27/10/2011

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:00:08. > :00:11.attitude on the periphery. Tonight on Newsnight Scotland, when you're

:00:11. > :00:14.choosing a school for your child, every parent wants the best, so

:00:14. > :00:22.what information should be available to inform that choice? Is

:00:23. > :00:25.new government policy making the whole process more difficult?

:00:25. > :00:28.And, what are the magic ingredients that have made Glasgow an

:00:28. > :00:31.internationally renowned centre for contemporary art?

:00:31. > :00:33.Good evening. What's your first thought when the government decides

:00:33. > :00:36.to stop letting you see information? No doubt you are

:00:36. > :00:39.suspicious. So what is behind the move by the education department to

:00:39. > :00:42.stop collating and publishing statistics on the number of so-

:00:42. > :00:45.called placing requests by parents who are trying to get their child

:00:45. > :00:48.into another school? It has confounded educationalists who

:00:48. > :00:50.believe tables of information help parents and policy-makers and it

:00:50. > :01:00.coincides with an initiative in Edinburgh to encourage pupils to

:01:00. > :01:11.

:01:11. > :01:16.use their local school rather than It may be the best years of our

:01:17. > :01:22.lives, but it can be an agony for parents. Choosing a school for your

:01:22. > :01:26.little darlings is an enshrined right. It didn't used to be. You

:01:26. > :01:34.have no choice until the 1980s but to send your child to be designated

:01:35. > :01:41.local score -- school. But since placing requests came in, thousands

:01:41. > :01:48.of families opt for a different establishment. At the last count

:01:48. > :01:53.two years ago, it was nearly 30,000. The government had been collecting

:01:53. > :01:58.the figures for years and publishing them. Now after a review

:01:58. > :02:05.and a consultation, they have decided to ask government bean-

:02:05. > :02:10.counters to start adding them up. Does it matter? Evidence is

:02:10. > :02:17.required for public policy. It will be known by government, local

:02:17. > :02:22.authorities and schools. What has been ended is the ability for

:02:22. > :02:27.parents and other people to get hold of that figures.

:02:27. > :02:30.placements remain a central part of the educational system. Parents

:02:30. > :02:35.value the opportunity they have to make a choice. They might not

:02:35. > :02:42.exercise their right, but they welcome that opportunity. And for

:02:42. > :02:49.those who do want to choose the school their child goes to will be

:02:49. > :02:52.against the restriction. There is little doubt that there is pressure

:02:52. > :02:58.on councils to keep control of requests as parents make their own

:02:58. > :03:02.judgment of the schools on offer. Some of the schools are very poor.

:03:02. > :03:06.We have a parental charter and parents can choose the school that

:03:06. > :03:10.they send their children to and what we are doing is encouraging

:03:10. > :03:15.parents to go to their local catchment school before they enrol

:03:15. > :03:19.their children, told to the head teacher, have a look round and talk

:03:19. > :03:23.to the children. I think they will be pleasantly surprised. We are

:03:24. > :03:30.trying to persuade parents to use their local primary school. Taken

:03:30. > :03:34.together, you might be forgiven for thinking there is a trend

:03:34. > :03:44.developing. Don't bother the council and ignore the fact that

:03:44. > :03:47.

:03:48. > :03:49.many parents and others are I'm joined now from Edinburgh by

:03:50. > :03:59.Lindsay Paterson, Professor of Educational Policy at Edinburgh

:04:00. > :04:01.

:04:01. > :04:07.University and by the former leader of East Lothain Council Dave Berry.

:04:07. > :04:10.This rather detailed point about statistics. This particular set of

:04:10. > :04:14.statistics, and nationwide figure of how many parents are choosing to

:04:14. > :04:18.send their children outside the catchment area - why is it

:04:18. > :04:25.important for parents that it should be there? The annual

:04:25. > :04:28.publication is more detailed than that. You have the figures from all

:04:28. > :04:32.local authorities and you get it separately for primary and

:04:33. > :04:38.secondary schools. As the general evaluation of how content parents

:04:38. > :04:41.are with local schools, they are a broad and valuable contribution to

:04:41. > :04:48.the public debate. They are not everything that is needed because

:04:48. > :04:57.you need more research, but as a starting point for debate, it is

:04:57. > :05:04.invaluable. Presumably, is it right the trend has been upwards? Slowly

:05:04. > :05:09.upwards. It grows very rapidly at first and has risen slowly since

:05:09. > :05:18.the legislation was in Greece. Once more schools are fall, especially

:05:18. > :05:22.when local authorities are under financial pressures, local are up

:05:22. > :05:28.his -- local authorities cannot refuse a placement on the grounds

:05:28. > :05:36.of cost. The other thing that is new is this role that Primary One

:05:36. > :05:44.class sizes are capped at 25. It means that they are having to

:05:44. > :05:53.enjoy another -- employee another teacher or build another classroom.

:05:53. > :06:03.Essentially it is stable, but stable at a high level. But the

:06:03. > :06:05.

:06:05. > :06:12.problem is that officially, although it is ambiguous, parental

:06:12. > :06:18.choice was encouraged. Now there are legal caps on class sizes which

:06:18. > :06:26.militate against parents having a choice. Scotland is ambivalent

:06:26. > :06:36.about placemen choice. It was introduced in the 1980s and became

:06:36. > :06:39.

:06:39. > :06:48.instantly very popular. Everyone knows they the right - that

:06:48. > :06:53.everyone knows they have been right to make a choice. No political

:06:53. > :06:57.party it will touch with a barge pole any formal proposal to end the

:06:57. > :07:00.bike to a placement requests, but all of them apart from the

:07:00. > :07:06.Conservatives are trying to nudge in that direction and therefore we

:07:06. > :07:10.end up with a confused situation. This is the problem. There is an

:07:10. > :07:16.ambivalence towards this. Everyone will say parental choice is a great

:07:16. > :07:22.thing, but the legal cab at 25, irrespective of its merits on its

:07:22. > :07:31.own terms, the effect of that has been to deprive parents of choice.

:07:31. > :07:34.Edinburgh council to they said that almost 40% of parents who requested

:07:34. > :07:38.a school outside their catchment area were rejected this time

:07:38. > :07:42.compared to about only 10 or 11 % the year before. That is the direct

:07:43. > :07:52.result of this cap. A I am not surprised they had been rejected

:07:53. > :07:54.

:07:54. > :08:04.because there are limited places because of the changes in the

:08:04. > :08:04.

:08:04. > :08:07.classroom size. Education is for the children and parents need to

:08:07. > :08:12.understand that academic achievement is not the only factor.

:08:12. > :08:20.Children go to school to get an education and that includes social

:08:20. > :08:24.skills. If they spend their time travelling to and from the locals

:08:24. > :08:31.call -- to and from a school outside the catchment area, they

:08:31. > :08:35.are not making friends locally. parents are thinking of the state

:08:35. > :08:45.are telling me they do not want me to choose which call my parents go

:08:45. > :08:48.to. -- which school. We are not trying to stop people doing things.

:08:48. > :08:53.Parents have to understand the broader picture before they make

:08:53. > :08:58.that choice. No-one is arguing about taking the choice the way,

:08:58. > :09:02.but parents are generally not experience about the education

:09:02. > :09:06.system. They have not had a lot of interaction with it and there are

:09:06. > :09:12.other factors that they need have an understanding of. Just shipping

:09:12. > :09:17.a child across the city may not be the right thing. Everyone would

:09:17. > :09:21.agree with what has just been said. Of course you want children --

:09:21. > :09:24.parents to look at their local school, but that quickly shades

:09:24. > :09:34.into you are a nuisance because you want your child to go to a school

:09:34. > :09:43.

:09:43. > :09:49.that does not suit us, the We know from research that most of

:09:49. > :09:52.the influence on children's progress is inherited. Of

:09:52. > :09:58.environmental influence, about three-quarters come from parents

:09:58. > :10:03.and family. On the one-quarter from school. Parents are the major

:10:03. > :10:06.influence on their children's progress. The practice not to

:10:06. > :10:11.exercise the right of parents would replace their child flies in the

:10:11. > :10:16.face of evidence. I know one of the things you were floating when

:10:16. > :10:20.you're running East Lothian was some sort of, I presume it was an

:10:20. > :10:23.attempt to get the sense of community, was taking schools

:10:23. > :10:28.partially outside of the control of local authorities. Did anything

:10:28. > :10:33.happen with that? The difficulty we have with that was that engaging

:10:33. > :10:37.with the local community and having people take responsibility for the

:10:37. > :10:41.running of the schools, even partially, we did not get enough

:10:41. > :10:46.enthusiasm. Obviously, we have to be prepared to give up some of

:10:46. > :10:51.Faherty, but there has to be people ready to take it on and look at how

:10:52. > :10:59.we can run the school. The issue here is the community. Education

:10:59. > :11:05.does not happen in a vacuum. Each of our towns in East Lothian have a

:11:05. > :11:15.very good community. But children, the parents are all part of the

:11:15. > :11:15.

:11:15. > :11:23.same community. We would much rather they stayed in the community.

:11:23. > :11:27.There is more for the children. you see this being resolved in any

:11:27. > :11:32.satisfactory way, Lindsay Paterson? You suggested area that politicians

:11:32. > :11:37.have every interest in not talking about this. I do not think it will

:11:37. > :11:41.be resolved. The dilemma for politicians is it is expensive and

:11:42. > :11:46.causes planning difficulties. But the genie is out of the bottle and

:11:46. > :11:52.it has been out of the bottle since the Conservatives introduced this

:11:52. > :11:59.legislation 30 years ago. It cannot be put back in. I do not see any

:11:59. > :12:04.sense of turning back the tide, four and a desire to do so. We

:12:04. > :12:09.should be encouraging parental involvement in education. I would

:12:09. > :12:13.like to say I am very much for that as well, but the schools need to be

:12:13. > :12:17.comparable. There cannot be a huge range of capabilities within the

:12:17. > :12:25.schools. They must be equal in status then the parental drive will

:12:25. > :12:31.be limited. We will have to leave this particular discussion there.

:12:31. > :12:35.It may not be apparent to many of its citizens, but Glasgow is world

:12:35. > :12:40.famous for something more edifying than poor health and heavy drinking.

:12:40. > :12:48.We have produced five Turner Prize winners and have a 50-50 chance of

:12:48. > :12:57.producing another one. Two of the four nominees are based in Glasgow.

:12:57. > :13:06.What attracts artists to live and He Glasgow has been one of the most

:13:06. > :13:11.creative and inventive cities in the world. At the heart of design.

:13:11. > :13:16.But after the Second World War, the city entered a decline as its

:13:17. > :13:22.industrial base was eroded. Something happened in the 1980s

:13:22. > :13:25.that turned Glasgow from a post- industrial city down on its luck

:13:25. > :13:29.into one of the most important artistic cities not only in Britain,

:13:29. > :13:35.but in the world. For those in the know, they say

:13:35. > :13:42.this cannot be emphasised enough. People recognise Glasgow as a

:13:42. > :13:47.centre for art as they do with New York, London and Berlin. People in

:13:47. > :13:51.Glasgow do not realise this is what they are recognised for. And if

:13:51. > :13:56.proof was needed of Glasgow's success, a yardstick is the Turner

:13:56. > :14:06.Prize. Since 1986 there have been 12 finalists from the city and five

:14:06. > :14:09.

:14:09. > :14:13.of them have been winners. It is a good city to work from. You can be

:14:13. > :14:17.out and socialise and be part of everything that is going on, or you

:14:18. > :14:23.can hide away and get on with things. For me it was always about

:14:23. > :14:33.people. The art school, and the transmission Gallery became an

:14:33. > :14:38.

:14:38. > :14:42.He the Glasgow School of Art is the foundation on which the Glasgow Art

:14:42. > :14:46.Scene has been built. Because Glasgow was in a situation where

:14:46. > :14:53.there was not a great deal going on it created a ground zero which was

:14:53. > :14:58.quite excited the -- exciting for people to make art and music. There

:14:58. > :15:03.was an upsurge of lots of grass roots activity from the 1970s.

:15:03. > :15:06.Transmission Gallery, the women's gallery, they all had their genesis

:15:06. > :15:13.in that moment which was quite economically depressed and there

:15:13. > :15:17.was not much art infrastructure. You might hear some hyperbole from

:15:17. > :15:22.certain quarters saying it is the centre of contemporary art in

:15:22. > :15:26.Europe or the UK. They are kind of right outside of London, may be

:15:26. > :15:30.Berlin, Glasgow is the place. People will look back on this

:15:30. > :15:39.period and say it is an extraordinary explosion of talent

:15:39. > :15:43.and different ways of thinking of doing art. In 2001 there were 415

:15:43. > :15:49.professional artists. It is estimated there are more now. They

:15:49. > :15:52.contribute millions to the Glasgow economy. In 2006, Glasgow

:15:52. > :15:56.International was very successful and an economic survey was done.

:15:56. > :16:01.They found for every point that they spent on Glasgow International,

:16:01. > :16:05.�9 came back. That was a real tipping point and made people and

:16:05. > :16:12.Glasgow City Council thing, this really does work for the economy of

:16:12. > :16:17.the city. It boosts the profile of Glasgow and is generating income.

:16:17. > :16:22.The artists are very much part of the city. Also the citizens of the

:16:22. > :16:25.city have been brought up in the city that is culturally lead.

:16:25. > :16:30.Whether they recognise that or not, I think if they go anywhere else

:16:30. > :16:40.they would realise it may be is missing and somehow you feel very

:16:40. > :16:40.

:16:40. > :16:43.much part of film, poetry, writing music that happens in the city.

:16:43. > :16:50.there a good opportunity that someone from Glasgow will win the

:16:50. > :16:57.Turner Prize this year? There is a 50% chance. We have two out of four

:16:57. > :17:01.listed artists. I think Karla, whose work is in the gallery, has

:17:01. > :17:06.emerged as the favourite. I think she is doing some extraordinary

:17:07. > :17:16.things with the idea of structure - - sculpture, almost exploding the

:17:16. > :17:21.idea of the sculpture. And think, Carla is the favourite at the

:17:22. > :17:26.moment, but everyone would be delighted if Maarten one. If one of

:17:26. > :17:31.the two Scottish art this is successful, it will only go to

:17:31. > :17:34.reinforce Glasgow's dominance in the contemporary art market.

:17:34. > :17:39.However there is concern due to the state of the economy if we do not

:17:39. > :17:44.invest in two new talent, Glasgow could damage its hard-won

:17:44. > :17:50.reputation for excellence. Five am joined by the head of fine

:17:50. > :17:54.art at Glasgow School of Art. Professor Roger Wilson, of what is

:17:54. > :18:00.interesting about this is that obviously there are some hallowed

:18:00. > :18:04.institutions of the arts in Glasgow, your own not least amongst them.

:18:04. > :18:11.There is a sense that the art scene in Glasgow has created itself

:18:11. > :18:15.almost spontaneously. I wish that it were spontaneous. They do not

:18:15. > :18:19.think it is spontaneous. If you think of the Glasgow School of Art

:18:19. > :18:24.has been an exceptionally good art school for over 100 years, this is

:18:24. > :18:31.not a recent development. The students are from a long line of

:18:31. > :18:35.graduates who have been attracted to the art school. Good students

:18:35. > :18:41.make good art schools. It is that long-term quality that we are

:18:41. > :18:46.talking about here. Not a recent clash in the pan or novelty. That

:18:46. > :18:52.is the difference between Glasgow and many other institutions. It has

:18:52. > :18:57.been a bit up and down, hasn't it? Glasgow has had its periods were it

:18:57. > :19:02.has been pretty much in the lead or alongside London and the UK. I am

:19:02. > :19:08.curious as to why you think now is a time which seems to be one of

:19:08. > :19:13.where it is flourishing. There is a modern version of civic pride in

:19:13. > :19:18.Glasgow that is part of the art school ethos as well. It is quite

:19:18. > :19:24.contagious. Students, even from outside of Glasgow or the UK, pick

:19:24. > :19:27.it up quite quickly. There is a welcoming, warming appreciative

:19:27. > :19:34.atmosphere about the place which you really do not get in other

:19:34. > :19:38.places. That has gently eroded any of the difficulties that higher

:19:38. > :19:43.education has had and the underfunding of higher education is

:19:43. > :19:49.now legendary. It is actually easing off, that problem of Roy

:19:49. > :19:54.period of time. One of the points the film was making is that hit a

:19:54. > :19:57.third is not just your particular field of Fine Arts, it is the fact

:19:57. > :20:03.that is embedded in a city where there is literature and poetry

:20:03. > :20:09.going on. Does that help, so that Glasgow becomes a brand which young

:20:09. > :20:17.artists become attracted to? Absolutely. In many respects the

:20:17. > :20:23.museum and gallery strata of any institution is any part and of it.

:20:23. > :20:28.Students find their own levels which are largely underground. Yes,

:20:28. > :20:33.that is true. The City's culture behind the official culture is

:20:33. > :20:37.terribly attractive. I am curious as well, do you think you could be

:20:38. > :20:43.badly affected by the change in the fee system that is coming in next

:20:43. > :20:48.year? The Glasgow Art Scene -- Glasgow art scene is not just

:20:48. > :20:56.Scottish, it is very international. If you start charging 9,000. Fees

:20:56. > :21:02.to students from the rest of the UK, but could put them off. It could. I

:21:02. > :21:06.am not going to be an apologist for student fees here. But actually, if

:21:06. > :21:11.you are obliged to spend that money, you have to ask the question where

:21:11. > :21:20.would you rather spend it. We will have to leave it there. A quick

:21:20. > :21:30.look at tomorrow's front pages. The Herald, Leeds on Robert Black's

:21:30. > :21:38.

:21:38. > :21:43.The Scotsman, top bosses pay rises 50% in one year.

:21:43. > :21:53.That is all for this week, we will be back again on Monday. Until then,

:21:53. > :21:57.

:21:57. > :22:01.It is the season of mists and mellow fruitfulness. There could be

:22:01. > :22:08.missed in the morning. Be aware of that if you're on the move at first

:22:08. > :22:14.thing. Most of us will have a lovely day with a lot of sunshine.

:22:14. > :22:20.Temperatures nothing spectacular. For East Anglia and the south-east,

:22:20. > :22:25.it will stay cloudy with the odd spot of rain. For such western

:22:26. > :22:32.parts of England, we have lost the rain clouds. It'll be a sober

:22:32. > :22:35.afternoon for much of the south- west. Much of Wales as well. For

:22:35. > :22:44.Northern Ireland, it will be a bright and breezy afternoon, the

:22:44. > :22:50.rain clouds holding off. Most of Scotland will have a fine day, the

:22:50. > :22:57.best of the sunshine further south and east you go. Looking ahead, it

:22:57. > :23:00.will turn rather cloudier with outbreaks of rain. Head southwards,

:23:00. > :23:07.its day's drive. The cloud will come and go and there will be some

:23:07. > :23:13.sunshine. As we go through this weekend we will be reporting some