:00:06. > :00:09.were in 2006 and that is why we are calling it the last decade. -- lost
:00:09. > :00:13.decade. Tonight on Newsnight Scotland:
:00:13. > :00:16.More on the strikes over pensions. As hundreds of thousands walked out,
:00:16. > :00:18.the Scottish government said it sympathises with them, but will
:00:18. > :00:21.implement the pension changes anyway. Does its claim it doesn't
:00:21. > :00:24.have a choice stand up? And there's another political row
:00:24. > :00:28.as Labour and Green MSPs join the picket lines instead of taking part
:00:28. > :00:33.in a Parliamentary debate on the pension changes. Were they right,
:00:33. > :00:37.or is this a new low in gesture politics?
:00:37. > :00:40.Good evening. Well, for most parents, thousands of patients
:00:40. > :00:43.booked in for an operation and people who rely on public services
:00:43. > :00:46.on a daily basis, and that's pretty much all of us, the message
:00:46. > :00:48.certainly got across. The last time we saw anything approaching this
:00:48. > :00:53.scale of widespread industrial action, most of our current crop of
:00:53. > :00:57.fresh-faced politicians were still in nappies. There is the inevitable
:00:57. > :00:59.war of words about how many people went on strike today. The Prime
:00:59. > :01:04.Minister, adamant that pension reforms are both necessary and fair,
:01:04. > :01:06.called it a damp squib. That's inflammatory, say the opposition.
:01:06. > :01:09.Here, the Scottish Government accused the coalition of a cash
:01:09. > :01:13.grab on pensions, but they did so having crossed picket lines at
:01:13. > :01:23.Holyrood. We begin tonight by hearing from some of those the
:01:23. > :01:37.
:01:37. > :01:40.length and breadth of the country Because of the bankers we are
:01:40. > :01:50.having to pay more. The changes they are proposing will not make
:01:50. > :02:06.
:02:06. > :02:16.I don't see why I should work all my days, or pay more money, more
:02:16. > :02:23.
:02:23. > :02:27.taxes, more into my pension and get About 3 million people are taking
:02:27. > :02:33.strike action in the United Kingdom today. I have never done this in my
:02:33. > :02:43.life before and that is because we feel so strongly about our pensions
:02:43. > :02:48.
:02:48. > :02:53.Union members are furious at the smash and grab robbery that the
:02:53. > :02:58.coalition government headed in terms of the negotiations headed by
:02:58. > :03:08.Danny Alexander. It felt appropriate to show the
:03:08. > :03:17.
:03:17. > :03:23.demonstration our anger towards our I have received many comments from
:03:23. > :03:28.members of the public supporting our action. I have been approached
:03:28. > :03:38.by people in the private sector asking for away unions to contact
:03:38. > :03:43.
:03:43. > :03:53.them so that they can protest as We deserve a pension. At the end of
:03:53. > :03:56.
:03:56. > :04:06.the day, we work for it, we deserve it and we need it. We are the PDS.
:04:06. > :04:15.
:04:15. > :04:22.We will not pay for the bankers's They want us to work longer for
:04:22. > :04:30.less. The centrepiece of the day was a march to Holyrood but all the
:04:30. > :04:33.major trade unions. They were met by Labour and Green MSPs, but the
:04:33. > :04:36.SNP, the Liberal Democrats and the Tories went about their business as
:04:36. > :04:43.usual with a debate in the chamber about yes, you've guessed it,
:04:43. > :04:49.pension reform. David Allison spent the day there.
:04:49. > :04:54.The union's estimate was 10,000. The police said 7,000 marching down
:04:54. > :04:58.the Royal Mile to Holyrood. More than 300,000 people are believed to
:04:58. > :05:02.have gone on strike across Scotland over the UK government's pension
:05:02. > :05:07.plans. The numbers are impressive and there is no doubting that
:05:07. > :05:12.passion of the people turning out on the protest, but can they really
:05:12. > :05:21.expect any U-turn from the government, given the current
:05:21. > :05:27.financial climate. They will not listen. So why do it? We want them
:05:27. > :05:37.to listen. The protest is about giving the negotiators in London
:05:37. > :05:38.
:05:38. > :05:48.abode up confidence. Is there any scope for the note -- for
:05:48. > :05:52.renegotiation, given the financial climate? Listen, I have been paying
:05:52. > :06:01.attention since I was 19. It is my pension, not theirs. As an NHS
:06:01. > :06:09.employee, we had paid more into the Treasury than we will take out.
:06:09. > :06:18.Next year I am having a pay freeze which does nothing for my pension
:06:18. > :06:26.pot. Members of the Green Party did not cross the picket line, unlike
:06:26. > :06:30.Alex Salmond. He stressed the need to stop compulsory redundancies
:06:30. > :06:39.before entering Parliament to work as normal. After passing in front
:06:39. > :06:42.of the picket line, protesters gathered outside. Just because
:06:42. > :06:48.things are bad in the private sector, it does not mean it should
:06:48. > :06:53.be bad for everyone. Stop the lies and misinformation and get back to
:06:53. > :06:56.serious negotiation! demonstration is against the UK
:06:56. > :07:00.government, of course, but the protest is happening in Scotland
:07:00. > :07:07.here at the Scottish parliament. So can the Scottish government redeem
:07:07. > :07:12.bring its hands and say, it is nothing to do with us? They have
:07:12. > :07:16.made it easier for us because they have been less redundancies in the
:07:16. > :07:20.Scottish sector than in the English. There has been some protection, but
:07:20. > :07:28.I would like to see them do more and I would like to see some
:07:28. > :07:33.solidarity today. They should have closed parliament and come out here
:07:33. > :07:42.and join us. Up on the Labour Party to say they support us rather than
:07:42. > :07:49.just not doing anything about it. It is Westminster's fault. Here, if
:07:49. > :07:54.they do not do as Westminster says, they will put a cap on funding.
:07:54. > :07:58.That is the excuse of the Scottish government. This is a natural place
:07:58. > :08:03.for asked to show our feelings, emotions about what the UK
:08:03. > :08:07.government are trying to do to our pensions. And they are not doing
:08:07. > :08:12.anything about the bankers still getting the big bonuses. They are
:08:12. > :08:16.taking money from us to pay for the deficit. So, at their end of the
:08:16. > :08:22.day, what was achieved? The Prime Minister claimed it was a damp
:08:22. > :08:27.squib, but the unions insist up to 2 million people took part, making
:08:27. > :08:31.it the largest day of action in decades. It is likely that it will
:08:31. > :08:33.not be the last. I'm joined by three MSPs, all in
:08:33. > :08:36.the capital. For Labour, their outgoing Scottish Leader Iain Gray,
:08:36. > :08:46.for the SNP Kenny Gibson and for the Scottish Conservatives, Gavin
:08:46. > :08:50.
:08:50. > :08:55.I didn't see any of them on the picket line. I don't see what was
:08:55. > :09:00.achieved by not coming into Parliament. Iain Gray walked into
:09:00. > :09:06.Parliament through the picket lines, and indeed, last March when they
:09:06. > :09:15.went on strike. I don't understand the Labour Party mentality. Tonight,
:09:15. > :09:21.I went to a seminar with 60 organisations that were there to
:09:21. > :09:28.discuss health inequality, and there was not a single Labour MSP
:09:28. > :09:37.there. I don't agree. Today's action was of a different order. In
:09:37. > :09:42.Scotland, there will probably about 3 million across the UK. The public
:09:42. > :09:46.sector workers are already making a significant contribution. We are in
:09:46. > :09:51.the middle of a pay freeze, which is really a pay cut, and we are
:09:51. > :09:58.asking them to pay more for their pensions and get less. We support
:09:58. > :10:06.their action. It seems right we should be with them. I am trying to
:10:06. > :10:12.square your position. Ed Miliband thought that the strikes were wrong.
:10:12. > :10:15.Your position seems to be that the strikes were right? It is devolved
:10:15. > :10:21.politics. Scottish Labour supported the strikes will stop we thought
:10:22. > :10:29.the best way to such -- support that strike was to be with the
:10:29. > :10:36.workers. -- the strikes. Ice and then the morning with thousands of
:10:36. > :10:46.my constituents. -- I spent the morning. I thought that was the
:10:46. > :10:46.
:10:46. > :10:52.right thing to do. You are against the strikes? We don't think the
:10:52. > :10:59.strikes are appropriate. It should be directed against Westminster.
:10:59. > :11:06.Gavin, what do you make about politicians joining picket lines?
:11:06. > :11:11.Otter Medley, it is a matter for individual MSPs to decide. I am
:11:11. > :11:16.against MSPs taking the day off to do that. My view is that we should
:11:16. > :11:25.all have been in Parliament. The best thing you can do is to be in
:11:25. > :11:29.there, putting forward your views feels constituents. MSP's -- MSPs
:11:29. > :11:39.should have been there. What do you make of the Scottish government's
:11:39. > :11:39.
:11:39. > :11:44.position? These pension changes are being implemented by the Scottish
:11:44. > :11:49.government. It is a confused position, isn't it? The SNP say
:11:49. > :11:56.they are opposed to these changes, but they are implementing them.
:11:57. > :12:04.Their position on the strike is very Clare. Someone said he does
:12:04. > :12:07.not support the strike. -- very clear. They seem to be in a very
:12:07. > :12:14.odd position of not supporting the strike, they are going into
:12:14. > :12:18.Parliament and trying to make it sound as if they do. Kennea, you
:12:18. > :12:25.say you support the strikers, but it is your government that is
:12:25. > :12:30.implementing this in Scotland. -- Kenny. Some of the demonstrators
:12:30. > :12:40.note the position. The UK government said it will claw back a
:12:40. > :12:41.
:12:41. > :12:51.�0.4 million a month for every month. -- �8.4 million. We think
:12:51. > :12:52.
:12:52. > :12:57.that would be irresponsible. At a time of financial cuts, we can't
:12:57. > :13:07.see how we can go ahead with allowing that clawback to happen.
:13:07. > :13:08.
:13:08. > :13:12.We are extremely... We don't have any choice. That is precisely the
:13:12. > :13:21.point the British government makes, they say they don't have a choice.
:13:21. > :13:26.That is nonsense. It is a cash grab. There is a surplus in the public
:13:26. > :13:33.sector pension fund. This money is going to the Treasury, and it is
:13:33. > :13:43.completely wrong to impose these changes. Where can you find this
:13:43. > :13:51.money from the Scottish budget? Iain, isn't he ride? If you were
:13:51. > :13:58.running Holyrood, you would be doing the same thing. No one is
:13:58. > :14:03.pretending it isn't easy choice. This is and different from the
:14:03. > :14:09.decision the -- of the coalition government to increase tuition fees.
:14:09. > :14:14.That meant there was a reduction in the consequences of that came to
:14:14. > :14:19.Scotland. They chose to find the money otherwise be in order not to
:14:19. > :14:26.introduce, and employment, the same policy. In this case, they made
:14:26. > :14:30.their choice again, and the choice was to implement pension changes.
:14:30. > :14:39.It is not true to say they didn't have a choice. A difficult one
:14:39. > :14:49.perhaps, but rejoice none the less. Gavin, why do you think they are
:14:49. > :14:50.
:14:50. > :14:56.wrong? -- 8 choice nonetheless. is a very difficult decision. At
:14:56. > :15:01.the very heart of it, we are all living longer. That is a good news
:15:01. > :15:07.story, but if we are living longer, we are retiring for longer, and
:15:07. > :15:15.pensions cost more money. You either have to work for longer, but
:15:15. > :15:24.more in, or accept you get less out. I am curious to ask you a question
:15:24. > :15:32.that Francis Maude seemed reluctant answer, are you in favour of...
:15:32. > :15:42.Given the rhetoric of a deep Tories, you are freezing tax credits, a UN
:15:42. > :15:51.
:15:51. > :15:58.favour of putting benefits up by 5%? -- the Tories. This wasn't
:15:58. > :16:02.about an increase in pensions. Not just about that any way. I was
:16:02. > :16:07.trying to talk about the anger people feel, particularly when they
:16:07. > :16:11.see people not in work, being rewarded with an increase and the
:16:11. > :16:21.benefits, yet people in work are being told they cannot have their
:16:21. > :16:29.pensions. But this issue is not about a one or two-year deal. It is
:16:29. > :16:33.try to put sustainable pensions on a long-term footing. It is not just
:16:33. > :16:38.about short-term issues. We are trying to make its sustainable in
:16:38. > :16:45.the long-term. They had been measures put in place to ensure
:16:45. > :16:52.that people get a better pension. But someone have to put in more.
:16:52. > :17:01.you welcomed the rise in benefits? The announcements made by the
:17:01. > :17:06.Chancellor tried to reflect fairness. Kennea, you reply to the
:17:06. > :17:10.point that politics is about choices. -- Kenny. You made the
:17:10. > :17:18.choice not to implement tuition fees. You could have made the same
:17:18. > :17:24.choice about public sector pensions, but you didn't want to. We are
:17:24. > :17:28.facing a cut in a budget as it is. As far as Gavin is concerned, he
:17:28. > :17:38.has been disingenuous. He talks about more sustainable pensions,
:17:38. > :17:41.