:00:11. > :00:13.Huffington Post. That is it, thank you very much. Tonight on Newsnight
:00:13. > :00:17.Scotland. Is the Labour Party having an identity crisis? Should
:00:17. > :00:22.its new vision be more Scottish or more unionist? Should its new
:00:22. > :00:27.leader come from Westminster or Holyrood? And isn't it time for the
:00:27. > :00:32.politics of aspiration to replace those of traditional tribalism. And
:00:32. > :00:35.with the M8 closed today for over four hours, we ask what can be
:00:35. > :00:41.learnt from emergency services in other countries when it comes to
:00:41. > :00:44.death dealing with unfor seen events. It's been two months sipbts
:00:44. > :00:46.Labour were defeated at the Scottish elections. Some say the
:00:46. > :00:50.fightback has gun. What is happening within the party? Do
:00:50. > :00:53.people know what they stand for? Will their new leader be from
:00:53. > :00:58.Holyrood or from Westminster? All of these questions are supposed to
:00:58. > :01:02.be naend a review being led by Jim Murphy. With local council
:01:02. > :01:12.elections around the corner is Labour acting fast enough or are
:01:12. > :01:12.
:01:12. > :01:18.they being left behind? A moment for Labour to Saviour. Welcoming
:01:18. > :01:23.the new MP to Westminster that is one they won. It wasn't that close.
:01:23. > :01:27.Are people in Scotland really sure what Labour stands for? I think the
:01:27. > :01:30.party has to show it speak for the people of Scotland and it has a
:01:30. > :01:33.vision for the people of Scotland. I know that is the task which all
:01:33. > :01:42.of our members of the Scottish Parliament and members of
:01:42. > :01:47.Parliament and councillors are focused on. Back in 1997, and look
:01:47. > :01:56.at this political party. All to celebrate the success of Tony
:01:56. > :01:59.Blair's New Labour. In Scotland, the party had clear leadership.
:01:59. > :02:03.Could personality be part of the reason Labour are losing their way?
:02:04. > :02:12.One of the problems is we under estimated the importance of
:02:12. > :02:14.personality up until now. We saw that with Donald Dure a forceful
:02:14. > :02:19.personality who helped us towards success in Scotland. We have seen
:02:19. > :02:24.it with the SNP, it's been as much a victory for Alex Salmond as it
:02:24. > :02:27.has for the SNP. The current crisis in the Labour Party would have been
:02:27. > :02:30.unthinkable to Scotland's first ever First Minister. I have been
:02:30. > :02:33.speaking to several senior party sources today. What they are
:02:33. > :02:40.telling me is that this current review can't happen quickly enough.
:02:40. > :02:45.Some don't have confidence in the process. One told me that, actually,
:02:45. > :02:49.this written branch review has yet to get to the root of the problem.
:02:49. > :02:55.Should it be a party based in Scotland with a future First
:02:55. > :02:59.Minister as leader? Should we keep the status quo where the leader is
:02:59. > :03:05.based in Westminster? One source told me unless we have a uniquely
:03:05. > :03:15.Scottish party Labour will not begin the fightback here in
:03:15. > :03:25.Scotland. Back in 1999 a young up- and-coming MSP, Pauline McNeill was
:03:25. > :03:30.
:03:30. > :03:34.But this year she knew she had a fight on her hands despite a
:03:34. > :03:39.vigorous campaign, she was a victim of her party's's failure to connect
:03:39. > :03:45.with the voters. She's believes it's now time to have a separate
:03:45. > :03:48.Labour Party in Scotland. There has to be clear to the electorate we
:03:48. > :03:52.will stand up for the interests of people in Scotland. That means we
:03:52. > :03:58.have to make our own decisions. People need to be able to see with
:03:58. > :04:03.making our own decisions. The SNP has successfully appealled to
:04:03. > :04:09.aspirational Scots. They say they will put this country first. So has
:04:09. > :04:13.Labour lost its voice here? Who are they trying to speak to anyway?
:04:13. > :04:18.cannot just rely any longer simply on speaking to our core vote. It's
:04:18. > :04:21.clear that we've got to reach beyond the people that we
:04:21. > :04:25.historically represented. That's not to say we don't think we have a
:04:25. > :04:31.job to do for them, we have to broaden our outlook now. I think,
:04:32. > :04:37.look beyond what would be regarded as the traditional Labour vote.
:04:37. > :04:44.Change is a difficult process. It requires unity and faith. Something
:04:44. > :04:47.the Labour Party may need to work on. I'm joined from Millbank by the
:04:47. > :04:53.Labour MP Michael Connarty and in Dundee by the former Labour First
:04:53. > :04:59.Minister, Henry McLeish. Michael Connarty, do you think, in choosing
:04:59. > :05:02.a new leader, that Labour should look to your ranks of MPs or should
:05:02. > :05:08.they lay-down that it has to be someone in the Scottish Parliament?
:05:08. > :05:11.That is the problem to define it in that sort of by cam ral way. The
:05:11. > :05:14.Labour Party should look for a leader who represents best what the
:05:14. > :05:17.Labour Party is about. Which is about representing the people of
:05:18. > :05:21.Scotland. If that is someone who is also in the Scottish Parliament,
:05:21. > :05:25.that is fine. If it is someone who happens to be in the United Kingdom
:05:25. > :05:29.Parliament, that is also fine. If it's somebody not in either but is
:05:29. > :05:32.leader of a community or a leader of trade union, they are also the
:05:32. > :05:38.people we should look to. We are looking for people to come forward.
:05:38. > :05:42.I hope we are looking for people to come forward who are not on any
:05:42. > :05:44.particular ka ral. Someone who actually represents the Scottish
:05:44. > :05:47.people, in Scotland, in the things that the Scottish people want to
:05:47. > :05:52.hear. If they also represent the Scottish people in the UK
:05:52. > :05:55.Parliament, as I do, there is nothing wrong with that. When you
:05:55. > :05:59.look at the Labour representation in the Scottish Parliament, after
:05:59. > :06:03.this election, do you see anyone there who you think is good enough,
:06:03. > :06:07.frankly, to lead the Labour Party in Scotland? I don't think on it in
:06:07. > :06:10.those terms. I see a number of colleagues in the Scottish
:06:10. > :06:13.Parliament who are excellent politicians. If they think they can
:06:13. > :06:17.develop leadership qualities and demonstrate those leadership
:06:17. > :06:21.qualities put themselves forward. Don't exclude anyone. That is the
:06:21. > :06:25.point. We have to reconnect with the Scottish people. We need the
:06:25. > :06:30.right policies and right motivation to speak to the people of Scotland
:06:30. > :06:35.and also to the UK government and beyond. That doesn't - to me it
:06:35. > :06:37.doesn't actually take anyone out of the frame. I'm not prejudice
:06:37. > :06:43.against anyone because of the parliamentary or local government
:06:43. > :06:48.elections they have stood for. you agree with that the ex-leader
:06:48. > :06:54.of Labour in Scotland could be an MP, it depends who is best? I agree
:06:54. > :06:57.with what Michael has said. For what it's worth, I think we should
:06:57. > :07:01.have a leader of the Labour Party in Scotland who is not just a
:07:01. > :07:07.leader in Holyrood. My suggestion, it's only part of the debate would
:07:07. > :07:11.be, it would be best served by an MSP from Holyrood. I think maybe an
:07:11. > :07:15.in an ideal world we would want to have somebody outside both
:07:15. > :07:22.Westminster and Holyrood. That will not happen. The two key issues
:07:22. > :07:27.linked to that are, the party needs to be autonomous in Scotland it
:07:27. > :07:30.needs a credible brand. That is why the SNP do so well. What you need
:07:30. > :07:35.is a transformation of the relationship between the Scottish
:07:35. > :07:38.party and the UK Labour Party. So, I think there are party issues. I
:07:38. > :07:43.don't think the party need get bogged down in where the next
:07:43. > :07:50.leader is coming from. There are more important tasks to be tackled
:07:50. > :07:55.in the interim period. You need to select a new leader? That is right.
:07:55. > :08:01.If we carry on with the current procedure we will elect someone who
:08:01. > :08:04.will elect the party at Holyrood - You would prefer an MSP. You also
:08:04. > :08:11.think it's important there should be an autonomous Scottish Labour
:08:11. > :08:13.Party? The party after May 5th and after the 2007 election faces
:08:13. > :08:16.formidable challenge. You talked about vision and about direction
:08:16. > :08:20.and purpose. What the Labour Party stands for. These are vitally
:08:20. > :08:23.important. We are right to concentrate and talk about the
:08:23. > :08:27.leadership. Frankly, Michael Connarty made a good point that the
:08:27. > :08:32.Labour Party leader has to be selling something. What is the
:08:32. > :08:35.vision? What does Labour stand for? It's right to put it in context.
:08:35. > :08:40.The review should be concentrating on a whole host of issues. In the
:08:40. > :08:45.autumn or beyond that we will be electing our new leader. Michael
:08:45. > :08:51.Connarty I want to establish from you, do you agree with heny ri that
:08:51. > :08:56.the party in Scotland should have new leader over MPs as well as
:08:56. > :09:02.MSPs? What, in practical terms, does that mean? Henry and I come up
:09:02. > :09:07.through the same school. We were leaders of a council fighting
:09:07. > :09:12.against thatcher speaking for Scotland against one of the worst
:09:12. > :09:17.governments we ever had. The people want to see us focus on their needs
:09:17. > :09:27.and wishes. I think that can only be done if the party is seen as
:09:27. > :09:31.autonomous unlike my good friend I do not agree it should be separate
:09:31. > :09:35.or independent. It must speak for Scotland, to Scotland and to the UK
:09:35. > :09:40.government for Scotland. It must do both things. It must speak about
:09:40. > :09:44.Scotland's aspiration in the UK and beyond. We are not a nationalist
:09:44. > :09:49.accept rattist party. We are the party of the United Kingdom. People
:09:49. > :09:53.of Scotland is who we are sent to represent. The party leadership
:09:53. > :09:57.must represent. That I agree with him entirely. It's time for a party
:09:57. > :10:06.in Scotland to speak for Scotland. The UK party leadership to accept
:10:06. > :10:16.we need and we deserve that aatomy. It's not a threat it's addition to
:10:16. > :10:18.
:10:18. > :10:26.You mention the word aspiration. There is a few that the Labour
:10:27. > :10:34.Party has ceased to be a party in Scotland. That the SNP has been
:10:34. > :10:39.better. I am curious as to why you think Labour has got itself into
:10:39. > :10:44.this position. I think the reason was partly
:10:44. > :10:50.because the Labour Party seemed to... I am looking at this from an
:10:50. > :10:54.outside position because I am not in the Executive. We did not seem
:10:54. > :11:00.to have a separate programme that was a Labour programme for Scotland
:11:00. > :11:09.that people could aspire to. That is something that came about
:11:09. > :11:14.because there was possibly a process whereby there was too much
:11:14. > :11:19.subservience to the interest of the UK party. Maybe if they repeated
:11:19. > :11:25.the formula for the parliamentary elections, it would win for the
:11:25. > :11:29.Scottish Parliament. That has not been the case. When you are in your
:11:29. > :11:37.own environment, people want to see what you are saying about their
:11:37. > :11:43.lives. Maybe we forgot that and did not have a genuine programme.
:11:43. > :11:48.Is there a broader issue, which might apply to the Labour Party in
:11:48. > :11:53.the UK as well, Alex Salmond appeared to speak for poor people
:11:53. > :12:03.and for deprived areas. He could also speak to where people wanted
:12:03. > :12:07.to be and not just where they are. Somehow, Labour comes across as if
:12:07. > :12:14.it is directing at deprived areas and poor people, which is important,
:12:14. > :12:21.but it has to be more than that. It has. I raised the issue of
:12:21. > :12:27.justice and fairness, and it means talking about social mobility. The
:12:27. > :12:35.politics of Westminster and Holyrood are diverging. We have
:12:35. > :12:41.failed to adapt. I in greed, this - - I agree. We thought being
:12:41. > :12:45.Scottish was a threat to the union but we cannot think about that. The
:12:45. > :12:51.question of sentiment and the symbolism, this is not the monopoly
:12:51. > :13:00.of the SNP. These are issues for us. If we fight elections at Holyrood,
:13:00. > :13:04.we need to fight on a vision for Scotland. The SNP stands for
:13:04. > :13:10.nationalism and independence. Labour should stand for nationality
:13:10. > :13:15.and identity, which makes a difference between the two. If we
:13:15. > :13:23.adopt those positions, we can compete with the SNP.
:13:23. > :13:27.We have to leave it there. We will continue this in the future.
:13:28. > :13:32.There was a reminder today of how vulnerable the transport system can
:13:32. > :13:36.be when a lorry crash caused the closure of the main motorway
:13:36. > :13:41.between Glasgow and Edinburgh. Shades of last winter when snow
:13:41. > :13:48.brought chaos. What is said in the aftermath of the disaster is almost
:13:48. > :13:53.as important as during. It does not take much to block a
:13:53. > :13:59.motorway and bring Scotland's busiest road to a standstill. This
:13:59. > :14:09.lorry crash on the M8 left one man dead and thousands of commuters
:14:09. > :14:11.
:14:11. > :14:16.stranded. The road partially reopened four hours later. It was
:14:16. > :14:20.not trouble on the same scale as winter, when traffic ground to a
:14:20. > :14:29.halt for days. But it would have sent a shiver down the spines of
:14:29. > :14:35.those who plan for emergencies. Yet again, it begged the question, is
:14:35. > :14:39.Scotland resilient in the face of adversity? Good timing for an
:14:39. > :14:45.international conference on emergency planning held in Glasgow.
:14:45. > :14:49.It attracted experts from around the globe, including Christchurch
:14:49. > :14:56.in New Zealand. The city was devastated by earthquakes and
:14:56. > :15:01.aftershocks. The mayor of Christchurch is a keynote speaker.
:15:01. > :15:06.It is the overwhelming emotion that people first feel. Information is
:15:06. > :15:11.the pathway that can take them from that place to getting controls back.
:15:11. > :15:16.People can get that feeling of control back to some degree and to
:15:16. > :15:22.know what to do, where to go. It makes a difference to their ability
:15:22. > :15:28.to survive physically and mentally. For the high-tech equipment on show
:15:28. > :15:36.here, the human dimension matters more than ever. Do those affected
:15:36. > :15:42.stay on board after the ship hits the rocks? Emergencies present a
:15:42. > :15:48.challenge to all people. individuals affected by them and
:15:48. > :15:54.two governments. The Government message, if it proves toxic to the
:15:54. > :15:59.public, it can leave them in need of the contamination. Of course,
:15:59. > :16:06.what happened in Scotland last winter was not on the same scale as
:16:06. > :16:10.Christchurch, or other disasters. But the same issues arise. Some of
:16:10. > :16:15.the anger aimed at the Government came from frustration of the
:16:16. > :16:20.official line. What we have done today, bringing resources from
:16:20. > :16:26.elsewhere in Scotland and ensuring we are responding to this
:16:26. > :16:32.widespread snowfall that caught Scotland during the rush hour this
:16:32. > :16:36.morning, that has been a first- class response. Today, one of the
:16:36. > :16:40.experts tell me that the lesson from Christchurch is that people
:16:41. > :16:45.are remarkably tolerant in emergency situations as long as
:16:45. > :16:51.they are kept informed. People are more forgiving with the truth,
:16:51. > :16:58.however bad it is, than people who cover up things. Not knowing what
:16:58. > :17:02.is happening is not weakness, it is the reality of disasters. No
:17:02. > :17:09.minister will ever know what is happening. It is about being honest
:17:09. > :17:18.about what we do know and keeping communication open for the public.
:17:18. > :17:22.The Japanese tsunami and devastation it brought a shows that
:17:23. > :17:32.governments are one voice in an emergency. The internet has
:17:33. > :17:33.
:17:33. > :17:39.influence. The power of Twitter was really big. People were tweeting
:17:39. > :17:47.all over the place. Saying there is a risk their, we need to send teams
:17:47. > :17:54.there. And they were giving information. The social media is
:17:54. > :18:01.important. It plays a role in emergency response. Information is
:18:01. > :18:07.key, but, today, a word of warning. The response to an emergency is a
:18:07. > :18:13.one thing, but preventing one is another. It is about money. That is
:18:13. > :18:18.the fact. It needs to be made available. To be more resilient we
:18:18. > :18:23.have to spend money. These guys are constantly telling mean they are
:18:23. > :18:31.fighting for budgets. They know they need training. They know what
:18:31. > :18:36.to do now. They have to have money to do it. And, with government
:18:36. > :18:41.budgets being squeezed, there is a dilemma. Nobody wants to spend more
:18:41. > :18:46.on things that might not happen. Then, again, can we afford to take