:00:04. > :00:08.and they were faced disaster at the balls.
:00:08. > :00:13.-- they will face disaster at the palls. On Newsnight Scotland
:00:13. > :00:16.tonight: We stay with the Liberal Democrats. The Secretary of State
:00:16. > :00:19.for Scotland gives his views on his party's prospects.
:00:19. > :00:22.Also tonight, we hear from the third and possibly final contender
:00:22. > :00:28.to lead the Scottish wing of that other coalition party, the
:00:28. > :00:32.Conservatives. Good evening. As the UK Liberal
:00:32. > :00:34.Democrats put on a brave face, and more or less unite in defence of
:00:34. > :00:39.their role in the coalition government, some of their prominent
:00:39. > :00:42.Scots seem less comfortable. The party's most senior Scots have been
:00:42. > :00:48.hitting out at the SNP government, and Scottish Leader Willie Rennie
:00:48. > :00:50.is floating ideas about yet more powers for Holyrood. But in the
:00:50. > :00:53.background, former leader Tavish Scott has been telling newspaper
:00:53. > :01:03.readers that his electoral disaster last year was inevitable after the
:01:03. > :01:11.
:01:11. > :01:14.UK Lib Dems chose to join the Plenty to ponder, for a Lib Dems
:01:14. > :01:19.meeting in Birmingham. They are in government but still having to
:01:19. > :01:23.spend a lot of time looking over their shoulders. He then
:01:23. > :01:27.frontbenchers like Vince Cable are having to put effort into attacking
:01:27. > :01:32.the SNP. Some people may have noticed that one of the big media
:01:32. > :01:37.companies has recently had a spot of bother. The Labour Party, the
:01:37. > :01:43.Conservatives and even the Scottish nationalists spent years queuing up
:01:43. > :01:48.to pay them homage. What makes me proud of our party is that we never
:01:48. > :01:55.compromised our cells and that right. The Chief Secretary to the
:01:55. > :01:57.Treasury, Danny Alexander, is also getting in on the act. The Scottish
:01:57. > :02:04.National has made the same mistake, we will never frustrate the
:02:04. > :02:12.national interest, they are enemies of growth. The SNP's success in the
:02:12. > :02:17.Holyrood elections is promising up Hollis the rethink. -- promising a
:02:17. > :02:20.policy rethink. We're developing a blueprint so what we spend the
:02:20. > :02:25.Scottish Parliament is would be raised in Scotland, but we also
:02:25. > :02:29.want to look at local authorities, because increasingly, Scotland is
:02:29. > :02:32.grabbing power into the centre and as liberals, we are strongly in
:02:32. > :02:35.favour of communities to determining their own futures, just
:02:35. > :02:41.like Edinburgh having more control, we want councils to have more
:02:41. > :02:47.control. There is a lot of ground to make up. Remember in the
:02:47. > :02:55.election campaign, the outgoing veteran Lib Dem ms Peake backed
:02:55. > :03:01.Alex Salmond for her First Minister. -- Lib Dem MSP. Personal support, I
:03:01. > :03:07.think he has that there? And the courage to lead Scotland to a
:03:07. > :03:11.prosperous, sustainable future. Then there was the U-turn by Lib
:03:12. > :03:16.Dem MPs on tuition fees for English students. He need to ask them that,
:03:16. > :03:22.they decided to do that down there, I voted to get rid of tuition fees
:03:22. > :03:28.in Scotland and to keep funding, I have a reasonable record on that
:03:28. > :03:31.issue. Tavish Scott has been writing about that election and the
:03:31. > :03:35.Scots and pointing out that despite having an impeccable record on
:03:35. > :03:39.tuition fees in Scotland, the party was dragged into the political
:03:39. > :03:43.gutter by the decision in London. This is the document the Lib Dems
:03:43. > :03:49.hoped would put them on the road to recovery. The election review looks
:03:49. > :03:53.not just that the election results from this year, but also the
:03:53. > :03:57.referendum. The party blames the Labour Party and they blame their
:03:57. > :04:03.own activists for not getting involved enough. For the leadership,
:04:03. > :04:07.there is a lot of work did done. A fight has broken out over what the
:04:07. > :04:14.SNP call a threatening letter from dally Alexander to the Scottish
:04:14. > :04:18.government. -- Danny Alexander. saw the First Minister's toxic mix
:04:18. > :04:23.of prejudice and nationalism. that description was applied to
:04:23. > :04:27.anything, I think the public sector workers watching this broadcaster
:04:27. > :04:32.Jake might apply it to the letter from Danny Alexander and find that
:04:32. > :04:38.entire attitude of huge importance and consign his political party to
:04:38. > :04:43.even lower support than it has just now, if that were possible. In the
:04:43. > :04:46.end, to govern is to choose, and we took the decision about public
:04:46. > :04:50.sector pensions money there was more money for public services
:04:51. > :04:54.including more money in Scotland. To be clear, John Swinney and Alex
:04:54. > :04:58.Salmond are free to do something on public sector pensions, but they
:04:58. > :05:03.will have to pay the price for doing that in terms of their own
:05:03. > :05:07.budget. That is a choice they are free to make. As this Lib Dem
:05:07. > :05:10.conference continues, delegates have a lot to think about. They say
:05:10. > :05:15.they are in government and underside, but clearly, there is
:05:15. > :05:18.work to be done if that message is to be accepted across the country.
:05:18. > :05:21.A short while ago I spoke to the Liberal Democrats Secretary of
:05:21. > :05:25.State of Scotland, Michael Moore MP, who's at the Birmingham Conference.
:05:25. > :05:28.I asked him first if he accepted the Tavish Scott view that the
:05:28. > :05:35.tuition fees decision had dropped his party into the gutter ahead of
:05:35. > :05:38.the Scottish election. We had a very difficult year, there
:05:38. > :05:44.were a number of difficult political choices in front of us,
:05:44. > :05:48.certainly tuition fees was one of them. That was one that we fail to
:05:48. > :05:54.convey properly in Scotland and elsewhere in the UK. It was also,
:05:54. > :05:57.frankly, and Tallis has spoken about this, about the difficult
:05:57. > :06:01.decisions on the deficit, tackling the deficit to get us out of the
:06:02. > :06:06.hole that we were left by the previous government. And any party
:06:06. > :06:14.trying to get elected against that backdrop was facing difficulties
:06:14. > :06:18.and we suffer the consequences and Scotland. I wonder if MPs... I
:06:18. > :06:22.wonder if Lib Dem MPs like you will suffer the same fate that the next
:06:22. > :06:28.to the UK general election throws up of the economy has not recovered
:06:28. > :06:33.by then? We're certainly putting key emphasis on the economy. The
:06:33. > :06:38.first part of this is to get the deficit under control. The Devils
:06:38. > :06:42.at reduction plan has got to work and we have got to see growth. --
:06:42. > :06:46.deficit reduction plan. We have focused on that in the last year.
:06:46. > :06:50.At the conference here, we heard from Danny Alexander and Nick Clegg
:06:50. > :06:53.so far about the priority and making sure we do everything we can
:06:53. > :06:56.to get investment and infrastructure and to make sure
:06:57. > :07:01.that we are teasing out the different parts of the economy to
:07:01. > :07:04.get people employed in to get bank's lending and to make sure
:07:04. > :07:11.businesses have what they need to create the future sustainable
:07:11. > :07:14.growth that has been sadly lacking in the past decade. It is
:07:14. > :07:18.interesting the policies you have set out, because one of your
:07:18. > :07:22.colleagues said tonight that a party will be slaughtered at the
:07:22. > :07:28.elections if there isn't economic recovery and he said that what you
:07:28. > :07:34.need to do in order to drive the recovery is to invest more in
:07:34. > :07:38.infrastructure and capital investment. I hope that he has been
:07:38. > :07:41.listening carefully to what Danny Alexander said yesterday about
:07:41. > :07:47.their half-a- billion pounds of additional funding that will be
:07:47. > :07:52.focused on the infrastructure or investment that we need. We're
:07:52. > :07:54.investing in science, we are looking at the state of the
:07:54. > :07:59.infrastructure and at broadband roll-out, and everywhere the
:07:59. > :08:04.Government is spending, we're making sure that it is really about
:08:04. > :08:08.the economy. We spend as a government something like �700
:08:08. > :08:13.billion every year and we need to make sure that this is as bogus as
:08:13. > :08:17.possible in getting people in jobs, rebalancing the economy, which has
:08:17. > :08:21.been skewed in the last few years. If you don't spend more in this
:08:21. > :08:27.area, does admit to an enemy of crows as a minister in his
:08:27. > :08:31.coalition government? -- does it make to an enemy. No, we need to
:08:31. > :08:34.get the deficit under control and make sensible decisions about how
:08:34. > :08:38.we spend money and we need to give confidence to the market that we
:08:38. > :08:42.can deliver cred debate on the economic plan and I believe in the
:08:42. > :08:46.last year, we have been establishing that. He cannot forget
:08:46. > :08:50.that the deficit was bigger than any of the other countries that
:08:50. > :08:54.struggled in the last year and we are currently enjoying some of the
:08:54. > :08:58.lowest interest rates if any body in Europe, which is vital to help
:08:58. > :09:03.businesses to invest. It is vital to get individuals back on their
:09:03. > :09:09.feet after what were very tough economic times. It also tells us
:09:09. > :09:11.how bad the economic position is. Let me ask about the coming days
:09:11. > :09:16.when we will hear from the Scottish government, their budget plans, no
:09:16. > :09:22.doubt they will say you should be spending more on capital investment
:09:22. > :09:27.like Lord or pshaw, but they will also no doubt be saying that the
:09:27. > :09:30.devolved administration needs more economic clout in order to drive
:09:30. > :09:35.economic growth in Scotland, more cloud then you're proposing in the
:09:35. > :09:40.Scotland Bill, do you support that agenda? Let's remember what is in
:09:40. > :09:45.the Scotland Bill. Substantial new powers on borrowing, Paris that we
:09:45. > :09:53.will be very access to so the Scottish government can get on with
:09:53. > :09:57.infrastructure projects. -- Paras that we will be accessing go to the
:09:57. > :10:03.Scottish government. We believe we have a broad range of support
:10:03. > :10:06.across political parties in Scotland and in civics society. The
:10:06. > :10:12.Scottish government has other proposals, corporation tax been one
:10:12. > :10:15.of those, had we have said that we need to make the case, listen to
:10:15. > :10:19.the points that we are making, answered those points and we will
:10:19. > :10:23.consider that in the round. Frankly we have lacked detail from the
:10:23. > :10:28.Scottish government. My colleague in the Treasury put key questions
:10:28. > :10:31.about the cost of corporation tax been transferred and about the
:10:31. > :10:35.behavioural impacts it would have and the huge cost of reducing
:10:35. > :10:39.Scottish tax to Irish levels which is the Scottish government's
:10:39. > :10:44.aspirations. That makes it sound like you're against, but at the
:10:44. > :10:49.same time, you're talking about Holyrood racing all of the money
:10:49. > :10:54.that it spends in setting up a commission to get exactly that.
:10:54. > :10:58.Surely be two positions and inconsistent? What we have said is
:10:58. > :11:03.the case for corporation tax has to be made with care, in detail and
:11:03. > :11:06.has to answer some pretty fundamental concerns. What we
:11:06. > :11:11.Rennie and I ate together are wanting colleagues in the Scottish
:11:11. > :11:20.party to do is to look at how home rule should be refashioned in the
:11:20. > :11:26.21st century. -- what really -- what Willie Rennie and I are doing.
:11:26. > :11:30.That is an important process that looks at devolution in the last two
:11:30. > :11:35.decades in building AND developing consensus and working through to
:11:35. > :11:40.implement its, but there is a lot of assertion but not a lot of
:11:40. > :11:45.detail. Might you're Lib Dem proposals for Holyrood to raise all
:11:45. > :11:55.of the money include corporation tax being devolved in some shape or
:11:55. > :11:56.
:11:56. > :11:59.We're saying we will look again at work done in previous exercises by
:11:59. > :12:06.the party. We are proud and Scotland of what we have done over
:12:06. > :12:10.the years to make the case for devolution. More recently, we
:12:10. > :12:14.brought our ideas into it and persuaded others to come on board
:12:14. > :12:19.and join us, and we got consensus. Yet again, we are looking carefully
:12:19. > :12:24.at what is best suited for Scotland. We will look at it, build the case
:12:24. > :12:31.and seek to build consensus. Beyond that, we will look to see where
:12:31. > :12:39.Scotland wants to go. Corporation tax might be part of it, I guess or
:12:39. > :12:44.no? What I have said so far is that the Scottish government is going to
:12:44. > :12:47.make the case and have submitted a paper. We have asked fundamental
:12:47. > :12:50.questions and I look forward to the questions as I am sure you do as
:12:50. > :12:52.well. Now, to what's probably the last in
:12:52. > :12:55.our series of interviews with candidates for the Scottish Tory
:12:55. > :12:58.Leadership. Nominations close at the end of this week. Ruth Davidson
:12:58. > :13:03.wants to lead the party in its current form, having rejected as
:13:03. > :13:13.destabilising Murdo Fraser's ideas for a new brand altogether. So
:13:13. > :13:14.
:13:14. > :13:19.what's her big idea for making the Tory brand a bit less toxic?
:13:19. > :13:23.What emerged that a campaign launch was what she called a lane in the
:13:23. > :13:29.sand over new powers for Holyrood and she promised that she would
:13:29. > :13:32.lead the party back to power in Scotland within a decade. Real
:13:32. > :13:36.change for the Scottish Conservatives will not come from a
:13:36. > :13:41.new name. Real progress will come when we start talking to people
:13:41. > :13:46.about the issues that really matter to them. Political office is new to
:13:46. > :13:51.Ruth Davidson. She registered barely 2000 votes in Glasgow Kelvin
:13:51. > :13:57.in May's election to the Scottish Parliament, getting in by way of
:13:57. > :14:01.the Glasgow last. At 32, she is the youngest candidate and enjoys those
:14:01. > :14:06.cliches of political journalism about youthfulness, fresh-faced and
:14:06. > :14:14.so on. Here is the irony. She is getting support from the more
:14:14. > :14:17.traditional wing of the party, establishment icons like Lord
:14:17. > :14:22.Forsyth and Lord Sanderson enthusiastically backing her
:14:22. > :14:28.candidacy. Combined with a cautious policy approach, many regard has
:14:28. > :14:33.the status quo option. Ruth Davidson is a former BBC presenter
:14:33. > :14:41.and has served in the Territorial Army. This is no doubt come in
:14:41. > :14:46.handy in what could be a bruising contest. Ruth Davidson joins me now.
:14:46. > :14:52.Let's start with fundamentals. What makes you a Conservative? I am a
:14:52. > :14:57.Conservative, I believe in strong families, support for the family. I
:14:57. > :15:00.believe in helping business and supporting entrepreneurs, I believe
:15:00. > :15:04.in it strong law and order policies. If these are conservative values I
:15:04. > :15:10.believe can resonate across Scotland. Let us test your
:15:10. > :15:14.instincts. Does prison work? think it can, yes. Should we be
:15:14. > :15:19.locking up more people convicted of crimes? I think we should have a
:15:19. > :15:24.punishment that fits the crime and one of the things I have proposed
:15:24. > :15:29.is that I think in Scotland we should have an effective life
:15:29. > :15:32.tariff for the worst crimes. There are some crimes so heinous in our
:15:32. > :15:38.society some people should not be allowed back out. Why should mean
:15:38. > :15:44.life? I believe so. What about the economy? The top rate of income tax
:15:44. > :15:48.is 50p, should it stay that way? the moment I think it should.
:15:48. > :15:51.the duration of this Westminster Parliament? I think that is a
:15:51. > :15:55.question for the Treasury and George Osborne, I am willing to
:15:55. > :15:58.follow his lead. I believe in smaller government and smaller tax
:15:58. > :16:03.generally but there are times when we need to set our tax
:16:03. > :16:10.proportionately. We need to set tax progressively. Would you like to
:16:10. > :16:15.get rid of the 50 pence rate? aspiration when we are on a server
:16:15. > :16:20.financial footing and have got rid of her debt. Do you support minimum
:16:20. > :16:23.pricing, minimum unit pricing for a call? I don't believe in blanket
:16:23. > :16:28.minimum unit pricing for alcohol because that is using a hammer to
:16:28. > :16:32.crack an egg. We need to look at where the problems are, problem
:16:32. > :16:36.drinks and problem drinkers. I think that pricing absolutely has a
:16:36. > :16:41.part to play in helping weans Scotland off its drink addiction.
:16:41. > :16:44.In terms of minimum unit price and I do not think that Mrs Sally it
:16:44. > :16:49.addresses the problems we see in our states. If what would you do
:16:49. > :16:55.instead? I think we need to go through the tax and duty system. I
:16:55. > :16:58.think we need to look at things like strong ciders and what we
:16:58. > :17:04.called tonic wines on the BBC but people across the central belt will
:17:04. > :17:08.know what I am referring to. You're referring to but fast. I was not
:17:08. > :17:14.sure if we were allowed to use brand-names. Talking about strong
:17:14. > :17:18.ciders and things like alcopops. If we are allowed to use brand-names,
:17:18. > :17:23.ones which encourage younger drinkers, things like Mad Dog
:17:23. > :17:28.Twenty20. He would put up tax but only on a UK basis. He only UN
:17:28. > :17:33.products which are a problem. Questions about what kind of Tory
:17:33. > :17:37.were, would you describe yourself as a traditionalist? Are you the
:17:37. > :17:41.status quo candidate? I don't think it is fair to describe me as a
:17:41. > :17:45.status quo candidate. I don't believe that changing the name of a
:17:45. > :17:48.party or dissolving it or reconstituting a new party that
:17:48. > :17:54.would sit in coalition with the Westminster Conservatives at is the
:17:54. > :17:57.auction. That is Murdo Fraser's big idea, what is years? I want to see
:17:57. > :18:01.real change that comes from a generational change, a change in
:18:01. > :18:05.leadership. What we have seen in political history both at
:18:05. > :18:10.Westminster where we saw a Labour Party that was told in the early
:18:11. > :18:14.1990s it could not won again and then Tony Blair came forward.
:18:14. > :18:18.have mentioned that you are younger and fresher perhaps in some ways
:18:18. > :18:23.than the other candidates in this contest, but that is not enough,
:18:23. > :18:27.surely? I think what I offer is a clear and positive vision for the
:18:27. > :18:30.future of the party and the country. I have the energy to drive that
:18:30. > :18:34.country and the will and the ability, I believe, to reconnect
:18:34. > :18:37.with people in Scotland to perhaps stop listening to the Conservatives.
:18:37. > :18:42.Some people were worried about a lack of experience given that you
:18:42. > :18:45.have just been elected to Holyrood. You rival, Murdo Fraser, says that
:18:45. > :18:50.anyone wanting to be a leader has to demonstrate they can win over
:18:50. > :18:55.the people they work with first of all. Why are both -- most MSPs
:18:55. > :18:58.backing him and not you? There are a number of MSPs who have not
:18:58. > :19:03.declared yet but what is very interesting is that for the first
:19:03. > :19:06.time in Scotland, this election is not for the leader of the Scottish
:19:06. > :19:16.Conservative group at Holyrood. pretty important part of the job.
:19:16. > :19:22.
:19:22. > :19:26.All contenders are MSPs. This election is to win to be the leader
:19:26. > :19:30.of the entire party in Scotland for St do it. Speaking to a number of
:19:30. > :19:35.people who have come out for model, and if you few the up, it for me,
:19:35. > :19:40.they're not anti- one person they are another, they are pro Murdo
:19:40. > :19:48.Fraser and the absolutely would serve in a conservative group in
:19:48. > :19:52.Holyrood that I am the leader of. On that, would Murdo Fraser have a
:19:52. > :19:57.job in your team? I have been incredibly clear all through this
:19:57. > :20:01.that I want everybody elected in the Scottish Conservative and
:20:01. > :20:09.Unionist Party to serve and that party. That's not met Sally I yes,
:20:09. > :20:12.is it? It is absolutely yes. I will read it through the ranks. If it
:20:12. > :20:18.when the other way, we deserve under the leadership of either of
:20:18. > :20:22.your rivals? Absolutely. Going by some of Murdo Fraser's proposals,
:20:23. > :20:28.if he goes so far as to reconstitute a new party and it is
:20:28. > :20:31.more of a new change -- name change, then I think the party has to
:20:31. > :20:36.decide that is the route that is going to go down. Would he joined
:20:36. > :20:39.his new party? I would have to see what it involves and you would have
:20:39. > :20:42.to know a lot more details but these are really questions for
:20:42. > :20:47.Murdo Fraser. If he is proposing a whole new per 10 Scotland... What
:20:47. > :20:52.he's blue at the party in Scotland? These are questions he would have
:20:52. > :20:55.to ask him. I am asking for your view? It very much depends on him
:20:55. > :20:59.because we have not heard all that he is proposing. What we have to
:20:59. > :21:04.acknowledge is that the party has to be involved in any process down
:21:04. > :21:08.that route. We its stock about your progress. Has devolution work in
:21:08. > :21:12.your view? I think it is here to stay but it could work better. It
:21:12. > :21:17.has got very positive elements and one other thing is we have talked
:21:17. > :21:23.about during this campaign has been the Scotland Bill that is about to
:21:23. > :21:27.happen. Why should not Holyrood have more power? Why should the
:21:27. > :21:32.Scotland Bill be a line in the stand? As I was saying at the
:21:32. > :21:36.launch event, let us get it working first at and implement it. I am
:21:36. > :21:40.standing with the Prime Minister, with Annabel Goldie, with David
:21:40. > :21:44.McLetchie and others she had been talking about in Liberal Democrats
:21:44. > :21:48.like Danny Alexander, people like Tavish Scott. Are you saying you
:21:48. > :21:52.are not against more power but just not now? I am saying let us see
:21:52. > :21:56.this walking before looking to the next thing. Not a lane and Nissan
:21:56. > :22:02.then? I want to see a the Scotland Bill working on the ground. We may
:22:02. > :22:04.need to tweak things are in the future but if you're talking about
:22:04. > :22:12.things like reversing corporation tax I do not believe that is the
:22:12. > :22:18.right thing to do just now. Ruth Davidson, thank you. Let's take a
:22:18. > :22:24.quick look at tomorrow's papers. quick look at tomorrow's papers.
:22:24. > :22:29.Cable put a UK or more fitting. There's a picture of Andy Murray
:22:29. > :22:38.and his girlfriend on the front page there. A similar picture and
:22:38. > :22:42.the Daily Mail. The headline is a look ahead to the Scottish but it
:22:43. > :22:45.on Wednesday. The Times front page goes on at the
:22:45. > :22:48.payout in a packing case. That's payout in a packing case. That's