lord makes an important point about

:19:23. > :19:25.enforcement. The Lords are only as good enough when they're -- laws are

:19:26. > :19:29.only good enough when they're enforced. We have seen a rising tide

:19:30. > :19:33.of use of mobile phones of drivers behind vehicles and that's through

:19:34. > :19:37.admitting it themselves through various reports. We'll be working

:19:38. > :19:41.very closely with both the Police and Crime Commissioners as well as

:19:42. > :19:45.the police forces tone sure much more effective enforcement.

:19:46. > :19:49.Increased sentences will, no doubt, help. As the noble Lord has

:19:50. > :19:56.recognised in the question, a change of culture is really what is

:19:57. > :19:59.required. I wonder whether his department has considered

:20:00. > :20:06.introducing, in addition to a penalty for mobile phone offenders,

:20:07. > :20:11.mandatory attendance at mobile phone awareness courses, paid for by the

:20:12. > :20:15.offenders rather than offering such courses as an optional alternative

:20:16. > :20:21.to points and a penalty as at present? The issue the noble refers

:20:22. > :20:24.to about courses has been practised and left to the discretion of the

:20:25. > :20:28.police to offer that. However it's the Government's view that this

:20:29. > :20:31.issue now needs to be scaled up. Therefore we're actually promoting

:20:32. > :20:35.that those discretionary courses are not offered but to raise awareness

:20:36. > :20:39.through campaigns such as Think and of course, increase awareness of the

:20:40. > :20:42.revised penalties that will be implicated if someone is caught

:20:43. > :20:47.using a mobile phone. Let's be clear, if you use your mobile phone,

:20:48. > :20:51.it's not hands free and you're using it and you're caught, it is a

:20:52. > :20:56.criminal offence. Given that motoring organisations seem to be

:20:57. > :21:00.dubious of the safety of using hands-free equipment in their motor

:21:01. > :21:07.cars, I wonder whether or not the Government has any plans to regulate

:21:08. > :21:09.car manufacturers' ability to produce this equipment, which is

:21:10. > :21:14.distracting I believe and can cause accidents? The Right Reverend raises

:21:15. > :21:18.an issue on the manufacture of motor cars. Certainly the Government isn't

:21:19. > :21:23.talking specifically on this issue. I mean, the issue of hands-free

:21:24. > :21:27.mobile phone use is difficult to regulate and indeed enforce. I would

:21:28. > :21:30.say to the Right Reverend that of course there are other distractions

:21:31. > :21:35.which are often available in the car, the use of loud music, indeed,

:21:36. > :21:38.being a father of three children, if I have all three of them in the back

:21:39. > :21:42.seat at the same time, that's equally quite a high distraction.

:21:43. > :21:48.But on a more serious point, we are looking to ensure that we inform the

:21:49. > :21:51.public and campaigns such as Think we take forward the importance of

:21:52. > :21:54.not using mobile phones when driving.

:21:55. > :21:58.Eights' stay with the Lord's. They spent most of the day debating about

:21:59. > :22:02.the size of the House of Lords. At the moment the number of peers is

:22:03. > :22:06.around 800. That makes the Lords one of the largest in the world. That

:22:07. > :22:12.eye catching fact and how to reduce the size of an unelected chamber has

:22:13. > :22:17.spawned numerous reports, debates and incremental changes, such as a

:22:18. > :22:24.retirement scheme. Lord Cormack said it was time to reduce the number of

:22:25. > :22:29.peers. Almost time your Lordship's House is commented on in the public

:22:30. > :22:35.press and in the media, two remarks are made again and again and again,

:22:36. > :22:39.that this is the largest second chamber in the world and that it's

:22:40. > :22:45.the largest legislative chamber of any sort in the world after the

:22:46. > :22:52.People's Republic of China. My Lord's, the constant reiteration of

:22:53. > :22:59.those facts, and unfortunately they are facts, they coup Latively drown

:23:00. > :23:05.the -- cumulatively drown the recognition of the scrutiny we apply

:23:06. > :23:10.to bills and quality of our debates. All of us will remember the first

:23:11. > :23:15.debate on the noble Lord Falconer's assisted dying bill. Whatever line

:23:16. > :23:20.one took on that bill, one had to be proud to be a member of this House.

:23:21. > :23:23.The very next day all the papers had leaders and long reports of the

:23:24. > :23:31.debates saying this was Parliament at its best. My Lord's, that is the

:23:32. > :23:37.image that we wish to present and not the image of an overbloated

:23:38. > :23:43.House with too many members in it. I think we can criticise how we got

:23:44. > :23:48.here. We know there was a surge of influx in terms of the liberal

:23:49. > :23:51.peers. We know that the former Prime Minister pushed every boundary in

:23:52. > :23:56.terms of appointments, but I don't want to, tempting though it is, to

:23:57. > :24:02.go into that. I do think a couple of points have to be made clear. If we

:24:03. > :24:08.are to take steps to reduce the size of this House, then we cannot have a

:24:09. > :24:11.Prime Minister from any Government using that as an excuse for stuffing

:24:12. > :24:18.his House with more of their appointments. Secondly, we must

:24:19. > :24:22.maintain the principle that no Government has a right to having a

:24:23. > :24:28.majority in this House. That would undermine the purpose of it. There

:24:29. > :24:31.have been many variations of musical chairs suggested by those who want

:24:32. > :24:36.to tinker with the problem. What they have in common is a denial of

:24:37. > :24:41.the first principle of Parliamentary democracy, that is for legislators

:24:42. > :24:49.to be as least predominantly elected. Those in this House, who

:24:50. > :24:56.continue to obstruct real democratic reform risk an increasing public

:24:57. > :25:01.demand for a unicamral Parliament, which I do not support. The only

:25:02. > :25:04.acceptable method for reducing the size of the House of Parliament in a

:25:05. > :25:09.Parliamentary democracy is democracy. An independent peer was

:25:10. > :25:15.also clear that the status quo was not an option. Realistically, there

:25:16. > :25:20.is, to my mind, only one answer to the central question which is raised

:25:21. > :25:27.by today's motion. Yes, swollen as this House now is, not least through

:25:28. > :25:31.a whole host of new appointments by Mr Cameron over recent years, we're

:25:32. > :25:37.plainly too large and we are widely mocked on that account. And to think

:25:38. > :25:43.otherwise, he said, was living in cloud-cuckoo-land. That's it from

:25:44. > :25:48.Monday in Parliament. From me, goodbye.