:00:08. > :00:11.it raises questions about how the UK Border Agency is held to account.
:00:11. > :00:14.Tonight on Newsnight Scotland: Councillors say no to plans for a
:00:14. > :00:17.new coal-fired power station in Ayrshire. The company behind the
:00:17. > :00:20.proposals at Hunterston says it will fight on, but with the carbon
:00:20. > :00:25.capture technology it's promising still to be tested, can its vow to
:00:25. > :00:29.minimise harmful emissions be taken seriously?
:00:29. > :00:32.And 50 years ago the gap between rich and poor was closing. Now the
:00:32. > :00:38.UK has one of the worst rates of income inequality in the developed
:00:38. > :00:42.world. Are we really all in this together?
:00:42. > :00:44.Good evening. For the 20,000 people who objected to the plans for a new
:00:44. > :00:47.power station at Hunterston, today's decision marked a
:00:47. > :00:50.significant victory. There will now be a public inquiry before the
:00:50. > :00:53.Scottish Government decides if the plant will go ahead. The company
:00:53. > :00:55.behind the development has promised that from day one it will reduce
:00:55. > :01:05.greenhouse gas emissions using carbon capture technology. But that
:01:05. > :01:33.
:01:33. > :01:41.Carbon capture and stories is a way for power stations to burn fossil
:01:41. > :01:51.fuels, collect the carbon dioxide emissions, liquified them and pour
:01:51. > :02:01.
:02:01. > :02:10.them into underground disused Wells. Today, Scotland's carbon capture
:02:10. > :02:19.situation has focused on three sides. We could not proceed at Long
:02:19. > :02:26.Gannet because of the problems there, but that does not mean we
:02:26. > :02:32.are shelving the project. For Alex Salmond, it was disappointing. But
:02:32. > :02:39.Scottish and Southern Energy have plans. Today they announced that in
:02:39. > :02:49.partnership with Shell, they would be seeking funding for developing
:02:49. > :02:53.
:02:53. > :03:01.carbon capture. Scotland has world- leading expertise and some of the
:03:01. > :03:11.best carbon storage sites in Europe. The third player on to the stage is
:03:11. > :03:20.
:03:20. > :03:30.Hunterston in Ayrshire. For the local council there was a problem
:03:30. > :03:35.
:03:35. > :03:39.and the planning application was rejected. We've got a situation
:03:39. > :03:45.where we are not sure about how the carbon capture technology will be
:03:45. > :03:50.used. For protesters it was a welcome result. The government is
:03:50. > :03:53.on track to provide all the energy we need three renewables and this
:03:53. > :03:59.proposal is very damaging for the environment. It seems the exact
:03:59. > :04:03.opposite. Scotland is the only country in Europe proposing to
:04:03. > :04:07.build a coal-fired power station. we do not need any more power
:04:07. > :04:15.because the power being produced at the moment is more than Scott the
:04:15. > :04:18.needs because of a were reduced fuel use. And from
:04:18. > :04:24.environmentalists concerned about the impact on wildlife, the news
:04:24. > :04:30.was equally satisfying. There would have been some short-term economic
:04:30. > :04:40.benefit from it, but there would have been a loss of environmental
:04:40. > :04:50.value on the site. For Ayrshire Power is a setback -- it is a
:04:50. > :04:51.
:04:51. > :04:58.setback, but they are hoping to overcome it. There should be a
:04:58. > :05:08.players for carbon capture with Kohl. Carbon capture is attractive
:05:08. > :05:09.
:05:09. > :05:14.and essential if environmental targets are to be met. In a report
:05:14. > :05:18.published today by the International Energy Agency, they
:05:18. > :05:22.warn that whilst carbon capture is an important part of cutting
:05:23. > :05:29.emissions, it faced a lot of barriers, making its deployment
:05:29. > :05:35.uncertain. People do not realise that we cannot do without energy.
:05:35. > :05:44.Nobody can. The relationship between energy and economic growth
:05:44. > :05:54.is crucial and energy sources to economies is crucial. Ayrshire
:05:54. > :05:56.
:05:56. > :06:00.Power say that they will take their plans further. We say to the
:06:00. > :06:07.applicants this is such an unpopular application, you should
:06:07. > :06:17.just walk away now and cut your losses. So now the SNP
:06:17. > :06:21.
:06:21. > :06:25.administration at Holyrood have a lot of questions to answer.
:06:25. > :06:31.I'm joined now by the man in charge of the plans for the new plant at
:06:31. > :06:35.Hunterston - Mike Claydon from Ayrshire Power. 20,000 people
:06:35. > :06:40.objected to this. The council has thrown it out. Why are you so
:06:40. > :06:47.determined to press on with it? Over the next 15 years, about a
:06:47. > :06:50.quarter of the UK's electricity generating capacity is going to be
:06:50. > :06:54.close as the existing coal and nuclear power stations come towards
:06:54. > :07:02.their end of their lives. At the same time, electricity consumption
:07:02. > :07:08.will increase, despite efforts to be more efficient as we convert to
:07:08. > :07:16.electric transport. That capacity needs to be in place and we are
:07:16. > :07:20.proposing a substantial contribution to filling that gap.
:07:21. > :07:24.One of the problems is you would not be able to capture most of that
:07:24. > :07:34.carbon emissions at the start. There is no way you can do with
:07:34. > :07:38.that because it is not technology clean possible? Today, there are
:07:38. > :07:48.millions of tons up C02 been captured. -- technologically
:07:48. > :07:56.possible. You cannot meet your target when the plant opens. It is
:07:56. > :08:06.true that Summerbee but have not been integrated... A new well from
:08:06. > :08:10.the start be able to stop 25 %, is it? 25 % is the nominal capacity of
:08:10. > :08:14.the carbon capture plant and that is consistent with the minimum size
:08:14. > :08:18.specified by the government. And they at his right from the moment
:08:18. > :08:26.the Prague Opens? That is right. What enables you to make that
:08:26. > :08:32.claim? The size of the plant... the technology is not available yet.
:08:32. > :08:34.The component parts have been proved. Scottish Power wanted �1
:08:34. > :08:40.billion of government money in order to do the integration that
:08:40. > :08:44.you are talking about. If they cannot do it unless they get over
:08:44. > :08:52.�1 billion of government subsidy, where would you get the money from?
:08:52. > :08:55.Be it is an expensive process and unless the technology is supported
:08:55. > :08:59.through the electricity market reforms that are currently being
:08:59. > :09:06.discussed, then no investor, and that includes Ayrshire Power, will
:09:06. > :09:10.be able to obtain funding for such a development. Sorry, I am not
:09:10. > :09:16.clear. You say you want public funding for the carbon capture
:09:16. > :09:19.storage plant? Yes, that is right. But hang on a minute, this is a
:09:19. > :09:23.major problem for you. You have gone through this whole process
:09:23. > :09:27.saying that you would guarantee as part of your planning application
:09:27. > :09:34.that you would have at least 25 % carbon capture and storage from the
:09:34. > :09:40.day the plant opened and now you have just told me that you in no
:09:40. > :09:48.position -- are in no position to make that claim. Yes up... You put
:09:48. > :09:52.a planning application in saying that you would provide carbon
:09:52. > :09:58.capture and storage and now you are saying you cannot do unless you get
:09:58. > :10:03.a subsidy from the government. have not said that. The carbon
:10:03. > :10:09.capture and storage plant will need to be publicly supported. The power
:10:09. > :10:14.station will have to be separately funded, but the two together...
:10:14. > :10:18.the carbon capture and storage and use to be funded by the government?
:10:18. > :10:22.It needs to be funded through the carbon capture and storage
:10:22. > :10:31.competitions. Have you got funding from the government? Not yet.
:10:31. > :10:37.you got funding from the European Union? Not yet. So your claim, you
:10:37. > :10:41.do not know whether you will get the funding, you said you would
:10:41. > :10:45.guarantee 25 % carbon capture and storage is wrong. We will not
:10:45. > :10:50.developed the plant if we do not win funding for the demonstration
:10:50. > :10:54.project. Furthermore, unless the electricity market reforms support
:10:54. > :11:00.not just the development of carbon capture and storage technology at
:11:00. > :11:07.the demonstration scale, they also support it for full-scale carbon
:11:07. > :11:11.capture and storage. So you have applied for European Union funding,
:11:11. > :11:15.which you have now told us, by the way you are not going to build the
:11:15. > :11:21.plant and less you get it? That is true. You would accept that given
:11:21. > :11:27.the particular type of funding, they are not going to his side on
:11:27. > :11:36.that, on who gets the grants, until late next year. -- going to decide
:11:36. > :11:46.on that. So no-one should allow you planning permission and will you
:11:46. > :11:47.
:11:47. > :11:52.have actually got the money. That Planning permission is essential
:11:52. > :11:56.before we can move through to the next stage. Planning permission is
:11:56. > :12:01.based on the idea that you can have 25% carbon Storage, but you have
:12:01. > :12:04.explained to me why you're not in a position to say that, unless you
:12:04. > :12:13.get European Union grants that are not due to be decided until next
:12:13. > :12:22.year. That is correct. How much do you need? The cost of their carbon
:12:22. > :12:32.capture storage project is around �1 billion. Right across the
:12:32. > :12:34.
:12:34. > :12:40.European Union, do Ketty was estimated to be at 4.5 billion
:12:40. > :12:47.euros. The price of carbon has come down, it is more like 3 billion
:12:47. > :12:55.euros now. There are 13 projects, of which eight are likely to be
:12:55. > :13:05.approved. Let us divide that 4 billion euros, and say that you
:13:05. > :13:08.
:13:09. > :13:12.might get 5 billion -- 500 million euros. That is optimistic. That is
:13:12. > :13:19.the stated objective, whether that will be the final number remains to
:13:19. > :13:23.be seen. Whatever they contribute one the to be topped up in a parked
:13:23. > :13:27.by the funding that both the Scottish and the UK Government had
:13:27. > :13:33.indicated will be available to fund up to four at carbon capture
:13:33. > :13:41.storage projects in the UK. Right. A but you have not applied for that
:13:41. > :13:49.funding. For UK funded competitions have not yet been announced. We
:13:49. > :13:54.applied for the competition and with the truth. Hang on a second.
:13:54. > :13:58.We're now at this stage we put in a planning application for power-
:13:59. > :14:02.station, promising it will have 25% carbon capture technology on the
:14:02. > :14:04.day of opening. If we have established that you're in no
:14:04. > :14:08.position to make that claim because you're relying on public money to
:14:08. > :14:12.build it. The public money might come from the European Union, but
:14:12. > :14:15.that is a pot that will be spread across Europe. He did not know when
:14:15. > :14:19.you will get the money and you do not know him which you will get, so
:14:19. > :14:23.it would have to be topped up a UK government grants which have not
:14:23. > :14:27.applied for and you do not know whether he would get an even if you
:14:27. > :14:32.did apply for them. If we have not apply for them because we have not
:14:32. > :14:36.been made aware of the process of application. What they have said is
:14:36. > :14:43.by the end of the year, they will be announcing the details of those
:14:43. > :14:47.competitions and will -- we'll be applying along with others. If you
:14:47. > :14:52.do not get the money, we cancel the project? If we do not get the
:14:52. > :14:57.funding, then the fight at -- the project will not proceed. If you
:14:57. > :15:01.have explained this in detail. In the planning application two yes,
:15:01. > :15:05.of course. And you have explain that a North Ayrshire Council?
:15:06. > :15:10.we have. The because the public do not seem to understand the claimed
:15:10. > :15:20.that you can guarantee carbon capture storage in this point from
:15:20. > :15:30.
:15:30. > :15:35.A specious claim. It is not spacious. -- specious.
:15:35. > :15:38.You know, of course, that negotiations broke down between
:15:38. > :15:46.ScottishPower and the UK Government because Scottish Power decided they
:15:46. > :15:51.needed more than �1 billion. They had a very detailed proposal, why
:15:51. > :15:57.are you so sure that you can do it for �1 billion? We very much regret,
:15:57. > :16:04.as everybody does, that the ScottishPower project is not going
:16:04. > :16:09.ahead. Their project was to fit technology to an existing coal-
:16:09. > :16:16.fired power station. Hours is to integrate that technology in to an
:16:16. > :16:22.all-new, very high-efficiency power station. We will have to leave it
:16:22. > :16:25.there. "We're all in this together" has
:16:25. > :16:29.been the UK government's mantra since coming to power. In the 1950s
:16:29. > :16:32.it may have rung more true. Back then, the gap between the highest
:16:32. > :16:35.and lowest earners was closing. But from the late 70s, through the
:16:35. > :16:39.miners strike of the 80s, to the present day, the gap has been
:16:39. > :16:45.growing, so much so that the UK now has one of the worst rates of
:16:45. > :16:49.income inequality in the developed world. Here's Ian Hamilton.
:16:49. > :16:59.After the Second World War, the average UK 1,000 experienced an
:16:59. > :17:03.increase in the standard of living like never before. -- citizen. In
:17:03. > :17:10.1957, Harold Macmillan informed the nation that the dead in never had
:17:10. > :17:15.it so good. -- are that it had never had it so good. Britain will
:17:15. > :17:21.stage great. However, as the 20th century it rolled on and drew to a
:17:21. > :17:25.close, the gap between the rich and the poor significantly increased.
:17:25. > :17:29.In the last 20 years, the increase in inequality in the UK has a white
:17:29. > :17:34.tent greater than in any period since the 1930s. One of the
:17:34. > :17:43.standard ways of measuring is comparing their incomes held by the
:17:43. > :17:49.richest 10%, compared to the incomes of the poorest 10%. The
:17:49. > :17:54.story of the post-war period is a decreasing inequality until about
:17:54. > :18:00.1977. That was the year in the UK where inequalities were at their
:18:00. > :18:05.narrowest point. For 30 years after the war, much of British industry
:18:05. > :18:09.was under government control, which kept excessive wage rises down.
:18:09. > :18:14.of the issues in the period after 1945 is that there is extensive
:18:14. > :18:18.taxation, control and government intervention, so you do not have
:18:18. > :18:26.the same it's super rich as you do have today. The super-rich were not
:18:26. > :18:32.growing as fast as they are today. The very wealthy were quite in fear
:18:32. > :18:35.for their position, believing that taxation, intervention, would
:18:35. > :18:45.eventually weight away all that inherited well that they had
:18:45. > :18:51.
:18:51. > :18:59.However, the 80s began anew era, when they rich and the super-rich
:18:59. > :19:02.sort their earnings increase like never before. Over the same
:19:02. > :19:12.timescale, the poorest in the country were seeing their standard
:19:12. > :19:15.
:19:15. > :19:21.of living drop. The incomes of the top 1% in Britain doubled between
:19:21. > :19:27.1982 to 2008. But by 2008, the top 1% owned 14% of national income in
:19:27. > :19:31.the UK. The most important factors leading to the increase in
:19:31. > :19:37.inequality at the top end where a very significant increase in the
:19:37. > :19:47.income of the highest earners and a decrease in they did top rate of
:19:47. > :19:47.
:19:47. > :19:57.income tax and other taxes. Life is becoming taxing in other ways for
:19:57. > :20:03.those at the bottom in the 1980s. Industrial unrest, unemployment, a
:20:03. > :20:11.squeeze on benefits and low wages good families under pressure. --
:20:11. > :20:17.put families. Poverty is associated with long-term unemployment and is
:20:17. > :20:23.confined to a specific group of people and in places that are quite
:20:23. > :20:28.specific. That really carries on right up to the present, what you
:20:28. > :20:33.might call sink estates or unemployment blackspot. According
:20:33. > :20:38.to an economist, the disparity in the UK is among the we distend the
:20:38. > :20:42.UK. -- the world. Britain is one of the most unequal countries in
:20:42. > :20:51.Europe. There are only four European countries with a higher
:20:51. > :20:56.level of income inequality, in fact, Britain is amongst the most unequal
:20:56. > :21:01.countries in the developed world. One the few countries that other
:21:01. > :21:07.member of the OCD, have higher levels of inequality, countryside
:21:07. > :21:12.Brazil, Mexico and the United States. When the banking crisis hit
:21:12. > :21:17.in mid- 2007, some argue it was the poorest that were the hardest hit.
:21:17. > :21:25.It was suggested that to help them would involve an injection of cash
:21:25. > :21:35.from the highest earners. Is this likely?
:21:35. > :21:52.
:21:52. > :21:55.Another mild night out there. Later on we could see some heavy rain in
:21:55. > :22:00.the south-east of England, making for some as a bull driving
:22:00. > :22:05.conditions in parts of Somerset, Devon and Dorset. The rain tracks
:22:05. > :22:09.its way northwards through the day. The afternoon could be quite damp.
:22:09. > :22:15.East of the Pennines are generally dry Butterworth -- we knew he said
:22:15. > :22:20.it will be agree start but size bills coming through. The south-
:22:20. > :22:30.west of England starts wait, possibly very wet in some places.
:22:30. > :22:30.
:22:30. > :22:34.By the afternoon, it will be turning drier and brighter. It is
:22:34. > :22:40.looking like a fine day in Northern Ireland. There are some clay but
:22:40. > :22:44.there will be some sunshine as well. Across Scotland, it will start dry
:22:44. > :22:48.back we'll see outbreaks of rain working their way in. As for Friday,
:22:48. > :22:52.we'll see another band of rain moving in across Northern Ireland,
:22:52. > :22:55.slowly walking into parts of south- west Scotland. Edinburgh and
:22:56. > :23:02.Inverness may well see some sunshine. A lot of sun across the