:00:02. > :00:12.pension was achieved during my employment as a Member of
:00:12. > :00:19.
:00:19. > :00:29.Outdated, negative and opposing new ideas for the sake of it. That is
:00:29. > :00:29.
:00:29. > :00:33.the blunt reaction from Douglas Alexander. He will be talking about
:00:33. > :00:37.why the Scottish election went so wrong.
:00:37. > :00:41.Designs in Scotland but made by North Koreans. Has the Edinburgh
:00:41. > :00:45.woollen Mill been pulling the wool over our eyes?
:00:46. > :00:48.It is clear the Labour Party has decided if it's going to win
:00:48. > :00:53.another General Election it had better secure its traditional
:00:53. > :00:56.heartlands. Ed Miliband has appointed a brand new Shadow
:00:56. > :00:59.Secretary of State for Scotland and a strategist has been doing some
:01:00. > :01:06.truth and reconciliation with the Scottish audience. All that before
:01:06. > :01:14.the Scottish party's search for a new leader get serious.
:01:14. > :01:18.The sacking of an McCracken and the promotion of Margaret Curran as
:01:18. > :01:23.leader as the Scottish party had been rumoured. Shadow ministers can
:01:23. > :01:32.keep an eye on the country's interests across Westminster,
:01:32. > :01:36.something the SNP cannot do. When the shadow Foreign Secretary,
:01:36. > :01:41.Douglas Alexander spoke at Stirling University, his speech was focused
:01:41. > :01:48.on his party's failure to put up much of a fight in the election
:01:48. > :01:51.this year. They did better when he had a leading role in the campaign.
:01:51. > :01:56.There is little in this document which could not be delivered right
:01:56. > :02:01.now by a Scottish Secretary in the UK cabinet. Labour says it is
:02:01. > :02:08.offering Scottish solutions to Scottish problems. Many head of UK
:02:08. > :02:13.thinking. Douglas Alexander was the parent of Labour's successful
:02:13. > :02:17.divorce campaign in 1999 and was reported to have said his job was
:02:17. > :02:24.to engender fear. He said he was against using that tactic, but it
:02:24. > :02:26.is not clear or his colleagues agree. Westminster's Labour-
:02:27. > :02:31.dominated select committee launched an investigation this week into
:02:31. > :02:35.what they call separation for Scotland. An opinion poll suggested
:02:35. > :02:40.the SNP are leading Labour by seven points in Westminster voting
:02:40. > :02:45.intentions. Douglas Alexander joins me now. One
:02:45. > :02:49.of the phrases in your speech, you talked about the diminishing of the
:02:49. > :02:54.emotive power of the key events and individuals who had previously
:02:54. > :03:02.sustained Labour's story. You would presumably accept Alex Salmond is a
:03:02. > :03:08.powerful individual in sustaining the SNP's story? You need someone
:03:08. > :03:11.hefty to take him on? The person I had mind -- had in mind was
:03:11. > :03:16.Margaret Thatcher. That was one of the points I was trying to make in
:03:16. > :03:21.a lecture this evening. We need to move beyond the politics that
:03:21. > :03:26.defines our purpose in relation to Scotland's past. We need politics
:03:26. > :03:31.that speaks not only patriot is an but possibility. But, you need a
:03:31. > :03:36.leader, someone who can take on Alex Salmond. At the moment you do
:03:36. > :03:41.not have that? There will be a leadership contest. But you need
:03:41. > :03:47.ideas. But you also need an individual? I wouldn't dispute that
:03:47. > :03:51.and there is a processed -- process we would choose a leader. But it is
:03:51. > :03:55.not a task for them alone to take on the work of rebuilding the
:03:55. > :04:00.Scottish Labour Party. I was trying to start an overdue conversation
:04:00. > :04:04.about the kind of changes we need to make. Are you telling me thing
:04:04. > :04:07.any of the current candidates to be leader of the Scottish Labour party
:04:07. > :04:11.have got the political stature and political ability to give Alex
:04:11. > :04:18.Salmond a run for his money? Let's see what they have to say when the
:04:18. > :04:23.contest gets under way. Ed Miliband does not know who they are. You
:04:23. > :04:27.know them only too well? Yes, I am interested in what they have got to
:04:28. > :04:32.save. One of the tests for all of them is to what extent they get the
:04:32. > :04:35.scale of the challenge we face. We secured one in eight votes of the
:04:35. > :04:38.Scottish people. On that is why there needs to be humility from
:04:38. > :04:43.Labour and and all of the candidates. But we need to do more
:04:43. > :04:47.than the humble. We need to reflect, listen and think our way through
:04:47. > :04:54.the challenge rephrase. That is what I was tried to contribute to
:04:54. > :04:59.this evening. There comes the obvious question, why don't you
:04:59. > :05:05.stand for the leader? Renewal is the task for more than one
:05:05. > :05:09.individual. Ultimately there will be a leader of the Scottish Labour
:05:09. > :05:12.Party. I have never bought the idea the only way you can effectively
:05:12. > :05:20.contribute to Scotland or the Labour Party is by standing in
:05:20. > :05:24.Holyrood. I explain, I stood in the meadows with damp feet in 1992
:05:24. > :05:27.arguing the case for devolution long before the devolution Act. We
:05:27. > :05:35.should have representatives doing a job for Scotland, not just in
:05:35. > :05:41.Holyrood but also in Westminster. Some people say the any place for
:05:41. > :05:48.Scots is Holyrood, I disagree. have a realistic chance of becoming
:05:48. > :05:54.shush shadow home secretary, and there is no problem with that
:05:54. > :05:59.ambition. But the situation is almost catastrophic. Surely in
:05:59. > :06:02.those circumstances, either you are one of the other big hitters like
:06:03. > :06:08.Jim Murphy and ought to be thinking if it is that bad, we ought to be
:06:08. > :06:11.getting involved in this and trying to sort it out. You seem to be
:06:11. > :06:15.damned if you do, damned if you don't. If you contribute to the
:06:15. > :06:20.debate, this is evidence that this is what you should do is stand. If
:06:20. > :06:24.you don't contribute, somehow you are not interested. There are ways
:06:24. > :06:29.we can all contribute and whoever emerges as the leader of the
:06:29. > :06:32.Scottish Labour Party, we have a job to do together. That is a nice
:06:32. > :06:36.piece of argument, but people watching will say, clearly they are
:06:36. > :06:40.worried about the future of the Scottish Labour Party. But the
:06:40. > :06:46.problem is, and this is where the SNP Scott, Douglas Alexander is
:06:46. > :06:51.very worried about this, but not worried about giving up his
:06:51. > :06:57.personal... There is the difference between me and Alex Salmond. Alex
:06:57. > :07:01.Salmond believes the only place for Scots to serve Scotland is Holyrood.
:07:02. > :07:05.I am a devolutionist. We need Scots in both places. I don't buy the
:07:05. > :07:09.argument that says the only talented Scots to show Labour
:07:09. > :07:15.values happen to be sitting in Westminster. I make the point, we
:07:15. > :07:19.need to do a much better job in opening our doors to make sure, I
:07:19. > :07:29.think a broad swathe of Scotland have Labour values but don't carry
:07:29. > :07:30.
:07:30. > :07:39.a Labour card, come to join our party. The problem with this, fine,
:07:39. > :07:45.everyone knows what Labour's party is on the Union. You see it as good
:07:46. > :07:53.potential. The crisis you have is not in the representation if Labour
:07:53. > :07:59.gets in... The crisis is not solely one of do we have John F Kennedy
:07:59. > :08:04.and Nelson Mandela sitting in the corner and we have not noticed them.
:08:04. > :08:07.I except leadership matters, but ideas matter as well. I was trying
:08:07. > :08:13.to say the story we tell about Scotland will have a material
:08:13. > :08:19.effect on whether we can attract the calibre... You're not going to
:08:19. > :08:25.enter the race? No, I am trying to start a conversation not a
:08:25. > :08:29.leadership campaign. This story you have referred to several times. It
:08:29. > :08:35.is not clear. Looking at most of your speech, apart from the stuff
:08:35. > :08:38.about independence, most members I would imagine of the Scottish
:08:38. > :08:44.National party, never mind people who vote for them, they say it is
:08:44. > :08:48.fine, I agree with that? There is a difference, if you define your
:08:48. > :08:51.politics by the establishment of a more equal Scotland in tough times.
:08:51. > :08:55.Let's be honest, the context in which Scottish politics will take
:08:55. > :08:59.place in the future is shaped by the constitution, but also the
:08:59. > :09:04.seismic changes we are seeing around the world. The challenge of
:09:04. > :09:08.delivering a Solidarity, a more socially just got one, which ensure
:09:08. > :09:13.more SNP members claim to be a key purpose, will be difficult to head
:09:13. > :09:18.when there is not much money around. My argument would be if we spend
:09:18. > :09:21.our time as a nation proving are different rather than improving the
:09:21. > :09:25.nation it takes politics in a different direction. John Swinney
:09:25. > :09:30.said himself, the most important aim of the SNP in this Parliament
:09:30. > :09:34.is to deliver above -- referendum. They are entitled to a point of
:09:34. > :09:40.view, they secured a mandate at the Scottish Parliament election. I am
:09:40. > :09:45.less interested in ending Britain, than ending poverty. If you start
:09:45. > :09:49.from a different place, you end up in a different destination.
:09:49. > :09:53.sure the SNP would point this out, you are saying Labour would reduce
:09:53. > :09:58.inequality in difficult financial circumstances. Labour did not
:09:58. > :10:03.manage to reduce inequality in Britain while ruling from 1999 in
:10:03. > :10:07.one of the biggest booms. If you look at the figures in pensioner
:10:07. > :10:15.poverty and Child poverty, there is evidence and indicators that show
:10:15. > :10:20.had it not been for the action we had taken, it would have got worse.
:10:20. > :10:24.It is right to say it after 2005, the forces drawing the economy a
:10:24. > :10:28.park continued to undertake their work. That is not an argument for
:10:28. > :10:33.me saying the task of unequal society should be given up on. We
:10:33. > :10:37.should be saying let's be focused on what we are trying to achieve.
:10:37. > :10:41.But we are diverted for years to come, the prospect of building the
:10:41. > :10:46.better Scotland are diminished. am sure the SNP wouldn't agree with
:10:46. > :10:52.that. So much so, you describe the SNP for the voter's attitude to the
:10:52. > :10:57.SNP, people are confident and broadly aligned with their values?
:10:57. > :11:02.It is an honest assessment why people voted SNP. We need to be
:11:02. > :11:05.honest with each other about the scale of defeat Labour suffered and
:11:05. > :11:10.understand the reasons the SNP appealed. My argument is our
:11:10. > :11:15.failure to offer the more possibility of the vision to what
:11:15. > :11:18.Scotland could be mean the SNP could use two excuses. They could
:11:18. > :11:23.blame part of it on the Conservatives in Westminster and
:11:23. > :11:26.the other one minority and we could not get much done. That combination
:11:26. > :11:30.of excuses when the benefit of the doubt from a lot of voters across
:11:30. > :11:35.the country. If we are able to raise our game, the Scottish
:11:35. > :11:38.National Party would be tested. They have a heavy responsibility,
:11:38. > :11:43.they have a majority in the Scottish Parliament, facing tough
:11:44. > :11:48.times. They should be held to account. What I am suggesting, in a
:11:48. > :11:53.way you have misunderstood the situation. You talk about the need
:11:53. > :11:57.for a Labour story about Scotland within the Union. But the reason
:11:58. > :12:02.this gobbing, as he described it, at the last Scottish election was
:12:02. > :12:06.not the Scottish nationalists converted the people of Scotland to
:12:06. > :12:10.nationalism, is because they stole from you the mantle of being the
:12:10. > :12:14.Social Democratic Party in Scotland? They are working hard
:12:14. > :12:18.both to steal that mantle and own the same optimism and possibility I
:12:18. > :12:25.would argue in large part, came from the sustained economic growth
:12:25. > :12:29.delivered by Labour between 1997 and 2007. I don't doubt it you get
:12:29. > :12:38.an SNP politician on the show, they will claim they are as socially
:12:38. > :12:43.Democratic as Labour. I would say as a Labour Party, we have had two
:12:43. > :12:47.caught believes over the last 100 years. One is a commitment to home
:12:47. > :12:51.rule. That is a commitment characterised by Solidarity and
:12:51. > :12:56.social justice. My burning frustration at the election is
:12:56. > :13:01.because I think that is what the Scottish people want. We need a
:13:01. > :13:07.better expression of politics and social justice and the commitment
:13:07. > :13:11.to Scotland's future. If the SNP Maj on to your social Democratic
:13:11. > :13:18.ground, and won a thumping majority in an election, it is not
:13:18. > :13:23.immediately obvious why people should think... Your speech does
:13:23. > :13:33.not contain a single policy proposal or idea that is
:13:33. > :13:34.
:13:34. > :13:37.fundamentally different from the There is something unsustainable
:13:37. > :13:47.Botha coalition which stretches from Brian Souter of to Tommy
:13:47. > :13:48.
:13:48. > :13:54.Sheridan. These are questions that that need to be answered.
:13:54. > :13:58.There was no mention of Calman in your speech. Why do not come up
:13:58. > :14:04.with some Labour proposal for home rule which is about more
:14:04. > :14:09.interesting? We debt, which is why we delivered
:14:09. > :14:17.the Scotland Act. -- we did. But the pragmatic response is to judge
:14:17. > :14:23.things on a case-by-case basis. That is not a vision. That does not
:14:23. > :14:27.make your case. We will have to leave it there. Newsnight has
:14:27. > :14:32.learned that the clothing chain, Edinburgh Woollen Mill, is selling
:14:32. > :14:38.garments made by North Koreans are working in Mongolia. The label's
:14:38. > :14:48.claim that they were made in Scotland from authentic Kashmir.
:14:48. > :14:54.
:14:54. > :14:59.Edinburgh. Tradition. The castle. Little craft shops where tourists
:14:59. > :15:03.by quality products. White these cashmere sweaters. Then the
:15:03. > :15:11.Edinburgh Woollen Mill. One of the largest clothing chains in the UK.
:15:11. > :15:20.I have just picked up one of their popular sweaters for �70. Marked
:15:20. > :15:25.down from �140. The label says: the James Pringle, designed in Scotland,
:15:25. > :15:35.100% Kashmir. But it does not say here, or on the company's website,
:15:35. > :15:52.
:15:52. > :15:57.where it was made. That is a little I have come to the other side of
:15:57. > :16:03.the world to find out exactly where of the sweater as are made. It
:16:03. > :16:10.turns out it is here, Mongolia, and industrials on on the outskirts of
:16:10. > :16:14.the capital, Bill and the tour. They are very proud to be working
:16:14. > :16:18.with Edinburgh Woollen Mill. They joined us five years ago and we
:16:18. > :16:25.have been working together since to develop product, developed quality,
:16:25. > :16:29.and to teach us how to be good export manufacturers.
:16:29. > :16:35.Mongolian shepherds are some of the world's most prolific producers of
:16:35. > :16:39.Kashmir. Slippers are no surprise that the will is sourced here. --
:16:40. > :16:44.so it is no surprise. But what is unexpected is that many of the
:16:44. > :16:50.workers here and Mongolia come from North Korea.
:16:50. > :16:55.The North Korean workers fit in very well. They are hard workers.
:16:55. > :17:03.They do not complain. There quite skilled. There looked after -
:17:03. > :17:07.dormitory, showers, television, food. They fit in the very well.
:17:07. > :17:12.They get food and board but there is a mystery about what happens to
:17:12. > :17:16.their wages. We were told that the farmer paid the North Korean
:17:16. > :17:24.government and not the workers directly. -- the company paid at
:17:24. > :17:29.the North Korean government. This is quality control.
:17:29. > :17:37.Can you show me something on its way to the UK?
:17:37. > :17:42.You can see one here. A James Pringle sweater. Machine washable.
:17:42. > :17:48.Exactly the same as the one repurchased in Edinburgh. Right
:17:48. > :17:54.down to the label. Designed in Scotland? Made in Mongolia by North
:17:54. > :17:59.Koreans. That is strange as North Korea is not exactly known for its
:17:59. > :18:07.stylish net where. It is better known for making missiles and
:18:07. > :18:12.testing nuclear weapons. It is the most regimented and repressive
:18:12. > :18:16.regime in itself. 200,000 people are held in concentration camps for
:18:16. > :18:20.incurring the wrath of the leader. And citizens are not allowed to
:18:20. > :18:27.leave the country without permission. They can be executed if
:18:27. > :18:33.they are caught fleeing. There is one exception - the Labour brigades.
:18:33. > :18:37.In its 2009 I revealed on Newsnight that a British owned in use --
:18:38. > :18:43.company was using North Korean labour to cut timber in Russia.
:18:43. > :18:47.Their wages were paid directly to the North Korean government. They
:18:47. > :18:51.are earning up to $7 million per year. That money goes straight to
:18:51. > :18:55.the North Korean government. Are you concerned about how the
:18:55. > :19:00.government uses that money? As far as our agreements are
:19:00. > :19:07.concerned the money goes to the North Korean Ministry of Forestry.
:19:07. > :19:12.How it is used is not our concern. While I was in Mongolia visiting
:19:12. > :19:16.the factory making sweaters for Edinburgh Woollen Mill I came
:19:16. > :19:22.across this construction site. There are about 50 North Korean
:19:22. > :19:25.workers here. This is where they eat, sleep and work. The Mongolian
:19:26. > :19:29.security guards are instructed not to let them beyond the fence.
:19:29. > :19:33.Thousands of North Koreans have been brought here in the last few
:19:33. > :19:38.years in a very profitable arrangement for private companies
:19:38. > :19:42.exploiting all try cheap labour. But how much do the workers benefit
:19:42. > :19:45.personally? A Mongolian are running a kiosk next door to the
:19:45. > :19:50.construction site told me he initially thought that the North
:19:50. > :19:54.Koreans were prisoners because they were never allowed off the site.
:19:54. > :19:59.When I returned to the factory where the sweaters are made for
:19:59. > :20:03.Edinburgh Woollen Mill the local company's director of exports told
:20:03. > :20:07.me that has North Korean workers were treated better and allowed to
:20:07. > :20:10.leave the factory. But as regards their wages he said they paid the
:20:10. > :20:14.North Korean government and it was up to them how much of it made its
:20:14. > :20:24.way to the workers. I understand that you pay the government then
:20:24. > :20:39.
:20:39. > :20:45.the government pay the workers, Saw, North Korea is effectively
:20:45. > :20:49.exporting its workforce to raise money for the regime. Is this
:20:49. > :20:54.factory which makes Edinburgh Woollen Mill's sweaters are
:20:54. > :20:59.effectively subsidising Kim Jong deal. I went back to ask if the
:20:59. > :21:02.company were happy with this. They confirmed that the factory is can -
:21:02. > :21:08.- supplying them with cashmere jumpers and admitted they were
:21:08. > :21:12.being made by a workforce including North Koreans. But to my surprise,
:21:12. > :21:20.Edinburgh Woollen Mill would not confirm what we were already told
:21:20. > :21:28.about how the North Koreans were paid. They claimed that call on --
:21:28. > :21:33.they claimed that: that is in stark contrast to what we were told on
:21:33. > :21:39.the ground. They claim and that all the wages are paid into the
:21:39. > :21:43.Walker's bank accounts. Difficult to square with what we were told.
:21:43. > :21:53.They claim that the North Koreans are freely left the country to look
:21:53. > :21:55.
:21:55. > :22:01.Again, that is difficult to reconcile with a nation that
:22:01. > :22:07.executes people for attempting to flee. I wanted to talk to the North
:22:07. > :22:12.Koreans at the factory but the embassy said, no. I wanted to ask
:22:12. > :22:17.how much they made personally from the arrangement. Then factory
:22:17. > :22:21.officials prevented us filming and escorted us outside. Edinburgh
:22:21. > :22:26.Woollen Mill told us that labelling garments made in Mongolia as
:22:26. > :22:30.designed in Scotland is factually correct. But although there is no
:22:30. > :22:34.longer a legal requirement to label clothes with their country of
:22:34. > :22:38.origin it is an offence to mislead customers about where a company is
:22:38. > :22:42.made. The Trading Standards Institute told us that on the face
:22:42. > :22:52.of it labelling a jumper as designed in Scotland but not saying
:22:52. > :23:02.where it was made could be in A quick look at tomorrow's front
:23:02. > :23:05.
:23:05. > :23:13.pages. The Times: more news on Liam Fox. The Daily Telegraph: a more