0:00:16 > 0:00:19Hello and welcome to Monday in Parliament, our look at
0:00:19 > 0:00:22the best of the day in the Commons and the Lords.
0:00:22 > 0:00:23On this programme:
0:00:23 > 0:00:26Hold the front page - the ex-Chancellor, George Osborne,
0:00:26 > 0:00:30takes a job as editor of the London Evening Standard.
0:00:30 > 0:00:34"How is that possible?" ask opposition MPs.
0:00:34 > 0:00:39How can a full-time politician be a full-time editor
0:00:39 > 0:00:42of a daily newspaper?
0:00:42 > 0:00:46This Parliament is enhanced when we have people of
0:00:46 > 0:00:50different experience taking part in our robust debate.
0:00:50 > 0:00:52Beware the exit fees -
0:00:52 > 0:00:54as Britain leaves the EU, is it fair for Brussels
0:00:54 > 0:00:58to send us a rather large bill?
0:00:58 > 0:01:02It might be worth tactfully - not one of my strongest points -
0:01:02 > 0:01:06but tactfully reminding people that there is a realistic position
0:01:06 > 0:01:13here, which is that we really do not owe anything to the European Union.
0:01:13 > 0:01:16And those large premiums facing young drivers
0:01:17 > 0:01:19because of their high accident rate.
0:01:19 > 0:01:23One MP thinks he has the solution to the problem.
0:01:23 > 0:01:27This is from 14 years old, that they put them in a car,
0:01:27 > 0:01:33with a highly qualified instructor, learn in an off-road environment.
0:01:33 > 0:01:35But first...
0:01:35 > 0:01:37Roll up, roll up, read all about it!
0:01:37 > 0:01:39George Osborne has often been on the front page
0:01:39 > 0:01:43of the Evening Standard, London's daily evening paper,
0:01:43 > 0:01:47making the news in his days as Chancellor of the Exchequer.
0:01:47 > 0:01:49That was then.
0:01:49 > 0:01:53Few people could have foreseen that Mr Osborne would one day be deciding
0:01:53 > 0:01:55what goes on the front page.
0:01:55 > 0:01:58But that's what he will be doing, now that Mr Osborne has been
0:01:58 > 0:02:00appointed Evening Standard editor at the same time as continuing
0:02:00 > 0:02:04as a Member of Parliament.
0:02:04 > 0:02:08So, is it appropriate for a former Chancellor to be a newspaper editor?
0:02:08 > 0:02:11In the Commons, a Labour frontbencher said there were rules
0:02:11 > 0:02:15in place to counter suspicions that a decision made by a minister
0:02:15 > 0:02:21might be influenced by a future job that he or she took up.
0:02:21 > 0:02:26Disregarding these rules deeply undermines public trust
0:02:26 > 0:02:29in the democratic process and the trust of the work
0:02:29 > 0:02:34of a Member of Parliament and in this House itself.
0:02:34 > 0:02:38It does a disservice to those members that respect
0:02:38 > 0:02:43the trust placed in them by their constituents,
0:02:43 > 0:02:46who spend every hour of their day fighting for their constituents'
0:02:46 > 0:02:52interests, and to ensure that proper attention to the representative
0:02:52 > 0:02:56role of an MP is given, as a vocation to public
0:02:56 > 0:03:00service should require.
0:03:00 > 0:03:04To hold one outside interest is perhaps defensible.
0:03:04 > 0:03:08But to hold several time-consuming outside commitments,
0:03:08 > 0:03:11that have a deep overlap with the political role
0:03:11 > 0:03:15of what is supposed to be a full-time commitment as a member
0:03:15 > 0:03:19of this House, is impossible to defend.
0:03:19 > 0:03:22Well, I thank the honourable gentleman, and I have to say,
0:03:22 > 0:03:24I can see why he took this excuse to drag himself away
0:03:25 > 0:03:27from the Shadow Cabinet away day.
0:03:27 > 0:03:29LAUGHTER
0:03:29 > 0:03:34Which I can imagine why...
0:03:34 > 0:03:38I know...
0:03:38 > 0:03:41I know he will be missing, I know he will be missing with every
0:03:41 > 0:03:44single cell in his body, and that is why I will give him
0:03:44 > 0:03:48a short answer, so he can return as quickly as possible.
0:03:48 > 0:03:50LAUGHTER
0:03:50 > 0:03:52As the honourable gentleman...
0:03:52 > 0:03:55As the honourable gentleman has rightly said, much has already been
0:03:55 > 0:03:59done in this important area.
0:03:59 > 0:04:02The Prime Minister revised the ministerial code
0:04:02 > 0:04:05when she took office.
0:04:05 > 0:04:08It is a matter of high concern to her, and that is why
0:04:08 > 0:04:12for the first time, the ministerial code appends to it the advice
0:04:12 > 0:04:16to ministers on leaving office about seeking the advice
0:04:16 > 0:04:21and assurances, or approbation, or indeed censure, of ACOBA,
0:04:21 > 0:04:26the independent advisory committee on business appointments.
0:04:26 > 0:04:27George Osborne.
0:04:27 > 0:04:32Well, Mr Speaker, when I heard that this urgent question had been
0:04:32 > 0:04:36granted, I thought it was important to be here, although unfortunately,
0:04:36 > 0:04:39we have missed the deadline for the Evening Standard.
0:04:39 > 0:04:42In my view...
0:04:42 > 0:04:47In my view, Mr Speaker, in my view, this Parliament is enhanced
0:04:47 > 0:04:51when we have people of different experience take part
0:04:51 > 0:04:54in our robust debate, and when people who have held senior
0:04:54 > 0:04:58ministerial office continued to contribute to the decisions
0:04:58 > 0:05:02we have to make, but I will listen to what my colleagues have
0:05:02 > 0:05:06to say in this debate, I am interested to hear.
0:05:06 > 0:05:10Minister.
0:05:10 > 0:05:13Well, Mr Speaker, on International Happiness Day,
0:05:13 > 0:05:15we can see some people who are pretty happy!
0:05:15 > 0:05:16But it...
0:05:16 > 0:05:17It...
0:05:17 > 0:05:18LAUGHTER AND HECKLING
0:05:18 > 0:05:20Order, order!
0:05:20 > 0:05:23But it does strike me that we've heard it all,
0:05:23 > 0:05:27when we get a minister standing up to give a response to a perfectly
0:05:27 > 0:05:31reasonable and sensible question and made a joke about it,
0:05:31 > 0:05:33and the honourable member for Tatton thinks it's
0:05:33 > 0:05:37a matter of mere amusement.
0:05:37 > 0:05:41Well, you cannot treat this House and the people as a load of gowks,
0:05:41 > 0:05:43as we would say in Scotland.
0:05:43 > 0:05:46This is a disgraceful shambles, and we need to know what this
0:05:46 > 0:05:49Government is going to do about it.
0:05:49 > 0:05:52Will the Minister please refer to the advisory committee
0:05:52 > 0:05:57the dilemma that exists when a former minister is given
0:05:57 > 0:05:59a particular appointment on the basis of his geographical
0:05:59 > 0:06:05location, but then subsequently secures a further appointment
0:06:05 > 0:06:09which flatly contradicts the interest that he was meant to
0:06:09 > 0:06:13serve for that previous appointment?
0:06:13 > 0:06:18Can the London Standard editor look after the Northern Powerhouse?
0:06:18 > 0:06:23What am I to say to my constituents who feel time and again that
0:06:23 > 0:06:26despite all the talk of the Northern Powerhouse,
0:06:26 > 0:06:29we give up on the North and we head down to London?
0:06:29 > 0:06:32Many people write books, own land, own property,
0:06:32 > 0:06:36should they therefore sell into monastic simplicity?
0:06:36 > 0:06:39Should they therefore sell everything into monastic simplicity
0:06:39 > 0:06:45and become a political class, or should they represent the economy
0:06:45 > 0:06:49and the people of this country by maintaining an intact body
0:06:49 > 0:06:53of effort with other people?
0:06:53 > 0:06:56Tomorrow, I have meetings in this place from 8:30 in the morning
0:06:56 > 0:06:59until 8:30 at night, including two Select Committees,
0:06:59 > 0:07:02and we have several ex-ministers chairing Select Committees,
0:07:03 > 0:07:05doing an excellent job.
0:07:05 > 0:07:07Isn't that where their expertise gained in ministerial
0:07:07 > 0:07:10office should be directed, to scrutinising the work
0:07:10 > 0:07:12of the Executive and doing a job here, not doing
0:07:12 > 0:07:15a job somewhere else?
0:07:15 > 0:07:17I am concerned that the right honourable member might be
0:07:17 > 0:07:19overstretching himself.
0:07:19 > 0:07:22And will ACOBA take account of the European Working Time
0:07:22 > 0:07:26regulations and ensure that he is not damaging his health
0:07:26 > 0:07:30by working excessive hours?
0:07:30 > 0:07:32Across this House, members of all parties work
0:07:32 > 0:07:35extremely hard, and especially when you have the ultimate
0:07:35 > 0:07:43second job as a minister, as a Secretary of State,
0:07:43 > 0:07:46as a Chancellor and of course, as a Prime Minister.
0:07:46 > 0:07:49Would my right honourable friend agree with me that anybody who does
0:07:49 > 0:07:51any other work in addition to their duties as a Member
0:07:51 > 0:07:56of Parliament actually brings a huge Amat of experience into this chamber
0:07:56 > 0:07:57of experience into this chamber
0:07:57 > 0:07:59that makes all of us actually represent everyone in this
0:07:59 > 0:08:03country even better?
0:08:03 > 0:08:10And would he also agree with me, of course the ultimate judge on this
0:08:10 > 0:08:12are our constituents, who at the ballot box can vote us
0:08:12 > 0:08:15out if they don't like what we do?
0:08:15 > 0:08:20The real question to be answered now, how can a full-time politician
0:08:20 > 0:08:26be a full-time editor of a daily newspaper?
0:08:26 > 0:08:28Minister.
0:08:28 > 0:08:31It is one of the many reasons why I admire the honourable gentleman.
0:08:31 > 0:08:34That he walked out of the pit, straight to this place,
0:08:34 > 0:08:37and gave an experience to the House of Commons, to our representative
0:08:37 > 0:08:41democracy, that few people on both benches would be able to provide.
0:08:41 > 0:08:44It is something of enormous value to this House of Commons.
0:08:44 > 0:08:47I am not in a position to make the judgment
0:08:47 > 0:08:49that he invites me to make.
0:08:49 > 0:08:53I would ask that the Independent Committee on Business Interests
0:08:53 > 0:08:56provide their independent report first, before we judge this
0:08:56 > 0:08:59particular incident, and that he contributes his thoughts
0:08:59 > 0:09:01to the wider considerations of the Committee on
0:09:01 > 0:09:03Standards in Public Life.
0:09:03 > 0:09:05I believe that there are strong arguments in his favour,
0:09:05 > 0:09:08there are also strong arguments on the other side and they should be
0:09:09 > 0:09:11discussed in the round.
0:09:11 > 0:09:14Rehabilitation will be put at the heart of the prisons system,
0:09:14 > 0:09:17the Justice Secretary has told MPs.
0:09:17 > 0:09:20She spoke as the Government's Prisons and Courts Bill
0:09:20 > 0:09:23had its first full debate in the Commons.
0:09:23 > 0:09:26Among other things, this will allow witnesses in rape trials
0:09:26 > 0:09:28to record their evidence.
0:09:28 > 0:09:31But the Justice Secretary was warned the prisons system
0:09:31 > 0:09:35in England was in crisis.
0:09:35 > 0:09:38For the first time, it will be clear that the Government isn't just
0:09:38 > 0:09:43responsible for housing prisoners, it will also declare that a key
0:09:43 > 0:09:47purpose of prisons is to reform prisoners and prepare them
0:09:47 > 0:09:53for their return to the community.
0:09:53 > 0:09:55This means getting prisoners off drugs, into work
0:09:55 > 0:09:57and improving their education whilst they are in prison.
0:09:57 > 0:10:00People want to be angry about prisoners and they say that
0:10:00 > 0:10:02it's all their own fault, but actually, a very large
0:10:02 > 0:10:06proportion of people in prison have suffered major brain traumas,
0:10:06 > 0:10:12through fights or various other different means, and actually,
0:10:12 > 0:10:15the support that is available in the wider community,
0:10:15 > 0:10:18through the Health Service, can fully rehabilitate them
0:10:18 > 0:10:20and bring them back into society,
0:10:20 > 0:10:23but the support in prison is still very weak.
0:10:23 > 0:10:26Will the Government be doing more to tackle that?
0:10:26 > 0:10:28May I say how much I welcome this legislation?
0:10:28 > 0:10:31It seems to me to be going in exactly the right direction
0:10:31 > 0:10:34in terms of reforming prisons.
0:10:34 > 0:10:37But she will also be aware that ultimately,
0:10:37 > 0:10:39the ability to deliver these programmes is going to be
0:10:39 > 0:10:43intimately dependent on reducing prison overcrowding,
0:10:43 > 0:10:47because without it, we've seen on many previous occasions that
0:10:47 > 0:10:51however good the programmes, they founder as the prisons
0:10:51 > 0:10:59come under strain.
0:10:59 > 0:11:01The bill contains proposals to hold virtual court hearings.
0:11:01 > 0:11:03But a Labour MP warned this wouldn't work everywhere.
0:11:03 > 0:11:05All these plans for online communication are wonderful.
0:11:05 > 0:11:10If only you have the ability to get quality broadband.
0:11:10 > 0:11:14So, in parts of my constituency, communities are getting broadband
0:11:14 > 0:11:19as low as 25% of capability, so how on earth are people
0:11:19 > 0:11:23going to be able to access justice when they cannot possibly
0:11:23 > 0:11:28do anything online because of appalling broadband?
0:11:28 > 0:11:29Secretary of State.
0:11:29 > 0:11:32Well, we are doing a lot to improve broadband across the country.
0:11:32 > 0:11:37The online system is not mandatory, the paper process will be available.
0:11:37 > 0:11:40It has been the Secretary of State's misfortune to inherit a brief
0:11:40 > 0:11:45dominated from day one by the crisis in our prisons.
0:11:45 > 0:11:48It is not a crisis of the current Secretary of State's making,
0:11:48 > 0:11:51but is one, I would say, created by
0:11:51 > 0:11:55the Conservative Government's cuts agenda.
0:11:55 > 0:11:58So, the statistics are often slanted in this place,
0:11:58 > 0:12:01but they are worth repeating.
0:12:01 > 0:12:04Overcrowding in 68% of our prisons.
0:12:04 > 0:12:06Approximately 77,000 prison places,
0:12:06 > 0:12:10but more than 84,000 people in our prisons.
0:12:10 > 0:12:13And in the 12 months to September 2016,
0:12:13 > 0:12:21over 25,000 prisoner assault incidents within prisons.
0:12:21 > 0:12:24You're watching our round-up of the day in the Commons and the Lords.
0:12:24 > 0:12:26Still to come...
0:12:26 > 0:12:28Does the reality of Brexit mean there'll be no time
0:12:28 > 0:12:35for Parliament to do much else?
0:12:35 > 0:12:40An SNP MP has said allowing young people to drive vehicles on
0:12:40 > 0:12:43private land well before they're 17 could be a way to bring down
0:12:43 > 0:12:45the accident rate of young drivers.
0:12:45 > 0:12:48Calum Kerr was contributing to a Westminster Hall debate
0:12:48 > 0:12:53on the high costs of car insurance for young drivers.
0:12:53 > 0:12:55He believed, in his words, de-mystifying the business of
0:12:55 > 0:13:01car driving for someone reaching 17 made them a better driver.
0:13:01 > 0:13:08He spoke about an event he went to in his constituency.
0:13:08 > 0:13:11I went along on a Saturday and found this phenomenal set up
0:13:11 > 0:13:17where the police, working with local car dealerships,
0:13:17 > 0:13:21the Institute of Advanced Motoring, were taking young drivers
0:13:21 > 0:13:32from the age of 14.
0:13:40 > 0:13:42How do we stop young people getting in the car,
0:13:42 > 0:13:46thinking, as I did, I could drive, and then putting them
0:13:46 > 0:13:49and others at risk?
0:13:49 > 0:13:52One of the ways is to try and demystify it to some extent.
0:13:52 > 0:13:55And by starting people younger.
0:13:55 > 0:13:59So this was from 14 years old, that they put them in a car
0:13:59 > 0:14:00with a highly qualified instructor
0:14:00 > 0:14:01and learned in an off-road environment.
0:14:01 > 0:14:05This was on private land.
0:14:05 > 0:14:10And they had a day's course.
0:14:10 > 0:14:12Several MPs said high premiums were unfairly
0:14:12 > 0:14:17restricting young people.
0:14:17 > 0:14:19Many people would not be able to take up opportunities
0:14:19 > 0:14:20of apprenticeships.
0:14:20 > 0:14:23Many people would not be of the take up opportunities of working
0:14:23 > 0:14:26on something they wish to work on because if they were going to be
0:14:26 > 0:14:29a carer, I think somebody mentioned, in a rural environment,
0:14:29 > 0:14:32these are things that would not be open with the premium being so high
0:14:32 > 0:14:33for those young people.
0:14:33 > 0:14:37For our young people to go out to work and to earn money to get
0:14:37 > 0:14:40that step on the ladder it is hugely important and it means that they can
0:14:40 > 0:14:44be held back and they will not climb that ladder and I think again
0:14:44 > 0:14:45that is hugely important.
0:14:45 > 0:14:48The way to address this issue in the long term is dealing
0:14:48 > 0:14:51with the cause which is that far too many of our young people who go out
0:14:51 > 0:14:54and drive at a young age having just passed their test have accidents,
0:14:54 > 0:14:57and sadly too many of them die or have lifelong
0:14:57 > 0:14:58injuries as a result.
0:14:58 > 0:15:00That is what drives me to want to improve this,
0:15:00 > 0:15:02is making our roads safer for young drivers.
0:15:02 > 0:15:06And the consequence, the result of that, would be
0:15:06 > 0:15:09to drive down premiums, but I am just as focused on saving
0:15:09 > 0:15:13lives as I am about saving money.
0:15:13 > 0:15:15The main logic of his argument which is that insurance costs
0:15:15 > 0:15:18are related to the experience of the driver, but also
0:15:18 > 0:15:21to the age of the driver.
0:15:21 > 0:15:29Would he agree that we have been moving a lot of ages
0:15:29 > 0:15:33of responsibility such as buying cigarettes etc,
0:15:33 > 0:15:36would he agree with increasing the age from 17 to 18 before you can
0:15:36 > 0:15:37get a full licence?
0:15:37 > 0:15:38Thank you for the intervention.
0:15:38 > 0:15:40I personally am not of that view.
0:15:40 > 0:15:42If you look across the world other countries actually allow young
0:15:42 > 0:15:45people to learn to drive at much younger ages.
0:15:45 > 0:15:47And I certainly wouldn't be looking to reduce the age.
0:15:47 > 0:15:52But what I would be saying is that we need to give our young
0:15:52 > 0:15:55people, our 17 and 18-year-olds, more tuition and better experience
0:15:55 > 0:15:57so that they become more capable drivers much quicker
0:15:57 > 0:16:02than is current.
0:16:02 > 0:16:05May I declare an interest as a 25-year-old driver who has just
0:16:05 > 0:16:06renewed his car insurance?
0:16:06 > 0:16:07It wasn't as bad as I thought.
0:16:07 > 0:16:10That is good to report.
0:16:10 > 0:16:13The use of black boxes to measure one's driving ability
0:16:13 > 0:16:19is so important and one of my members of staff,
0:16:19 > 0:16:23her son has just passed his driving test and has a black box in his car.
0:16:23 > 0:16:33And he refuses to let his mum use the car because...
0:16:34 > 0:16:37Because she puts the bad driving statistics up on his car.
0:16:37 > 0:16:43So it is important to say that not all bad drivers are young drivers.
0:16:43 > 0:16:50A future which not only has those driver assistance mechanisms
0:16:50 > 0:16:56but also where the ability to be in a car and travel from A to B may
0:16:56 > 0:17:01not actually even be dependent on having a driving licence
0:17:01 > 0:17:04in the form that we would know it, that the car itself,
0:17:04 > 0:17:07the vehicle itself, could be doing the driving, for some
0:17:07 > 0:17:10of the journey.
0:17:10 > 0:17:15Huge potential there to improve safety.
0:17:15 > 0:17:18But again it's really important that the insurance consequences
0:17:18 > 0:17:23of that are got right.
0:17:23 > 0:17:27Article 50 is to be triggered on Wednesday of next week.
0:17:27 > 0:17:31Just in case you don't know, Article 50 is that part
0:17:31 > 0:17:33of the Lisbon Treaty that formally informs the European Union
0:17:33 > 0:17:36that Britain is leaving.
0:17:36 > 0:17:39The job of letting the President of the European Council
0:17:39 > 0:17:43know about the date, Wednesday March 29th,
0:17:43 > 0:17:47fell to the UK's new ambassador to the EU, Sir Tim Barrow.
0:17:47 > 0:17:51He replaced Sir Ivan Rogers, who resigned in January shortly
0:17:51 > 0:17:53after his remarks to Theresa May warning about a lengthy
0:17:53 > 0:17:57Brexit process got leaked.
0:17:57 > 0:18:00At a committee session, Sir Simon reassured MPs that,
0:18:00 > 0:18:10for the time being anyway, it's business as usual.
0:18:10 > 0:18:12Could you give us the latest gossip?
0:18:12 > 0:18:14Because I imagine that you told your colleagues
0:18:14 > 0:18:16over the weekend that the
0:18:16 > 0:18:19date for Article 50 being given was the 29th of March?
0:18:19 > 0:18:21I was very curious to know what the initial
0:18:21 > 0:18:24reaction was and what they might be looking at in terms of the
0:18:24 > 0:18:26negotiating timetable from the very early conversations in the
0:18:26 > 0:18:29Brussels.
0:18:29 > 0:18:37Thank you for that.
0:18:37 > 0:18:39I did not tell my colleagues anything over the weekend with
0:18:39 > 0:18:40regard to the date.
0:18:40 > 0:18:42I had some conversations this morning as you
0:18:42 > 0:18:44will have seen from the
0:18:44 > 0:18:47releases which you have had.
0:18:47 > 0:18:49And there was a welcome for the clarity of
0:18:49 > 0:18:52that date which fits full square in the commitment
0:18:52 > 0:18:53we have given the Prime
0:18:53 > 0:18:56Minister personally on the timetable.
0:18:56 > 0:18:59Insofar as that is gossip that is the news from Brussels this
0:18:59 > 0:19:00morning.
0:19:00 > 0:19:02Thank you very much.
0:19:02 > 0:19:05Do you or your officials identify any
0:19:05 > 0:19:07change in attitude given that we are negotiating with one eye
0:19:07 > 0:19:14on the door to leave, when we are negotiating
0:19:14 > 0:19:20particularly in relation to matters that will not necessarily affect us
0:19:20 > 0:19:23or affect us for a very brief period of time compared to
0:19:23 > 0:19:25negotiating when we were fully committed to membership for the
0:19:25 > 0:19:30indefinite future?
0:19:30 > 0:19:32To be honest, my colleagues, my committee, what I
0:19:32 > 0:19:36hear from working groups and the like, is that people
0:19:36 > 0:19:39are continuing to fully engage with us.
0:19:39 > 0:19:42We have voting rights, we have obligations, we have
0:19:42 > 0:19:50the rights of a member state, and that has been set
0:19:50 > 0:19:52as a direction, whether it be from the EU institutions,
0:19:52 > 0:19:54member states, or the rotating presidency.
0:19:54 > 0:20:00We are fully part of the conversation.
0:20:00 > 0:20:02Does it feel artificial in any way to be in a
0:20:02 > 0:20:04negotiation about something that has little bearing on us?
0:20:04 > 0:20:07I do not think there is any discussions we have in
0:20:07 > 0:20:17Brussels that have little bearing on us.
0:20:19 > 0:20:21A key issue is whether the UK should pay an exit fee.
0:20:22 > 0:20:23One estimate puts it at ?50 billion.
0:20:23 > 0:20:25But a Lords committee argues that the UK should
0:20:25 > 0:20:32have to pay nothing.
0:20:32 > 0:20:34Essentially this is not just by any means a legal question.
0:20:34 > 0:20:36It is also a political issue.
0:20:36 > 0:20:37Some statements have been made
0:20:37 > 0:20:40in going up as high as 60 billion as the monies due.
0:20:40 > 0:20:42Has anybody pointed out, and would you make sure they do
0:20:42 > 0:20:45understand, that we have been net contributors for many decades to
0:20:45 > 0:20:47the tune of what is now running at around nine
0:20:47 > 0:20:51or ten billion a year,
0:20:51 > 0:20:54that our accumulated liabilities are offset by the extent to which we
0:20:54 > 0:20:59have made these massive contributions?
0:20:59 > 0:21:09Perhaps also to bear in mind that back in 1953 there was
0:21:13 > 0:21:17a thing called the London Debt Agreement where Germany, for all its
0:21:17 > 0:21:19malfeasance during the Second World War, and its unprovoked aggression,
0:21:19 > 0:21:28found that in 1953 in circumstances which were quite remarkable, that we
0:21:28 > 0:21:30remitted one half of all German debt, and that
0:21:30 > 0:21:31therefore if you compare
0:21:31 > 0:21:36that situation with what it is now, and given Germany's extremely
0:21:36 > 0:21:46dominant role in the European Union at the moment, it might be worth
0:21:48 > 0:21:51tactfully, reminding people
0:21:51 > 0:21:54that there is a realistic position here, which is that we really don't
0:21:54 > 0:21:56owe anything to the European union.
0:21:56 > 0:21:57Whether it is legal or political.
0:21:57 > 0:21:59I am not entirely sure how tactful one can
0:21:59 > 0:22:02be when one is mentioning the London Debt Agreement.
0:22:02 > 0:22:04But nevertheless clearly there are a whole range of
0:22:04 > 0:22:05issues...
0:22:05 > 0:22:14You can chalk that one up to me.
0:22:14 > 0:22:17I will probably refer our interlocutors to you, certainly, Sir
0:22:17 > 0:22:27William, but I have to say there are a whole
0:22:31 > 0:22:34William, but I have to say there are a whole range
0:22:34 > 0:22:37of points that must
0:22:37 > 0:22:38emerge in the negotiations.
0:22:38 > 0:22:40Certainly the House of Lords Committee report was extremely
0:22:40 > 0:22:43helpful, and I'm sure that has not gone unnoticed in Brussels.
0:22:43 > 0:22:45Well, the think-tank, the Institute for Government,
0:22:45 > 0:22:48has estimated that as many as 15 new bills could be needed
0:22:48 > 0:22:50to deliver Brexit, a number that, it says,
0:22:50 > 0:22:52will place a huge burden on both Parliament and Government,
0:22:52 > 0:22:54and leave little time for other legislation.
0:22:54 > 0:22:56It said the extra 15 bills would cover areas
0:22:56 > 0:22:57such as immigration, agriculture and customs.
0:22:57 > 0:23:00And it would all be in addition to the Great Repeal Bill.
0:23:00 > 0:23:03Plenty for the House of Lords to argue over at question time.
0:23:03 > 0:23:08Oh, and as for that date, in case you missed it.
0:23:08 > 0:23:18We will trigger Article 50 on the 29th of March, next Wednesday.
0:23:19 > 0:23:21I assume that once the application has been
0:23:21 > 0:23:23put in for Article 50 that it is not reversible.
0:23:23 > 0:23:26It is a matter of firm policy that once Article 50
0:23:26 > 0:23:30is issued it will not be revoked, and I can also assure my noble
0:23:30 > 0:23:33friend and your Lordships that the Government is indeed intent on
0:23:33 > 0:23:35delivering the result of the referendum.
0:23:35 > 0:23:43The United Kingdom will leave the EU.
0:23:43 > 0:23:46And to quote line one of the White Paper, we do not
0:23:46 > 0:23:48approach these negotiations expecting failure, but anticipating
0:23:48 > 0:23:52success.
0:23:52 > 0:23:55The Brexit secretary David Davis last week told the Brexit
0:23:55 > 0:23:57Committee in the other place that the Government
0:23:57 > 0:23:59had not carried out a
0:23:59 > 0:24:02full assessment of the economic impact of the no deal pledged or
0:24:02 > 0:24:03threatened by the Prime Minister.
0:24:03 > 0:24:06He said he might be able to do it in
0:24:06 > 0:24:15about a year's time.
0:24:15 > 0:24:18Doesn't this show that the Government's
0:24:18 > 0:24:21brutal Brexit policy being driven by blinkered ideology, is totally
0:24:21 > 0:24:23incompetent and irresponsible, and doesn't it reinforce the need for
0:24:23 > 0:24:26Parliament to be in charge to stop a plunge off the cliff and for
0:24:26 > 0:24:28voters to get the final say?
0:24:28 > 0:24:30I am very sorry to disappoint the noble
0:24:30 > 0:24:31Baroness.
0:24:31 > 0:24:34I do not think it will come as a great surprise to say I
0:24:34 > 0:24:36disagree entirely with the premise of her question.
0:24:36 > 0:24:39We are not seeking the kind of outcome that the noble
0:24:39 > 0:24:40Baroness has just outlined.
0:24:40 > 0:24:42As I've just said we are seeking success in
0:24:42 > 0:24:43this negotiation.
0:24:43 > 0:24:46We are seeking a partnership, a partnership because
0:24:46 > 0:24:49we see it as in our interests and Europe's interests to come to such
0:24:49 > 0:24:51an agreement, and I am entirely of the view
0:24:51 > 0:24:53that we will be able to
0:24:53 > 0:24:55come to such a partnership, that we will be able
0:24:55 > 0:24:59to strike an agreement, so long as both sides enter into
0:24:59 > 0:25:02these negotiations in the spirit that we are doing, which is one of
0:25:02 > 0:25:03good faith and goodwill.
0:25:03 > 0:25:06One of the noble Lords on the front bench asked
0:25:06 > 0:25:07a key question.
0:25:07 > 0:25:08Can I ask the corollary?
0:25:08 > 0:25:18In view of the volume, the huge volume of legislation in
0:25:18 > 0:25:21order to implement Brexit will there be any time for any other
0:25:21 > 0:25:22legislation for Parliament?
0:25:22 > 0:25:23We have an action-packed manifesto which we are
0:25:23 > 0:25:25determined to see through as much as possible.
0:25:25 > 0:25:28I am sorry but that is what happens when you get elected,
0:25:28 > 0:25:29my lords.
0:25:29 > 0:25:32You get elected on a manifesto and then you see it through.
0:25:32 > 0:25:35And that is what we are going to do.
0:25:35 > 0:25:38Lord Bridges causing some merriment in the House of Lords.
0:25:38 > 0:25:39And that's it for this programme.
0:25:39 > 0:25:42Alicia McCarthy will be here for the rest of the week.
0:25:42 > 0:25:52But for now, from me Keith Macdougall, goodbye.