07/09/2011

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:00:08. > :00:12.right issue. Defeated by 250 On tonight's programme, the SNP

:00:12. > :00:15.spell out their legislative programme for the year ahead. It's

:00:15. > :00:18.their second term, they've got an historic majority, they can push

:00:18. > :00:21.through anything they like. So what did we get - an ambitious programme

:00:21. > :00:28.of dynamic change or an over-safe shepherding towards an independence

:00:28. > :00:31.Good evening. Holyrood will be rolling up its

:00:31. > :00:35.collective sleeves and getting ready to pilot through 16 new bills

:00:35. > :00:38.this session. The SNP are in the unprecedented position of a single

:00:38. > :00:40.party majority and have chosen to use the historic opportunity to

:00:40. > :00:47.focus on minimum pricing, police reform and training for unemployed

:00:47. > :00:57.teenagers. So is this the programme to steer Scotland through these

:00:57. > :00:58.

:00:58. > :01:03.turbulent economic times? Raymond Holyrood's corridors of power have

:01:03. > :01:08.never seen the like. A First Minister free to all for his own

:01:08. > :01:13.legislative programme. Dependent on no what else. Alex Salmond's

:01:13. > :01:19.majority of MSPs gives him the ability to stamp made by the SNP on

:01:19. > :01:23.all of his bills. Today we unveil a programme for government. Practical

:01:23. > :01:28.measures to make our citizens healthier. Capital investment to

:01:28. > :01:32.aid recovery. I would what did it - - welcome constructive ideas on how

:01:32. > :01:37.to make Scotland better. Making Scotland better is the focus of

:01:37. > :01:42.this government. It is one reason why we won a historic victory in

:01:42. > :01:45.May. A recognition of proven competence and commitment.

:01:45. > :01:49.listed 16 Bills in total, some covering more familiar issues than

:01:49. > :01:53.others. Alcohol will have a minimum unit price. Scotland's different

:01:53. > :01:57.police forces will become one Scottish service, the same will

:01:57. > :02:02.happen to fire and rescue. Sectarianism will lead to tougher

:02:02. > :02:07.jail terms and there should be some Lockerbie questions answered as

:02:07. > :02:16.ministers seek to make public a confidential document about Abdul

:02:16. > :02:19.Basset al-Megrahi's appeal against conviction. Also helping business

:02:19. > :02:25.through enterprise zones and to create more foreign tenancies. But

:02:25. > :02:28.the SNP won't be legislating on an independence referendum, despite Mr

:02:28. > :02:32.Sam and spending a substantial proportion of his speech telling

:02:32. > :02:36.the country why he thought independence was so important.

:02:36. > :02:41.Voters who put their trust in us also note the SNP believes in

:02:41. > :02:45.independence. They understand it. We have won their trust and we will

:02:45. > :02:48.not abuse it. We know they are listening, keen to hear the

:02:49. > :02:53.positive story we have to tell about the future. Their future as

:02:53. > :02:57.parents, students, workers, entrepreneurs, professionals. They

:02:57. > :03:01.share our excitement about the project to build a better nation.

:03:01. > :03:06.Independents will improve the future for all these people, it

:03:06. > :03:11.will be an independence generation. Listening were the First Minister's

:03:11. > :03:15.defeated foes. Iain Gray's term as Labour's leader will end before

:03:15. > :03:20.many of these bills are voted on. The First Minister has a mandate

:03:20. > :03:24.for this now, he has a majority in this Parliament, he has a draft

:03:24. > :03:30.bill, or so he says, he has no credible excuse for not bringing

:03:30. > :03:33.that Bill Forward. Except that he does not think the people of

:03:33. > :03:38.Scotland are ready to have their say because they might not give him

:03:38. > :03:42.the answer he wants. Conservatives are looking for a

:03:42. > :03:48.lead of, too so this was one of the last chances to see some classic

:03:48. > :03:52.Alex Salmond Goldie banter. The sum offered Alex Salmond the

:03:52. > :03:56.opportunity to reflect and an event, but instead it has been one long

:03:56. > :04:00.whinge from him, one long rant about what everyone else is getting

:04:00. > :04:09.wrong. People are getting fed up with this diet of negativity and

:04:09. > :04:13.gripe. The SNP is relentlessly hostile to anyone who dares to

:04:13. > :04:18.speak out against them or question their version of reality or

:04:18. > :04:24.challenge their proposals. The Lib Dems, Holyrood's knew his minor

:04:24. > :04:30.party, have a fresh leader in new thinking on some SNP policies.

:04:30. > :04:40.Lib Dems initially opposed, have now reflected and will consider and

:04:40. > :04:43.

:04:43. > :04:50.support the SNP's plans regarding APPLAUSE I didn't think I would

:04:50. > :04:54.have a hear that! It is backed by a large amount of health bodies.

:04:54. > :05:02.Health effects are severe, it impacts on children and families.

:05:02. > :05:07.So Mr Salmond is already a convert. But his days of negotiation are

:05:08. > :05:12.over. His majority means he can now bend Holly run to his will.

:05:12. > :05:14.Just before we came on air... Just before we came on air, I spoke

:05:14. > :05:17.to the Deputy First Minister, Nicola Sturgeon, and began by

:05:17. > :05:20.suggesting to her that for a government with the power to do

:05:20. > :05:25.what they want, this was not an ambitious or dynamic legislative

:05:25. > :05:32.programme. This is a hugely ambitious programme, it has a real

:05:32. > :05:35.focus on jobs, the opportunities for all, a plan to give every 16-

:05:35. > :05:39.19-year-old a training or learning place to make sure we are providing

:05:39. > :05:43.opportunities in this difficult financial climate for young people.

:05:43. > :05:48.It is a plan to reform public services, to make sure they are

:05:48. > :05:52.sustainable, but delivering efficiently and effectively. It is

:05:53. > :05:57.focused on Scotland's future. This is a programme full of ambition and

:05:57. > :06:01.we look forward to implementing it. What your critics would say is that

:06:01. > :06:04.essentially it is a tidying-up exercise of proposals we knew about

:06:04. > :06:10.before and that you don't know what to do with your majority. Nothing

:06:10. > :06:13.could be further from the truth. Let me take a proposal been my own

:06:13. > :06:16.portfolio, minimum pricing for alcohol, something we think is

:06:16. > :06:20.fundamentally important to rebalance this country's

:06:20. > :06:24.relationship with alcohol, to remove a scourge that is limiting

:06:24. > :06:28.our potential. We tried to do that in the previous session of

:06:28. > :06:32.Parliament and we were blocked for party political reasons by the

:06:32. > :06:36.opposition. Now that we have a majority, we want to come forward

:06:36. > :06:40.again with a proposal because we think it is incredibly important

:06:40. > :06:46.and it has the overwhelming backing of health professionals and the

:06:46. > :06:50.police. That is one example. A plan for a single police service and

:06:50. > :06:54.fire service. Reforming public services, making sure they are kept

:06:54. > :06:58.sustainable, but can also deliver better for the people of Scotland.

:06:58. > :07:02.In terms of reforming public services, what you have announced a

:07:02. > :07:07.day macro for the police and fire will be controversial and his

:07:07. > :07:12.radical, but you have backed away from any significant reform. The

:07:12. > :07:16.Christie Commission, you'll get round to talking about fairly soon.

:07:16. > :07:20.But there has been no dynamic change. You have been told by

:07:20. > :07:26.independent experts that is vitally important. That is simply not true.

:07:26. > :07:32.In our first term, we cut the number of quangos. We are reducing

:07:32. > :07:35.administration and bureaucracy. We also today set out plans to

:07:35. > :07:45.integrate health and social care and we will surely consult on both

:07:45. > :07:49.

:07:49. > :07:53.Per so what you have already outlined, you are doing enough in

:07:53. > :07:55.terms of public sector reform? We think public services need reform

:07:55. > :08:04.to make sure they can be sustainable in a difficult

:08:04. > :08:08.financial climate, but also so they can deliver better. We think it can

:08:08. > :08:13.deliver the service it is responsible for more effectively.

:08:13. > :08:16.Balancing the budget is also a big responsibility. We balanced our

:08:16. > :08:21.budget in difficult circumstances in every year we have been in

:08:21. > :08:26.government. We will continue to be ambitious and continued to push

:08:26. > :08:30.through radical policies. You say promoting the economy is a priority.

:08:30. > :08:35.Business leaders say that while you were calling for new powers,

:08:35. > :08:39.existing powers like... You could continue cutting to a pub

:08:39. > :08:45.businesses, why not keep doing that? We are using existing powers

:08:45. > :08:50.to the limit and we will continue to do that. We introduced a small

:08:50. > :08:54.business bonus. We will continue to look at what we can do to promote

:08:54. > :08:59.economic growth and to boost our businesses, but we are unashamedly

:08:59. > :09:05.making the case for more powers because they will give us even more

:09:05. > :09:09.ability to grow the economy. If the UK government is cutting at a time

:09:09. > :09:13.we should be boosting economic growth. Are you suggesting that

:09:14. > :09:19.under the devolved setter Maud, you have done all you can do? Of course

:09:19. > :09:22.not. We're using our existing powers, but we will continue to use

:09:23. > :09:27.those powers and continue to look for ways we can use those powers as

:09:27. > :09:33.effectively as possible. Let me talk about another example. We

:09:33. > :09:37.recognise the problem of youth unemployment. It is far too high.

:09:38. > :09:42.The proposal outlined today, opportunities for all, is a

:09:42. > :09:45.response to that, to make sure we are not presiding over a lost

:09:45. > :09:50.generation, that we are giving opportunities for young people.

:09:50. > :09:54.That is a tangible example of how we are using our policies to the

:09:54. > :10:00.maximum, and we will continue to argue the case for more powers for

:10:00. > :10:05.Parliament so we can do more. Annabel Goldie said no date for the

:10:05. > :10:08.referendum, no question, and no idea of what independence means.

:10:08. > :10:12.there had been an independence referendum built in the legislative

:10:12. > :10:16.programme today, no doubt the opposition parties and the media

:10:16. > :10:20.would have accused us of reneging on what recommitted to during the

:10:20. > :10:24.election. We were clear during the election campaign that we would

:10:24. > :10:34.have the independence referendum in the later -- latter half of this

:10:34. > :10:39.

:10:39. > :10:46.term. That is what we said we would But then what Scotland is left with

:10:46. > :10:52.is a strategy where you will not do anything to rock the boat. Were the

:10:52. > :10:59.greatest respect, I'd do not accept the premise of that question. The

:10:59. > :11:06.programme we published today is not vicious. We talked about a couple

:11:06. > :11:11.of proposals. We want to reform our public services, something that is

:11:11. > :11:18.difficult to do. Minimum pricing is about tackling something

:11:18. > :11:22.fundamental in our society. We will be ambitious with the powers we

:11:22. > :11:32.have whilst arguing for the government to be better equipped in

:11:32. > :11:35.

:11:35. > :11:42.the future. Joining the now is Willie Rennie, Annabel Goldie and

:11:42. > :11:48.Iain Gray. Realistically, in legislative terms, do you think you

:11:48. > :11:51.can achieve in this Parliament? today was a curious day. It was her

:11:51. > :11:56.flat and lacklustre performance from the First Minister. As you

:11:56. > :12:00.pointed out, with the majority that he had now, really he can do

:12:00. > :12:07.anything that he wants and it was strange then that there seemed to

:12:07. > :12:12.be nothing in his own legislative programme which excited his own

:12:12. > :12:18.benches. But in terms of what the parliament can do, we have already

:12:18. > :12:22.demonstrated what we can do when it comes to the sectarianism Bill. The

:12:22. > :12:32.First Minister said he would legislate in a fortnight. The

:12:32. > :12:36.combined forces of the opposition parties and importantly, voices

:12:36. > :12:42.from outside, managed to get across a strong view that that legislation

:12:42. > :12:45.was both a flawed and been hurried. As a result, the timetable for that

:12:45. > :12:50.has to be extended and that was a good thing. The fact they have a

:12:50. > :12:56.majority does not mean the opposition does not have a role. It

:12:56. > :13:04.was very curious, giving how much Alex Salmond has banged on about

:13:04. > :13:12.this historic majority, how little he seemed to do with it. The things

:13:12. > :13:16.that do excite the SNP were absent. You spoke about the fact that it

:13:16. > :13:20.was important that the opposition had this was in the chamber and

:13:20. > :13:24.Alex Salmond said he would welcome constructive ideas from across the

:13:24. > :13:34.chamber, but how do you think that will translate in practical terms

:13:34. > :13:40.and how should it translate? Well, my party will look at the

:13:40. > :13:42.legislative detail of Alex Salmond's proposals. We were then

:13:42. > :13:52.the boys at work these and articulate our criticisms if

:13:52. > :14:03.

:14:03. > :14:11.necessary. -- we will then Boyce hour and be used. I find it very

:14:11. > :14:16.bizarre he's whole raison d'etre is independent and he is absolutely

:14:17. > :14:23.evasive on the referendum Bill and is coy about explaining to Scotland

:14:23. > :14:32.what independence would mean. It makes him sound very hollow. We

:14:33. > :14:42.will examine the policy is made today. B can support some and not

:14:43. > :14:43.

:14:43. > :14:50.others. I do think today it that the overwhelming emotion was under

:14:50. > :14:56.achievement and under expectation. -- we can support. He spoke about

:14:56. > :15:01.public sector reform, but in his statement were only four paragraphs.

:15:02. > :15:04.There was not one specific proposal in there. He wants to reform the

:15:04. > :15:10.police and fire service, but that really is about it. Now I just

:15:10. > :15:14.think that is unacceptable when we had the Beveridge report a year ago,

:15:14. > :15:21.pointing out what I thought were promising and positive ideas for

:15:21. > :15:25.debate and discussion on which the SNP is silent. Willie Rennie, what

:15:25. > :15:31.do you think Opposition is for now because the government does not

:15:31. > :15:35.need any of you? It is about using the powers of persuasion and

:15:35. > :15:40.bringing the forces of public opinion into Parliament to put

:15:40. > :15:48.pressure on that government to change their mind. I would like to

:15:48. > :15:56.have them change their minds on police reform. Alex Salmond wants

:15:56. > :16:01.to create a centralised police force. He is out of touch with the

:16:01. > :16:03.communities. These other things we can bring pressure on the Scottish

:16:03. > :16:08.Parliament and on the Scottish government to get the government to

:16:08. > :16:12.change their minds. But how do you do that with the number of MSPs you

:16:12. > :16:17.have, given that in the election you seem to have lost that

:16:17. > :16:23.argument? Just because we lose the election, it does not mean our

:16:23. > :16:33.arguments do not have married. We had people in the country who

:16:33. > :16:38.backed our proposals. -- do not have merit. We would use the people

:16:38. > :16:46.who have expressed views and give them a voice in Parliament. Alex

:16:46. > :16:49.Salmond has admitted he does not have all the wisdom. Iain Gray,

:16:49. > :16:54.both you and Annabel Goldie have raised the Independent bill. The

:16:54. > :16:58.SNP's said it would come in in the next programme later in Parliament.

:16:58. > :17:08.The Poles are moving in their favour. You must accept that they

:17:08. > :17:11.

:17:11. > :17:14.do not have to rush into this. -- the polls. The argument they have

:17:14. > :17:18.always mounted is that the people of Scotland should be allowed to

:17:18. > :17:21.have their say on this issue. I have to have knowledge they won

:17:21. > :17:31.that argument in the election and now have the mandate to bring it

:17:31. > :17:34.

:17:34. > :17:39.forward. It is a betrayal of the people's Trust -- Trust. They are

:17:39. > :17:42.saying that they will hold it until they can get the right result. They

:17:42. > :17:47.said they were trying to bring a Bill forward in the last Parliament.

:17:47. > :17:52.They did not bring it and those that the reason for it was that

:17:52. > :17:58.they did not have a majority in the parliament. They do now and we saw

:17:58. > :18:04.last week with the CBI, for example, that the uncertainty is damaging

:18:04. > :18:09.the Scottish economy. It is something we should deal with.

:18:09. > :18:15.Their argument about that is they should not be concentrating on that

:18:15. > :18:18.now. They should be concentrating on the economy, on jobs, the

:18:18. > :18:25.justice system. Have they brought forward the bill, they would have

:18:25. > :18:29.been criticised for that. But they are not concentrating on that. In

:18:29. > :18:33.the run-up to the election, they were reluctant to talk about the

:18:33. > :18:37.referendum. But since they have won power were, we have heard about

:18:37. > :18:42.little else and I think that is what lies at the back of the

:18:42. > :18:46.criticism we are making over the legislative programme. The First

:18:46. > :18:51.Minister have little enthusiasm for what he was doing. Even the reform

:18:51. > :18:58.of the police, which is substantial and I support it. At think it is a

:18:58. > :19:04.great opportunity for Scotland to improve strategic policing and

:19:04. > :19:09.security. -- I think. Also, we can have a stronger local policing. I

:19:09. > :19:14.think that is an exciting idea and exciting reform, but I have to say

:19:14. > :19:21.to the First Minister there was no sign of him being excited about the

:19:21. > :19:25.reform at all. We are almost out of time. Annabel Goldie, Jack

:19:25. > :19:30.McConnell said that opposition parties failed to put the case for

:19:30. > :19:37.the union and they are now on the back fought. You must accept that

:19:37. > :19:41.is the case and the way the polls are moving suggests that as well?

:19:41. > :19:45.do not accept that. I think the three opposition parties have

:19:46. > :19:50.expressed their strong support for the union and the three opposition

:19:50. > :19:53.parties are identified with that position. But what has happened

:19:53. > :19:58.since May is that inevitably the political limelight has focused on

:19:58. > :20:04.this very dominant SNP presence in the Scottish parliament. That is

:20:04. > :20:09.understandable, but what I've got remind viewers is that if you look

:20:09. > :20:16.at the poll in the Times, it shows that most of the people in Scotland

:20:16. > :20:21.are saying to Alex Salmond, bring the referendum for what -- for what.

:20:21. > :20:25.Willie Rennie, we take it for granted it is they give in that

:20:25. > :20:31.Alex Salmond will get his MSPs to toe the line. When it comes down to

:20:31. > :20:39.something local like police forces, do you think there will be some of

:20:40. > :20:46.revolting backbenchers? They could be. There will be concern as people

:20:46. > :20:51.find out that the accountability promised does not come to fruition.

:20:51. > :20:55.I must address this independence question. It is closer than before

:20:55. > :21:00.and there has been a change of mood in Scotland. That is why it is

:21:00. > :21:07.essential that we get to the nuts and bolts of it. So far we have had

:21:07. > :21:11.nothing. One of my colleagues in Westminster asked six serious and

:21:11. > :21:16.simple questions about the cost of independence and how it would work,

:21:16. > :21:20.what a separate Scotland would look like. Nothing came back apart from

:21:20. > :21:30.abuse. We need a much more serious debate if we are going to address

:21:30. > :21:30.

:21:30. > :21:33.So we know what was in the legislative programme, but what was

:21:34. > :21:36.missing? And what does that tell us? David Alison spent the day in

:21:36. > :21:41.parliament. This manifesto is just a few months

:21:41. > :21:45.old sow the promises in it are still pretty fresh, add to that the

:21:45. > :21:48.SNP's overall theoretically impossible majority and there is

:21:48. > :21:53.nothing holding them back. Clearly doing everything in this manifesto

:21:53. > :21:58.at once is not an option, but by choosing its policies, the SNP is

:21:58. > :22:05.starting to define itself. police and fire service reforms are

:22:05. > :22:10.pretty bold. We shouldn't judge legislation as lacking power

:22:10. > :22:15.because we knew about it. In terms of characterising this programme,

:22:15. > :22:18.the SNP made much in the first four years of government of their

:22:18. > :22:23.competence and that was a factor, an absolute factor in their

:22:23. > :22:27.overwhelming victory in May. If you look at this programme, it is Alex

:22:27. > :22:31.Salmond trying to bring as many people within Scotland with him and

:22:31. > :22:36.at the same time it accepts went incompetence rather than simply

:22:36. > :22:43.going for big headlines. What is missing from the programme? And

:22:43. > :22:46.why? There is not a whole lot they can do because we have a new

:22:46. > :22:53.budgetary situation as well and that was evident in the legislative

:22:53. > :22:57.programme presented today. One of the striking features is that there

:22:57. > :23:02.are no real big spending bills in there. A lot of the bills fall into

:23:02. > :23:07.the character read of regulatory policy. They may be regulating

:23:07. > :23:13.people's behaviour, whether it is football fans or regulating the way

:23:13. > :23:16.society deals with children and children's rights, but they are not

:23:16. > :23:19.big spending policy items because the money is not there. Turning

:23:19. > :23:24.Scotland into a Celtic tiger and winning independence is the raison

:23:24. > :23:27.d'etre of the SNP and although there is no referendum Bill in

:23:27. > :23:32.today's programme, that is consistent with the manifesto from

:23:32. > :23:39.earlier this year. But we are now five years into SNP governments in

:23:39. > :23:47.Scotland and we don't have an idea of what they mean by independents.

:23:47. > :23:54.If you did at this week's polls, you can see why the SNP have a

:23:54. > :23:57.dilemma, why the Tories are taunting them to get on with it.

:23:57. > :24:01.taunting them to get on with it. This poll suggested 39% backing

:24:01. > :24:07.independence with 30 it cent against. But to follow up by Ipsos

:24:07. > :24:13.MORI suggested 35% in favour of independence with 60% against. The

:24:13. > :24:14.Times poll also found 67% in favour of full tax powers for the Scottish

:24:14. > :24:19.of full tax powers for the Scottish Parliament, but with Scott and

:24:19. > :24:24.remaining in the UK. They are clearly the party for independence

:24:24. > :24:31.and the support for independence. But it hasn't been clearly defined

:24:31. > :24:35.from them just yet. The dilemma is, that is not where the population is.

:24:35. > :24:41.Voters are backing for Fiscal economy, but not backing for

:24:41. > :24:46.independence. At the moment, there is a difference between where we

:24:46. > :24:50.think the SNP are and where voters are in terms of the independence

:24:50. > :24:54.question, which will clearly be the big question over the next five

:24:55. > :24:59.years. Whatever juggling act the SNP has to do in terms of not

:24:59. > :25:02.scaring the horses in terms of the public and keeping its team on

:25:02. > :25:06.message and disciplined, they are helped by the disarray among the

:25:07. > :25:10.opposition, with Labour and the Tories looking for new leaders and

:25:10. > :25:13.the Lib Dems, well, there are not many of them left.

:25:13. > :25:17.Joining me in the studio are two former party advisors - Ewan

:25:17. > :25:24.Crawford, who gave his expertise to the SNP, and Paul Sinclair who did

:25:24. > :25:31.the same for Labour. I think you sold it, you did not give it! For

:25:31. > :25:35.the record. Paul, not to rein on our parade tonight, but all of this

:25:35. > :25:40.is the broad brush approach. We need to see what comes out of the

:25:40. > :25:45.Budget. Absolutely. I thought today was pretty bland. Which is what the

:25:45. > :25:50.SNP want for the next two years. They are going to do something

:25:50. > :25:55.radical, but not for a couple of years. I think they want to frame

:25:55. > :25:59.Scottish politics at the moment as a very quiet, careful government in

:25:59. > :26:05.Scotland and everything going wrong in London. They want to frame

:26:05. > :26:09.London as a problem. What's wrong with that? For tactics to win the

:26:09. > :26:13.referendum it is perfectly fair. I might have advised them to do that.

:26:13. > :26:17.We will get nothing radical and nothing that will be debated,

:26:17. > :26:21.nothing that would suggest they have powers to do something radical

:26:21. > :26:25.in Scotland. That is what we will have and it is up to the parties

:26:25. > :26:28.who will oppose them on the referendum to get more detailed out

:26:28. > :26:32.about what this referendum is. We have fixed-term parliaments for

:26:32. > :26:37.reason, because we don't think a leader should have the power to

:26:37. > :26:42.call an election. Alex Salmond has a power to call the most important

:26:42. > :26:50.referendum in this country in 300 years. If he doesn't set a date,

:26:50. > :26:55.the pro-union parties will put pressure on him to announce a date.

:26:55. > :26:59.That is where you start trying to get the SNP's definition of what

:26:59. > :27:02.independence would mean an bring the argument to the fore. Do you

:27:02. > :27:07.think it will all be about independence or do you think we

:27:07. > :27:10.will inevitably see some more radical proposals come forward once

:27:10. > :27:16.public spending and aura of the cutbacks take effect? Do you think

:27:16. > :27:21.they will be able to hold this line? Part of the protests --

:27:21. > :27:25.process has been to prove itself in government. If you're going to

:27:25. > :27:28.advocate independence, the more credibility the advocates have, the

:27:28. > :27:33.better chance you have of winning that argument. The best way of

:27:33. > :27:39.getting credibility is by governing competently and that was the key

:27:39. > :27:42.message to voters were given at the last election. Alex Salmond said

:27:42. > :27:48.the voters were voting for change and he reiterated that today. They

:27:48. > :27:51.have proved what they can do, the electorate accepted that, but given

:27:51. > :27:54.we are in such extraordinary times, do you really think that what we

:27:54. > :27:59.have seen today will be enough to deal with everything coming down

:27:59. > :28:01.the road? Clearly not and that is one of the argument. It is

:28:01. > :28:06.interesting how the SNP are starting to articulate what

:28:06. > :28:10.independence is. They have come up with this simple but effective

:28:10. > :28:16.phrase. Financial powers are job- creating powers. What is coming

:28:16. > :28:22.down the road to what are huge cuts from Westminster. Maybe another

:28:22. > :28:27.double-dip recession. Although the SNP has done, they would say, and I

:28:27. > :28:32.would agree, some important measures in terms of the economy,

:28:32. > :28:37.they don't have believers. I think we will hear more from the SNP

:28:37. > :28:40.about job-creating powers. It seems they will be able to keep using

:28:40. > :28:44.this Westminster argument, or do you think that has a sell-by date?

:28:44. > :28:48.That is what they will try but it should have a sell-by date. At the

:28:48. > :28:52.moment we have a Labour Party in a weak position, but it will make a

:28:52. > :28:56.comeback. The Tories will make a comeback as well. There will be

:28:56. > :29:00.more scrutiny. There have to be bigger questions rather than a

:29:00. > :29:05.slogan like we want job-creating powers. Everybody wants that. Let's

:29:05. > :29:10.look at the bigger question. What is happening in Greece? And

:29:10. > :29:16.Portugal. You can't have monetary union without fiscal and political

:29:16. > :29:19.union. That is the way Europe is moving. Why would we wish for

:29:19. > :29:23.fiscal independence, or would we wish to go into the euro and give

:29:23. > :29:27.fiscal powers to Frankfurt? Let's go to the nub of the argument. It

:29:27. > :29:32.is that the opponents of independence, the SNP's opponents,

:29:32. > :29:39.will try to get the issue bolt down, as we saw in Michael Moore's

:29:39. > :29:44.questions on the mechanics. That is not... Trying to pin the SNP down

:29:44. > :29:49.an individual questions so the bigger picture is lost. These

:29:49. > :29:53.questions are nonsense. A what currency we have been in them -- in

:29:53. > :30:00.an independent Scotland is nonsense? You'll have to continue

:30:00. > :30:10.this privately in the Green Room because we are out of time. A quick

:30:10. > :30:23.

:30:23. > :30:33.That's all from me. If you want to see the programme again it's on the

:30:33. > :30:35.

:30:35. > :30:40.see the programme again it's on the iPlayer. Goodnight.

:30:40. > :30:44.The winds will die down overnight tonight and they won't be as strong

:30:44. > :30:48.on Thursday. Looking like a cloudy day with most places saying in the

:30:48. > :30:51.outbreak of rain, although there will be sunshine here and there

:30:51. > :30:55.across the eastern Scotland and to the east of the Pennines. To the

:30:55. > :31:00.west of the Pennines, a grey day. Looking dull and damp through much

:31:00. > :31:06.of the Midlands and the south-east. Winds it not as strong as they have

:31:06. > :31:10.been, but still a brisk breeze. That breeze will bring a lot of

:31:10. > :31:15.cloud over the coast of south-west England. And also across Wales. A

:31:15. > :31:20.lot of cloud and outbreaks of rain. Nothing too heavy, but it might pep

:31:20. > :31:24.up later in the day. Similar in Northern Ireland, maybe a hint of

:31:24. > :31:28.brightness, but overall it will be gloomy. Some sunny spells in

:31:28. > :31:31.Scotland, but a host of showers from the West as well. A decent

:31:31. > :31:35.chance of staying largely dry in the east of Scotland. As we head

:31:35. > :31:40.into Friday, the winds will pick up again and they will introduce

:31:40. > :31:49.warmer air. If we get sunshine on Friday, it could feel warm. But

:31:49. > :31:53.across sunshine, there will be outbreaks of rain. Starting off a