:00:02. > :00:10.advertise for others. I love working here and I am happy to come on your
:00:10. > :00:14.programme any time. Tonight on Newsnight Scotland:
:00:14. > :00:19.Reshuffle at Holyrood. And selection struggles in Falkirk.
:00:19. > :00:22.What is Labour up to this summer? And tighter regulations for the
:00:22. > :00:29.police? The home affairs select committee think they are needed in
:00:29. > :00:33.England and Wales. What about here? Good evening. Holyrood had risen and
:00:33. > :00:36.many MSPs were already getting off on their holidays. Time to relax?
:00:36. > :00:46.Not for Scottish Labour. Johann Lamont chose Friday as the day to
:00:46. > :00:55.
:00:55. > :01:01.reshuffle her frontbench team. As the main party of opposition at
:01:01. > :01:08.Holyrood, it is Labour's job to hold the Scottish government to account.
:01:08. > :01:18.The fact of the matter is... That is an astonishing response from a First
:01:18. > :01:19.
:01:19. > :01:24.Minister who is to the right of George Osborne. Order. But have
:01:24. > :01:27.events of the last few days made that problematic 's on Friday,
:01:27. > :01:31.Scottish Labour leader Johann Lamont announced a frontbench reshuffle.
:01:31. > :01:36.Nothing unusual in that, but comments made by the MSP who lost
:01:36. > :01:42.out raised a few eyebrows. Johann Lamont is elected as leader.
:01:42. > :01:47.Mackintosh, who unsuccessfully ran against Johann Lamont for the Labour
:01:47. > :01:57.leadership, has found himself on the backbenches. These things happen,
:01:57. > :02:01.but it was the comments he made afterwards which sparked interest.
:02:01. > :02:05.Mr McIntosh expressed his disappointment, and then went on to
:02:05. > :02:12.say, whatever disagreements we may have, we still have huge admiration
:02:12. > :02:20.for Johann. Mr McIntosh's fit of pique has now pretty much blown
:02:20. > :02:30.over. Even so, it is the party which has bigger things to worry about.
:02:30. > :02:31.
:02:31. > :02:37.can talk about reshuffle is all we like. The key thing to address is
:02:37. > :02:43.poverty. It is one thing putting people into jobs, it is another to
:02:43. > :02:48.go to the electorate in 2016 with a coherent policy platform. I think
:02:48. > :02:57.Johann Lamont will no that her energy has to be directed to that
:02:57. > :03:02.aim now. She will be relying on the people she has brought into these
:03:02. > :03:07.jobs to come forward with policies. That is not the only issue on the
:03:07. > :03:10.party's plate. In Falkirk, Labour needs to find a new candidate for
:03:10. > :03:14.the next Westminster election. But the party has had to take control of
:03:14. > :03:19.the selection process after it said evidence of unions packing local
:03:19. > :03:23.membership lists was uncovered. The Unite union has now accused Labour
:03:23. > :03:26.of a smear campaign and has threatened legal action. One local
:03:26. > :03:35.long serving politician is worried about the damage it is doing to his
:03:35. > :03:41.party. I am angry. Firstly, you are indicating to the local party in
:03:41. > :03:48.Glasgow that there are problems here. Secondly, I want the Labour
:03:48. > :03:55.Party to win elections. But what do we tell these people who are going
:03:55. > :04:02.to be voting? How does it appear to the electorate if we carry on like
:04:02. > :04:08.this before the selection process has not even been out? Here is the
:04:08. > :04:13.reason Labour needs a new candidate in Falkirk. A few quick words.
:04:13. > :04:16.Clearly, it is a mark of personal shame. Eric Joyce was thrown out of
:04:16. > :04:21.the party following his conviction for assault in the House of Commons
:04:21. > :04:26.bar, but even he thinks Labour's problems in the area will blow over.
:04:26. > :04:36.Once it has been dealt with, it will be fine. People will understand that
:04:36. > :04:38.there has been a hook up, and it is past. At the moment, what has
:04:38. > :04:48.occurred in the last year does damage to know one but the Labour
:04:48. > :04:49.
:04:49. > :04:55.Party. But will that sentiment be enough to help Labour? Whether it
:04:55. > :05:03.distances is itself from Unite or whether it tries to paper over the
:05:04. > :05:06.cracks, someone will still say there is something deeply wrong in the
:05:06. > :05:11.relationship between trade unions and labour. Miliband has not
:05:11. > :05:18.addressed it. This was bound to happen. It was an unexploded bomb
:05:18. > :05:22.that has gone off in Falkirk. some food for thought, as MSPs,
:05:22. > :05:24.labour and otherwise, headed off for their summer break at the end of
:05:24. > :05:27.last week. I am joined now from Edinburgh by
:05:27. > :05:30.the former Labour adviser Simon Pia, who worked closely with Iain Gray
:05:30. > :05:40.during the 2011 Holyrood election, and by the Daily Record's political
:05:40. > :05:44.
:05:44. > :05:49.editor, David Clegg. Simon, let's look at this on a UK
:05:49. > :05:55.scale for Labour. How important is this battle of Falkirk for Ed Balls
:05:55. > :06:05.as he seems to fight the Unite union? I think you mean Ed Miliband.
:06:05. > :06:05.
:06:05. > :06:09.Yes! Look, it is a long-running tension. I am sure David is aware
:06:09. > :06:17.and will tell the journalistic lobby that Unite played a key role. It was
:06:17. > :06:21.not so much in supporting Ed Miliband on stopping David. I
:06:21. > :06:25.remember being at that conference, and it was about sticking one up to
:06:25. > :06:30.the Blairites. This tension has not gone away. Two different wings of
:06:30. > :06:36.the party. All parties have these selection problems. What is unique
:06:36. > :06:40.about Labour is that it has affiliate 's, and the massive
:06:40. > :06:44.affiliate are the unions, who are the paymasters of the party. They
:06:44. > :06:49.represent 6 million people. There are bankers who pay roll the
:06:49. > :06:53.Conservative Party, but the media really focus on the union barons. It
:06:53. > :06:58.is a story that has run for decades. It does not reflect well on Labour
:06:58. > :07:06.when it comes to being viewed as a modern, 21st century party.
:07:06. > :07:10.Personally, I think Labour has to change its procedures. I have been a
:07:10. > :07:18.long-term exponent of primary is. A peoples party should not be afraid
:07:18. > :07:24.of letting the people have their say on these matters. John Smith changed
:07:24. > :07:30.the structure of the Labour Party in 1993 with one member, one vote.
:07:30. > :07:36.if you look at the election process both for Johann Lamont and four Ed
:07:36. > :07:40.Miliband, the electoral college and the unions have a percentage, and
:07:40. > :07:44.both of the unions working on getting Ed Miliband. They also got
:07:44. > :07:50.Johann Lamont. Ken Mackintosh got more of the one member votes for the
:07:50. > :07:57.Scottish Labour leadership election. How do you solve this dilemma? They
:07:57. > :08:01.are the paymasters. The next general election, Ed Miliband will be
:08:01. > :08:05.relying on Unite and the other unions giving them money. David, you
:08:05. > :08:10.and your paper have been following the Battle of Falkirk closely. It
:08:10. > :08:14.seems like it has been a nasty battle. It has certainly been
:08:14. > :08:18.unseemly to watch. As Simon said, the union trying to determine a
:08:18. > :08:23.Labour candidate is not a new thing. But Labour have stamped down on this
:08:23. > :08:28.one and said it is not going to happen, and that has infuriated Len
:08:28. > :08:31.McCluskey, the Unite general secretary. It has not been a bad
:08:31. > :08:36.thing for Ed Miliband to be seen as taking on his union paymasters. As
:08:36. > :08:40.we have said, the unions are basically responsible for him being
:08:40. > :08:45.the Labour leader, so for him to say, you will not get it all your
:08:45. > :08:51.own way, is possibly useful for him in a political situation. It is also
:08:51. > :08:54.more problematic for Johanna Lamont, who was also basically
:08:54. > :08:59.elected by the unions. She got the support of the parliamentarians in
:08:59. > :09:03.the Labour Party, but not the members. Ken Mackintosh got almost
:09:03. > :09:11.half the votes of the Labour Party members in Scotland in that
:09:11. > :09:16.leadership election. So is she going to take on the unions as well?
:09:16. > :09:21.almost being depicted as class war. Unite want more trade unionist in
:09:21. > :09:25.parliament, more ordinary people, as they say. They don't want another
:09:25. > :09:31.Oxbridge adviser parachuted into a safe seat. That is a legitimate
:09:31. > :09:35.position to take. It is accepted that there was a problem with the
:09:35. > :09:39.political class now that starts off as a researcher who becomes a
:09:39. > :09:43.politician without knowing anything about the real world. If the trade
:09:43. > :09:50.unions want to put more politicians in, they can do that, but they have
:09:50. > :09:52.to do it in a credible way. The problem with Falkirk is that there
:09:52. > :10:01.have been allegations about behaviour that is not acceptable,
:10:01. > :10:06.and accepting -- attempting to exert undue influence. Eric Joyce seemed
:10:06. > :10:11.to give the impression that it would all blow over. How do you think it
:10:11. > :10:14.will resolve itself? I think it will blow over. I think an accommodation
:10:14. > :10:19.will be reached with the unions before the general election. If you
:10:19. > :10:24.were a conspiracy theorist, you might say that Len McCluskey might
:10:24. > :10:33.be saying, I will let Ed Miliband have a few battles with me. But the
:10:33. > :10:37.unions do want to maintain their influence on the party. A lot of the
:10:37. > :10:44.people that the unions put forward, you often get Tory commentators
:10:44. > :10:49.saying they want more real people. You will see a call for more
:10:49. > :10:55.working-class Labour MPs. But what you get is union lackeys and people
:10:55. > :11:00.coming through the union process who have not really worked on front-line
:11:00. > :11:08.jobs. They are the equivalent of special advisers. Let's turn our
:11:08. > :11:11.attention to the reshuffle on Friday. Johann Lamont reshuffled the
:11:11. > :11:21.front bench. I asked Cathy Jamieson yesterday if there was civil war in
:11:21. > :11:21.
:11:21. > :11:31.Scottish Labour. She said there is not. Certainly Ken Macintosh who has
:11:31. > :11:34.
:11:34. > :11:36.been replaced by Ian Gray is unhappy. He talked about being
:11:37. > :11:43.unhappy and disagreeing with Johann Lamont about the direction of the
:11:43. > :11:48.party. I pressed him on what is this agreement are and he did not really
:11:48. > :11:52.answer me on that. I am led to believe the two issues are due to
:11:52. > :12:01.her something for nothing is each where she questioned universal
:12:02. > :12:05.benefits in Scotland. People close to Ken Macintosh today have told me
:12:05. > :12:09.that he was the finance spokesman and was not aware that that speech
:12:09. > :12:15.was going to be made until it happened. I can understand why they
:12:15. > :12:25.would not be happy with that. There seems to be a personality clash also
:12:25. > :12:35.there. Did Johann Lamont not rate Ken Macintosh? You would need to ask
:12:35. > :12:38.
:12:38. > :12:41.Johann Lamont that. It was probably surprising he has made it as long as
:12:41. > :12:46.this but that is because Johann the MOD has probably delayed hurry
:12:46. > :12:54.shuffle. If you had asked anyone at Holyrood and the Labour Party who
:12:55. > :13:01.would be first to be reshuffled, they would have said Ken Macintosh.
:13:01. > :13:05.It comes down to a personality clash or personality issues. More often
:13:05. > :13:12.than not in politics these things count for more than the actual
:13:12. > :13:18.ideology and we live and are feeling neither logical age. Your colleague
:13:18. > :13:23.is back on the front-line, Iain Gray. While he perform well?
:13:23. > :13:26.Macintosh has done well on Newsnight but he is a bit of an enigma. If he
:13:26. > :13:31.had performed well that wouldn't have been a problem for Johann
:13:31. > :13:36.Lamont, certainly not in terms of personality. I think Iain Gray will
:13:37. > :13:46.do very well. And I am sure David Clegg will agree. With his forensic
:13:47. > :13:50.
:13:50. > :13:54.detail that will help him a lot. Unit will focus on John Swinney and
:13:54. > :13:59.he will. The Ayes and cross the keys and he has a closer relationship
:13:59. > :14:04.with Alistair Darling, and the John Swinney will know that he will be in
:14:04. > :14:08.for a forensic examination. This is where the SNP are weakest. It has
:14:08. > :14:13.been a bad year for them explaining what has happened in terms of
:14:13. > :14:20.currency and welfare. You could list a bout a dozen items. The Breivik,
:14:20. > :14:23.David, how well will Iain Gray do? He did not have the charisma
:14:23. > :14:29.required for the leader of the Labour Party, but I think he will
:14:30. > :14:35.take on John Swinney quite well. There is a similar story with John
:14:35. > :14:41.Swinney who was unimpressive at -- unimpressive as SNP leader but he
:14:41. > :14:44.has done a very good job as Finance Secretary. He will wake up tomorrow
:14:44. > :14:51.morning slightly more uneasy knowing that he will have to take on Iain
:14:51. > :14:54.Gray as opposed to Ken Macintosh. Thank you both for joining me.
:14:54. > :14:59.Integrity should be at the heart of policing but a string of allegations
:14:59. > :15:02.south of the border has put that into question. To clamp down on
:15:02. > :15:06.corruption MPs have suggested pension should be docked to prevent
:15:06. > :15:10.officers from the tiling before being disciplined. This would only
:15:10. > :15:18.apply in England and Wales that would a system like that help the
:15:18. > :15:23.Scottish police? We will be judged by the
:15:23. > :15:26.effectiveness of the manner in which we carry out our duty.
:15:26. > :15:31.Police forces in Britain have always prided themselves on their firm but
:15:32. > :15:38.friendly image. The epitome of trustworthiness. But in the face of
:15:38. > :15:42.Stephen Lawrence, we are always reminded about the feelings. The
:15:42. > :15:47.latest allegations are that the Metropolitian Police spied on his
:15:47. > :15:54.family. Then there is the horror of Hillsborough. Officers and
:15:54. > :15:59.defensible conduct, according to the official report, a cover-up on a
:15:59. > :16:03.grand scale. With issues like this, MPs and the Home Affairs Select
:16:03. > :16:09.Committee have conducted their own investigation. They have heard
:16:09. > :16:15.numerous cases where officers have retard when under investigation and
:16:15. > :16:20.left with the pensions intact. There are calls for them to have their
:16:20. > :16:24.pensions docked, especially where misconduct has arisen. We need close
:16:24. > :16:27.of integrity. But at one must follow. And these must be clear for
:16:27. > :16:32.the public and the practitioner. People must have this unshakeable
:16:32. > :16:37.belief as they did in the past that when dealing with a police officer
:16:37. > :16:41.you get honesty and transparency and integrity. In Scotland we are
:16:41. > :16:46.fortunate not to face a grand scale cases of corruption but could
:16:47. > :16:51.greater sanctions leads to a strict adherence to the rules? The Scottish
:16:51. > :16:58.police authority say these proposals are reactionary and feel to
:16:58. > :17:04.recognise the existing disciplinary procedures. Let us discuss this now
:17:04. > :17:07.with Professor Kenneth Scott. He is the director of Criminal Justice and
:17:07. > :17:14.Police Studies at the University of the West of Scotland. Thank you for
:17:14. > :17:17.joining us. How bad is this problem where officers are being
:17:17. > :17:20.investigated about them retiring before they can be disciplined?
:17:21. > :17:26.is one of the most annoying things that people complain about
:17:26. > :17:32.investigations to then find that maybe the investigation does not get
:17:32. > :17:39.started because someone has retired. It is a matter of public
:17:39. > :17:43.record that since Police Scotland started in April, there have been
:17:44. > :17:49.two disciplinary cases which have been abandoned because the officers
:17:49. > :17:54.have retired. It is not necessarily a large-scale problem, but it is
:17:54. > :18:00.quite a serious issue for those involved. The MPs on the committee
:18:00. > :18:03.refers to England and Wales and that officers dismissed to resign should
:18:03. > :18:07.not resumed service with another Police Service. They pointed out a
:18:07. > :18:11.lack of coordination and seeing that retirement must not be a get out of
:18:11. > :18:16.the jail card because there have been instances of officers retiring
:18:17. > :18:22.from one force and then joining another one. That is not as common
:18:22. > :18:25.in Scotland as it is perhaps the south. We now have a single force in
:18:25. > :18:31.Scotland so there is no other alternative place of employment. It
:18:31. > :18:35.is a very serious issue. Personally I am not too sure about the way the
:18:35. > :18:42.committee has gone about this. It would be seen as quite a dangerous
:18:42. > :18:45.step to interfere with pension arrangements. After all, these are
:18:45. > :18:49.matters of an internal discipline, if someone is not part of the
:18:50. > :18:54.organisation, it is, no matter how frustrating it may be, like
:18:54. > :18:59.difficult to impose a penalty on them. That is interesting, of
:18:59. > :19:04.course, the MPs said they were interested and the sanctions. Tom
:19:04. > :19:08.Winsor, the chief inspector of the constabulary pointed that out. The
:19:08. > :19:13.chief inspectors in England and Wales as well as in Scotland say
:19:13. > :19:20.that pensions can be targeted already. It depends on whether and
:19:20. > :19:26.not the allegation is criminal which is a totally different area. The
:19:26. > :19:32.misconduct regulation has been under a bit of scrutiny of late as part of
:19:32. > :19:38.the change over to a single force. Particularly in Scotland. There has
:19:38. > :19:45.also been a greater degree of external scrutiny which is going to
:19:45. > :19:52.be applied to policing, for example, we now have the new powers of
:19:52. > :19:55.internal investigation by the police complaints commission and in
:19:55. > :20:00.addition to that, we have a single government body and the Scottish
:20:00. > :20:07.police authority who ultimately have the responsibility to make sure
:20:07. > :20:13.misconduct is investigated and dealt with properly. MPs wanted a Royal
:20:13. > :20:15.College of policing for England and Wales, a body to look at Essex and
:20:15. > :20:19.to safeguard and the cat standards and dispose of conduct. Would that
:20:19. > :20:28.help Police Scotland, not Tulliallan, but a special college
:20:28. > :20:30.looking at epic 's and standards? That is not just look at Essex, it
:20:30. > :20:37.is about the whole personal development and professional
:20:37. > :20:44.development of officers. The irony is that the all -- and they are
:20:44. > :20:50.already codes of Essex -- codes of ethics for police in England and
:20:50. > :20:56.Wales and ill so in Scotland. -- also in Scotland. The problem with
:20:56. > :21:00.codes of ethics is how do you install them? You can tell people
:21:00. > :21:05.the correct way to behave but in the heat of the moment in terms of the
:21:05. > :21:09.difficult job that policing has, there may be locations where that
:21:09. > :21:15.standard slips. The question is how do you integrate that into the
:21:15. > :21:19.actions and behaviour of police officers? Otherwise it is simply a
:21:19. > :21:28.statement which does not do anything very much. Thank you Kenneth Scott
:21:28. > :21:33.for coming in. The front pages. Firefighters take
:21:33. > :21:41.out a huge blaze at a recycling centre.
:21:41. > :21:45.The SNP plan to build Scottish warships on the Clyde.