:00:06. > :00:13.the part of many politicians to say, make cuts to the police. Thank you
:00:13. > :00:17.very much. Tonight on Newsnight Scotland: The spill from the Gannet
:00:17. > :00:20.Alpha platform is the biggest in the North Sea for a decade, but are
:00:20. > :00:23.Shell giving out enough information on what's going on? The Environment
:00:23. > :00:28.secretary tells us that the Scottish Government was only told
:00:28. > :00:32.two days after it happened. And, 30 years ago Glasgow granted Nelson
:00:32. > :00:40.Mandela the freedom of the city - the first place in the world to do
:00:40. > :00:43.so. We'll have a personal look back at the campaign. Good evening.
:00:43. > :00:47.Shell has confirmed that more than 200 tonnes of oil have spilled into
:00:47. > :00:51.the North Sea after a leak at one of its platforms off the Aberdeen
:00:51. > :00:54.coast. It's one of the biggest spills in a decade. Shell says it
:00:54. > :00:57.has brought the leak under control, but conservationists say they're
:00:58. > :01:01.hugely concerned about how long it has taken to get information about
:01:01. > :01:06.the slick. Catriona Renton reports. Hundreds of tons of oil may be
:01:06. > :01:11.gushing forth, but information about this or oil spill is only
:01:11. > :01:16.being released slowly. On Friday news was made public. There was a
:01:16. > :01:21.leak in a flow line leading to the Gannet Alpha all platform, 130
:01:21. > :01:27.miles off Aberdeen. We now know that it started on Wednesday. Shell,
:01:27. > :01:34.who operate the oil rig, say that the total oil spilled so far is
:01:34. > :01:41.around 216 tons, or 1300 barrels of oil. The sea's surface area
:01:41. > :01:49.affected has been some 90 miles by 2.5 miles. And this is the second
:01:49. > :01:55.leak at the platform in just over two years. It is one of the worst
:01:55. > :02:00.oil spills in UK waters for more than a decade. These pictures were
:02:00. > :02:03.released this evening by a Muddy and Scotland. And the Department of
:02:03. > :02:08.Energy and Climate Change says several hundred tons of light crude
:02:08. > :02:12.oil could be spilled. They say that in the context of the UK
:02:12. > :02:17.continental shelf, this spill is substantial, but it is not
:02:17. > :02:23.anticipated that oil will reach the shore, and it is expected that it
:02:23. > :02:28.will be dispersed naturally. But conservation groups are concerned
:02:28. > :02:33.about how difficult it has been to gain accurate information. The have
:02:33. > :02:35.to look carefully at how communication takes place and how
:02:35. > :02:39.transparent and honest people are at the earliest possible stage
:02:39. > :02:43.because that gives you time to get everything in place. When you're
:02:43. > :02:48.trying to piece it together in retrospect, it does not blow very
:02:48. > :02:52.well, and that is the major lesson to be learned. Trawling for Royle
:02:52. > :02:55.does not come without risks. Part of the concern here is that the
:02:56. > :03:00.spill is happening in the well- established oil fields of the North
:03:00. > :03:06.Sea. No one has comparing this incident to the Gulf of Mexico, but
:03:06. > :03:12.the images of that crisis in April 2010, the World's worst oil spill
:03:12. > :03:14.in history, are striking. Shell has described began it up a leak as
:03:14. > :03:18.insignificant but it is still much larger than anything experienced
:03:18. > :03:24.here and recent times. At a oil spills that have been recorded in
:03:24. > :03:28.the past have been small, so this one is clearly much bigger, but
:03:28. > :03:33.that does not mean to say that it will have much more impact because
:03:33. > :03:38.it is bigger. You have to remember, oil disperses naturally in the
:03:38. > :03:43.marine environment, and usually very quickly. To make, work is
:03:43. > :03:47.continuing to stop the leak. Shell echoes the view from Oil and Gas UK
:03:47. > :03:51.that it expects the oil will disperse naturally. It says that
:03:51. > :03:55.high wind and waves of other the Kent have led to a substantial
:03:55. > :04:05.reduction in the size of the oil slick, but it remains to be seen
:04:05. > :04:08.what the long-term environmental effects will be. No-one from Shell
:04:08. > :04:11.was available to answer questions about the North Sea's biggest oil
:04:11. > :04:14.leak in a decade. The trade body, Oil and Gas UK, were similarly
:04:14. > :04:17.otherwise engaged, as was a minister from the UK government's
:04:17. > :04:20.energy department. But earlier I spoke to the Scottish Government's
:04:20. > :04:26.Environment Secretary, Richard Lochhead. I asked him to bring us
:04:26. > :04:34.up to date with the situation. Shell now have diver's and vehicles
:04:34. > :04:39.trying to stop the leak. And we ought to progress as soon as
:04:39. > :04:45.possible and in terms of what has been leaked, the size is about 217
:04:45. > :04:47.barrels which is significant in terms of the North Sea but when
:04:48. > :04:51.hundreds of thousands of barrels have been leaked in major incidents
:04:51. > :04:54.around the world, hopefully it is not going to cause much major
:04:54. > :05:00.damage to wildlife and anything else. It was Friday night before
:05:00. > :05:04.the public were told. When were the Scottish government told? Ministers
:05:04. > :05:09.found out on Friday as well and died early Saturday divorced
:05:09. > :05:13.Minister was on the phone to the head of UK operations for Shell, to
:05:13. > :05:17.make sure that ever operations team would be set up for the Scottish
:05:17. > :05:22.government in Aberdeen. Our interest is to make sure that we
:05:22. > :05:26.protect the marine environment, because all the other issues
:05:26. > :05:29.involved are reserved to the UK government in London. Did you ask
:05:29. > :05:38.why there was such a delay between the League capping on Wednesday and
:05:38. > :05:41.Scottish ministers been told on Friday? -- the leak happening.
:05:42. > :05:45.companies can be more open and transparent, but we have to
:05:45. > :05:50.understand the conditions they were operating in. We were initially
:05:50. > :05:56.told this was a minor incident. But when the aircraft took to the skies
:05:56. > :06:00.and look to the oil Sheehan, and information was monitored from the
:06:00. > :06:04.oil company, it became clear that this was more than a minor incident,
:06:04. > :06:08.but quite a substantial leak, albeit in the context of what has
:06:08. > :06:13.happened in the rest of the world, it is not much evidence that damage
:06:13. > :06:18.has been caused and Olay the wind and waves will disperse the ongoing
:06:18. > :06:23.leak. -- hopefully. Are you confident that the Scottish
:06:23. > :06:27.government will discover what caused this leak? The UK government
:06:27. > :06:33.offices responsible for offshore pollution set in and set up an
:06:33. > :06:38.operations room in consensus with the oil company, Shell, in Aberdeen
:06:38. > :06:41.and they take over, and it is up to the individual who runs that on
:06:41. > :06:48.behalf of the UK Secretary of State to make sure that Shell is doing at
:06:48. > :06:51.the end has to do to stop this week. -- everything it has to do. Then it
:06:51. > :06:54.reports to the UK government and the Scottish government, because we
:06:54. > :07:01.are very concerned about what is happening and we want to be part of
:07:01. > :07:06.that investigation. You have talked about this leap been significant.
:07:06. > :07:09.How significant will it be in terms of Ireland -- environmental damage?
:07:09. > :07:16.That is why the Scottish government is taking such a close interest
:07:16. > :07:18.because of the damage to the marine environment. We are speaking about
:07:18. > :07:22.a leaked far out at sea. This league has been slowed down in
:07:23. > :07:27.terms of the leak from a pipe. That means it is more likely to be
:07:27. > :07:32.disbursed by the North Sea. The evidence is that there is no
:07:32. > :07:37.potential damage to marine wildlife. There is very little money and
:07:37. > :07:44.wildlife known about in the area well as league has a cup. -- marine
:07:45. > :07:50.wildlife. Ornithologists are checking the bird population to see
:07:50. > :07:54.if there is any there, and we are in contact with the RSPB. Is it
:07:54. > :07:59.significant that nobody from the company has been available to be
:07:59. > :08:03.interviewed about their handling of this? I have encouraged Shell to be
:08:03. > :08:11.as open and transparent as possible, because that is what the public
:08:11. > :08:15.expect, we want the Scottish public to be kept up-to-date. But Shell
:08:15. > :08:18.should be open and transparent, because people want to know and
:08:18. > :08:21.trust that the right thing is happening and that is why we should
:08:21. > :08:27.be hearing from them as often as possible and we would encourage
:08:27. > :08:37.them to be as open and transparent as possible. We in the Scottish
:08:37. > :08:38.
:08:38. > :08:41.government are being open and transparent. Listening to that is
:08:41. > :08:45.the Sunday Herald's Environment Editor, Rob Edwards, who joins me
:08:45. > :08:49.now. How concerned should we be about this leak? We should be very
:08:49. > :08:53.concerned. It bears all the hallmarks of what has happened in
:08:53. > :08:58.the past when industries have major problems - they did not tell us
:08:58. > :09:02.immediately. When they do tell us, they played down and then it
:09:02. > :09:06.emerges as a much bigger problem and, that looks like the pattern
:09:06. > :09:10.here. The Scottish government, along with the rest of us, did not
:09:10. > :09:14.know about it until two days after it happened, and only now, five
:09:14. > :09:19.days after it happened, how we had any hard information from Shell
:09:19. > :09:23.about what happened, and that is more alarming than anything we have
:09:23. > :09:28.had before. A is it possible that Shell did not have that
:09:28. > :09:32.information? I don't know about that but it did the amazing if they
:09:32. > :09:37.did not know more about it and they actually told us. What is
:09:37. > :09:41.disturbing to me is that not only has a lot of oil been leaked but it
:09:41. > :09:46.is still leaking. According to Shell, one ton each they are still
:09:46. > :09:52.coming out and they are still trying to plug it. The history of
:09:52. > :09:55.these things, with the experience of BP and the Gulf of Mexico is
:09:55. > :10:05.that they tend to downplay them and then the truth comes out and that
:10:05. > :10:05.
:10:05. > :10:09.The North Sea is a vast body of water, the amount of oil which has
:10:09. > :10:13.leaked into it is significant according to Shell, but it's not
:10:13. > :10:17.all that significant, is it? This isn't major in comparison to other
:10:17. > :10:21.leaks in other parts of the world. It's not as bad as a major oil leak
:10:21. > :10:26.next to a coastline. But I was a little surprised to hear the
:10:26. > :10:30.minister saying that this is an area where there's no marine life.
:10:30. > :10:35.I somewhat doubt that. I'm sure there is some marine life. We know
:10:35. > :10:39.oil is damaging to marine life. We're at the stage where Shell and
:10:39. > :10:41.the Government are reassuring us it's going to be, but we don't
:10:41. > :10:46.actually know what the damage will be to wildlife. But we know that
:10:46. > :10:51.oil can be damaging. Maybe it will be dispersed and maybe there won't
:10:51. > :10:55.be a major problem, but it would provide more comfort to the public
:10:55. > :10:59.if there was more information about what the threat is and what it's
:10:59. > :11:04.likely to be. Does the fact that it's getting more difficult to get
:11:04. > :11:08.access to some of the oil reserves in the North Sea make incidents
:11:08. > :11:12.like this more likely in the future? Yes, I think it does. I
:11:12. > :11:16.mean, oil is becoming more and more expensive to extract because it's
:11:16. > :11:22.running out. Therefore, oil companies, including Shell, are
:11:22. > :11:27.going to deeper and more dangerous places like the Arctic to find oil.
:11:27. > :11:31.And obviously, the deeper and more dangerous places they go to the
:11:31. > :11:35.risk of an accident increases. It's not, you know, this kind of
:11:35. > :11:39.experience isn't encouraging. There's a wider issue behind that
:11:39. > :11:43.which is whether we should be drilling more oil in the first
:11:43. > :11:47.place, because we know that every drop of oil we take out of the sea
:11:47. > :11:51.will be burnt and will worsen the climate change crisis that the
:11:51. > :11:56.world is heading towards. Edwards, thank you very much for
:11:56. > :11:59.joining us this evening. 30 years ago Glasgow City Council
:11:59. > :12:03.granted Nelson Mandela the freedom of the city. It was the first city
:12:03. > :12:06.to do so. In 1981, when Mandela was still in jail, convicted of
:12:06. > :12:12.terrorism, it was far from uncontroversial. Glasgow continued
:12:12. > :12:16.to be a centre of anti-apartheid campaigns throughout the 1980s.
:12:16. > :12:26.David Pratt, now foreign editor of the Sunday Harold was involved in
:12:26. > :12:28.
:12:28. > :12:35.those campaigns. (the Sunday herald) We asked him to look back.
:12:35. > :12:40.It's a long way from the dank confines of a jail to the streets
:12:40. > :12:44.of Glasgow city centre, but in 1993, the world's most famous political
:12:44. > :12:49.prisoner, Nelson Mandela made that very journey. Mandela's long walk
:12:49. > :12:54.to liberty after more than 27 years of incarceration and his arrival in
:12:54. > :13:01.Glasgow in 1993 to collect his freedom of the city honour has long
:13:01. > :13:06.since entered the annuls of political folklore.
:13:06. > :13:11.I have Cherished the idea of a democratic and free society in
:13:11. > :13:18.which all persons live together in harmony and with equal
:13:18. > :13:24.opportunities. It is an ideal which I hope to live for and to achieve,
:13:25. > :13:28.but if needs be, it is an ideal for which I am prepared to die. These
:13:28. > :13:32.days as Glasgow commemorates the 3078 anniversary of Mandela
:13:33. > :13:37.receiving that award, it's something the city is rightly proud
:13:37. > :13:43.of and looking back to 1981, when it was first destowed on him, would
:13:43. > :13:47.seem only natural for a city, then so identifyibly social in its
:13:47. > :13:53.leanings. 25 years ago on busy Friday afternoons like this, I used
:13:53. > :13:59.to come to this place. I was then a young journalist and activist with
:13:59. > :14:02.the anti-apartheid movement. On those afternoons I would join other
:14:03. > :14:08.activists outside what was then the South African consulate in the
:14:09. > :14:18.building behind me. This place was then known as St George's place.
:14:19. > :14:20.
:14:20. > :14:26.Later, it became known as Nelson But as I know only too well, from
:14:26. > :14:31.my days as an activist, Mandela's freedom of the city was a hard-won
:14:31. > :14:41.battle that had its heroes andville ans both close to home and far
:14:41. > :14:42.
:14:42. > :14:48.overseas. It was when the Lord Provost held a controversial lunch
:14:48. > :14:53.for the South African minister, that the level of activism in
:14:53. > :14:57.Scotland hotted up. David hodge's performance with South Africa was
:14:57. > :15:03.one great embarrassment to the Labour group. That was one reason
:15:03. > :15:08.why we obliged him to leave. He simply didn't see the connection
:15:08. > :15:13.between standing up for gas weedgeians rights and standing up
:15:13. > :15:17.for oppressed South Africans. We were able to set the record
:15:17. > :15:27.straight. That was one of the motivating factors. He is an
:15:27. > :15:32.
:15:32. > :15:35.individual. We are the people who Glasgow Labour group was becoming
:15:35. > :15:40.increasingly embroiled in the battle against apartheid, the real
:15:40. > :15:45.front line remained the movement's organisation of rallies, concerts,
:15:45. > :15:48.demonstrations and a weekly picket at the South African consulate.
:15:48. > :15:54.started with the freedom of the city. Glasgow being the first city
:15:54. > :16:01.in the world to do so in 1981. After that, we led the way in many
:16:01. > :16:05.ways. We saw this as a focus of course, with South African
:16:05. > :16:10.consulate being here. So, the pickets had a real focus. People
:16:10. > :16:15.got to know that the consulate was there, represented the apartheid
:16:15. > :16:18.regime in Glasgow. There was more to this political activity than
:16:18. > :16:28.just public, mainstream demonstrations and rallies. There
:16:28. > :16:34.was also a thriving covert movement. Orderary Scots acted as couriers,
:16:34. > :16:38.procured documents, established safe houses in Glasgow for those in
:16:38. > :16:48.exile and were even involved with arms smug tolling the ANC in South
:16:48. > :16:51.
:16:51. > :16:55.I think quite heroic young people and some older people, who wents in
:16:55. > :17:00.and out of South Africa delivering documentation, delivering money.
:17:01. > :17:08.These were Scots? These were Scots, but from Britain generally. Some
:17:08. > :17:15.who took part in overland safari delivering weapons. That was, they
:17:15. > :17:23.were literally sitting on a keg of dynamite, so to speak, and they
:17:23. > :17:27.played a role which showed the essential humanism of human beings
:17:27. > :17:32.who are going to help others. wasn't in the same as working
:17:32. > :17:36.underground in South Africa, but we were working with people who were
:17:36. > :17:46.working underground and trying to assist them and sometimes of course,
:17:46. > :17:51.
:17:51. > :17:55.it's easier for a white to do By 1986 when St George's place,
:17:55. > :18:00.home to the South African consulate was renamed Nelson Mandela place,
:18:00. > :18:06.Glasgow's reputation as a bastion of anti-apartheid activity was well
:18:06. > :18:10.and truly established. It was a move, however, that wasn't to
:18:10. > :18:14.everyone's liking. Among the most vociferous opponents were the
:18:14. > :18:20.Conservative group, who had consistently tried to block the
:18:20. > :18:24.city's association with the ANC and indeed so Nelson Mandela was
:18:24. > :18:28.nothing more than a terrorist. was convicted of planning to carry
:18:29. > :18:32.out a series of explosions in public transport which would have
:18:32. > :18:37.resulted in very many innocent civilians being killed. Clearly
:18:37. > :18:42.that was a major issue. It was a wet and windy day in Glasgow,
:18:42. > :18:49.Saturday, 9th October 1993, when Nelson Mandela finally came in
:18:49. > :18:54.person to receive his apart of free of the city. I will always look
:18:54. > :19:02.back to this occasion with fond memories, because I now have had
:19:02. > :19:10.the opportunity to thank directly the men and women who have taken
:19:10. > :19:13.interest in events taking place 6,000 miles away. It was a moment
:19:13. > :19:16.Glasgow should always be proud of, a moment when most Scots, to their
:19:17. > :19:26.credit, decided to take a stand and fight for something they
:19:27. > :19:30.
:19:30. > :19:34.instinctively knew to be right. It Let's have a look at the