0:00:23 > 0:00:26Hello and welcome to Monday in Parliament, our look at the best
0:00:26 > 0:00:28of the day in the Commons and the Lords.
0:00:28 > 0:00:29On this programme.
0:00:29 > 0:00:30Fresh out of the blocks.
0:00:30 > 0:00:37The new Defence Secretary takes aim at Labour.
0:00:37 > 0:00:45A party whose leader does. Believe in a deterrent to be lectured on
0:00:45 > 0:00:48defence spending is a little bit rich.
0:00:48 > 0:00:50But Labour is unimpressed with the Government's latest
0:00:50 > 0:00:54industrial strategy.
0:00:54 > 0:01:00This will do nothing to help those who work in large low wage sectors
0:01:00 > 0:01:05or people who do not live in London, Cambridge and Oxford.
0:01:05 > 0:01:06And the long-running debate over university funding.
0:01:06 > 0:01:13Some MPs say, don't place the burden on the students.
0:01:13 > 0:01:17Both students and universities are victims of the Government's chaotic
0:01:17 > 0:01:19policy and free-market ideology.
0:01:20 > 0:01:21But first.
0:01:21 > 0:01:22Just in case you haven't heard.
0:01:22 > 0:01:24Prince Harry and the United States actor Meghan Markle have
0:01:25 > 0:01:27announced they're engaged.
0:01:27 > 0:01:29The couple made a fleeting appearance in the gardens
0:01:29 > 0:01:32at Kensington Palace in London, when Harry, the fifth
0:01:32 > 0:01:34in line to the Throne, said that Meghan was 'the one'
0:01:34 > 0:01:38from the first time they met.
0:01:38 > 0:01:40The couple are expected to marry in the Spring,
0:01:40 > 0:01:43but don't expect a Bank Holiday.
0:01:43 > 0:01:46Naturally Parliament couldn't be left out of the celebrations.
0:01:46 > 0:01:47Congratulations came swiftly
0:01:47 > 0:01:52from, as you might expect, the Speaker.
0:01:52 > 0:01:54I should like to make a short statement.
0:01:54 > 0:01:56Following the announcement from Clarence House
0:01:56 > 0:01:58today of the engagement of Prince Harry to
0:01:58 > 0:02:02Meghan Markle I am sure that
0:02:02 > 0:02:05members from both sides of the House will join
0:02:05 > 0:02:08me in congratulating the
0:02:08 > 0:02:11couple on this most happy occasion, and wishing them all the very best
0:02:11 > 0:02:14for their future together.
0:02:14 > 0:02:21Hear, hear.
0:02:21 > 0:02:24A few seconds later came the very first words in the Commons
0:02:24 > 0:02:31of the new Defence Secretary.
0:02:31 > 0:02:33May I start by congratulating, on behalf of
0:02:33 > 0:02:35those who work in our Armed Forces, his Royal Highness Prince
0:02:35 > 0:02:36Harry on his engagement
0:02:36 > 0:02:43to Meghan Markle?
0:02:43 > 0:02:46Prince Harry has acted as a proud champion of service
0:02:46 > 0:02:48men and women in the Armed Forces.
0:02:48 > 0:02:50Most notably with his commitment to the Invictus Games.
0:02:50 > 0:02:53I am sure we would all like to echo your words,
0:02:53 > 0:02:55Mr Speaker, in wishing the two of them the very best
0:02:56 > 0:02:59in their shared future together.
0:02:59 > 0:03:02On to the issue of when the new Queen Elizabeth-class
0:03:02 > 0:03:06Aircraft Carrier will be brought into service.
0:03:06 > 0:03:08Does my right honourable friend agree with me
0:03:08 > 0:03:11there is a sense of urgency as we are not only planning a global
0:03:11 > 0:03:13future for ourselves, and this will require
0:03:13 > 0:03:15a greater presence around the
0:03:15 > 0:03:18world, but with the royal wedding coming as early as next year, and
0:03:18 > 0:03:21with the absence of the yacht Britannia, is there the possibility
0:03:21 > 0:03:23that the new Prince and Princess will require something to sail
0:03:23 > 0:03:24around the seas with?
0:03:24 > 0:03:26LAUGHTER.
0:03:26 > 0:03:29Mr Speaker, I certainly wasn't anticipating that line of
0:03:29 > 0:03:31questioning from my honourable friend, the chair of the Foreign
0:03:31 > 0:03:35Affairs Committee, but he is absolutely right,
0:03:35 > 0:03:38that this new class of aircraft carrier will give a
0:03:38 > 0:03:43powerful expression of national ambition and intent
0:03:43 > 0:03:45Harriett Baldwin answering there.
0:03:45 > 0:03:48But all eyes at Defence Question Time were focused
0:03:48 > 0:03:50on the performance of Gavin Williamson.
0:03:50 > 0:03:54His job move at the start of the month from Government chief
0:03:54 > 0:03:58whip to Defence Secretary had attracted plenty of comment.
0:03:58 > 0:04:00And in recent days, there've been reports of Conservative discontent
0:04:00 > 0:04:02over threatened spending cuts to the armed forces.
0:04:02 > 0:04:04So what conversations had the new Defence Secretary had
0:04:04 > 0:04:11with the Chancellor?
0:04:11 > 0:04:16I have regular meetings with the Chancellor.
0:04:16 > 0:04:19I am yet to have a formal meeting with the Chancellor
0:04:19 > 0:04:22but I am looking forward to doing so to discuss our shared future.
0:04:22 > 0:04:23I want to congratulate my right honourable
0:04:23 > 0:04:26friend on taking up office in this vital position.
0:04:26 > 0:04:32When he does speak to the Chancellor will he take the
0:04:32 > 0:04:35opportunity of reminding him that in the Cold War years we spent 5% of
0:04:35 > 0:04:36GDP on defence?
0:04:36 > 0:04:45Now we spend barely 2% of GDP on defence.
0:04:45 > 0:04:47And perhaps a target nearer to 3% of GDP on
0:04:47 > 0:04:52defence might prevent our Armed Forces being further hollowed out.
0:04:52 > 0:05:02I will always listen intensely and very carefully to what my right
0:05:05 > 0:05:08honourable friend says.
0:05:08 > 0:05:11I have always seen 2% as a base, as against a ceiling, and I
0:05:11 > 0:05:14will be taking on board his thoughts and comments going forward, in terms
0:05:14 > 0:05:16of further discussions that I have.
0:05:16 > 0:05:18I welcome the Secretary of State to this place
0:05:18 > 0:05:21and I echo his and your good wishes to his Royal Highness
0:05:21 > 0:05:22Prince Harry and Meghan on their engagement.
0:05:22 > 0:05:25Mr Speaker, you cannot do security on the cheap.
0:05:25 > 0:05:32With expert after expert highlighting
0:05:32 > 0:05:34serious gaps in defence funding it was surreal
0:05:34 > 0:05:36last week to hear the
0:05:36 > 0:05:41Permanent Private Secretary say that the man in charge had made no formal
0:05:41 > 0:05:43pre budget requests to the Chancellor for more money.
0:05:43 > 0:05:45It is one thing to ask and not get, but
0:05:45 > 0:05:47another not even to bother asking.
0:05:47 > 0:05:48Did I hear correctly today?
0:05:48 > 0:05:50Would the Secretary of State confirm for
0:05:50 > 0:05:53us that he actually did not make any representation to the Chancellor
0:05:53 > 0:05:58before the budget?
0:05:58 > 0:06:01What we have to do is to ensure that we understand
0:06:01 > 0:06:09what the needs are for our defence, our Armed Forces, going forward.
0:06:09 > 0:06:12The honourable lady may wish to rush into things and actually just demand
0:06:12 > 0:06:13and demand and demand.
0:06:13 > 0:06:17What I want to do is to make sure that we have
0:06:17 > 0:06:18the arguments ready, understand the threats
0:06:18 > 0:06:20that this country faces, and
0:06:20 > 0:06:22make sure that we deliver for our Armed Forces.
0:06:22 > 0:06:28That is what the focus is going to be.
0:06:28 > 0:06:30I have many conversations with the Chancellor.
0:06:30 > 0:06:33I am looking forward to many more going forward.
0:06:33 > 0:06:35I think I will take that as a no.
0:06:35 > 0:06:39This is serious.
0:06:39 > 0:06:42We are hearing that the Marines may be cut
0:06:42 > 0:06:45by 15%, and the Army reduced to 70,000, something which would
0:06:45 > 0:06:53seriously put our international credibility at risk.
0:06:53 > 0:06:55With his own backbenchers in open rebellion and
0:06:55 > 0:06:58one of his ministers threatening to quit over cuts
0:06:58 > 0:07:00just how bad do things
0:07:00 > 0:07:03have to get before the Secretary of State does his job, stands up for
0:07:03 > 0:07:05defence, and tells the Prime Minister and Chancellor that enough
0:07:05 > 0:07:06is enough?
0:07:06 > 0:07:12I will take many lectures from many people.
0:07:12 > 0:07:17But from the party that is led by a man that
0:07:17 > 0:07:20doesn't even believe in the British Army, from a man,
0:07:20 > 0:07:30from a party whose leader doesn't actually believe in
0:07:35 > 0:07:37the continuous at sea nuclear deterrent, to be lectured
0:07:37 > 0:07:38about defence spending
0:07:38 > 0:07:39is a little bit rich.
0:07:39 > 0:07:41This is the party, the Conservative Party, that
0:07:41 > 0:07:43is making sure that we deliver on 2%.
0:07:43 > 0:07:46We are the party that is making sure that we are increasing defence
0:07:46 > 0:07:47spending.
0:07:47 > 0:07:48Gavin Williamson.
0:07:48 > 0:07:50The Government has called the alleged tampering of forensic
0:07:50 > 0:07:52evidence a "highly serious matter."
0:07:52 > 0:07:55Two scientists at the Randox Testing Services in Manchester,
0:07:55 > 0:07:57which works for police forces across the UK, were arrested
0:07:57 > 0:08:02earlier this year on suspicion of manipulating data.
0:08:02 > 0:08:04More than 10,000 cases, including violent crime
0:08:04 > 0:08:08and sexual offences, may have been affected.
0:08:08 > 0:08:10Some 50 drug-driving prosecutions have been dropped.
0:08:10 > 0:08:17A Minister was called to answer an urgent question.
0:08:17 > 0:08:19Criminal investigations by Greater Manchester Police
0:08:19 > 0:08:24into alleged manipulation of toxicology results
0:08:24 > 0:08:26are still ongoing, therefore the House will understand why I must
0:08:26 > 0:08:30be cautious in my response.
0:08:30 > 0:08:33I do want to assure members on all sides of the House
0:08:33 > 0:08:35that the matter is being treated with the utmost seriousness,
0:08:35 > 0:08:41given the need to retain public confidence in our justice system.
0:08:41 > 0:08:44The Government's immediate priority is to work with the police
0:08:44 > 0:08:49and the independent forensic science regulator, to establish
0:08:49 > 0:08:51scale of this issue, and the potential impact
0:08:52 > 0:08:53on the public.
0:08:53 > 0:08:55Does the Minister accept that this is the biggest forensic science
0:08:55 > 0:08:57scandal for decades?
0:08:57 > 0:09:01Does he further accept that involving, as it does,
0:09:01 > 0:09:04data which includes evidence used in sex cases, violent
0:09:04 > 0:09:11crimes, driving cases, and unexplained deaths,
0:09:11 > 0:09:21and the liberty of the subject, does he understand how concerned
0:09:23 > 0:09:33both victims and people possibly convicted on unsafe data are?
0:09:33 > 0:09:36Is it true that minister did not consult the chief scientific adviser
0:09:36 > 0:09:38on the decision to privatise the Forensic Science Service,
0:09:38 > 0:09:41merely informed him of the decision two weeks before announcing it?
0:09:41 > 0:09:50And does the Minister accept that many forensic scientists and other
0:09:50 > 0:09:52stakeholders believe that the problems that we're seeing
0:09:52 > 0:09:54now, the allegedly faulty data we are seeing now,
0:09:54 > 0:09:56flowed directly from the misconceived decision
0:09:56 > 0:09:59to privatise the Forensic Science Service?
0:09:59 > 0:10:03She is trying to squeeze this into a Labour political narrative
0:10:03 > 0:10:07around public good, private bad.
0:10:07 > 0:10:12What I would simply say to her is what the independent
0:10:12 > 0:10:18regulator has expressed in her view that no reasonable set of quality
0:10:18 > 0:10:20standards could guarantee to prevent malpractice by skilled
0:10:20 > 0:10:25but corrupt personnel.
0:10:25 > 0:10:29I would go further, I think there is general understanding
0:10:29 > 0:10:33and agreement that there has been increased stringency in standards
0:10:33 > 0:10:37and quality requirements for the forensic service.
0:10:37 > 0:10:40There is muttering on the benches opposite but this has been driven
0:10:40 > 0:10:50by the forensic science regulator.
0:10:59 > 0:11:02The minister does himself no credit when he sees it as a tribal issue.
0:11:02 > 0:11:05Can I refer him to three, three, not one or two
0:11:05 > 0:11:06reports of the Science and Technology Committee,
0:11:06 > 0:11:08all party, that criticised the Home Office, his
0:11:08 > 0:11:09Government's Home Office for not
0:11:09 > 0:11:12consulting Professor Silverman who was the adviser to the Home Office?
0:11:12 > 0:11:14Can I suggest he reads the evidence three times
0:11:14 > 0:11:17from Dr Tully, now the regulator of the Forensic Science Service
0:11:17 > 0:11:20who said, murderers and rapists will go free because of the changes
0:11:20 > 0:11:21that his Government made?
0:11:21 > 0:11:31Not one party, all parties came to that conclusion.
0:11:35 > 0:11:37Does the Minister agree that privatisation of vital elements
0:11:37 > 0:11:40of the justice system without proper oversight can lead to errors
0:11:40 > 0:11:42or deliberate tampering and the cost to both individuals affected
0:11:42 > 0:11:45and to confidence in the justice system outweigh any money saved?
0:11:45 > 0:11:47In order to reassure my constituents can the Minister confirm that
0:11:47 > 0:11:50for most serious family and criminal cases it is highly unlikely that
0:11:50 > 0:11:53a decision would have been made solely on the basis of one
0:11:53 > 0:12:00individual toxicology test?
0:12:00 > 0:12:05I do believe that to be true and my understanding also in some
0:12:05 > 0:12:08of these family cases there would be more than one test taken.
0:12:08 > 0:12:12However I don't take away the uncertainty that may be out
0:12:12 > 0:12:17there in terms of people who have been involved in these cases.
0:12:17 > 0:12:20You're watching our round-up of the day in the Commons and the Lords.
0:12:20 > 0:12:21Still to come.
0:12:21 > 0:12:28The Government unveils its new industrial strategy.
0:12:28 > 0:12:31The Government's rejected a demand that student tuition fees in England
0:12:31 > 0:12:37are cut by nearly 70% and revert to £3,000 a year.
0:12:37 > 0:12:39MPs have been debating an online petition calling for the reduction.
0:12:39 > 0:12:44It was signed by 164,000 people.
0:12:44 > 0:12:49In Westminster Hall, a number of Labour MPs
0:12:49 > 0:12:50backed the petitioners
0:12:50 > 0:12:52and some went further, pressing for fees to be
0:12:52 > 0:12:54scrapped altogether.
0:12:55 > 0:12:57Universities are seeing a real terms funding cut.
0:12:57 > 0:13:01Students are paying for the majority of the system, but seeing cuts
0:13:01 > 0:13:05to university funding from central Government.
0:13:05 > 0:13:08Both students and universities are victims of the Government's
0:13:08 > 0:13:10chaotic policy and free-market ideology, which means
0:13:10 > 0:13:16the Government take no responsibility for the destruction
0:13:16 > 0:13:19and dismantling of our once renowned sense of education, but degrade
0:13:19 > 0:13:22our institutions by starving them of state funding.
0:13:22 > 0:13:31According to the Sutton Trust, eight out of ten students will never
0:13:31 > 0:13:34fully repay their tuition fee loans and the decision to raise
0:13:34 > 0:13:36the minimum earning level at which loan repayments kick
0:13:36 > 0:13:38in from 21,000 to £25,000 means 81%
0:13:38 > 0:13:45of graduates will not pay back what they owe.
0:13:45 > 0:13:48Their report called Fairer Fees dentified typical debts
0:13:48 > 0:13:52on graduating as being around £46,000,
0:13:52 > 0:13:55rising to 52,000 for those entitled to take out maintenance loans
0:13:55 > 0:14:00to cover the cost of living.
0:14:00 > 0:14:03There are so many students leaving university with such high debts
0:14:03 > 0:14:04they will never pay them back.
0:14:04 > 0:14:06Therefore, the loss to the Exchequer is quite transparent.
0:14:06 > 0:14:09That would suggest the balance is wrong and there needs
0:14:09 > 0:14:13to be adjustments.
0:14:13 > 0:14:19I wonder if he in those days foresaw cases like that of Siobhan.
0:14:19 > 0:14:22She is on £27,000 and she pays £58 a month of repayments
0:14:22 > 0:14:25but if she does any overtime, that goes up to £115.
0:14:25 > 0:14:28She says, I feel like I am being robbed every time
0:14:28 > 0:14:29I try to better myself in society.
0:14:29 > 0:14:31She wants to get on the housing ladder.
0:14:31 > 0:14:32She's being penalised.
0:14:32 > 0:14:35Her loans go up and up.
0:14:35 > 0:14:38It is the Student Loans Company who are taking what she earns.
0:14:38 > 0:14:40I accept there is a challenge here.
0:14:40 > 0:14:46I accept many people are concerned but the reality is many more
0:14:46 > 0:14:50students are going to university and many more students on low-income
0:14:50 > 0:14:53backgrounds are going to university compared to a number of years ago.
0:14:53 > 0:14:58So we have to be careful to have these debates on the facts.
0:14:58 > 0:15:02He argued that fees where fair.
0:15:02 > 0:15:05When I went to university in 1999, I was the second
0:15:05 > 0:15:06year of tuition fees.
0:15:06 > 0:15:10I paid £1,000.
0:15:10 > 0:15:12I recognise that is nothing like the amount of money
0:15:12 > 0:15:14being asked for today.
0:15:14 > 0:15:17I do accept that if you are going to benefit from it,
0:15:17 > 0:15:20if you are likely to achieve a greater amount of pay over
0:15:20 > 0:15:23the period over your working life, therefore you should be
0:15:23 > 0:15:26expected or should be hoped to pay a greater share of the amount
0:15:26 > 0:15:28that the cost to get you into that position.
0:15:28 > 0:15:30Funding per student, per degree up 25% since
0:15:30 > 0:15:31the the funding reforms came
0:15:31 > 0:15:33in at the beginning of the last Parliament.
0:15:33 > 0:15:35The university system is better funded than it has
0:15:35 > 0:15:39been than at any point over the last 30 years.
0:15:39 > 0:15:46It is the progressive nature of this system that is ensuring higher
0:15:46 > 0:15:49education is at the same time open to all people who have the potential
0:15:49 > 0:15:50to benefit from it.
0:15:50 > 0:15:54And in all of this, the Government is ensuring that the costs of our
0:15:54 > 0:15:56system are split fairly between graduates and other
0:15:56 > 0:15:58taxpayers, with graduate contributions linked to income.
0:15:58 > 0:16:04The latest debate over student tuition fees.
0:16:04 > 0:16:06The Government's published its latest industrial strategy,
0:16:06 > 0:16:09with a promise to tackle the problem of low-productivity that's holding
0:16:09 > 0:16:13back wages and living standards.
0:16:13 > 0:16:17The Business Secretary said his aim was to make Britain the world's most
0:16:17 > 0:16:24innovative economy by means of an infrastructure upgrade.
0:16:24 > 0:16:26And he dismissed the notion that governments should not draw up
0:16:26 > 0:16:27industrial strategies.
0:16:27 > 0:16:35There are still those who hear the words industrial strategy
0:16:35 > 0:16:37and associate it with the mistakes of the past, about twarting
0:16:37 > 0:16:40competition, shielding incumbents and continuing with the status quo.
0:16:40 > 0:16:42This is not the approach that we will take.
0:16:42 > 0:16:46Our modern industrial strategy is not about protecting the past,
0:16:46 > 0:16:52it is about taking control of our future as a nation.
0:16:52 > 0:16:57He said leading scientists had identified for challenges.
0:16:58 > 0:17:01Artificial intelligence
0:17:01 > 0:17:03and data driven economy, clean growth,
0:17:03 > 0:17:06the future of mobility and meeting the needs of an ageing society.
0:17:06 > 0:17:08Whether we like it or not, these challenges are sweeping
0:17:08 > 0:17:13the world and if we act now, we can lead them from the front.
0:17:13 > 0:17:20If we wait and see then other countries will seize the initiative.
0:17:20 > 0:17:23Which of the policies detailed also focus on spending any handful
0:17:23 > 0:17:27of specified sectors in which the UK already has comparative advantage.
0:17:27 > 0:17:34This will do nothing to help the millions who work in large,
0:17:34 > 0:17:40low wage, low productivity sectors like retail, hospitality and care
0:17:40 > 0:17:43or people who do not live in the
0:17:43 > 0:17:45Golden Triangle made up from London, Cambridge and Oxford.
0:17:45 > 0:17:47The problem of the Labour front bench is they think
0:17:48 > 0:17:49it is all about money.
0:17:49 > 0:17:52Money is important but it is how and when you spend it that matters.
0:17:52 > 0:17:54What you need is an industrial strategy that is bold
0:17:54 > 0:17:56and has a huge vision.
0:17:56 > 0:18:00That is what this document has.
0:18:00 > 0:18:03Does the Minister realise that it is possible to convince
0:18:03 > 0:18:13the country that a Tory Government, a Tory Government, has got
0:18:14 > 0:18:18the capacity to introduce a decent industrial strategy?
0:18:18 > 0:18:25In 18 Tory years
0:18:25 > 0:18:28whilst I was here, they closed down most of the shipbuilding industry,
0:18:28 > 0:18:31they got rid of the lot of the steel industry, they closed every single
0:18:31 > 0:18:39pit, now they are buying 40 million tonnes of coal
0:18:39 > 0:18:43from countries
0:18:43 > 0:18:46we don't even trust.
0:18:46 > 0:18:48This is the actions of the Tory Government and remember,
0:18:48 > 0:18:51stop this nonsense about trying to tell the people that
0:18:51 > 0:18:53unemployment now is less than after a Labour Government,
0:18:53 > 0:18:58because the Labour Government after the Second World War,
0:18:58 > 0:19:03it was down to 2.2%, 440,000, and when it was
0:19:03 > 0:19:05a million, it was Ted Heath who was in Government.
0:19:05 > 0:19:11What a lousy bunch.
0:19:11 > 0:19:14What I would say to the honourable gentleman is it is the case
0:19:14 > 0:19:22that every time there is a Labour Government,
0:19:22 > 0:19:25it is this Government that has to reverse the chaos that has been
0:19:25 > 0:19:27caused and revive the economy.
0:19:27 > 0:19:28Greg Clark.
0:19:28 > 0:19:30Meanwhile, the Government's industrial strategy was also being
0:19:30 > 0:19:36discussed in the House of Lords.
0:19:36 > 0:19:40The reports by the IFS and the Resolution Foundation
0:19:40 > 0:19:49and the OBR after the budget, forecast stagnant
0:19:49 > 0:19:52growth for the next 10 years - it is a truly frightening prospect.
0:19:52 > 0:19:55There was very little in the statement about the urgent
0:19:55 > 0:19:59need for more skills training.
0:19:59 > 0:20:02I am sure he will agree that we are not going to achieve
0:20:02 > 0:20:04growth productivity or implement this industrial strategy amassed
0:20:04 > 0:20:07we are able to greatly improve the level of skills amongst
0:20:07 > 0:20:17the workforce, especially in the area of construction
0:20:19 > 0:20:21where Brexit is going to be certainly damaging
0:20:21 > 0:20:22in that we will have
0:20:22 > 0:20:24fewer European workers able to operate in this country,
0:20:24 > 0:20:26or those who will be likely to be willing to.
0:20:26 > 0:20:29I welcome the white paper that is so critical
0:20:29 > 0:20:33to the nation's fortunes.
0:20:33 > 0:20:37I hope it will gather consensus.
0:20:37 > 0:20:39This period of continuous political gloom, so it often seems,
0:20:39 > 0:20:48this is a reason to be cheerful.
0:20:48 > 0:20:50I welcome the industrial strategy Council, that the select committee
0:20:50 > 0:20:52on science and technology was pushing very hard for.
0:20:52 > 0:20:55Universal Credit is a success story producing remarkable outcomes,
0:20:55 > 0:20:56in the words of a top civil servant.
0:20:56 > 0:20:59The new welfare system, sometimes called UC,
0:20:59 > 0:21:01wraps up six different benefits into a single payment and is
0:21:01 > 0:21:05designed always to make work pay.
0:21:05 > 0:21:12Despite strong criticisms, the new system was defended
0:21:12 > 0:21:14at the Commons Public Accounts committee by Sir Robert Devereux.
0:21:14 > 0:21:17He's about to retire after seven years as the chief
0:21:17 > 0:21:19official at the Department for Work and Pensions.
0:21:19 > 0:21:22The committee chair started the session.
0:21:23 > 0:21:28I wanted to cover some of the issues around your department but starting
0:21:28 > 0:21:33off with Universal Credit which has been the biggest project that any
0:21:33 > 0:21:38secretary has had to implement.In short, would you say it has been a
0:21:38 > 0:21:43success so far? Yes, the reason that the Government introduced Universal
0:21:43 > 0:21:47Credit is to get more people into work and all the academic evidence
0:21:47 > 0:21:52to pier reviewed by external parties, three times now, does
0:21:52 > 0:21:59demonstrate that it is getting more people into work.We have 8% of the
0:21:59 > 0:22:04population on Universal Credit. Is that right?Yes, the point I am
0:22:04 > 0:22:09making is that for a limited period, while you are still running the old
0:22:09 > 0:22:13system alongside the new system, you cannot properly compare whether this
0:22:13 > 0:22:18new system is better than the old one. Particularly for the benefit of
0:22:18 > 0:22:24some of your visitors glistening, the regime we are changing has been
0:22:24 > 0:22:30consistently assessed as the best in the world, to over achieve against
0:22:30 > 0:22:34that is a remarkable outcome.As the system agile enough to make changes
0:22:34 > 0:22:41as it is buffeted by the very real experience of people on the ground?
0:22:41 > 0:22:45And how quickly will be changes be implemented? Is the whole system
0:22:45 > 0:22:50able to change and how quickly will these changes be implemented?Any
0:22:50 > 0:22:56programme that is as massive as this will encounter changes along the
0:22:56 > 0:23:02way. The fact that we have embarked on Brexit, we have had Grenfell
0:23:02 > 0:23:07Tower, lots of things happen in life and you have to adjust it.Did you
0:23:07 > 0:23:14give advice of the payments of the housing elements to Ministers?We
0:23:14 > 0:23:17advise Ministers and all of their policies to stop did you highlight
0:23:17 > 0:23:25that aspect? I have had for secretaries of State and the last
0:23:25 > 0:23:31three have been aware of the issue. Can I thank you... Can I just take
0:23:31 > 0:23:36two minutes to say something back to the committee? I have appeared 30
0:23:36 > 0:23:41times now.It will not take me very long. I will be indulgent but I am
0:23:41 > 0:23:48aware of time.I have been here a long time. First of all, more than
0:23:48 > 0:23:54you might imagine, the system you provide overdoes work. -- the system
0:23:54 > 0:24:01you preside over. Publicly accountable to Parliament does keep
0:24:01 > 0:24:04everyone on the straight and narrow. Everybody knows that day to day
0:24:04 > 0:24:09decisions have got to be right and it does not typically getting out
0:24:09 > 0:24:13the real work. Secondly just in the method of scrutiny, I do think
0:24:13 > 0:24:17possibly the committee might want to think of one thing. All of the
0:24:17 > 0:24:24hearings I have done has been about the certain project, and very rarely
0:24:24 > 0:24:27do you ask me about the circumstances and totality of many
0:24:27 > 0:24:33of the things I have been doing. Lastly, I would say that despite all
0:24:33 > 0:24:37of that, I am incredibly proud of the stuff of the things my
0:24:37 > 0:24:41colleagues have done. In the last six years, we average is to our
0:24:41 > 0:24:47costs and staffing by 60,000 people as we have become more efficient and
0:24:47 > 0:24:51taken out 50 million phone calls per year and become more digital, all of
0:24:51 > 0:24:55which has improved our customer service and reduced our complaints.
0:24:55 > 0:25:00We managed to become finalists along with Shell for project company of
0:25:00 > 0:25:08the year. The thing that underpins all of that and I would leave as the
0:25:08 > 0:25:13most important thing to my successor, ultimately the success of
0:25:13 > 0:25:17the department relies on the motivation and hard work of the
0:25:17 > 0:25:23people who are employed by me. It has gone up by six percentage points
0:25:23 > 0:25:27and it is that engagement and their pride in what they do and belief and
0:25:27 > 0:25:32making a change to people's lives that has been the change and that is
0:25:32 > 0:25:36going to be true to the success long after I have retired. Thank you for
0:25:36 > 0:25:37listening to me.
0:25:37 > 0:25:41Sir Robert Devereux in reflective mood.
0:25:41 > 0:25:42And that's it for this programme.
0:25:42 > 0:25:45Mandy Baker will be here for the rest of the week.
0:25:45 > 0:25:49But for now, from me, Keith Macdougall, goodbye.