:00:10. > :00:12.is hard to see anybody gaining such Tonight on Newsnight Scotland, a
:00:12. > :00:17.minimum price for alcohol looks almost certain to become law, but
:00:17. > :00:20.should it? Is there any evidence it will work? And if there is, why are
:00:20. > :00:23.some of the opposition parties still against it?
:00:23. > :00:32.And one in five young Scots are unemployed but the effects of youth
:00:32. > :00:37.unemployment are felt even by those fortunate enough to find work.
:00:37. > :00:41.Good evening. It is almost a year since the Scottish Parliament threw
:00:41. > :00:44.out plans to introduce a minimum price for Al Gore. Now the SNP
:00:44. > :00:49.government is trying again, although the actual price will not
:00:49. > :00:53.be decided to will the new year. -- a minimum price for alcohol.
:00:53. > :00:59.Opposition parties, however, still do not believe it is the right way
:00:59. > :01:04.to go about it and think it could be illegal.
:01:04. > :01:09.It's a sight all too often seen our streets. Scotland's love affair
:01:09. > :01:13.with drink can make for a pretty messy relationship. These are
:01:13. > :01:19.shocking statistics were released by a major Scotland earlier this
:01:19. > :01:23.year. Since the 1980s, the number of alcohol-related deaths in
:01:23. > :01:27.Scotland has trebled, while there are four times the number of
:01:27. > :01:32.hospital admissions. And although this trend has declined in recent
:01:32. > :01:37.years, there are nearly twice as many alcohol-related deaths in
:01:37. > :01:42.Scotland than in England and Wales. The fall-out can leave people in
:01:42. > :01:45.ruins. These two are both recovering from alcohol misuse.
:01:45. > :01:51.They think if it have been more expensive when they win younger, it
:01:51. > :01:56.might have put them off. It was so easy. If you just asked people to
:01:56. > :02:02.go into the local shop and buy you the drink. And later when I was 16,
:02:02. > :02:06.I could buy it myself and take it back to when I -- where I lived.
:02:06. > :02:12.has always been like that. Alcohol has always been there, in the
:02:12. > :02:17.generations of my family. Always. Adults in Scotland will consume a
:02:17. > :02:21.fifth more alcohol than adults in other parts of the UK, and sales in
:02:21. > :02:26.2010 in Scotland were equivalent to 23 units per person per week.
:02:26. > :02:32.Despite the backing of health professionals, support just could
:02:32. > :02:42.not be won from opposition politicians in the Parliament. Now
:02:42. > :02:45.laws can be passed, thanks to the majority of the SNP. The kinds of
:02:45. > :02:50.products that people tend to drink are not affected by a minimum
:02:50. > :02:54.pricing. Minimum pricing is about targeting the very cheap and strong
:02:54. > :02:58.products that are doing so much damage to our communities. The
:02:58. > :03:04.relationship between the price of alcohol and consumption of alcohol
:03:04. > :03:08.is well-known. We are seeing emerging evidence from Canada that
:03:08. > :03:12.price helps reduce consumption. It is not a magic bullet, and we have
:03:12. > :03:16.never said it is, but it is a missing piece of the jigsaw in
:03:16. > :03:20.Scotland. There has been enough alcohol sold in Scotland for every
:03:20. > :03:25.adult to exceed a weekly recommended limits of men, 21 units,
:03:25. > :03:32.each and every week since the year 2000. It is possible to drink that
:03:32. > :03:37.amount for about �4. A minimum price has not been set yet. But if
:03:37. > :03:43.you were to buy this bottle of whisky in the supermarket, it would
:03:43. > :03:47.cost �11.47. But with a minimum price of 45p unit, it would cost
:03:47. > :03:54.�12.64 stop this bottle of gin at the moment costs �8.99. But with a
:03:54. > :03:58.minimum cost at the same rate, it would go up to �11 Eddie paw stop
:03:58. > :04:06.and here's for big shock. This bottle of cider would mean it would
:04:06. > :04:10.go up to �6.75. And here's end of a surprise. This would not be
:04:10. > :04:14.affected at all. But the industry says it does not think this is the
:04:14. > :04:20.solution. We are opposed to a minimum pricing but not to play in
:04:20. > :04:24.our part in tackling the Al Gore problem in Scotland. -- the alcohol
:04:24. > :04:29.problem. Going for minimum pricing would simply penalise the vast
:04:29. > :04:33.majority who drink responsibly already. And despite Douglas
:04:33. > :04:38.Alexander's views that Labour should have backed the policy in
:04:38. > :04:42.the May elections, Labour in Holyrood remains unconvinced.
:04:42. > :04:46.is definitely going to be an appeal against it. We know that is going
:04:46. > :04:50.to come. The English have said the UK ministers have already said they
:04:50. > :04:56.do not think it is legal, so the Scottish government has to publish
:04:56. > :05:01.its legal advice. It up to 65,000 children in Scotland may be living
:05:01. > :05:05.in families where there is alcohol misuse. The SNP government will
:05:05. > :05:11.suggest what the cost per unit will be in the new year in the hope that
:05:11. > :05:14.future generations will not pay the price.
:05:14. > :05:23.Well, we did ask Nicola Sturgeon to be on the programme to discuss the
:05:23. > :05:28.plans but she was unavailable. I am joined by if the SNP's Bob Doris
:05:28. > :05:34.and Labour's health spokesman, Jackie Baillie. Has the government
:05:34. > :05:38.taken legal advice on this, Bob? Clearly, they have taken legal
:05:38. > :05:43.advice. They would not have presented the bill if that advice
:05:43. > :05:49.did not say if it was legal. It is legal. But we also have to look at
:05:49. > :05:54.the fact that the Presiding Officer, Alex Salmond, would not have
:05:54. > :05:58.allowed him to go before Parliament. Nobody can stop Lidgett --
:05:58. > :06:03.challenges to any legislation brought forward. It is time for
:06:03. > :06:10.Labour to get on board and dealing with tackling for drink agriculture
:06:10. > :06:15.in Scotland. But the European code of Justice has said minimum pricing
:06:15. > :06:25.on tobacco is not to allowed on health grounds. Why would they say
:06:25. > :06:26.
:06:26. > :06:32.the same for alcohol? For well, we can see that the studies done have
:06:32. > :06:41.shown there are health benefits from it. For example, in the first
:06:41. > :06:45.year, there could be masses of health benefits and a reduction in
:06:45. > :06:49.admissions... The question I ask who was, the European Court of
:06:49. > :06:52.Justice has ruled that minimum prices for tobacco are not
:06:52. > :06:59.permissible under competition grounds, even if they have health
:06:59. > :07:02.benefits. Why should they not rule exactly the same way that a minimum
:07:02. > :07:05.prices for alcohol are not competitive even if they have
:07:05. > :07:11.health reasons? They will not do because they will be getting legal
:07:11. > :07:17.advice similar to the Scottish government's legal advice. If this
:07:17. > :07:24.is legal and it will happen. I do wonder where the European Court of
:07:24. > :07:27.Justice took its advice from! Do you agree? There are some real
:07:28. > :07:31.concerns about the legality of the measure. We have a UK government
:07:31. > :07:37.minister on the advice of the UK's Civil Service saying it is probably
:07:37. > :07:42.illegal. If we have the previous evidence to the committee saying
:07:42. > :07:46.there are a number of ways this could be challenged. But Bob Doris
:07:46. > :07:50.is raising a complete red herring, frankly. It is not what the
:07:50. > :07:54.Presiding Officer of the Scottish government things. It ultimately is
:07:54. > :07:58.a matter for the European courts. I did not want to get technical about
:07:58. > :08:02.the two tests, but the reality is there is strong advice that the
:08:02. > :08:06.measure could well be illegal, and we have asked the government time
:08:06. > :08:12.and again to shed their legal advice with us. They should publish
:08:12. > :08:16.it. If a lot of people feel that tells us more about the European
:08:16. > :08:22.Court for the Scottish government, a because if this is a good idea,
:08:22. > :08:28.it ought to be legal, and on the face of it, it makes common sense?
:08:28. > :08:33.Nobody is disputing that we need to look at the minimum price of prince.
:08:34. > :08:37.What we need to do is look at which it mechanism is most appropriate.
:08:37. > :08:44.There are other concerns beside that. We know that the supermarkets
:08:44. > :08:49.will get, on the basis of the 45p unit price, a windfall of �140
:08:49. > :08:55.million a year and not one a penny of that will go on enforcement or
:08:55. > :09:00.alcohol Education or treatment... Added time when public services are
:09:00. > :09:04.experiencing such pressure of... The main argument against this is
:09:04. > :09:09.that basically fit makes a lot of money, even if it has the effects
:09:09. > :09:14.you would likely to have. It makes a lot of money for the supermarkets
:09:14. > :09:21.and the retailers rather than, the way an increase in duty would,
:09:21. > :09:30.where you would have money to treat people with alcohol problems?
:09:30. > :09:35.not agree with that a tour, because Jackie Baillie fails to concede
:09:35. > :09:40.that profits from supermarkets and breweries would actually go lower.
:09:40. > :09:45.She is so concerned about supermarket profit. Why is she
:09:45. > :09:50.opposing this health levy in Scottish Parliament which would
:09:50. > :09:56.raise �30 million from these very people she is so concerned about?
:09:56. > :10:02.It does not stack up. It is hypocrisy, quite frankly. That is
:10:02. > :10:06.complete nonsense! We have a situation... Why don't you take a
:10:06. > :10:12.Douglas Alexander seriously? He said in that speech that you not
:10:12. > :10:19.spent the last parliamentary term a posing for opposition's sake and
:10:19. > :10:23.one opposition was minimum prize? have to say to him, he is wrong.
:10:23. > :10:27.Don't get me wrong, we want to share with the government and other
:10:27. > :10:31.opposition parties the real desire to do something to tackle alcohol
:10:31. > :10:37.abuse in Scotland. We do not think minimum unit pricing is the silver
:10:37. > :10:42.bullet. And I have to say to Doris, �30 million a year as a public
:10:42. > :10:46.health levy from supermarkets does not take the �140 million profit.
:10:46. > :10:51.And this is coming at a time... At a time when the Scottish government
:10:51. > :10:57.is in real terms of reducing their budget for alcohol treatment and it
:10:57. > :11:02.suggests Bob Doris is capable of more hypocrisy than I am. What were
:11:02. > :11:07.you going to say? I have to say that she fails to concede on so
:11:07. > :11:10.many fronts where she is clearly wrong, for example, if she wants to
:11:10. > :11:15.talk about profits made by breweries and supermarkets, let's
:11:15. > :11:21.talk about having more of these powers to a Scottish Parliament to
:11:21. > :11:27.get those powers in. For and in real terms, it has increased in
:11:27. > :11:31.spite of the Pat coming from the UK. Let's get on board with dealing
:11:31. > :11:41.with the fewer admissions we could have coming into hospitals next
:11:41. > :11:47.
:11:47. > :11:55.We have constantly have statisticians coming up with claims
:11:55. > :12:02.of very specific figures. Are we supposed to take them seriously?
:12:02. > :12:06.Who came up with these figures? They sound ridiculous. You have to
:12:06. > :12:15.make projections for the health benefits you would want to see, for
:12:15. > :12:23.example, there could be 50 fewer fatalities. The University
:12:23. > :12:32.Sheffield on -- the University of Sheffield has a look that is in
:12:32. > :12:40.detail. -- has looked at this in detail. One of the things the
:12:40. > :12:47.Sheffield study showed, you chose 45 p, if you made it 60 be, you
:12:47. > :12:51.would get more than double. It is about looking at balance. You have
:12:51. > :13:00.to keep reviewing the evidence available, and that is why the
:13:00. > :13:07.Scottish government is re-running the modelling work. What is the
:13:07. > :13:15.alternative? You are not in power in Westminster any more. We think
:13:15. > :13:20.taxation is the way to do it. Prices, north and south of the
:13:20. > :13:26.border, are actually the same. We have a 25% greater problem with
:13:26. > :13:30.alcohol abuse in Scotland than they do south of the border. If the SNP
:13:30. > :13:36.was so keen on working in a consensual fashion, why is the bill
:13:36. > :13:41.so narrowly drawn, that our ability to come up with other measures is
:13:41. > :13:43.severely curtailed? New figures today appear to show
:13:43. > :13:47.positive signs for the UK economy, with GDP growing faster than
:13:47. > :13:50.expected in the third quarter of this year. But that will be little
:13:50. > :13:53.comfort to the one in five young people out of work in Scotland.
:13:53. > :13:56.Youth unemployment is worse here than the rest of the UK, and it's a
:13:56. > :14:06.problem that's having an impact across the social spectrum, even on
:14:06. > :14:10.
:14:10. > :14:20.those who are able to get a job. Youth unemployment in Scotland is
:14:20. > :14:25.
:14:25. > :14:30.at 20.7%. You find that 25.8% young men are out of work. The SNP says
:14:30. > :14:34.it has concerns about the issue, while the UK government is tackling
:14:34. > :14:44.it as a priority. Scottish Labour says there is a youth employment
:14:44. > :14:48.crisis. At the recent Scottish Graduate
:14:48. > :14:52.Fair, even those with good qualifications, as well as students
:14:52. > :14:59.nearing the end of their courses, are feeling the impact of the
:14:59. > :15:06.squeezed labour market. It is almost impossible to find anything
:15:06. > :15:10.related to. I have ended up having to apply to different things such
:15:10. > :15:15.as clerical jobs. I can't even tell you the number of letters and
:15:15. > :15:20.application forms I have written and filled out. It is really
:15:20. > :15:27.difficult to stay positive and keep going, thinking that one day, I
:15:27. > :15:31.will get somewhere. But, you have to keep on trying. Those advising
:15:31. > :15:40.graduates are urging them to understand and accept the new
:15:40. > :15:46.reality. It has always been the case that graduates will have to
:15:46. > :15:53.expect to have steps towards their ideal, or graduate, Korea, and that
:15:53. > :15:59.is more pronounced. -- career. We want to encourage them not to give
:15:59. > :16:09.up and see them as a trading down, but to see it as where the labour
:16:09. > :16:14.market is and making steps towards it. If life is tough for graduates,
:16:15. > :16:18.it is also a part for people who have no skills whatsoever. Many of
:16:18. > :16:28.the people camped here are complaining against the cuts, but
:16:28. > :16:28.
:16:28. > :16:31.they are anxious about the affect of youth unemployment on their own
:16:31. > :16:41.lives. They say you have got to have this,
:16:41. > :16:48.all these qualifications, but I don't. Because of my conviction, it
:16:48. > :16:58.is difficult for me to get a job. What is it you want? Can you put it
:16:58. > :17:00.
:17:00. > :17:10.into words? There is nothing worth living for if you don't have a job.
:17:10. > :17:13.
:17:13. > :17:19.Get things sorted for everybody. They should start looking at the
:17:19. > :17:23.people beneath them. Research for the International Labour
:17:23. > :17:31.Organisation has been looking at the pressure on young people. David
:17:31. > :17:36.Bell says what he calls greater recession it is that workers are
:17:36. > :17:40.expecting lower skilled jobs. Scottish Labour say the level of
:17:41. > :17:46.youth unemployment demonstrates that the SNP's economic plan is are
:17:46. > :17:51.not working. The SNP, in turn, blames the come -- the UK