:00:01. > :00:11.for today. It was meant to be the first the of the MPs having their
:00:11. > :00:13.
:00:13. > :00:20.summer break. -- the first day. On Newsnight Scotland, the long
:00:20. > :00:27.awaited defence decisions are announced. RAF lookers will lose
:00:27. > :00:32.the RAF and fighters, but Scotland will gain a significant part of the
:00:32. > :00:39.British Army. Lossiemouth will remain open, but Redford Barracks
:00:39. > :00:45.is to close. Good evening. The Scottish defence secretary it
:00:45. > :00:50.outlines his plans to increase the number of personnel in Scotland. He
:00:50. > :00:54.is criticised by the shadow Secretary. In the House of Commons,
:00:54. > :01:04.the UK's defence transformation statement had it very Caledonian
:01:04. > :01:12.feel to it. It had been well tot up, so we knew today's announcement
:01:12. > :01:17.would be having big changes. We are determined to be bold and ambitious.
:01:17. > :01:24.What does this mean for Scotland? As widely predicted, there is now
:01:24. > :01:32.just one ear based law of of the border. -- 1 the airport base north
:01:32. > :01:37.of the border. The RAF has left some basis, but the army will move
:01:37. > :01:41.into Kinloss. Whilst the army is shrinking, the number of soldiers
:01:41. > :01:49.based in Scotland is set to triple. Thousands of soldiers based in
:01:49. > :01:57.Germany will return to the UK. In Edinburgh, all three backs will be
:01:57. > :02:02.sold. A new Super backs will be built on the old era force base. --
:02:02. > :02:12.giant barracks. There will be a new army training area in southern
:02:12. > :02:23.
:02:23. > :02:27.Scotland. There is safe base will Taken together, this represents a
:02:27. > :02:33.significant increase in the defence blueprint of Scotland. This is in
:02:33. > :02:37.line with the Scottish tradition of supporting our armed forces. It is
:02:37. > :02:42.a recognition that these are United Kingdom forces under the crone
:02:42. > :02:50.protecting the United Kingdom. is important to insure the armed
:02:50. > :02:54.forces are properly provided for, but there will be fury in Fife. The
:02:54. > :02:59.RAF had been based there for 70 years, and it is a matter of deep
:02:59. > :03:09.regret that the Government has broken this link. This footage
:03:09. > :03:16.shows the Queen's first visit to Fife in 1937. Deviation in the town
:03:16. > :03:20.dates back to 1937. Today marks the end of any rough. There has been
:03:20. > :03:25.here defence carried on here for the best part of 100 years, and the
:03:25. > :03:30.reason why it is being carried on 24 hours a day at this very day is
:03:30. > :03:35.because it is in the right place to do the right job at the right time.
:03:36. > :03:40.The base is believed to be worth �50 million to the local economy.
:03:40. > :03:46.Now the army is coming here, but the planes will leave in 2013, and
:03:46. > :03:51.it could be 2016 before a military units are set up. What happens in
:03:51. > :03:58.between? I do not think that gap will manifest itself in the way
:03:58. > :04:05.people envisage. A lot of investment will need to come in so
:04:05. > :04:10.that it can be made ready for the change in use. Cheers in
:04:10. > :04:16.Lossiemouth as locals there heard that the planes would be coming to
:04:16. > :04:20.them. Their nine-month campaign was successful. We said from the onset
:04:20. > :04:23.we would fight this campaign and not allow you decisions to be made
:04:23. > :04:32.about the people of Moray without having our voices heard in
:04:32. > :04:40.Westminster. That is what we have done. Huge sense of relief. Nine
:04:40. > :04:47.months of pain and agony ended today. Really big decision for us.
:04:47. > :04:53.Last two is already home to at the bombers, the jet planes will move
:04:53. > :04:59.there in 2013. There was good news for at the neighbouring RAF base.
:04:59. > :05:03.They knew the RAF were leaving, but now they have learned that the army
:05:03. > :05:08.will be coming their by 2015. It has been a bittersweet day for the
:05:08. > :05:11.forces in Scotland. For the first time in many years we have our
:05:11. > :05:16.share of personnel in Scotland when these plans are finished that will
:05:16. > :05:21.reflect our size of the UK populace. In that sense, it represents
:05:21. > :05:27.natural justice for Scotland, but we have to make sure the rough
:05:27. > :05:32.justice for some of the bases does not end up in adverse economic
:05:32. > :05:38.effect. There followed from this battle will emerge as politicians
:05:38. > :05:43.ball over the small print. -- that the results. We could not find a
:05:43. > :05:47.minister that was available to join us from the government. I am joined
:05:47. > :05:56.by the Labour shadow defence minister and Angus Robertson of the
:05:56. > :06:04.SNP. Angus, you must be delighted. I am delighted in the sense that
:06:04. > :06:09.the campaign in Moray to retain Lossiemouth and in Kinloss has won
:06:09. > :06:19.through after a ten-month campaign, and my thanks quite to everybody
:06:19. > :06:21.
:06:21. > :06:25.who has been involved. -- My thanks call-out. But that is bittersweet
:06:25. > :06:31.because all the political parties in Scotland agreed that we
:06:31. > :06:36.supported the retention of both RAF Lossiemouth and RAF Leuchars as air
:06:36. > :06:41.bases. Scotland had or only two based his operational after RAF
:06:41. > :06:46.Kinloss began winding down, and we thought there was a future for two
:06:46. > :06:51.air base is in Scotland. Sadly, the Westminster government has decided
:06:51. > :06:58.that is not the case, but in RAF Leuchars case, the change of use
:06:58. > :07:03.will see the army moved in. Bittersweet, but on personnel
:07:03. > :07:08.numbers, a very welcome rise for the army, the establishment of a
:07:08. > :07:12.mobile brigade in Scotland, but we will see more than 50 % of RAF
:07:12. > :07:16.personnel in Scotland cut, and certainly not commented on in
:07:16. > :07:26.detail, nearly 100 % of the Royal Marine contingent in Scotland which
:07:26. > :07:30.were based in Angus, very specific reasons, their amphibious
:07:30. > :07:34.capabilities. That will be moving to the south coast of England, and
:07:34. > :07:40.we are not entirely sure what that means for the future. It is a very
:07:40. > :07:43.mixed bag, not forgetting that buried in today's announcement is
:07:43. > :07:49.confirmation that the divisional commander over Scotland, Northern
:07:49. > :07:53.Ireland and northern England, which has operated outside Edinburgh, is
:07:53. > :07:59.being cut in its entirety, so we will lose at very senior level of
:07:59. > :08:04.military commander in Scotland. we focus on not we are -- on what
:08:04. > :08:10.we are not sure about, if the SNP had a clear strategy, or any
:08:10. > :08:14.strategy at all, about commitments, what would enable us to meet
:08:14. > :08:19.commitments, do you think you could have made all these arguments are a
:08:19. > :08:23.lot more effectively? I think we have made them effectively and that
:08:23. > :08:28.is why we have won through in some areas, by highlighting the very
:08:28. > :08:34.capable facility that is based there, so we can interact with our
:08:34. > :08:38.Nordic neighbours and commitments for the wider region. We
:08:38. > :08:45.successfully made the case that in the last 10 years there has been a
:08:45. > :08:50.significant loss of jobs. There has been a multi-billion-pound defence
:08:50. > :09:00.underspend in Scotland, a literally anaemic presence for the army.
:09:00. > :09:00.
:09:00. > :09:09.Under Labour there will only 3,000 troops in Scotland. That is why we
:09:09. > :09:14.will increase that and it has been able for the Conservatives to
:09:14. > :09:19.announce that this is a good thing. Up until now, it has been pretty
:09:19. > :09:27.anaemic with only 3,000 men and women from army battalions. That is
:09:28. > :09:31.to be welcomed. Let us be clear, Scotland has done badly out of UK
:09:31. > :09:38.decision-making on defence, but I do not think any party in Scotland
:09:38. > :09:47.would be cutting the air force by 50 % and the Royal Marines by 100 %.
:09:47. > :09:51.If we look at Labour's comments, they look a bit over rot. The army
:09:51. > :09:58.presence will double in Scotland, there is a lot of expertise coming
:09:58. > :10:05.into Scotland. That is correct in one respect. We will see increasing
:10:05. > :10:12.numbers, and that is good. Around 1,200 extra, anything up to 1000
:10:12. > :10:17.extra. What the Secretary of State did not identify today, and he was
:10:17. > :10:23.questioned at a time after time, nor identification of what all this
:10:23. > :10:28.is going to cost at the end of the day. The RAF are moving out and the
:10:28. > :10:35.army moving in. That comes with a cost, and there is nothing here to
:10:35. > :10:43.back up what that will cost us overall. He spoke about an extra
:10:43. > :10:48.�1.5 billion of equipment, but only 30 % of that will be in this
:10:48. > :10:58.Parliament. The think we are spending too much, too little on
:10:58. > :10:59.
:10:59. > :11:03.defence? Some of this is quite a way down the road, and what we need
:11:03. > :11:09.to see in these duties... I agree with Angus, there has been some
:11:09. > :11:14.hard campaigning and the people in Lossiemouth deserve all the credit,
:11:14. > :11:18.but what we do not need to see in any of these communities is a gap
:11:18. > :11:26.between now and whenever the army moved in, either Kinloss or RAF
:11:26. > :11:30.Leuchars, because... Are you making an economic our strategy argument?
:11:30. > :11:35.The question I am answering is an economic one. We have seen
:11:35. > :11:39.businesses closing down and house prices falling. The economics is
:11:39. > :11:48.difficult to square. What you are seeing is whatever the cost, we
:11:48. > :11:55.have to pay for defence jobs. not just about strategic value, and
:11:56. > :12:00.I do worry about that. What we have got is a decision today which has
:12:00. > :12:04.come 10 months after a strategic defence review where there was no
:12:04. > :12:10.strategy there whatsoever. I am not absolutely convinced that what we
:12:10. > :12:17.have got is the right decision either, and to a certain extent I
:12:17. > :12:24.agree with what Angus is saying in terms of liquors in particular. --
:12:24. > :12:34.RAF Leuchars in particular. It was there for 70 years, a strategic
:12:34. > :12:36.
:12:36. > :12:39.location. That will be a hard Angus Robertson, looking at
:12:39. > :12:44.strategic forward planning, what do you think should happen with
:12:44. > :12:49.Lossiemouth? Should the Joint Strike fighters go there, or are
:12:49. > :12:52.strategic advantages further undermined? I am trying to
:12:52. > :12:57.understand the detail from today's statement. Unfortunately the am Fox
:12:57. > :13:03.did not answer these questions when I oppose them. -- unfortunately,
:13:04. > :13:09.Liam Fox did not answer. I suspect we will see the quick action jets
:13:09. > :13:14.from Leuchars move to Lossiemouth, two squadrons, the operational
:13:15. > :13:19.Conversion Unit, the Tornado Training Squadron, remaining. And
:13:19. > :13:22.one other operational squadron, as well as the simulators in the RAF
:13:22. > :13:28.Regiment. That would maintain personnel numbers at Lossiemouth,
:13:28. > :13:30.but you would be right to point out that tornadoes will be taken out of
:13:30. > :13:37.service and that some undetermined point in the future we will have
:13:37. > :13:42.the next generation of fast jets come in. In 2005, the RAF concluded
:13:42. > :13:46.that Lossiemouth was the bath bath -- the best fast jet base in the UK
:13:46. > :13:51.to host the next generation of fast jets. We are meant to be co-
:13:51. > :13:56.ordinating with Norway, who are also getting these jets.
:13:56. > :14:01.Lossiemouth is best placed for our long-term future with fast jets.
:14:01. > :14:06.wonder why you think you need two air bases in Scotland. The bigger
:14:06. > :14:11.picture I am asking about his were you to design a forces profile for
:14:11. > :14:15.an independent Scotland, would it be a terribly bad fit to have won
:14:15. > :14:19.their base and a large army contingent? It would be important
:14:19. > :14:23.to have an air facility like Lossiemouth and a mobile army and
:14:23. > :14:29.brigade coming in. These are things an independent Scotland would need
:14:29. > :14:34.and it is to be welcomed. There are capability gaps at present, no
:14:34. > :14:39.transportation aircraft based in Scotland, no helicopters based in
:14:39. > :14:46.Scotland and a number of army functions not based in Scotland.
:14:46. > :14:52.While there is progress in that said, -- sons, or the changes would
:14:52. > :14:57.need to be made. Rossor, do you think these changes to the army are
:14:57. > :15:00.significant? -- Russell Brown, do you think? There is a degree of
:15:00. > :15:05.sense but there is a tremendous amount of small print to be looked
:15:05. > :15:11.at. There was quite a lot of air coming from the Secretary of State
:15:11. > :15:15.and no real answers. Angus is talking about an independent
:15:15. > :15:19.Scotland. If there is a threat at what we have seen in terms of the
:15:20. > :15:24.Strategic Defence Review, what would be worse is an independent
:15:24. > :15:29.Scotland. Angus talks about his Nordic neighbours, Norway, a part
:15:29. > :15:35.of NATO. An independent Scotland would not be part of NATO. We
:15:35. > :15:39.should not forget these things. are out of time, I am sorry, to
:15:39. > :15:44.discuss the wider implications. But thank you both very much indeed.
:15:44. > :15:50.I am joined from Edinburgh by the Defence expert Trevor Royle. Thank
:15:50. > :15:57.you for coming in. How significant do you think the changes will be
:15:57. > :16:00.for the Army as we know it so far? Very significant for the army. I
:16:00. > :16:05.think what we are seeing is a return almost two pre-Second World
:16:05. > :16:11.War Scotland, we are seeing the army's footprint extend across the
:16:11. > :16:15.country, we will see poor George being retained, which I welcome,
:16:15. > :16:21.possibly the army moving into Arbroath -- we will see Porter
:16:21. > :16:24.George being retained. Forces are coming back from Germany, the
:16:24. > :16:31.Defence Secretary Liam Fox has said we will do that. That get rid of a
:16:31. > :16:36.lot of local social problems as well. Both Kinloss and Leuchars
:16:36. > :16:42.will suffer from the end of the RAF presence, but I'm sure they will
:16:42. > :16:47.welcome the army units when they come. The only caveat I have, I
:16:47. > :16:51.denigrate, quite honestly, the absence of the army from Edinburgh.
:16:51. > :16:56.I think those closures are most unfortunate, and as Angus Robertson
:16:56. > :16:59.said, the absence of a separate command structure in Scotland. It
:16:59. > :17:04.looks as though the Army in Scotland for the first time in the
:17:04. > :17:09.long history of a British Army connection with Scotland, will be
:17:09. > :17:14.represented by a brigade structure. So you think we have to look at the
:17:14. > :17:18.small print? What about the idea of increasing the reservists? Some
:17:18. > :17:22.people have said this is an army on the cheap and it is difficult for
:17:22. > :17:26.employers to facilitate? Defence Secretary Liam Fox said we
:17:26. > :17:31.were copying other countries like America, Canada and Australia. Of
:17:31. > :17:36.course we are, but they have much larger armed forces. I think
:17:36. > :17:40.reserve forces have a very distinct role to play. Look at the way the
:17:40. > :17:45.National Guards plays a very strong role in Afghanistan and Iraq.
:17:45. > :17:49.Asking our Territorial Army to do exactly the same, it seems to me
:17:49. > :17:54.and it will seem to a lot of people serving in the regular Army who can
:17:54. > :17:59.see numbers cut from 100,000 down to 80,000, that we are now looking
:17:59. > :18:04.for Defence on the cheap. We know the Joint Strike fighters
:18:04. > :18:07.were supposed to going to Leuchars, how important do you think it is
:18:07. > :18:12.that they go into Lossiemouth and there is that kind of capability in
:18:12. > :18:17.that part of the country? I don't think we should be too tied up with
:18:17. > :18:22.numbers. We had three air force bases in Scotland for a long time.
:18:22. > :18:27.Kinross was always going to go once Nimrods have been axed. I think the
:18:27. > :18:35.differences between Lossiemouth and Leuchars are minimal. The problem
:18:35. > :18:39.always will be overload. At the moment, Lossiemouth has -- is going
:18:39. > :18:43.to be the focus for just about all our strike fighter aircraft in
:18:43. > :18:47.Scotland. What happens if things change in the rest of the world and
:18:47. > :18:52.we certainly need to have operational Conversion Unit, more
:18:52. > :18:58.training and, as you say, a joint strike fighter coming in? As Harold
:18:58. > :19:01.Macmillan always said, what happens when events take over. When you
:19:01. > :19:05.look at what political parties are saying about defence strategy and
:19:05. > :19:10.the allegation that this has been driven by costs rather than
:19:10. > :19:14.strategy, the criticisms some have made about the SNP not having great
:19:14. > :19:17.clarity in their defence strategy, do you think there is enough
:19:17. > :19:23.forward planning for what we need in the future, and how will
:19:23. > :19:26.Scotland be placed to meet that? The short answer is no. Last
:19:26. > :19:32.October when the strategic defence review was put in place, there was
:19:32. > :19:39.nothing of the kind. We were not trying to marry our commitments to
:19:39. > :19:42.what we had available to us. It means, I think, we are still
:19:42. > :19:46.struggling to try to discover what level of forces we need, what we
:19:46. > :19:52.are going to do in the world. Scotland has only a very minor part
:19:52. > :19:57.in that, down the years Scotland has always been very important for
:19:57. > :20:00.training and also we have a huge land mass, which is very important
:20:00. > :20:07.for the services. At the moment I don't think we have it worked out
:20:07. > :20:12.properly. Trevor Royle, thank you. A very quick look at the papers.
:20:12. > :20:17.The Scotsman leads with this story, they take on it is Fox unveils
:20:17. > :20:22.defence plan to save the Union. Leuchars Air Base closure confirmed,
:20:22. > :20:32.but Scotland gets new barracks. That's it from me, a very good
:20:32. > :20:34.
:20:34. > :20:37.This evening. Cloudy and damp tonight, a grey start tomorrow. A
:20:37. > :20:41.bit of brightness developing away from some western coasts and hills,
:20:41. > :20:46.but that will be enough to hat -- to add energy to the atmosphere.
:20:46. > :20:51.Some of the were showers across north-east England, slow-moving,
:20:51. > :20:55.heavy and thundery. North-west England is still fairly cloudy.
:20:55. > :20:59.There will be some showers in the south, but well scattered. There
:20:59. > :21:03.will be some brightness, if not sunshine, between. Sunshine
:21:03. > :21:08.possible in the south coast, staying cloudy across Cornwall and
:21:08. > :21:12.northern Devon, the showers will ease a little bit. South-east and
:21:13. > :21:16.Wales seeing a cloud break, but a cloudy day to the north with little
:21:16. > :21:25.brightness. There will be some brightness in Northern Ireland,
:21:25. > :21:29.most will be dry. The best sunshine is Scotland, plenty of cloud to the
:21:29. > :21:33.north. The prospects from Tuesday until Wednesday, there will not be
:21:33. > :21:37.a huge amount of change. The wind will ease and there will be some
:21:37. > :21:40.showers across Scotland, the heaviest in the south-west. For
:21:40. > :21:45.England and Wales, the difference from Tuesday to Wednesday will be
:21:45. > :21:49.increased cloud. The Tempest conditions on Wednesday will tend