In or Out?

:00:00. > :00:00.questions and we will get to them at the end. Here is our host and chair

:00:00. > :00:21.for the evening. You don't normally get Newsbeat at

:00:22. > :00:24.9pm on Radio 1 or on Extra, tonight we're on for an hour, live in

:00:25. > :00:34.Birmingham w, quite a few of you. APPLAUSE

:00:35. > :00:38.Watch us as well, we're on the BBC News channel. Why? Because there's

:00:39. > :00:42.just nine days until one of the biggest votes of our life time. The

:00:43. > :00:45.question is: In or out? Should the United Kingdom stay part of the

:00:46. > :00:49.European Union or should it leave? Plenty of you say you're confused.

:00:50. > :00:54.Whatever you want to know, we'll do our best to get the answers to your

:00:55. > :01:00.questions. Loads of you say you want more facts. Alex is here with loads

:01:01. > :01:04.of stuff that we know for sure. We've had big claims thrown around

:01:05. > :01:07.by both sides in the campaign about whether staying or leaving would

:01:08. > :01:10.affect your jobs, wages, even your mobile phone bill. We will sift

:01:11. > :01:14.through those and separate the fact from the fiction. Great stuff. Nick

:01:15. > :01:20.is over there with your texts and tweets. I am Billy no mates at the

:01:21. > :01:25.bar. I'm relying on you at home to get in touch so I have somebody to

:01:26. > :01:29.talk to. Do you have questions on jobs, immigration, anything - the

:01:30. > :01:34.last ten minutes of the show is yours, hashtag Newsbeat. Both sides

:01:35. > :01:40.are here. For the Remain campaign, Chuka Umunna. For the Leave

:01:41. > :01:45.campaign, Dominic Raab. APPLAUSE

:01:46. > :01:49.With nine days to go, how are you guys feeling about the vote? I'm

:01:50. > :01:52.from Telford and I'm voting Remain because I believe the economy is

:01:53. > :01:57.going to be stronger if we stay in the EU. We need migrants' help to

:01:58. > :02:03.boost the economy. Everyone's assuming the worst if we are to

:02:04. > :02:06.stay. We're going to hear a lot of pessimism from the Remain side.

:02:07. > :02:11.Instead of seeing this as a negative step for Britain, this is more of a

:02:12. > :02:16.golden opportunity. Immigration is a disgrace and pretty much an insult

:02:17. > :02:21.to working class British people. Our sovereignty is in tatters. It's time

:02:22. > :02:25.we realise we're worth more than a star on someone else's flag. What's

:02:26. > :02:30.your response to that? I counteract that. I disagree completely.

:02:31. > :02:34.Migrants are boosting the economy. We have an ageing population, which

:02:35. > :02:39.unfortunately they can't keep paying into. So obviously the migrants are

:02:40. > :02:44.just putting in more money for the NHS to help them. Whether you are

:02:45. > :02:48.online or watching on TV, we're at the O2 Institute, not the usual gig

:02:49. > :02:51.they have here. We've split the audience in two, the people who

:02:52. > :02:53.think they are going to vote to leave and the people who think

:02:54. > :02:57.they're going to vote to stay. So, time for the topic, you say is one

:02:58. > :03:03.of the most important, immigration. Here's Nick with the stuff you need

:03:04. > :03:09.to know. In 2015, it's estimated 270,000

:03:10. > :03:15.people came to live in the UK from inside the EU. 277,000 people came

:03:16. > :03:21.from outside. Take away the number that left the UK in that time, you

:03:22. > :03:27.get an increase in the population of 188,000 from outside the European

:03:28. > :03:32.Union and 184,000 from inside. This number the UK can control with a

:03:33. > :03:35.points-based system limiting entry. This number, though, it can't,

:03:36. > :03:39.because of an EU rule called the freedom of movement. So let's

:03:40. > :03:44.explain that. As part of the EU, the UK is in something called the single

:03:45. > :03:48.market. It was set up to help trade between member countries. If you're

:03:49. > :03:52.part of the single market, you have to agree to freedom of movement,

:03:53. > :03:56.meaning EU citizens can come and live and work freely in your

:03:57. > :04:00.country. The Leave campaign would like to extend the points-based

:04:01. > :04:06.system to people coming from Europe as well as those outside. To do

:04:07. > :04:10.that, we'd need to get rid of the freedom of movement and get out of

:04:11. > :04:17.the single market. That would mean leaving the EU. But and there's

:04:18. > :04:21.always a but, because of the trade benefits, even if the UK was out of

:04:22. > :04:28.the European Union, it may still want to remain in the single market,

:04:29. > :04:34.like Norway and Norway has a high proportion of EU immigrants --

:04:35. > :04:41.higher proportion of EU immigrants than the UK. The UK -- migrants

:04:42. > :04:44.contribute more to the UK's wallet than they get back. The majority of

:04:45. > :04:49.them have jobs lined up before they get here. The Leave camp claim

:04:50. > :04:53.immigration can impact jobs. They point to evidence that it can drive

:04:54. > :04:56.down wages. They say high levels of immigration put too much pressure on

:04:57. > :05:01.public services, like hospitals and schools. In simple terms, the

:05:02. > :05:06.immigration debate can be split into two: On one side, it's all about the

:05:07. > :05:11.benefits. The Remain campaign say it helps the UK economy and makes the

:05:12. > :05:16.country richer. For the other, it's about control. The Outcampaign say

:05:17. > :05:25.the only way to keep numbers in check is to get out of the EU.

:05:26. > :05:29.Immigration, what are the types of conversations you're having with

:05:30. > :05:35.your friends? For me, immigration's quite a personal thing. I'm actually

:05:36. > :05:40.a second generation immigrant. My mum's Romanian. My dad grew up in

:05:41. > :05:44.Canada. I grew up in Scotland and spent my entire life. There the

:05:45. > :05:47.point about immigration is no-one in the Leave campaign is suggesting

:05:48. > :05:51.that we're going to pull up the drawbridge or not allow immigrants

:05:52. > :05:55.come to this country. That's not our message. What we want is to be like

:05:56. > :05:59.any other country in the world, not one of the 27 EU member states, that

:06:00. > :06:02.have their own immigration policies to make it work for their own

:06:03. > :06:05.countries. There is nothing wrong with the immigration policies that

:06:06. > :06:12.those countries have. Why can't we have the privilege they do? Why

:06:13. > :06:17.can't we have immigration policies to cope with the NHS and our own

:06:18. > :06:22.industries. For me, the immigration point seems like common sense the

:06:23. > :06:28.argument to leave. It's something the Remain campaign has no answers

:06:29. > :06:34.for. For remain we have xenophobic literature being produced. It says

:06:35. > :06:38.vote Remain to stop immigration from non-EU countries, which is an ugly

:06:39. > :06:42.and distasteful campaign as well. Today in Scotland Ming Campbell said

:06:43. > :06:48.a Brexit vote would damage race relations. This shows the shameful,

:06:49. > :06:53.negative Remain campaign which has turned from project fear to project

:06:54. > :06:57.ugly. When we say Brexit, we mean Britain exiting the European Union.

:06:58. > :07:00.I'm from Birmingham, honestly, I believe it's ignorant and awful as

:07:01. > :07:04.well to believe that mass immigration or immigration as a hole

:07:05. > :07:06.is negative to the UK. You look back through history, immigration has

:07:07. > :07:11.always been fundamental in British society. It has upheld our values

:07:12. > :07:17.and industry. It's upheld our country. After World War II, the

:07:18. > :07:21.gushingaways coming over -- Gurkhas coming over, taking the jobs we

:07:22. > :07:25.needed to be done. People are coming over to do the work that is needed

:07:26. > :07:29.to be done as well as ensuring the prosperity and future of our

:07:30. > :07:35.country. On a further note, I think it's quite awful as well, when you

:07:36. > :07:38.look at people like myself of a dual heritage, people with the

:07:39. > :07:44.opportunity of our ancestors to come over. My family on one side came

:07:45. > :07:46.from Jamaica in the 1950s. They've worked constantly since they've come

:07:47. > :07:49.over. It's always understood that it's the worst thing that can

:07:50. > :07:55.possibly happen. It's always seen as completely negative when we don't

:07:56. > :07:59.look at the positive benefits it brings. What's your response? This

:08:00. > :08:05.idea of fear when it comes to immigration? Like Joshua, I come

:08:06. > :08:09.from a background of immigrants. My father is a refugee to this country

:08:10. > :08:15.from Czechoslovakia. I have a Brazilian wife. I want Britain to be

:08:16. > :08:19.an outward, open country and a global player with global or risens.

:08:20. > :08:22.I want that for -- horizons, I want that for my family. I agree about

:08:23. > :08:26.the benefits of immigration. The problem is the lack of control. The

:08:27. > :08:30.truth is no-one on the Remain side is suggesting that in relation to

:08:31. > :08:35.non-EU immigration we open our borders. There is no other country

:08:36. > :08:39.or region in the world with open border immigration. I don't think

:08:40. > :08:44.the Remain camp can airbrush the costs as well as talking about the

:08:45. > :08:50.benefits. Let me give you an example in. Bulgaria and Romania, the

:08:51. > :08:54.average wage is ?3 an hour. In this country, thankfully the minimum wage

:08:55. > :08:57.is 7. ?7.20 an hour. You have to think of the pull factor that has,

:08:58. > :09:01.the downward pressure it has on wages in this country and also, the

:09:02. > :09:04.strain it puts on infrastructure like housing and the impact on

:09:05. > :09:09.public services like the NHS and schools. People can say, the Remain

:09:10. > :09:12.camp can say, this is just a price worth paying, be honest about it and

:09:13. > :09:18.be honest about who is bearing the brunt. It's your generation as the

:09:19. > :09:21.working and lower middle income families that will feel those

:09:22. > :09:25.pressures. When you say it's going to be our generation taking the

:09:26. > :09:28.brunt of it. I believe our generation has more compassion of

:09:29. > :09:32.that, more unity. We have more of a brighter future together. It's about

:09:33. > :09:35.unity. We can't discriminate and segregate against these people

:09:36. > :09:38.because they're from a poor background in Eastern Europe, for

:09:39. > :09:41.example. They're coming over specifically for benefits or certain

:09:42. > :09:47.type of wage. We need to look at coming together as one rather than

:09:48. > :09:51.causing constant segregation and discrimination, which ultimately is

:09:52. > :09:55.just tearing us apart. Is that what the Leave campaign stands for?

:09:56. > :09:59.Absolutely not. Our current rules are discriminatory. We have

:10:00. > :10:03.open-door immigration with Europe in relation to non-EU immigration, all

:10:04. > :10:08.the talent and benefits we can get from that we have a points based

:10:09. > :10:11.system. If you really believe in open-door immigration, wouldn't you

:10:12. > :10:20.advocate it for non-EU immigration? There is no-one in mainstream

:10:21. > :10:23.politics that does. Chuka Umunna? I wouldn't deny that immigration can

:10:24. > :10:27.pose challenges in our labour market. That's why you need a good,

:10:28. > :10:32.national minimum wage at the highest level possible that is actually

:10:33. > :10:36.enforced, which it isn't always by the current government. I think

:10:37. > :10:38.people rightly want people to contribute into our Social Security

:10:39. > :10:43.system before they take out. They're going to have to do that for four

:10:44. > :10:46.years. They want to help people would come here to actually

:10:47. > :10:51.integrate and learn our language. But this idea that we have housing

:10:52. > :10:56.problems, we have challenges in the NHS, school place challenges and the

:10:57. > :10:59.rest of it, because of all of these immigrants is complete nonsense.

:11:00. > :11:03.Actually, lets the current Government off the hook. Let's not

:11:04. > :11:06.forget the other side of the equation. Lots of people might want

:11:07. > :11:10.to live and work in other countries at some point. We have two million

:11:11. > :11:15.Brits living and working in the European Union and enjoying the

:11:16. > :11:19.benefits that brings. Let's not forget the 100,000 EU nationals who

:11:20. > :11:25.work in our NHS here and help it go, help it keep going. Let's not forget

:11:26. > :11:29.the fact that we have 1. 5 million people employed here in EU citizen

:11:30. > :11:34.owned businesses. Let's have a balanced debate. Let's not dump the

:11:35. > :11:44.blame for our country's problems on EU immigrants.

:11:45. > :11:48.I'm from South Wales. I want to say that you seem to be suggesting that

:11:49. > :11:51.if we leave the European Union we can never work in Europe again.

:11:52. > :11:55.That's nonsense. It is scaremongering. You can all go and

:11:56. > :11:58.work in Europe. You can apply for a visa, like you would to any other

:11:59. > :12:02.country in the world, but that is beside the point I wanted to make.

:12:03. > :12:07.We talk about discrimination in the immigration system. I work in a

:12:08. > :12:09.Bengali restaurant and I see first hand the discrimination in the

:12:10. > :12:13.system. There is a discrimination because people from outside the

:12:14. > :12:18.European Union have to go through a double standard system. A lot of

:12:19. > :12:20.these people their grand fathers and grand mothers suffered through World

:12:21. > :12:24.War II for this country an the Commonwealth. We are friends. We are

:12:25. > :12:28.allies outside the European Union, hard working people with skills to

:12:29. > :12:30.bring here. Curry industry, curry shops are closing at a rate of

:12:31. > :12:33.week in the United Kingdom - Is that week in the United Kingdom - Is that

:12:34. > :12:37.because of immigration policies? That can be traced almost directly

:12:38. > :12:40.to immigration policies. It's incredibly difficult to source the

:12:41. > :12:45.skills in the UK for chefs in that industry. Do you want a limit on

:12:46. > :12:49.people from inside the European Union but more people to be able to

:12:50. > :12:53.come in from outside? I want what the Leave campaign advocates, a

:12:54. > :12:55.complete across the board points system that allows people with

:12:56. > :12:59.skills, people would want to come here to work, people who want to

:13:00. > :13:03.come here and work hard to come to the UK, not just because they're

:13:04. > :13:07.born in Europe by some kind of virtue of birth. That's wrong.

:13:08. > :13:13.That's discriminatory. I don't mind where you came from. You can come

:13:14. > :13:16.here and work either way. The points based system that applies to non-EU

:13:17. > :13:19.immigrants coming here has nothing to do - the restriction that's

:13:20. > :13:23.you're talking about, have nothing to do with the EU and everything to

:13:24. > :13:27.do with the Government's policy, which is to get immigration down to

:13:28. > :13:31.the tens of thousands. If you adopt the points based system which Leave

:13:32. > :13:35.advocates, this Australian system, that they have in Australia, they

:13:36. > :13:38.actually had that system in Australia to promote immigration.

:13:39. > :13:43.They have at least two or three times the amount of immigration that

:13:44. > :13:48.we have. Look, as I said, I'm not denying that immigration poses

:13:49. > :13:52.challenges. But the idea that if we left the European Union immigration

:13:53. > :13:56.would fall away as an issue, as the package just showed is for the

:13:57. > :13:59.birds. Wee got more people coming to -- we've got more people coming here

:14:00. > :14:03.from outside the European Union than inside the European Union. We

:14:04. > :14:07.shouldn't be conning people - It's about level, isn't it? What should

:14:08. > :14:10.happen, what should the immigration policies be? Because it is an issue

:14:11. > :14:15.for Labour voters as well. Absolutely. Like I've said, I don't

:14:16. > :14:18.deny it's an issue. Enforce the national minimum wage. Ensure people

:14:19. > :14:22.contribute into the system before taking out. One of the biggest

:14:23. > :14:24.things that we have failed to do, decade after decade, never mind

:14:25. > :14:28.immigration from the European Union, but from other countries as well, we

:14:29. > :14:31.have failed to properly ensure that we have intergrated communities in

:14:32. > :14:36.this country. Here in Birmingham, where I represent in London, we

:14:37. > :14:41.pride ourselves on our diversity, the fact is we have communities

:14:42. > :14:45.living parallel lives. We spend so much time focussed on the numbers of

:14:46. > :14:50.people coming in - I'm not saying we shouldn't talk about that - we don't

:14:51. > :14:53.spend enough time thinking about when people settle here how do we

:14:54. > :15:01.make sure they're part of the community? Let us do that more.

:15:02. > :15:04.I'm from Stafford. I completely agree with Chuka Umunna tonight not

:15:05. > :15:08.just because I'm on the Remain campaign. What I will say is that

:15:09. > :15:14.people say that immigrants and immigration are taking a massive

:15:15. > :15:19.toll on our welfare system, on our country, on everything that comes

:15:20. > :15:23.out of our pockets. But teenage pregnancy is at an all-time high.

:15:24. > :15:27.It's not just immigrants giving birth and having sex. It's not just

:15:28. > :15:31.choose to have elderly parents or choose to have elderly parents or

:15:32. > :15:33.choose to go to a better country to have a better life. As long as you

:15:34. > :15:37.want to do well in the world, as want to do well in the world, as

:15:38. > :15:41.long as you've not got a criminal record and you're not going to be a

:15:42. > :15:43.massive threat to anyone, you should be welcome anywhere, as long as

:15:44. > :15:47.there's space for you. Do you think there should be any limits to

:15:48. > :15:52.immigration in this country? I think the limits that we have on now are

:15:53. > :15:55.being highly tested at the moment, especially by events going on around

:15:56. > :16:00.the world. A lot of people are forming their opinion of immigration

:16:01. > :16:03.on things that are being called terrorist attacks or by racial

:16:04. > :16:08.stereotyping and xenophobia in the media. Dominic Raab, what does the

:16:09. > :16:13.Leave campaign say about limits when it comes to immigration? We'd like

:16:14. > :16:16.the same limits we have in relation to non-EU immigration, which every

:16:17. > :16:20.other country around the world - You say that, but those numbers are

:16:21. > :16:23.generally level. In fact more people came from - when you look at net

:16:24. > :16:29.migration - more people came from outside the EU. It fluctuates

:16:30. > :16:33.though. In relation to EU migration, you have control. The glaring thing

:16:34. > :16:36.immigration is all good or bad. I immigration is all good or bad. I

:16:37. > :16:41.don't think that's where anyone in the room is. It's where you need to

:16:42. > :16:46.have national control. Yes, you yield the benefits both culturally,

:16:47. > :16:49.socially and economically, but you can control the pressures and costs

:16:50. > :16:53.on local infrastructure. You can't airbrush that out of the debate.

:16:54. > :16:58.That's why we've heard today three senior Labour figures, Tom Watson,

:16:59. > :17:05.Andy Burnham, I forget the third... Erm...... Ed Balls, saying that the

:17:06. > :17:12.EU rules on free movement have to change. The reason I find it

:17:13. > :17:15.slightly disingenuous, not on Chuka Umunna's part, we've just had a

:17:16. > :17:19.re-negotiation, the rules haven't changed. If you want to exert

:17:20. > :17:24.control, you have to vote and take back control. This whole debate

:17:25. > :17:27.shouldn't be consumed by immigration, but it's an important

:17:28. > :17:35.thing that youngsters are concerned about up and down the country.

:17:36. > :17:38.What's your response to that, we're hearing different things today from

:17:39. > :17:44.Labour Party, from Jeremy Corbyn, and then different things from Tom

:17:45. > :17:48.Watson. What's your response? I haven't heard what they've all been

:17:49. > :17:54.saying today, but I think - I want to correct one thing. I don't want

:17:55. > :17:58.people watching think there are no controls. We're not part of the

:17:59. > :18:04.Schengen area, the passport free area. In most EU countries you can

:18:05. > :18:09.move around without necessarily showing a passport. When you get off

:18:10. > :18:12.a plane in Birmingham, you show your passport. The issue with free

:18:13. > :18:15.movement is we've made a bargain, if you like. We have three to four

:18:16. > :18:20.million jobs linked to our membership of the European Union.

:18:21. > :18:23.We're here in the West Midlands, a great, industrial manufacturing

:18:24. > :18:29.heart land, incredible industries here, not least of the car industry

:18:30. > :18:34.- Are you saying those jobs would go? The bargain we made is because

:18:35. > :18:39.of economic benefits, we think on balance we do far better

:18:40. > :18:42.notwithstanding some of the challenges immigration poses, having

:18:43. > :18:46.access to the single market. The problem that we've got, the package

:18:47. > :18:50.showed if, if we want to stay part of the single market, even if we

:18:51. > :18:54.leave, the model would probably be Norway. So Norway isn't a member of

:18:55. > :18:57.the European Union, but it's part of that big free trading zone. They've

:18:58. > :19:01.had to accept the free movement that goes with that. Now I'm not saying

:19:02. > :19:05.that if we weren't part of the single market we would not be able

:19:06. > :19:08.to trade with Europe. Maybe there's some Remain people who do, I don't

:19:09. > :19:13.claim that. The question is on what terms. When we go and buy things

:19:14. > :19:19.from these guys we don't pay the tariff and vice versa. To make that

:19:20. > :19:24.real for people, 28% of the produce on High Street shop shelves, from

:19:25. > :19:28.cheese, chocolate, wine and healthier things, they come here

:19:29. > :19:32.from the EU. We will get onto the economy. We won't pay the tariff. We

:19:33. > :19:37.are coming to that. What can you tell us for sure when it comes to

:19:38. > :19:41.wages and migration? There was a Bank of England report that looked

:19:42. > :19:46.at this. It found there was an impact of immigration on suppressing

:19:47. > :19:49.wages in some sectors, particularly in semi-skilled and unskilled

:19:50. > :19:54.sectors but it was fairly small. A 10% increase in immigration, which

:19:55. > :19:58.is quite a lot would lead to a 2% drop in wages in those worst

:19:59. > :20:02.affected sectors. Fairly limited, though there is an impact. The other

:20:03. > :20:05.thing to bear in mind, you have to put that into the broader context of

:20:06. > :20:09.what might happen to the whole economy and the effect that might

:20:10. > :20:12.have on wages as well if we chose to lever the EU. What's happening

:20:13. > :20:19.online? Loads coming through already. The last ten minutes of the

:20:20. > :20:21.show are yours, hashtag Newsbeat. Immigration has divided people on

:20:22. > :20:25.the floor. It's the same on social media. Matthew, "The immigration

:20:26. > :20:31.issue isn't racist. A bus can only fit so many people in. It works the

:20:32. > :20:40.same with the island we're on." Suzanne says:

:20:41. > :20:55.Curtis picks up on something: What about jobs, wages, getting a

:20:56. > :20:59.mortgage, how could all of that change once we've got a result at

:21:00. > :21:04.the end of next week? Belinda is confuse. . She got in touch and

:21:05. > :21:09.said, "If we leave the EU, is it true we face ten years of economic

:21:10. > :21:13.uncertainty? Loads to talk about then.

:21:14. > :21:18.There are big figures being knocked around by both the In and Out

:21:19. > :21:22.campaign. The Out campaign is mentioning this one, the rough

:21:23. > :21:26.amount they say the UK gives the EU each week in membership fees, money

:21:27. > :21:31.they say would be better spents on our NHS. But there's a couple of

:21:32. > :21:36.details that we should clear up. First of all, things to a deal,

:21:37. > :21:42.signed in 1984, the UK never actually pays that amount. It's

:21:43. > :21:49.reduced before going anywhere. So around 276 million leaves our

:21:50. > :21:53.treasury's pocket. Then we get money back for farming, grants to

:21:54. > :21:59.universities, research centres and engineering institutions. The actual

:22:00. > :22:03.figure the UK gives to the EU each week is closer to ?161 million.

:22:04. > :22:10.Still a lot of cash, but the Remain camp says you should think of it as

:22:11. > :22:13.entry fee into a club, where the free drinks are worth more than the

:22:14. > :22:19.money you paid to get in. More on that in a Sebbing. First -- sec. The

:22:20. > :22:24.Remain camp have figures that need explaining to. They claim families

:22:25. > :22:30.would be ?4,300 worse off if the UK left the EU. Despite using this line

:22:31. > :22:33.a lot, in truth it's a guess. The prediction that they don't even

:22:34. > :22:38.think will happen for another 15 years and even if it did, they've

:22:39. > :22:42.exaggerated their own figures. So now we've dealt with those, let's

:22:43. > :22:46.look at trade. About half the UK's imports and exports are done with

:22:47. > :22:50.other EU countries, allowing businesses to avoid paying taxes,

:22:51. > :22:55.when they buy and sell abroad, like duty free. The Remain camp claim

:22:56. > :22:59.three million jobs are linked to trade with the EU. The Leave camp

:23:00. > :23:02.say they won't be under threat because the UK could negotiate

:23:03. > :23:05.better deals on its own. In truth it's difficult to say what the

:23:06. > :23:10.financial impact of the UK leaving the EU would be. It's all based on

:23:11. > :23:14.guess work. While economists generally say the EU membership has

:23:15. > :23:17.benefitted the UK, it affects different people and businesses in

:23:18. > :23:26.different ways. So while some regions and sectors may gain, others

:23:27. > :23:33.may lose ou. -- out. We are live on Radio 1, one

:23:34. > :23:37.Extra and the News Channel. Next we're talking about the economy.

:23:38. > :23:42.What's your name? I'm Harris, I'm from London. I just wanted to talk

:23:43. > :23:47.about how the US and the EU are currently negotiating a huge trade

:23:48. > :23:51.deal and if we were to leave the EU, we would be at a separate part of

:23:52. > :23:55.the table looking in. I wanted to know how you think that we could

:23:56. > :23:59.renegotiate a deal with the US when they already have one of the most

:24:00. > :24:04.lucrative deals on the table with the EU? Let's put that to Dominic

:24:05. > :24:07.Raab. One of the golden opportunities of being outside the

:24:08. > :24:11.EU is to be freed up to trade more energy etically on a global scale

:24:12. > :24:15.with the States, North America, from Asia to Latin America. Those are the

:24:16. > :24:20.growth markets of the future. The reason I think that Britain will be

:24:21. > :24:24.better at free trade deals than the EU is because it's not ham strung by

:24:25. > :24:27.the protectionism and special interests of 28. The EU has not

:24:28. > :24:31.signed that deal with the US. It is in the mud. It was supposed to be

:24:32. > :24:36.done under Obama. It's stalled. In fact the EU hasn't signed, sealed

:24:37. > :24:38.and delivered a free trade deal with an economy any bigger than South

:24:39. > :24:45.Korea, half the size of Britain's economy. If you lock at small and

:24:46. > :24:49.mid-ranking economies, Switzerland, South Korea, Chile, Singapore, they

:24:50. > :24:53.have a much better record of signing free trade deals and the quality of

:24:54. > :24:59.them is better. When the EU signs free trade deals, in the majority of

:25:00. > :25:03.cases, UK export growth goes down. When those other economies,

:25:04. > :25:06.Singapore, South Korea, Switzerland, sign free trade deals, in the

:25:07. > :25:11.majority of cases their growth in exports goes up. Not only is the EU

:25:12. > :25:18.Laosy at negotiating them, but the nature of the deals is poor. The

:25:19. > :25:21.source is Michael Burridge who researches for Civitas. This is

:25:22. > :25:26.about whether or not the UK would have more clout as part of a market

:25:27. > :25:29.of 500 million people or as a country with 65 million. I don't

:25:30. > :25:32.like confessing this to you and in front of such a young audience, but

:25:33. > :25:35.size isn't everything. LAUGHTER

:25:36. > :25:40.What really matters is the nature of your offer. The problem is for the

:25:41. > :25:46.EU is its size and scale bogs it down. It has all the special

:25:47. > :25:48.interests of 28 countries, particularly the French

:25:49. > :25:53.protectionism from their farmers. Latin America, for example, the

:25:54. > :25:58.trade block there, that on the Government's estimate to stay in the

:25:59. > :26:02.EU, it would benefit the British economy by 2. ?2.5 billion a year,

:26:03. > :26:05.yust being paralysed by special interests in the UK. We're getting

:26:06. > :26:11.into a lot of detail now. Do you agree, size isn't everything? Look,

:26:12. > :26:15.the first thing to reflect on for viewers and everyone here, I

:26:16. > :26:21.suppose, is the EU itself is our biggest cut my. 44% of our --

:26:22. > :26:25.customer. 44% of exports goes to them. If you look at the number of

:26:26. > :26:29.exports from the 27 member states to us it's about 5%. They are a far

:26:30. > :26:33.bigger customer to us than we are customer to them, which is why we

:26:34. > :26:38.massively benefit from being able to trade freely with them. In terms of

:26:39. > :26:41.the rest of the world, the EU has agreements with 50 other economies

:26:42. > :26:48.outside the European Union. There's another six coming down the track.

:26:49. > :26:51.For example, we've got trade agreements with Jamaica, Pakistan,

:26:52. > :26:56.Malaysia, Japan is being negotiated at the moment. I'm not saying that

:26:57. > :27:01.if we came out we wouldn't negotiate those things, but the question is on

:27:02. > :27:03.what terms. Dom talked about China. When I was the Shadow Business

:27:04. > :27:07.Secretary for the Labour Party in the last five years, I wasn't on a

:27:08. > :27:12.trade mission to Beijing. I can tell you the Chinese government told me,

:27:13. > :27:16.you have much more negotiation clout with us when you're sitting on one

:27:17. > :27:19.half of the table with half a billion other people negotiating

:27:20. > :27:23.with China and our 1. 3 billion people, than if you were in the

:27:24. > :27:26.corner on your own with your 65 million people. That's what they

:27:27. > :27:30.told me. If you say look at the Swiss deal. Dominic was talking

:27:31. > :27:40.about how the Swiss have reached all these amazing deals. Their deal with

:27:41. > :27:44.China is not a good deal. If you're talking about size, I'd say quality

:27:45. > :27:49.is pretty important in this. If you're going to have a deal, let it

:27:50. > :27:52.deliver for you. What the Swiss have done they've given full access to

:27:53. > :27:56.the Chinese, almost immediately to their markets and they don't get the

:27:57. > :27:58.same back. Size isn't everything, quality is the most important. Over

:27:59. > :28:03.to you. We're talking about economies. We seem to forget about

:28:04. > :28:07.the family. Families are small economies. That's how they survive.

:28:08. > :28:11.Certain amount of income, certain amount of expenditure. It is

:28:12. > :28:16.laughable that the Remain campaign seems to be in favour, well so they

:28:17. > :28:20.suggest, in favour of the British working class, when as we discussed

:28:21. > :28:23.earlier, the expression of wages is a very real fact and does affect

:28:24. > :28:28.people. Is that something you've experienced? Personally, yes. Can

:28:29. > :28:34.you tell us? No, I won't go into personal circumstances with people.

:28:35. > :28:38.In terms of knowing people who have lost out orn jobs because of

:28:39. > :28:42.undercutting, especially, dare I say it, eastern European immigration, it

:28:43. > :28:45.does happen. It's very easy for the London syndrome, which many of our

:28:46. > :28:49.political class can sit back in their chairs and say this doesn't

:28:50. > :28:51.happen. It does happen. Not only does it happen, but it happens on a

:28:52. > :28:55.large scale. We're not allowed to talk about it. We can talk about it

:28:56. > :29:05.now. What type of jobs. Don't give us names. Low skilled jobs. This has

:29:06. > :29:08.been allowed on the basis that the lib-lab conhas told everyone that

:29:09. > :29:12.British people, especially young British people, I grew up being told

:29:13. > :29:16.this, are lazy. We are not lazy. I have done jobs in factories. I

:29:17. > :29:21.worked in McDonald's and we can do just as much. To predict that the

:29:22. > :29:25.entire British youth are worthless to the jobs that they have is

:29:26. > :29:30.absolutely laughable. Does anyone here think British people are lazy,

:29:31. > :29:35.young British people? No, of course they're not. I think what's actually

:29:36. > :29:38.astonishing about this debate is to hear people on the Leave side

:29:39. > :29:42.especially representative of this current Government implying that the

:29:43. > :29:45.main problem facing our economy is the EU, the common market,

:29:46. > :29:49.immigration. What is putting pressure on public services is that

:29:50. > :29:52.the first thing this Government did when it got into office was cut the

:29:53. > :29:56.buildings schools of the future programme and get rid of thousands

:29:57. > :30:00.of school places. After flogging off some of the hospitals to Richard

:30:01. > :30:03.Branson, decided junior doctors weren't worthy of being treated

:30:04. > :30:06.properly. It failed to build any houses. Now it's faced up to the

:30:07. > :30:12.fact there might be a housing crisis. It's building aFordable

:30:13. > :30:15.starter homes, so-called affordable, that only 2% of the people on their

:30:16. > :30:18.national living wage can afford. We've heard a real-life example -

:30:19. > :30:23.There's a reason that they're passing the buck. There's a reason

:30:24. > :30:26.that Nigel Farage, Michael Gove want you to believe that the problem is

:30:27. > :30:29.in Brussels. It's not in Brussels. It's in Westminster. It's in ten

:30:30. > :30:32.Downing Street. What do you think when you hear

:30:33. > :30:38.stories like the one we just heard about people's wages being affected?

:30:39. > :30:52.What you think when you hear real life that samples? Hundreds of

:30:53. > :30:58.people have been replaced with zero hour contracts. It is nothing to do

:30:59. > :31:04.with immigration. It is the economic strategy pursued by this government

:31:05. > :31:09.for the last five years. I am Chloe, I am from Northern Ireland and I am

:31:10. > :31:26.a farmer. If we leave the EU, I know that 97% of our lamp produce goes to

:31:27. > :31:32.the EU. -- lamb. Can you still guarantee a fair price? I cannot fix

:31:33. > :31:36.a price, but it goes back to the trading relationship with the EU if

:31:37. > :31:41.we come back. Lots of people talked about the relationship, the Swiss

:31:42. > :31:45.option, Norwegian option, the UK option is bigger than all of those

:31:46. > :31:50.combined, we are the fifth biggest economy. The European firms sell to

:31:51. > :31:55.us whether it is car manufacturers or farmers, ?16 billion worth of

:31:56. > :32:00.goods and services. There is clearly a strong mutual interest, there is a

:32:01. > :32:03.stronger interest on their side in not correcting the trade barriers

:32:04. > :32:08.you are worried about. Those suggesting they would ask Emma. I

:32:09. > :32:12.also think if rational self interest did not win the day and the

:32:13. > :32:20.politicians in the EU decided to play addictive it, they would face

:32:21. > :32:25.severe criticism. The leading members of the Remain campaign would

:32:26. > :32:29.second see we have a high, ambitious trading relationship with the EU

:32:30. > :32:35.whether we are in or out. Can you make that guarantee? There are no

:32:36. > :32:40.guarantees. There is uncertainty whether we stay in or come out. The

:32:41. > :32:47.point I was making is the head of the CBI, he has said it is

:32:48. > :32:51.inconceivable we would not have a strong, ambitious trading

:32:52. > :32:55.relationship. You have to ask yourself if Brussels would cut its

:32:56. > :33:01.own nose to spite its face, is that the most attractive reason to stay

:33:02. > :33:08.in that political clan. What you are saying is that it will be OK, but

:33:09. > :33:10.the majority of employment in Northern Ireland is from

:33:11. > :33:14.agriculture. We are not talking about England, Scotland or Wales, we

:33:15. > :33:17.are talking about Northern Ireland and I don't think you have been

:33:18. > :33:21.thinking about Northern Ireland in this whole process. The borders or

:33:22. > :33:27.the economy of Northern Ireland at all. I wanted to pick up on what the

:33:28. > :33:31.gentleman in the red shirt was saying a bit earlier. The two things

:33:32. > :33:35.actually, the one thing he stared at the start of the programme,

:33:36. > :33:40.juxtaposing the issues of working-class British people against

:33:41. > :33:44.that of immigrants. I wanted to perhaps take the opportunity to

:33:45. > :33:48.remind the gentleman that a lot of British working class people are of

:33:49. > :33:56.immigrant stock. Secondly, he also talked about this notion of these

:33:57. > :34:00.people in London. I represent a constituency in an inner London

:34:01. > :34:05.borough. In London boroughs have a child poverty rate of 40%. The idea

:34:06. > :34:08.that everyone is having a party and that they have a particular view in

:34:09. > :34:15.London and are out of touch with everyone else is nonsense. This goes

:34:16. > :34:19.to the heart of the tone of the which is we are going through

:34:20. > :34:23.globalisation, it is changing everything. When Dominic and I were

:34:24. > :34:28.at university, correct me if I am wrong, there was no Twitter,

:34:29. > :34:32.Facebook, the world is so different. In this context we are frightening

:34:33. > :34:36.people and offering opportunities, we could turning on ourselves, set

:34:37. > :34:42.up against different groups, it is their fault or actually we can work

:34:43. > :34:44.out whether it is in London, Birmingham, whether you were

:34:45. > :34:55.working-class and middle-class, how do we held a brighter -- how do we

:34:56. > :34:59.build a better Britain? I wasn't just talking about white people. You

:35:00. > :35:07.do not know if I come from an immigrant background. My ancestry is

:35:08. > :35:11.Turkish. In terms of you saying trying to direct it down that route,

:35:12. > :35:14.I think it is exactly what the Remain campaign has been doing

:35:15. > :35:21.within tight situation. At the start of the programme you talked about,

:35:22. > :35:25.you set up this notion of what is happening and the impact of

:35:26. > :35:28.immigrants in our labour market against the interests of

:35:29. > :35:32.working-class people. To me, my father was an immigrant to this

:35:33. > :35:36.country and was working class, I am simply saying to you I don't think

:35:37. > :35:40.it helps to talk in that way, because in the end we can't blame

:35:41. > :35:43.one group of people for one thing, but I am not sure ultimately that

:35:44. > :35:49.that is the way that Britain is going to continue doing well in the

:35:50. > :35:53.future. It is common sense in a business mind that if you have more

:35:54. > :35:57.of a product, the product is worth less. It is the same with people

:35:58. > :36:02.power, if you have more people, their worth is less in terms of

:36:03. > :36:06.their ability to work. The money they can get and the money they can

:36:07. > :36:11.give their families, that is common sense. I am not blaming anybody.

:36:12. > :36:15.When you have an open door you cannot control, that is a direct

:36:16. > :36:19.effect upon that circumstance. Does anyone else have concerns when it

:36:20. > :36:29.comes to the economy, buying houses for example? Most of us in the

:36:30. > :36:32.audience are young people, we will be hoping to buy ourselves a house

:36:33. > :36:37.in the next ten years or so and when the house prices are in excess of

:36:38. > :36:45.?200,000, I think it cannot just be blamed on the banks and the Remain

:36:46. > :36:49.campaigners -- on the banks as the main Mac campaigners do. I think it

:36:50. > :36:57.is a simple case of demand and supply. When the supply cannot keep

:36:58. > :37:00.up, then the prices go up. We need immigration controls. We need to

:37:01. > :37:07.control the demand we are faced with and if we do not do that, we will

:37:08. > :37:09.continue to fail to give young people the opportunity to get on the

:37:10. > :37:15.housing ladder and to build themselves a life. I am not looking

:37:16. > :37:19.forward to getting myself into the housing market when I look at house

:37:20. > :37:26.prices as they are now. You are planning to vote Leave? When did you

:37:27. > :37:31.make your mind up? Yes, I made my mind up a year ago when the

:37:32. > :37:35.Conservative government pledged to give us a referendum, I looked into

:37:36. > :37:41.the subject. Back then I was quite cautious and I was four Remain. I

:37:42. > :37:45.did not want to risk anything. As you learn more and more about the

:37:46. > :37:51.nature of the EU and how it wants to become a federal superstate and the

:37:52. > :37:55.corruption that happens in the and the undemocratic nature of that, we

:37:56. > :38:01.cannot vote out the people who make our laws. -- in there. 17% of the

:38:02. > :38:12.laws in this country are given to us from outside will -- outside. We do

:38:13. > :38:19.not have a figure. The House of Commons predicted is about 59%.

:38:20. > :38:24.There may be a short-term period of uncertainty, a short-term period of

:38:25. > :38:29.decline, but I think in the medium to short-term, for ordinary young

:38:30. > :38:37.people in this country, I think we will be much better off if we leave.

:38:38. > :38:40.If British businesses are not strangle by the regulations they are

:38:41. > :38:46.faced with as being members of the EU and if they are given the freedom

:38:47. > :38:49.to be a job without the burden of EU regulation, I think our economy will

:38:50. > :39:00.prosper at a much greater rate than it has done. APPLAUSE

:39:01. > :39:07.My name is Dan, I run a business in Birmingham. We try to win public

:39:08. > :39:11.sector contracts. The gentleman has explained why he wants to leave, I

:39:12. > :39:14.want to remain because there are some risks. There are huge risks

:39:15. > :39:19.when it comes to the single market. I do not think we will get the same

:39:20. > :39:26.deals that we have at the moment. Why don't you believe that? Why

:39:27. > :39:31.would they? If European countries have a doubt in the back of their

:39:32. > :39:36.mind, if we get the same deal, they will think why will the country

:39:37. > :39:41.stay. They want to make it unattractive to other countries so

:39:42. > :39:46.they don't believe. Say we do get the same trade deals, all we have

:39:47. > :39:50.done is take a step away from the table, we don't have influence or

:39:51. > :39:54.power, we lose the decision-making capacity we have at the moment and

:39:55. > :40:00.that is a huge risk to the economy in the future. Big claims about the

:40:01. > :40:04.economy, Alex, what can you tell us? What we know is when it comes to

:40:05. > :40:09.jobs and wages, the big question is whether leaving the EU would be good

:40:10. > :40:16.or bad for the economy. The weight of economic opinion suggests it

:40:17. > :40:20.would be bad for the short term. That is not all economists, but

:40:21. > :40:25.there are some big economic names in there and the Remain campaign had

:40:26. > :40:29.said those names many times. The Leave campaign have said there will

:40:30. > :40:34.be longer term damage in terms of growth. It will come down to what

:40:35. > :40:37.kind of deals we can negotiate and what country would look like in

:40:38. > :40:45.accommodation with other countries post Brexit. Next, what is happening

:40:46. > :40:47.online? It seems people care about what is in their back pocket. Katie

:40:48. > :40:54.sent us this on Facebook: Chris picks up on something that

:40:55. > :41:05.Dominik mentioned: That is maybe once you Alex in a

:41:06. > :41:43.second, but Alex says this: . Would trade agreements be

:41:44. > :41:46.unchanged? No. If we left, we would have to negotiate bad relationship.

:41:47. > :41:49.Of course it may mean we were free from some EU regulations, but what

:41:50. > :41:56.that would look like almost certainly would not be completely

:41:57. > :41:59.unchanged. What is your name? I am Chloe and I live in Birmingham.

:42:00. > :42:03.Myself and many other people on this side of the room of voting Remain

:42:04. > :42:10.because of the fear of the unknown. We do not know what Britain's place

:42:11. > :42:16.in the world will be like if we leave EU. I am tired of the Leave

:42:17. > :42:21.campaign trivialising that. We have never not been in the EU. For us and

:42:22. > :42:25.people of our age in particular, a lot of the older generation are

:42:26. > :42:28.voting in the referendum and are ignoring the security and that is

:42:29. > :42:33.important. And I don't understand why you would risk the deal we have

:42:34. > :42:38.now. What about the language we have here? We hear things like putting a

:42:39. > :42:44.bomb under the economy, a bonfire of workers' rights, do you think that

:42:45. > :42:54.is something to do with it? I think the discourse by vote Leave is not

:42:55. > :42:58.great, it is a lot of finger-pointing and blaming people

:42:59. > :43:02.for problems. I genuinely believe when it comes to security, the

:43:03. > :43:06.threat to Britain nowadays, it is so much bigger than state problems, it

:43:07. > :43:11.is terrorism, global warming, that is nothing to do with any country,

:43:12. > :43:16.Britain cannot deal with that in isolation. The bomb under the

:43:17. > :43:20.economy came from the Remain campaign and not Leave, but putting

:43:21. > :43:27.that aside, I am not telling you there are any risks. But it is risk

:43:28. > :43:31.versus reward. Remain have airbrushed the risks of staying in.

:43:32. > :43:34.We have used unemployment in countries like Greece, the Eurozone

:43:35. > :43:38.crisis is still not being grappled with and Italy with its debt

:43:39. > :43:43.problems, it looks like it will fall into the same rut. You have the

:43:44. > :43:48.chaos on your borders. What you mean by chaos on borders? Look what we

:43:49. > :43:52.are seeing, the referendum is being hailed in June because there is a

:43:53. > :43:56.fear if it went into July or later in the autumn he would have another

:43:57. > :44:00.summer of the migration crisis and that would scare voters even more.

:44:01. > :44:06.That has been a tactical judgment. Are you blaming that on being part

:44:07. > :44:10.of the European Union? There is to be a problem with the freedom of

:44:11. > :44:15.movement roles. Senior Labour figures and members of vote Leave

:44:16. > :44:19.have been pointing out. The EU has lost the will to deal with its own

:44:20. > :44:24.problems and on the risk front, the greater risk is staying in. I also

:44:25. > :44:26.think we should be making more of the positive opportunities of

:44:27. > :44:32.leaving the EU and I will properly come back to that. We will come back

:44:33. > :44:37.to you. APPLAUSE Something that has not been touched

:44:38. > :44:43.on is the special status in the negotiations that take place in

:44:44. > :44:47.February. David Cameron was one of 28 European Union leaders, they have

:44:48. > :44:51.negotiated special status, it is feared the unknown, but Britain

:44:52. > :44:58.already has a good deal, they have opt in for single market, and opt

:44:59. > :45:06.out of the euro, I don't know why you would risk a cushy deal. Why

:45:07. > :45:22.would you risk a cushy deal? I am not really undecided, all the

:45:23. > :45:26.different farmyards, they had vote Leave. The farmers with no more than

:45:27. > :45:32.anyone what was good for them. What do you think? I am not a farmer, I

:45:33. > :45:39.don't doubt if it would be good for farmers. I will Leave. More so the

:45:40. > :45:45.immigration side of it. I think it should be controlled, but not with a

:45:46. > :45:48.points system. I don't see why I think it is right for people to turn

:45:49. > :45:52.around and save people from a bad background cannot come over and

:45:53. > :45:59.better their lives. Britain's place in the world. I am Freddie from

:46:00. > :46:05.Greater London. Picking up on the Lady's point, he says that David

:46:06. > :46:10.Cameron has negotiated. You saw with Netherlands and France, they both

:46:11. > :46:13.out rightly said no and they were completely ignored and the EU

:46:14. > :46:21.constitution was in fermented anyway. I want to ask Chuka Umunna a

:46:22. > :46:26.question. The idea of representing the working class, we all know that

:46:27. > :46:29.Jeremy Corbyn is a closet Eurosceptic, but how can you appeal

:46:30. > :46:34.to all the fisheries and the coastal people who have lost their

:46:35. > :46:38.businesses? They were paid to burn their own boats and flow away their

:46:39. > :46:43.livelihoods because the EU wanted to share our waters. This theme of

:46:44. > :46:49.labour and the working class keeps on coming up again and again. First

:46:50. > :46:54.ball, the Labour Party seeks to represent everybody of all different

:46:55. > :46:59.backgrounds. That is what it was set up to do, the People's party. I do

:47:00. > :47:03.not agree with your analysis. If you look at a lot of seaside towns and I

:47:04. > :47:09.have visited a lot of them during my time as a Shadow Business Secretary.

:47:10. > :47:13.What you see there is quite a lot of industries which have moved on. They

:47:14. > :47:18.face more international competition. I will level with you, governments

:47:19. > :47:21.of all put physical persuasions have made mistakes here in terms of

:47:22. > :47:26.different industries and different communities. We have not given them

:47:27. > :47:30.the tools locally to adapt to the changing circumstances, but we have

:47:31. > :47:34.not implemented proper industrial strategies so if industries fall

:47:35. > :47:41.away, I am not saying this about fishing, that you enable new

:47:42. > :47:44.industries to grow up there. That is a domestic issue as opposed to one

:47:45. > :47:49.for the European Union. Just the gentleman about the farmers. I do

:47:50. > :47:53.not represent a farming community, but among the farmers I have spoken

:47:54. > :47:57.to going around the country, they do want us to stay in. They believe on

:47:58. > :48:01.balance that is the right thing. The majority of them do, the National

:48:02. > :48:05.farmers union, there was a lot of debate as to what they would do.

:48:06. > :48:09.They formed a position for us to stay in the European Union. The

:48:10. > :48:13.final thing I wanted to say something on, the euro in this

:48:14. > :48:21.migration, and is, we are not part of the Euro. -- migration crisis.

:48:22. > :48:29.And secondly in terms of the migration crisis, it should be

:48:30. > :48:33.referred to, what cause that to happen was middle east instability,

:48:34. > :48:37.Syria in particular and we have growing instability in Africa. Those

:48:38. > :48:41.things will persist if we leave the EU. It is cross-border and refugees

:48:42. > :48:45.who do come in from Syria do not have the same rights to move around

:48:46. > :48:49.freely in the European Union, but ultimately we will only be able to

:48:50. > :48:53.deal with that problem which is global and cross-border if we work

:48:54. > :49:00.with our European counterparts. Will people be able to come here from

:49:01. > :49:04.Turkey? No. The remains side have been accused of this project fear

:49:05. > :49:08.and one of the key scared stories that have been put out by the Leave

:49:09. > :49:15.campaigners, from Nigel Farage to Michael Gove, is that Turkey is

:49:16. > :49:18.joining very soon. Even Boris Johnson has said that Turkey joining

:49:19. > :49:23.the European Union is simply not on the cards. In terms of the deal they

:49:24. > :49:28.have done, it does not extend to the UK. We are not part of the Schengen

:49:29. > :49:33.passport free zone. If you want to know the truth of that, go on the

:49:34. > :49:38.BBC fact checker. That will give you the truth story. A shout out for you

:49:39. > :49:46.there, that will give you the true story on Turkey. That is the biggest

:49:47. > :49:50.scare story by Leave. I am Harriet, I am 22 and from south-west England.

:49:51. > :49:54.I would like to talk about Britain's place in the world. Our military and

:49:55. > :50:00.industrial strength is brilliant at the moment now we are in the EU.

:50:01. > :50:08.Scotland will leave us if we exit the EU, is that a good thing? I

:50:09. > :50:16.think that Scotland will stay. But they will leave. You have the

:50:17. > :50:19.foresight of a soothsayer. Polls say that Scots do not think they should

:50:20. > :50:24.have a second referendum, that is not the same as what the SNP are

:50:25. > :50:30.saying. I want Britain to be a global, out looking player. Our

:50:31. > :50:35.military security is protected by Nato, not the EU. There are

:50:36. > :50:39.examples, I used to work in a business, I worked in the Foreign

:50:40. > :50:43.Office, I worked means that a criminal court, the WTO, I made a

:50:44. > :50:47.passionate case the free trade, good for jobs, that is a good example

:50:48. > :50:54.where we gave up our vote and we are held back by that special interest

:50:55. > :50:57.of the EU. That is a good example of where we can be a far more energetic

:50:58. > :51:01.leader and global player and something that makes a difference

:51:02. > :51:05.not just a Britain and the global economy, but also the very poorest

:51:06. > :51:09.countries in the world who will only did themselves out of the poverty

:51:10. > :51:13.trap if they can trade more freely. That is something Britain can

:51:14. > :51:19.achieve outside the EU. Alex, what can you tell us about the UK, how

:51:20. > :51:30.powerful would it be outside of BT you? If is an unknown. -- outside of

:51:31. > :51:34.the EU? The UK is a member of other major national bodies as well, you

:51:35. > :51:39.cannot say that its global status hangs purely on the European Union,

:51:40. > :51:42.warnings from both sides about what that impact may be. Just worth

:51:43. > :51:46.mentioning one thing for some clarification on the security

:51:47. > :51:50.measures which we have had quite a lot of chat about. The Schengen zone

:51:51. > :51:55.is very confusing, but there is a section of the EU where you can move

:51:56. > :52:00.around without passports. The UK is not in it, you have to show a

:52:01. > :52:05.passport, even from within the EU, but they are not always subject to

:52:06. > :52:11.the same detailed security checks as they are from outside the EU. The

:52:12. > :52:13.audience at home are divided when it comes to the importance of the EU.

:52:14. > :52:18.James says: . On the other side you have people

:52:19. > :52:51.like . What about the peace deal with

:52:52. > :53:02.Northern Ireland? I don't think the peace deal row lies on Northern

:53:03. > :53:06.Ireland -- the peace deal relies on the EU at all. I don't think anyone

:53:07. > :53:11.can say we will go back to the troubles. I think that goes into

:53:12. > :53:17.scaremongering. We believe it there. Other countries have now suggested

:53:18. > :53:22.an EU referendum, how will it affect us if other stable countries leave

:53:23. > :53:27.but we remain? She is saying there will be other referendums? How will

:53:28. > :53:32.it affect us if other countries leave and we stay? I don't think it

:53:33. > :53:36.will be a good thing. What the European Union does is bind together

:53:37. > :53:42.in the main pretty advanced economies who are facing big, global

:53:43. > :53:44.challenges and when we face instability and big global

:53:45. > :53:48.challenges, historically we have sometimes ended up in conflict, but

:53:49. > :53:54.one of the good things is it has brought us together and kept us

:53:55. > :53:59.interconnected and almost made us sort out those issues together. You

:54:00. > :54:04.can either go down the Donald Trump Avenue and seek to look to who you

:54:05. > :54:07.can blame whether that is people, individuals or other countries. Are

:54:08. > :54:18.you saying that is what the Leave camp -- campaign is doing? The Leave

:54:19. > :54:22.campaign can speak for themselves. But I think that the EU shares our

:54:23. > :54:27.values, why in the current context of massive change in the world would

:54:28. > :54:36.we not do that. It is better than blaming other people. I am Tom and

:54:37. > :54:44.I'm 23. On the 7th of June, a criminal was released and you said

:54:45. > :54:49.UK families are at risk as being part of the EU. Are you saying

:54:50. > :54:53.therefore that I am less at risk walking down the street past a UK

:54:54. > :55:02.murderer than I am walking down the street pastor murderer from the EU?

:55:03. > :55:10.APPLAUSE -- walking past a murderer from the

:55:11. > :55:14.EU? No, you are at the same risk, but let's do something to reduce the

:55:15. > :55:18.number of murderers in our country. When it comes to stopping people

:55:19. > :55:22.from coming to this country we can only do it if they represent a

:55:23. > :55:29.threat to our national security. As a matter of EU law, those make a big

:55:30. > :55:32.difference. We are importing critical risk, but the EU is tying

:55:33. > :55:40.our hands in terms of dealing with it. That is a security dividends

:55:41. > :55:46.that we gain in coming out. A report from TUSC, they can look ten years

:55:47. > :55:52.into their past and they could represent a future threat as well as

:55:53. > :55:57.a past one. The money that we could use for the NHS, is there any

:55:58. > :56:00.guarantee that it will be spent on the NHS? We have said the net amount

:56:01. > :56:06.of money that we get back, of that we would spend... We think 100

:56:07. > :56:12.million of that could go towards the NHS. Would it ease pressure on the

:56:13. > :56:19.NHS if we left? Look at the people making this argument, Michael Gove

:56:20. > :56:21.shut down a load of school rebuilding in my constituency, Iain

:56:22. > :56:26.Duncan Smith has taken away educational maintenance allowance

:56:27. > :56:30.and all of these people are basically cutting funding to the NHS

:56:31. > :56:34.and they are telling you if we vote to leave we will throw all this

:56:35. > :56:37.money at public services? These people have no credibility at all

:56:38. > :56:43.when it comes to saying they will spend money on public services, they

:56:44. > :56:47.never have done. APPLAUSE On the NHS, anything you can tell us

:56:48. > :56:52.and anything else you have heard tonight? This point about public

:56:53. > :56:57.services. If you take the net contribution each week, you are left

:56:58. > :57:01.with ?170 million when you get all the money back from the EU. ?100

:57:02. > :57:07.million on the NHS does not leave much for anything else. The leave

:57:08. > :57:10.campaign is not the government as Dominik said, they cannot make

:57:11. > :57:14.future pledges or promises, they can make suggestions about what may be

:57:15. > :57:18.done with this money and the bigger point is anything we get back from

:57:19. > :57:24.the EU, we would again have to put that in the context of the bigger

:57:25. > :57:31.impact that it might have on the economy if we leave. The campaign is

:57:32. > :57:33.an absolute farce, I am not voting. I am not sure who James is talking

:57:34. > :57:40.about there. Let's leave with a note from

:57:41. > :57:54.Victoria: . She has not told us now, we have

:57:55. > :57:58.tweeted her back and she is staying quiet! You are very welcome. Some

:57:59. > :58:01.wrapping up comments from both of you from what you have heard to

:58:02. > :58:06.night. Why should people vote to leave? You should be a master of

:58:07. > :58:11.your own destiny, take control of your laws, your money and your

:58:12. > :58:14.borders. Overall, the future direction of this country for you

:58:15. > :58:19.and your families and the next generation. I do not buy this

:58:20. > :58:24.talking down British influence in the EU. Nine times out of ten we are

:58:25. > :58:31.on the winning side when there are votes in the European Union. If you

:58:32. > :58:35.might to beat the big challenges -- if you want to beat the big

:58:36. > :58:38.challenges, climate change, economies making goods the people,

:58:39. > :58:41.we are stronger working with others to deliver the goods that people

:58:42. > :58:47.working at home rather than standing in the corner on our own shouting.

:58:48. > :58:52.Where can people go to reality check themselves? Our website has

:58:53. > :58:57.information on everything you have heard tonight. If you are still

:58:58. > :59:01.unsure of the facts, get online and take a look. A big thank you to the

:59:02. > :59:13.guys with us here in Birmingham and to all of you for your tweets, texts

:59:14. > :59:18.and e-mails. We have plenty of fact list on our websites to help you

:59:19. > :59:21.make a choice. Have a good night. APPLAUSE