:00:12. > :00:14.Tonight on Newsnight Scotland - After delays, disputes and
:00:14. > :00:18.political brinkmanship the new contract for the Edinburgh trams
:00:18. > :00:22.project has finally been agreed. But who's in the driving seat, the
:00:22. > :00:25.council or the government? And as youth unemployment rockets
:00:25. > :00:29.further education colleges are at the forefront of dealing with a
:00:29. > :00:30.economic crisis among our young people. But is the government's
:00:30. > :00:36.planned rationalisation about saving money or improving
:00:36. > :00:40.education? Good evening. Finally, peace in our
:00:40. > :00:42.time - or so it seems. From the city chambers in the heart of out
:00:42. > :00:46.nation's capital came a dispatch this morning to let Edinburgh's
:00:46. > :00:49.confused citizens know a deal had finally been done. The city council
:00:49. > :00:52.and builders Bilfinger Berger signed an agreement in the dead of
:00:52. > :00:57.night that should see trams run through Edinburgh's famous old
:00:57. > :01:00.streets - eventually. It came just a few hours after the Scottish
:01:00. > :01:09.government announced it would now take an active interest in the
:01:09. > :01:15.project but not the blame should it all go wrong - yet again.
:01:15. > :01:20.For a time it looked like Princes Street wouldn't see a return of the
:01:20. > :01:24.diggers to work on the trams. But after months of political scrapping,
:01:24. > :01:28.political manoeuvring, work will get under way this weekend. The
:01:28. > :01:32.agreement between the council and the consortium was signed in the
:01:32. > :01:36.small hours of this morning and that means an expensive and lengthy
:01:36. > :01:41.court case has been avoided. The sense of relief and council leaders
:01:41. > :01:45.was obvious. We have been working harder this since the mediation
:01:45. > :01:49.process since March this year. Finally today we have reached a
:01:49. > :01:52.situation where the papers have been signed. Yesterday the Scottish
:01:52. > :01:59.Government stepped in announcing it would oversee the completion of the
:01:59. > :02:02.project, crucially bringing with them �72 million of funding. Up to
:02:02. > :02:05.five project managers from transport Scotland will fill senior
:02:05. > :02:10.roles in the council's team and will have the power to veto
:02:10. > :02:14.decisions. But they say the book stops here, responsibility for
:02:14. > :02:18.delivering the trams on time and on budget will stay with the council.
:02:18. > :02:22.Patience among Spurs as leaders in the capital is wearing thin.
:02:22. > :02:26.need to know when the work is starting, when it is finishing,
:02:26. > :02:30.what we can expect outside and watch relief measures are in place.
:02:30. > :02:35.The trams are estimated to be up and running by the summer of 2014.
:02:35. > :02:39.But this is far from the final hurdle - there are 700 areas along
:02:39. > :02:42.the route were problems with utilities still have to be solved.
:02:42. > :02:45.I'm joined now by the Transport Convenor of Edinburgh City Council,
:02:45. > :02:53.Gordon Mackenzie, and by the SNP's, Colin Keir, who sits as both an MSP
:02:53. > :02:59.and an Edinburgh councillor. Thanks for joining us. Councillor
:02:59. > :03:03.Mackenzie, let's clarify what this deal is. Are the council in charge
:03:03. > :03:08.of this project? Or are the Scottish Government now running the
:03:08. > :03:13.show? The council chief executive chairs the project board which will
:03:13. > :03:17.oversee the delivery of the project. As your report correctly said, the
:03:17. > :03:21.book starts with us when it comes to funding. I am pleased Transport
:03:21. > :03:27.Scotland will play a significant role in delivering the project to a
:03:27. > :03:30.successful conclusion in 2014. say the book still stops with
:03:30. > :03:35.Edinburgh City Council, but these advisers from transport Scotland
:03:35. > :03:40.can overrule you can't they? There has always been the possibility of
:03:40. > :03:44.Government ministers intervening to take funding away from the project.
:03:44. > :03:48.In fact, we saw a bit of that recently with the Haymarket
:03:48. > :03:53.decision when John Swinney stepped in. It is not a major development,
:03:53. > :03:56.it makes it clear it. We are working together with them and I am
:03:56. > :04:00.pleased to have them on board. figures of this project have been
:04:00. > :04:06.all over the place. This deal you have signed with the contractors,
:04:06. > :04:14.how much will the project cost and when will it be delivered? We have
:04:14. > :04:17.said it should be within �776 million. And we have seen this
:04:17. > :04:23.summer of 2014 us when we should see it. No do you know the final
:04:23. > :04:32.figure now you have signed the final contract? It is not a fixed
:04:32. > :04:37.price deal. What is the risk? �34 million, but that has been �460
:04:37. > :04:41.million spent all ready for a start people will be concerned. You say
:04:42. > :04:46.there is a �34 million and risk elements within his contract, but
:04:46. > :04:51.you are confident it will be delivered in the 776? How
:04:51. > :04:55.confident? I am more confident about the figures now than I have
:04:55. > :04:59.been for a significant length of time. We have had this looked over
:04:59. > :05:03.in far greater detail than when the project started out. We have looked
:05:03. > :05:09.at it in Neum as different ways and transport Scotland have been
:05:09. > :05:14.working with us with -- for several months. We have a good working
:05:14. > :05:17.relationship with the contractor. Those are good indications.
:05:17. > :05:24.Colin kier are you comfortable as an MSP and Edinburgh city
:05:24. > :05:29.councillor, now have their hands all over this? We have absolutely
:05:29. > :05:39.no choice in the matter. The choice that was given to us are
:05:39. > :05:40.
:05:40. > :05:43.essentially, the cost of scrapping, the walk away cost �161 million.
:05:43. > :05:49.That would have had to have come up the council revenue budget in the
:05:49. > :05:53.first year. That would have meant decimation, complete decimation of
:05:53. > :05:58.the council's services and we had nowhere to go. The choice that was
:05:58. > :06:02.put forward then was in the final meeting between the Haymarket and
:06:02. > :06:07.St Andrews Square. Haymarket is a no-go because of the obvious
:06:07. > :06:15.question, there was no business plan. It would no doubt come in at
:06:15. > :06:18.an annual loss of roundabout �4 million, which was their guest.
:06:18. > :06:22.This just a vacation from the Minister essentially saying, we
:06:22. > :06:27.will help out but we are not responsible doesn't really wash
:06:27. > :06:31.anymore does it? We have to live in the real world. Do you have
:06:31. > :06:35.decimated council services or do you have to work through those? We
:06:35. > :06:41.have had a number of years of abysmal management of this project.
:06:41. > :06:47.We have tried to keep our hands off it. But we have no option, for the
:06:47. > :06:52.taxpayers of Edinburgh, this has to go to St Andrew Square, on budget.
:06:52. > :06:55.Councillor Mackenzie, how confident should people be now that if you
:06:55. > :07:01.are still in charge, this will be delivered given how pork your
:07:01. > :07:05.record has been? I think the arrangements we have got in place
:07:05. > :07:09.are strong a man may have been for some time. We have Transport
:07:09. > :07:14.Scotland involved. We have a new team involved in managing it from
:07:14. > :07:18.the council side and we have a new team of private sector advisers.
:07:19. > :07:28.Were so much money had been spent it transports Gollum had taken an
:07:29. > :07:31.
:07:31. > :07:35.active involvement earlier on in this project? I think Transport
:07:35. > :07:41.Scotland have important skills and expertise to bring to the project.
:07:41. > :07:46.I personally have no doubt they will be able to deliver projects
:07:46. > :07:49.like this and it is the right way to be going. They have the ability
:07:49. > :07:54.to recruit and maintain quality staff and they have a programme of
:07:54. > :08:00.work. They would help to manage contractors. They would have helped,
:08:00. > :08:04.there is no doubt about that. But I am pleased to have them on board.
:08:04. > :08:08.We have very little time, do you believe you will be on a tram in
:08:08. > :08:11.2014? A I hope after the commitments that have been given,
:08:11. > :08:16.the new relationships that have been built, and quite frankly
:08:16. > :08:19.getting rid of the previous management cannot harm. I hope it
:08:20. > :08:25.is the case, we have no option but to make it happen.
:08:25. > :08:30.Thanks for joining us this evening. We used to controversy over class
:08:30. > :08:35.sizes and university tuition fees, but further education colleges are
:08:35. > :08:39.however in the news. But as youth unemployment surges by 10% they are
:08:39. > :08:44.at the forefront of dealing with the social and Emma Cook et --
:08:44. > :08:47.economic crisis among junk people. The SNP Government is looking to
:08:47. > :08:51.make savings through merging colleges. We will debate those
:08:51. > :08:55.plans and a moment but we report on the often forgotten providers of
:08:55. > :08:59.education. It may not have the same profile in
:09:00. > :09:02.the media as the classroom or university, but there are 350,000
:09:02. > :09:08.students learning to become anything from mechanics to
:09:08. > :09:13.hairdressers, to builders, printers and farmers at 41 colleges. If that
:09:13. > :09:18.sounds a lot for a small country, the Education Secretary agrees.
:09:18. > :09:22.Mike Russell is of a mind to cut their number through mergers and
:09:22. > :09:26.shared services to affect savings. In Glasgow they have begun the work,
:09:26. > :09:31.three colleges emerged last year and another six are in alliance to
:09:31. > :09:36.share courses and services. Two in Edinburgh are planning to merge. In
:09:36. > :09:40.a sector that educator 20% of further education students at a
:09:40. > :09:43.cost of over half a billion pounds a year. Meaning it can be half the
:09:43. > :09:47.cost of university. Some qualifications like business
:09:47. > :09:51.studies blinks straight into a university course, providing value
:09:51. > :09:56.for money. But we do have unemployment hitting a ten-year
:09:56. > :10:00.high, how key is the college sector? The ability for young
:10:00. > :10:03.people and adult returners to come into a provision within a further
:10:03. > :10:07.education college and get programmes that will at least
:10:07. > :10:12.prepare them for the workplace is fundamental. Whether that be threw
:10:12. > :10:16.up a traditional, Modern apprenticeship or Top Shop
:10:17. > :10:21.programmes. The courses are flexible. When we have so much
:10:21. > :10:27.youth unemployment, you can get, you are providing hands-on work for
:10:27. > :10:31.young people? We are. It is a double edged sword. The first thing
:10:31. > :10:38.is to keep people engaged and interested in education, even when
:10:38. > :10:42.there is no employment. And coming through colleges, and ability to
:10:42. > :10:47.work and associate with people in a similar position and also the
:10:47. > :10:52.ability to go through a programme of study that will prepare them for
:10:52. > :10:56.the workplace. We know we are in a recession and there is an
:10:56. > :11:01.inevitability of coming out of the recession sooner or later. And for
:11:02. > :11:05.young people coming into a place like this, no matter what the
:11:05. > :11:09.programmes are, it is fundamental and important. What about the
:11:09. > :11:16.principle of merging colleges, because it is part of an ongoing
:11:16. > :11:20.process isn't it? The comments made by the Secretary in terms of the
:11:20. > :11:24.outlets in Scotland, he seems to think and I agree with this, we
:11:24. > :11:32.have the right number of outlets in the right locations because we have
:11:32. > :11:41.a number of places and it is important we provide further
:11:41. > :11:44.education. His 41 the right number or should it be less? Ronnie Knox
:11:44. > :11:48.began his career at the college where he is now principal and chief
:11:49. > :11:52.executive. He learned his trade as a motor mechanic, but believes
:11:52. > :11:57.colleges provide a social framework for young people with no support at
:11:57. > :12:02.home. Giving them a purpose keeps them from becoming a problem to the
:12:02. > :12:05.community and makes them confident. There is already a process of
:12:05. > :12:10.consolidation and murder and -- merger between colleges and money
:12:10. > :12:13.is being saved. Where the new entity becomes too large it can be
:12:13. > :12:17.unwieldy and there is evidence from England were some large City have
:12:17. > :12:22.had mergers and they are already being done picks.
:12:22. > :12:26.We are trying to get the mix as to the right critical mass. I think it
:12:26. > :12:32.is making institutions by merger might be a good idea in certain
:12:32. > :12:36.areas. I don't think one thing fits all, necessarily and I think it
:12:36. > :12:41.will depend geographically where the institutions are. I think you
:12:41. > :12:45.could be in danger, if it becomes too big it becomes unwieldy and
:12:45. > :12:50.difficult to manage. College leaders are warning against the
:12:50. > :12:54.expectation of immediate savings coming from mergers, and say the
:12:54. > :13:02.absorb 10% budget cuts last year, a feat it will be impossible to
:13:02. > :13:07.Earlier I spoke to the education Mike Russell and asked about the
:13:07. > :13:11.plans to cut the number of colleges. It is making sure we have the
:13:11. > :13:15.opportunities for every young person in Scotland. The core of the
:13:15. > :13:20.policy is to ensloo -- ensure that young people get the opportunity to
:13:20. > :13:24.go into training or education listen they leave school. And to do
:13:24. > :13:29.that we have got to deliver more efficiently. But the college I
:13:29. > :13:34.structure has been largely unchanged for 20 years. It was one
:13:34. > :13:38.of the last great Thatcher reforms. Times have changed and there are 41
:13:38. > :13:43.colleges, we need to deliver this more efficiently and that is what
:13:43. > :13:50.we're going to try and do. How many colleges do you think we will have
:13:50. > :13:55.in the future. Obviously not 41. We want to deliver on a regional basis,
:13:55. > :14:03.the paper suggests nine regions, but it could be combinations of
:14:03. > :14:08.colleges. We want to make sure that delivery re mains on the ground.
:14:08. > :14:12.But the administration of the colleges means we not only have 41
:14:12. > :14:18.colleges, we have 42 sets of terms and conditions four staff. We need
:14:18. > :14:23.to do this better. I believe we can. You're thinking there would be nine
:14:23. > :14:30.college names, but the buildings that we have now would remain?
:14:30. > :14:36.want to see local delivery. That is one of the strengths of college.
:14:36. > :14:40.But there has been a great deal of duplication of delivery. We say the
:14:40. > :14:44.same in the universities. In each area some things need to be
:14:44. > :14:48.delivered. But in some areas there is a choice and we don't want the
:14:48. > :14:53.same to be available from each of them. You say that you will put now
:14:53. > :14:57.expectation on colleges to have courses which prepare students for
:14:57. > :15:03.careers in industries where they have a chance of getting a job.
:15:03. > :15:08.People will be staggered that isn't what colleges are doing. Well we
:15:08. > :15:11.can do it we -- better. I talked to the head of open university and
:15:11. > :15:15.they are focusing on delivering where people can go into employment.
:15:15. > :15:21.One of the important things about the paper with have published this
:15:21. > :15:25.a learner journey. We have a successful thing called the
:15:25. > :15:29.Scottish credit framework. It is like the template and we have to
:15:29. > :15:36.make sure that is efficient and produces the best results and
:15:36. > :15:42.allows people to move into work easy. - e -- easily. It will cost
:15:42. > :15:47.money. You have given this pledge to 16 to 19-year-old, how much
:15:47. > :15:52.akigs -- additional cash will you see. When we see the review we will
:15:52. > :15:57.see. This is joining I. I believe we can do things more efficiently
:15:57. > :16:00.and effectively even in a time of constrained resource. So with the
:16:00. > :16:04.same cash? When you see the spending review you will know. But
:16:04. > :16:08.we're going to. There is no doubt about this in the public sector, I
:16:08. > :16:13.made this clear and again after to journ is, there are pressures on
:16:13. > :16:18.the public purse and we have to accept those. I would rather they
:16:18. > :16:22.didn't exist. If we were a normal nation they wouldn't be there. But
:16:22. > :16:29.we're going to do more and sometimes for less cash. Perhaps
:16:29. > :16:34.nine colleges, you have talked about mergers amongst Scotland's 19
:16:34. > :16:37.high ireducation institutions. How many are we looking at of those?
:16:38. > :16:42.The institutions are all different and are not the same as the
:16:42. > :16:46.colleges. We talk about this possibility of a regional approach.
:16:46. > :16:48.Scottish universities do serve their own regions, but many serve
:16:48. > :16:53.the nation and they are international institutions. So
:16:53. > :16:59.there are different issues about they grow and work together. That
:16:59. > :17:04.will require more thinking. This is a consultation. This seems to be
:17:04. > :17:07.the right direction, but we are looking for ideas. Spent time with
:17:07. > :17:17.university principals and they're thinking and the university of
:17:17. > :17:23.
:17:23. > :17:33.Scotland is working with very hard on the issues of efficiency. So so
:17:33. > :17:58.
:17:58. > :18:04.Aberdeen has introduced a new approach. Robert Gordon is focused
:18:04. > :18:08.on key specialisms. But also on the oil and gas industry. You can make
:18:08. > :18:12.these arguments for every institution. It is a different set
:18:12. > :18:16.of issues, there needs to be greater efficiency, but we have 19
:18:16. > :18:19.institutions that deliver locally, regionally and nationally and
:18:19. > :18:24.internationally and the college sector we have 41 institutions
:18:24. > :18:29.which deliver largely locally. So there are different issues. What
:18:29. > :18:33.this paper does is says we need to lack at these and find a better way
:18:33. > :18:37.of doing this and it invites the whole community to come in and
:18:37. > :18:42.discuss how we do this. Ends of the year we will have the responses and
:18:42. > :18:46.we have a review going on too of edge caution and then we will move
:18:46. > :18:50.forward with legislation. There is a veiled threat in this to
:18:50. > :18:56.principals, perhaps principals who disa degree with Mike Russell and
:18:56. > :19:01.the SNP. There is no such thing. You quote that, what is the veiled
:19:01. > :19:07.threat. The governance review is chaired by university principals.
:19:07. > :19:10.You move on to the fact there needs to be greater democratic account
:19:10. > :19:16.yapblt. That is what the Conservatives made the accusation
:19:16. > :19:19.yesterday and I rebutted it successfully. What it says this
:19:19. > :19:24.these institutions spend a great deal of public money. My duty as a
:19:24. > :19:27.spending minister is to make sure they account for that. There has
:19:27. > :19:33.been criticism, particularly in the universities of the way in which
:19:33. > :19:38.university governance has got out of kilt we are public megt
:19:38. > :19:43.situations -- kilt we are public pegtations. The tradition of the
:19:43. > :19:50.democratic intellect is important and it is a way we succeeded and we
:19:50. > :19:54.need to go back and treasure that. Thank you. Time as usual for a look
:19:54. > :19:57.at tomorrow's newspapers. First the Scotsman and they're going on the
:19:57. > :20:02.story which was covered in Reporting Scotland earlier,
:20:02. > :20:05.pensions row could cost Scots �8 pensions row could cost Scots �8
:20:05. > :20:13.million. That is the difference between the Scottish Government's
:20:13. > :20:20.view and that of the UK view and a picture of Halle Berry who is
:20:20. > :20:26.filming in Glasgow. The Herald reveals Scotland's care charges
:20:26. > :20:36.lottery. And the Times, I need miracle, that is the UBS trader.
:20:36. > :20:45.
:20:45. > :20:49.From all of us, good night. Hello it is not as cold tonight. Tomorrow
:20:49. > :20:53.won't be as sunny. But still some fine, bright conditions in the
:20:54. > :20:59.south. Only one or two showers. Further north a lot of cloud. Some
:20:59. > :21:04.rain and that could be heavy. As a result it will be noticibly cooler.
:21:04. > :21:12.Showers across the Midlands. One or two in East Anglia. For much of the
:21:12. > :21:18.south, still dry and bright. Temperatures up to 21 in London.
:21:18. > :21:25.High teens in the South West. A few showers in south Wales. A wet
:21:25. > :21:30.morning in North Wales. Same story in Northern Ireland. The afternoon
:21:30. > :21:35.should be brighter. Some showers, the showery rain becoming more
:21:35. > :21:41.extensive in Scotland. It will feel cooler without the sunshine.
:21:41. > :21:47.Saturday is another cool day, with some stiff winds blowing and lots
:21:47. > :21:52.of blustery showers across the country. More sunny spells on
:21:52. > :21:58.Saturday. The showers when they come could be heavy. Particularly