13/12/2011

Download Subtitles

Transcript

:00:14. > :00:18.Tonight in Newsnight Scotland, as the fall-out from David Cameron's

:00:18. > :00:23.veto continues, we will ask the Scottish Secretary if the decision

:00:23. > :00:28.is an early Christmas present for Alex Salmond. And it has raised the

:00:28. > :00:34.hackles in the capital, now the United Nations are called in to

:00:34. > :00:40.examine the Edinburgh trams product. -- project.

:00:40. > :00:44.Before I ever -- fall-out from David Cameron's decision rumbles on.

:00:44. > :00:54.But what about the relationship between Scotland and the rest of

:00:54. > :00:55.

:00:55. > :01:01.Complicated things, relationships. David Cameron cut a lonely figure

:01:01. > :01:06.in Europe. There were no cases they him. And back home, the welcome was

:01:06. > :01:11.not much warmer. Officially, they may have kissed and made up, but

:01:11. > :01:14.Nick Clegg's face said it all as he headed for Number 10 today. And it

:01:14. > :01:20.may come as no surprise to find there were no plans on the back

:01:20. > :01:23.from Alex Salmond either. It is totally irresponsible. He has

:01:23. > :01:29.isolated himself from the rest of Europe just from we need help, and

:01:29. > :01:33.we need to help Europe. Because it is 45% of our exports, we are

:01:33. > :01:37.affected by it regardless of whether we are in it or not.

:01:37. > :01:42.At least David Cameron has pleased some people. Tory Euro-sceptics are

:01:42. > :01:48.delighted. His motivation is entirely about

:01:48. > :01:51.internal politics. He is worried about Boris Johnson taking his job,

:01:51. > :01:57.so he is sacrificing the lights and jobs of thousands of people for

:01:57. > :02:01.this. -- livelihoods. The coalition may be patching up

:02:01. > :02:06.his differences, but what about the relationship between Holyrood and

:02:06. > :02:12.Westminster? This is not going to cause a break-

:02:12. > :02:17.up of the UK. What it does do is it emphasises yet again a gulf between

:02:17. > :02:24.a Scottish self-perception of and the way the UK sees the mistake --

:02:24. > :02:28.sees the state as a whole. It gives another example where you could say

:02:29. > :02:34.the UK has served Scotland's interest badly.

:02:34. > :02:38.Alex Salmond shows -- says David Cameron's decision shows a lack of

:02:38. > :02:42.respect. There are protocols, and he is

:02:42. > :02:46.meant to consult the leaders of Scotland, Wales and Northern

:02:46. > :02:52.Ireland about events in Europe. He did not do this. He did not even

:02:52. > :02:56.consult his own deputy! He tour of the protocols in the UK. As yet he

:02:56. > :02:59.demands them from the rest of Europe. The case is now

:02:59. > :03:03.overwhelming for Scotland to find his own way to the heart of Europe.

:03:03. > :03:08.Winner cannot be part of some little Englander mentality.

:03:08. > :03:11.The union between the UK has been a long and sometimes fraught. But

:03:11. > :03:17.will this week be the one that causes it to James?

:03:17. > :03:23.I think 2000 11 has now seen these two very important moments, the SNP

:03:23. > :03:29.victory in the Scottish parliament, a triumph that the architect of the

:03:29. > :03:33.parliament had deemed impossible when it was set up, and Britain's

:03:33. > :03:38.All England's detachment from Europe, and I think if you put

:03:38. > :03:46.those two things together, you can see historians looking back and

:03:46. > :03:50.seeing this as the year that began the break-up of a two unions.

:03:50. > :03:53.So as Alex Salmond unveiled his Christmas card today, he may have

:03:53. > :04:00.been wondering if David Cameron had already given him an early

:04:00. > :04:06.Christmas present. I enjoyed by the Scottish secretary

:04:06. > :04:12.Michael Moore. Does Alex Salmond have a case that he should have

:04:12. > :04:16.been consulted before David Cameron exercise his veto?

:04:16. > :04:22.The Scottish government has regular contacts with lots of different

:04:22. > :04:24.departments of the UK government. On all matters in Europe, as there

:04:24. > :04:30.is also institutional machinery where governments can come and talk

:04:30. > :04:34.to one another. On this one, I believe that it was well trailed in

:04:34. > :04:38.advance where this was likely to end up, where we were going to

:04:38. > :04:41.discuss the key issues of financial services and the future of the

:04:41. > :04:48.single market, so it would have been slightly uncharacteristic of

:04:48. > :04:53.the First Minister did not set out in advance any concerns he had. It

:04:53. > :04:56.has been interesting that hit it took him two or three days to set

:04:56. > :05:00.out his particular concerns, and he did not actually say whether the

:05:00. > :05:03.safeguards that the Prime Minister was seeking, which we in the

:05:03. > :05:08.Liberal Democrats believes were perfectly reasonable, were the

:05:08. > :05:13.right ones, not least because there are over 100,000 jobs in financial

:05:13. > :05:16.services in Scotland, which we are determined to protect. We have said

:05:16. > :05:20.this was the wrong outcome, and we are determined at have to make a

:05:20. > :05:26.real effort to make sure we are not isolated. That is not good for

:05:26. > :05:31.Britain, not good for Scotland. We will make sure that we work harder

:05:31. > :05:36.a coalition partners and we are at every council meeting fighting

:05:36. > :05:39.Scotland and the UK's case. You are saying Alex Salmond had

:05:39. > :05:41.every opportunity to make his views known it because it was known that

:05:41. > :05:47.David Cameron was going to raise these issues about financial

:05:47. > :05:50.services, and it was likely that we he would end up exercising a veto?

:05:50. > :05:56.Far from that being the case, Nick Clegg did not know he would

:05:56. > :06:01.exercise a veto! I need to pick that but apart. The

:06:01. > :06:05.safeguards that the Prime Minister had agreed with Nick Clegg, which

:06:05. > :06:09.were to look at the impact of closer fiscal union are and what it

:06:09. > :06:15.would have on the single market, which is hugely important as the

:06:15. > :06:25.first minister said in his club there, 45% of UK exports go to the

:06:25. > :06:25.

:06:25. > :06:27.eurozone. I cannot make any sense at all of what you have just said.

:06:27. > :06:34.I say that Alex Salmond was consulted, should have been

:06:34. > :06:40.consulted? To be frank, the issue is where the

:06:40. > :06:45.UK as a whole is in relation to Europe. I still don't know whether

:06:45. > :06:49.you think it Scottish government, as a federalist, did you not think

:06:49. > :06:55.that having a slightly more consultative approach to these

:06:55. > :07:02.matters would be as a matter of principle rather a good thing?

:07:02. > :07:05.On key issues, on fisheries, which will be discussed this week, the

:07:05. > :07:13.Scottish Fisheries Minister has been in very close discussions.

:07:13. > :07:17.are not talking about fish. We're talking about a new treaty in the

:07:17. > :07:22.European Union. The picture that is being presented is that the

:07:22. > :07:27.Scottish government has got no way of making his views known to the UK

:07:27. > :07:32.government. That is simply not the case. On the specifics here, the

:07:32. > :07:34.First Minister has still not made it clear his position on whether or

:07:34. > :07:40.not be safeguards for financial- services were ones that he wanted

:07:40. > :07:43.himself. We have made it clear as Liberal Democrat we are not happy

:07:43. > :07:47.with the outcome, but as we discussed in Cabinet today, what we

:07:47. > :07:51.are making clear to everybody across government is that it is

:07:51. > :07:57.even more important now that we work hard in the different beatings

:07:57. > :08:01.across Europe to protect British and Scottish jobs. I was say it

:08:01. > :08:08.again because it is absolutely vitally important for us that we do

:08:08. > :08:12.not get isolated, because we are stronger together. We are stronger

:08:12. > :08:17.together rather than apart from Europe. That would apply to

:08:18. > :08:20.Scotland as well. The First Minister has not said how he will

:08:20. > :08:24.answer the currency questions or indeed how he will negotiate his

:08:24. > :08:29.way into the European Union, which will now have much tighter

:08:29. > :08:34.requirements on currency and on spending. We have yet to see the

:08:35. > :08:38.detail from him. Do you think the 26 members of the

:08:38. > :08:43.European Union who have agreed to come up with some form of new Pat,

:08:43. > :08:49.stability pact, should be allowed to use the institutions of the

:08:49. > :08:52.European Union to negotiate and implement that?

:08:52. > :08:57.Nick Clegg and the rest of us have said that if we -- it would be

:08:57. > :09:03.wrong to suggest you could not use that. That is what David Cameron

:09:03. > :09:09.has suggested. Let's see how that evolves. My own view is that it

:09:09. > :09:12.will be a pragmatic requirements that those institutions are used.

:09:12. > :09:17.Bear in mind, those institutions, the European institutions, are on

:09:17. > :09:20.behalf of all members, including ourselves. That will keep Britain

:09:20. > :09:24.in those discussions in a small way, it is important that we understand

:09:24. > :09:29.what is going on. But more broadly, in all the other meetings, whether

:09:29. > :09:39.it is fisheries or single market concerns next week. Britain has to

:09:39. > :09:40.

:09:40. > :09:44.be strongly represented. That is You appear to be saying the outcome

:09:44. > :09:48.of the summit was bad for Britain. That you as Liberal Democrats don't

:09:48. > :09:53.agree that David Cameron should have wielded his veto in the way he

:09:53. > :09:57.did and left Britain isolated, but the main problem is that this

:09:57. > :10:03.Government of Scotland and indeed the Welsh Government has echoed

:10:04. > :10:08.Alex Salmond's concern, shouldn't have been consulted even though you

:10:08. > :10:11.are a federalist, and you think there should be a more consul

:10:12. > :10:16.Taytive proprocess going on. You don't agree with what David Cameron

:10:16. > :10:22.did but you don't like Alex Salmond disagreeing with it. That is not

:10:22. > :10:25.what I was saying. Not at all what I suggested in my earlier remarks.

:10:25. > :10:29.What I am saying is the First Minister has not been short of

:10:29. > :10:32.opportunities to make his own views clear in advance of any summit of

:10:32. > :10:36.what believes are important from his perspective of the Scottish

:10:36. > :10:40.Government, as the Scottish Secretary in the UK Government,

:10:40. > :10:44.that is also my responsibility, all of us across Government need to

:10:44. > :10:48.look out for Scotland and the UK's interests, and we are... We are

:10:48. > :10:50.running out of time. We continue to work with the Scottish Government

:10:51. > :10:54.on important matters such as fisheries. What do you think David

:10:54. > :10:58.Cameron should have done in Brussels? Our view was that he, the

:10:58. > :11:05.veto should not have been wielded. We should not have walked away, we

:11:05. > :11:08.should have kept at the table and kept talking. OK. Sorry. I am not

:11:08. > :11:12.sure any cabinet ministers said that apart from yourself. We will

:11:12. > :11:17.have to leave it there. Thank you Michael Moore. Now, the Edinburgh

:11:17. > :11:21.trams project has been a source of controversy but few perhaps could

:11:21. > :11:25.have foreseen the United Nations being called in to mediate. A

:11:25. > :11:30.committee will sit down in Geneva to pick over the council's hand

:11:30. > :11:37.ofrlg the scheme the case has been brought by campaigners who means it

:11:37. > :11:42.has brought higher pollution levels in residential areas. Here is our

:11:42. > :11:45.transport correspondent. The kam campaigners argue the new tram line

:11:45. > :11:51.has pushed traffic away from the capital's streets which were

:11:51. > :11:55.designed to carry the highest volume of lorries and cars. Princes

:11:55. > :11:59.Street and Haymarket among them. They say thousands of extra

:11:59. > :12:03.vehicles are using residential streets instead. Pollution levels

:12:03. > :12:09.in central Edinburgh are closely monitored by the City Council, but

:12:09. > :12:13.some residents fear their health is at risk. They argue their concerns

:12:13. > :12:17.simply haven't been taken seriously enough by the city's authorities.

:12:17. > :12:21.You can see we are monitoring continuously the inner two levels.

:12:21. > :12:26.The parts per million. campaigners have little faith in

:12:26. > :12:32.the council's statistics. They have installled their own equipment to

:12:32. > :12:36.assess the impact diverting traffic away from the tram Ruth and into

:12:36. > :12:40.residential areas. They are not just worried about increased

:12:40. > :12:45.pollution, they are worried about more noise pollution too. We can

:12:45. > :12:51.core late the noise of traffic with the pollution and the traffic type.

:12:51. > :12:55.It is claimed a detailed picture eis merging which shows there is

:12:55. > :13:00.real cause for concern. The centre is a small place and people live

:13:00. > :13:04.and work close together what this policy does is take the commercial

:13:04. > :13:08.traffic from the centre where it is often trying to deliver and puts it

:13:08. > :13:11.through residential areas, that is more noise, more pollution. This

:13:11. > :13:16.retired engineer has convinced the UN committee to examine the

:13:16. > :13:21.council's handling of the project, under the terms of the

:13:21. > :13:24.convenshurpbgs designed to strengthen the public's voice on

:13:24. > :13:29.environmental matters. Our message is we haven't been fairly treated.

:13:29. > :13:32.We haven't been given the opportunity to present case to a

:13:32. > :13:42.third party, and independent third party with the council are acting

:13:42. > :14:01.

:14:01. > :14:04.as judge and jury. In a statement, The tram project is at last making

:14:04. > :14:07.progress. After the contract eventual dispute which brought work

:14:07. > :14:13.to a stand-still was resolved. Trams are being tested on the

:14:13. > :14:16.stretch of track at the network's depot near the airport. But on

:14:16. > :14:21.Thursday, the focus will be on the Palace of justice in Geneva, where

:14:21. > :14:27.the hearing will take place. A reminder if it were needed of the

:14:27. > :14:32.strong feelings still aroused by this controversial project. I am

:14:32. > :14:36.joined by Dr Ashley Lloyd. He is one of those who will present the

:14:36. > :14:42.case at the committee in Geneva on Thursday. Let us say you go there

:14:42. > :14:45.and make a terrific case, what are you hoping to achieve by this?

:14:45. > :14:49.perhaps it is worth pointing out some of the things you said in your

:14:49. > :14:53.film aren't disputed. There has been a displacement of traffic,

:14:53. > :14:56.there has been an increase in pollution levels in residential

:14:56. > :15:01.area, and in fact the current position of the council is to built

:15:01. > :15:06.the entire line, and the analysis of that by the council's own

:15:06. > :15:10.reports has been that some 139 500 households would be affected by

:15:10. > :15:14.worse air and noise pollution, so this is not really disputed, we are

:15:14. > :15:16.not disputing there is displacement. We are not disputing there will be

:15:17. > :15:23.worse air pollution and noise, we are disputing how much that is

:15:23. > :15:27.going to be. But I come back to this point. If you make a good case,

:15:28. > :15:31.what can this UN committee do that would help your case? Well the UN

:15:31. > :15:33.committee recognises that in environmental matterers it is

:15:33. > :15:37.important to engage with the communities directly affected. This

:15:37. > :15:43.is true about everything from building a river, a road, to

:15:43. > :15:48.building a nuclear power station. The particular pillars of the

:15:48. > :15:50.convention are about freedom of access to information, about real

:15:50. > :15:53.participation and decision making and access to justice. In this

:15:53. > :15:57.particular case, what we are struggling with is access to

:15:57. > :16:01.information. I think that has been something that has bedevilled the

:16:01. > :16:03.project from the beginning, it is hard to get access to what the

:16:03. > :16:08.underlying assumptions are about the business case, what the

:16:08. > :16:11.assumptions are about the impact in other communities and exposing that

:16:11. > :16:15.and making that access to believe the general public to understand it

:16:15. > :16:20.in terms of what is going to happen. Can you see the other side of this?

:16:20. > :16:24.A lot of people say this is getting ludicrous, a council diverts

:16:24. > :16:28.traffic down your street you don't want it, it edsr ends up at the

:16:28. > :16:31.United Nations, think of the imply care, every decision a council

:16:31. > :16:35.takes, every decision about building a new road as you have

:16:35. > :16:40.said, dualing the A9, whatever, we could end up spending lots of

:16:40. > :16:45.public money having cases at a UN committee in Geneva. I have to say

:16:45. > :16:51.it is not ant one street. It is about 139, 500 households. That is

:16:51. > :16:54.not small this is not a small issue. The underlying prince pelpl is we

:16:54. > :16:57.have more openness we can be involved in improving the design of

:16:57. > :17:02.this system. One of the problems has been simply we haven't had

:17:02. > :17:08.access to those models. The traffic models so we have had to work hard

:17:08. > :17:11.to build the data ourselves. will have to leave it there. Thank

:17:11. > :17:18.you for joining us. A look at tomorrow's front-pages. Scotsman

:17:18. > :17:25.leads on more economic woes. High street woe as retail sales suffer

:17:25. > :17:35.record slump. Europe and some of the other papers. The Thymes say

:17:35. > :17:40.Cameron faces new Euro revolt o euro volt in weeks. Then on the

:17:40. > :17:46.right James Murdoch was sent e-mail on hacks. Cracks I merge in the EU

:17:46. > :17:48.Treaty agreement, warnings come from several Governments. And again,

:17:48. > :17:51.a News of the World story on the front of the independent. That is

:17:51. > :18:01.all we have time for. I will be back tomorrow, until then, from all

:18:01. > :18:04.

:18:04. > :18:07.Some pretty serious weather in the forecast, particularly come the end

:18:07. > :18:10.of the week. Overnight tonight it is cold, it is showery in some

:18:10. > :18:14.places and that will be the theme as we go through the day. Some of

:18:14. > :18:18.the showers falling as snow. Not just over the high ground in the

:18:18. > :18:22.north. Anywhere could encounter a flake of snow as we go through the

:18:22. > :18:26.day. Some place also see a lot of sunshine mid afternoon but others

:18:26. > :18:31.will see one or two lively showers. Some wintry showers too, maybe down

:18:31. > :18:35.to low levels but southern coastal areas are most prone to seeing

:18:35. > :18:39.heavy thundery showers. Some hail and a gusty bind. Even in the

:18:39. > :18:44.south-west we could see snow up over the Moors. It will feel cold

:18:44. > :18:50.everywhere. Some places will see sunshine, temperatures round 5C,

:18:50. > :18:53.when the showers come along they will fall away. It is not all bad

:18:53. > :18:57.news. For Northern Ireland there will be plenty of sunshine. Some

:18:57. > :19:00.showers affecting some northern and western parts of Scotland, but the

:19:00. > :19:04.further south and east after a showery start things will tend to

:19:04. > :19:07.dry out. On Thursday some sunshine for a time. The rain clouds will be

:19:07. > :19:10.gathering in the south-west there is a lot of uncertainty about what

:19:10. > :19:15.happens after that, because the low pressure system winding itself up

:19:15. > :19:19.down to the south-west is not sure which way to go, and there is the

:19:19. > :19:24.potential for very very nasty weather. We could well see severe