0:00:08 > 0:00:11someone now charged with such a Tonight on Newsnight Scotland: Why
0:00:11 > 0:00:15is there a political row going on over which caps soldiers should
0:00:15 > 0:00:18wear? And how does it connect with aircraft carriers at Rosyth, the
0:00:18 > 0:00:21formation of a new Scottish mobile force or even SAS and the whole
0:00:21 > 0:00:22debate about what might happen to the military if Scotland votes for
0:00:22 > 0:00:25independence? Also tonight, the latest cutting
0:00:25 > 0:00:30edge science might solve our energy needs. It is easy. Simply capture
0:00:30 > 0:00:34the sun and bring it to earth, even at night.
0:00:34 > 0:00:37Good evening. You might wonder why some of the country's best known
0:00:37 > 0:00:40politicians from Alex Salmond to Jim Murphy are becoming so
0:00:40 > 0:00:43exercised about which badges are worn by Scottish soldiers. Is the
0:00:43 > 0:00:47retention of famous military names of any importance to anyone outside
0:00:47 > 0:00:49the military? And does it tell us anything about the wider issue of
0:00:49 > 0:00:59what would happen to the military in an independent Scotland? Here's
0:00:59 > 0:01:04
0:01:04 > 0:01:08It provoked emotion and support. These were campaigners feting to
0:01:08 > 0:01:12save the historic regiments the last time of the British Army was
0:01:12 > 0:01:17restructured -- the campaigners fighting. They were merged to form
0:01:17 > 0:01:20a single regiment. While each battalion was given a number, they
0:01:20 > 0:01:24were allowed to keep their historical names and some of their
0:01:24 > 0:01:27insignia. Now the battle is brewing again as the army does sizes and
0:01:27 > 0:01:32there are fears the battalions could lose their distinct
0:01:32 > 0:01:37identities altogether. This led to a heated exchange -- exchange in
0:01:37 > 0:01:43the Commons. Scotland has a prime history that simply cannot be cast
0:01:43 > 0:01:47aside -- a proud history. Will he guarantee today that the names and
0:01:47 > 0:01:53identities and cap badges will be preserved? Failure to do so well so
0:01:53 > 0:01:58yet again that this is a government totally out of touch with Scotland.
0:01:58 > 0:02:06Did he get a direct answer? He asks about regimental structures in
0:02:06 > 0:02:10Scotland. I can soap this to him. I too have read in a newspaper that I
0:02:10 > 0:02:14am determined to introduce a continental style army without a
0:02:14 > 0:02:18regimental structure. I can say that I understand absolutely the
0:02:18 > 0:02:23vital role that the regimental structure plays in the British Army
0:02:23 > 0:02:27and as long as I am Secretary of State for Defence the regimental
0:02:27 > 0:02:35structure will remain. There was an impassioned debate on this last
0:02:35 > 0:02:39week too. Can I draw his attention to the concern and anger of my
0:02:39 > 0:02:43constituents that he shared elsewhere over the possibility and
0:02:43 > 0:02:47the local identity and pride traditions of the Black Watch being
0:02:47 > 0:02:51lost through regimental merger or coming to be known simply as for
0:02:51 > 0:02:58respots. The First Minister said he had yet to receive clarity from the
0:02:58 > 0:03:04UK minister. In the terms of the arrogance that has been deployed to
0:03:04 > 0:03:08crucially elements of the Scottish regimental condition, there were
0:03:08 > 0:03:14things splashed all over the papers, we are still awaiting the letter
0:03:14 > 0:03:18telling us what exactly the plans are. Much of this argument is to do
0:03:18 > 0:03:22with recruitment. Traditionally it was the regiments that were seen as
0:03:22 > 0:03:27the golden thread linking the military to their local communities.
0:03:27 > 0:03:32Now with only one Scottish Regiment and the UK army due to downsize by
0:03:32 > 0:03:35around 20% some question whether these links are still relevant. The
0:03:35 > 0:03:39Defence Secretary has argued that many units are already known solely
0:03:39 > 0:03:44by their regimental numbers and are no longer have a strong link with
0:03:44 > 0:03:47their traditional recruiting areas. It has been claimed by some that
0:03:47 > 0:03:51the coalition government does not get the strength of emotion in
0:03:51 > 0:03:55Scotland. The Scottish Conservative leader says that she made sure that
0:03:55 > 0:04:00the Prime Minister was left in no doubt of the views of Scotland on
0:04:00 > 0:04:03this issue. She said that the Prime Minister understands issues at
0:04:03 > 0:04:09stake and that it is worth remembering that no decisions have
0:04:09 > 0:04:13been taken yet on the units. The defence debate is complex for now
0:04:13 > 0:04:16and the future. Yesterday the latest section of the aircraft
0:04:16 > 0:04:20carrier HMS Queen Elizabeth was floated up from Portsmouth to
0:04:20 > 0:04:27Rosyth. The Careers Programme which also supports many Scottish jobs is
0:04:27 > 0:04:30not without controversy after the MoD's decision to change the order.
0:04:30 > 0:04:34Then there is the future argument of how an independent Scotland
0:04:34 > 0:04:44might defend itself. The focus far now seems to be on the present but
0:04:44 > 0:04:47the future is not far from the policy makers and legislators minds.
0:04:47 > 0:04:49I'm joined now from Edinburgh by former Lieutenant Colonel Stewart
0:04:49 > 0:04:52Crawford, whose ideas for post- independence defence were discussed
0:04:53 > 0:04:58today. And from Oxford by Professor Hugh Strawn who is a Fellow of All
0:04:58 > 0:05:03Souls and a Ministry of Defence adviser. You were in the military
0:05:03 > 0:05:07until recently, at the Stewart, can you explain whether you think this
0:05:07 > 0:05:12whole business of whether or not the Italians should be allowed to
0:05:12 > 0:05:18wear different badges is of any real importance -- the battalion's?
0:05:18 > 0:05:24I do think it is of some importance. In the last round of reorganisation
0:05:24 > 0:05:28of the army and inventory particularly in 2005 I was part of
0:05:28 > 0:05:31the campaigning group that strove unsuccessfully to maintain the
0:05:31 > 0:05:37traditional Scottish regiments. I think that a very strong part of
0:05:37 > 0:05:42the fighting prowess of all infantry units, particularly the
0:05:42 > 0:05:46Scottish battalions, is their own regimental ethos, the traditions,
0:05:46 > 0:05:51the history and the geographical ties. They bring to vent their own
0:05:51 > 0:05:56unit cohesion. You would disagree when Philip Hammond says that at
0:05:56 > 0:05:59least with some regiments and battalions any connection with
0:05:59 > 0:06:09recruiting in the local area has long since gone? You would
0:06:09 > 0:06:19
0:06:19 > 0:06:28I would say there is still a very strong rink. Would you agree with
0:06:28 > 0:06:38that? I would not, actually. One of the problems that Scotland has had,
0:06:38 > 0:06:41and it is not an you, -- a new problem, we have always had more
0:06:42 > 0:06:51regiments in Scotland trying to recruit them be able to recruit
0:06:52 > 0:06:53
0:06:53 > 0:06:58from a. There are simply too many battalions chasing too few people.
0:06:58 > 0:07:04This issue has arisen with every spending review because of the
0:07:04 > 0:07:08power in the Scottish regiments in sustaining their identities and the
0:07:08 > 0:07:12consequent problems of trying to fill their ranks. You think it
0:07:12 > 0:07:19would not really matter if you just had a Scottish regiment with
0:07:19 > 0:07:29several battalions which were called one Scots, took back Scots?
0:07:29 > 0:07:37
0:07:37 > 0:07:43That happened in 2004. They are already called one Scots, two Scots.
0:07:43 > 0:07:47It I, like everybody else, identify with the names and feel the
0:07:47 > 0:07:50emotional pull of those, but we should not get so carried away that
0:07:50 > 0:07:58we lose sight of what is really going on here. The fundamental
0:07:58 > 0:08:06debate today is the future organisation of the British Army.
0:08:06 > 0:08:09As you have already reported, they army has to come down by about 17%
0:08:09 > 0:08:19and you are not going to achieve that without a restructuring of the
0:08:19 > 0:08:22
0:08:22 > 0:08:26current units. Why do you disagree? The fundamental point is that
0:08:26 > 0:08:31behind the caps and badges issue, there is a regimental structure
0:08:31 > 0:08:36which was designed for recruiting thousands of people, but not for
0:08:36 > 0:08:41the kind of recruiting that is going on it now. There is an
0:08:41 > 0:08:46argument to be made there. But I do think that the emotional,
0:08:46 > 0:08:50traditional and historical links... What about combining those? If
0:08:50 > 0:09:00another battalion is cut, their names could be tagged on to the
0:09:00 > 0:09:10names of other battalions. Would that be acceptable? That is more
0:09:10 > 0:09:20acceptable than at them becoming numbered to battalions, a more for
0:09:20 > 0:09:27
0:09:27 > 0:09:34us and anonymous. -- amorphous. That is infinitely preferable.
0:09:34 > 0:09:44you have already alluded, the debate about badgers masks the
0:09:44 > 0:09:49
0:09:49 > 0:09:53debate about cuts in the Armed Forces. - badges. We were told that
0:09:53 > 0:09:58a tank regiment would come to rehearse. Now at the suggestion is
0:09:58 > 0:10:03that is up in the air again? There is a radical revision of the Army's
0:10:03 > 0:10:09organisation going on at the moment. A statement was due out during the
0:10:09 > 0:10:19Easter recess about what that she would be. A post Afghanistan army,
0:10:19 > 0:10:21
0:10:21 > 0:10:26an army designed to withdraw from Germany by 2020. You are right that
0:10:26 > 0:10:30there was to be an additional brigade in Scotland. I do not know
0:10:30 > 0:10:36what the outcome of that discussion will be. The Ministry of Defence
0:10:36 > 0:10:43has kept his close to its chest because it recognises exactly what
0:10:43 > 0:10:46we are now debating, which is the emotive pull of certain regiments.
0:10:46 > 0:10:50One of the difficulties for everybody is the protracted nature
0:10:50 > 0:10:56of the debate which has now gone public but which has been going on
0:10:56 > 0:10:59in the army for the last few months, that many people currently serving
0:10:59 > 0:11:09do not know with whom are they will serve, or whether they will have
0:11:09 > 0:11:16jobs. I want to get you opinions on this conference in Edinburgh today.
0:11:16 > 0:11:23You were suggesting that if Scotland ever became independent,
0:11:23 > 0:11:30you were suggesting what the military would look like.
0:11:30 > 0:11:36Presumably, what you are proposing would not actually be created to do
0:11:37 > 0:11:43anything like what they are British Army does. That is correct. I have
0:11:43 > 0:11:48made the assumption in the absence of any statement of foreign policy
0:11:48 > 0:11:54for Scotland that Scotland would have a regional focus rather than a
0:11:54 > 0:12:00global focus. That allows on my model to follow the lines of a much
0:12:00 > 0:12:08more modest army service with much more modest equipment and being at
0:12:08 > 0:12:12considerably cheaper. What you are suggesting has not been entirely
0:12:12 > 0:12:18welcomed by people in the SNP and the Scottish government who say
0:12:18 > 0:12:27there is no reason that Scottish could not -- there is no reason why
0:12:27 > 0:12:37Scotland could not have something like jets. I describe the Minimum
0:12:37 > 0:12:38
0:12:38 > 0:12:42that Scotland would lead. option remains with the government
0:12:42 > 0:12:47to come up with something more substantial than I have. Is that a
0:12:47 > 0:12:54debate which needs to be had? When we talk about these configurations
0:12:54 > 0:13:00of military brigades, underlying that is a vision of what you want
0:13:00 > 0:13:06your country to be. If it Scotland was to go on its own, that debate
0:13:06 > 0:13:12needs to be had. Its absolutely needs to be had. And I think the
0:13:12 > 0:13:22work done so far is a good first step. But what is the Foreign
0:13:22 > 0:13:30
0:13:31 > 0:13:40political context within which this is set. The elements are configured
0:13:40 > 0:13:46on a model off, -- a model of independence from anybody. It might
0:13:46 > 0:13:56make more sense to do e-sure capabilities. Things that we could
0:13:56 > 0:14:00
0:14:00 > 0:14:03bring to a coalition force. -- niche. Now, solar power is a great
0:14:03 > 0:14:06idea in principle. But the weather and the night tend to spoil things
0:14:06 > 0:14:08somewhat. New research here in Scotland is looking to overcome
0:14:08 > 0:14:11that. Aerospace engineers at Strathclyde University working with
0:14:11 > 0:14:15colleagues in Europe, Japan and the US are aiming to put a solar power
0:14:15 > 0:14:25station in space and beam the power down to Earth. Here's our science
0:14:25 > 0:14:25
0:14:25 > 0:14:31It burns 4 million tonnes of fuel every second and gives the energy
0:14:31 > 0:14:37away for three. Down here, we have developed technologies to harvest
0:14:37 > 0:14:46that energy. But being on the earth a's surface has its limitations.
0:14:46 > 0:14:51The weather gets in the way and at night, that power get turned off.
0:14:51 > 0:14:58Essentially, you have a power plant in the space instead of on earth.
0:14:58 > 0:15:05You can beam down energy to any location on earth on demand. You
0:15:05 > 0:15:14can do it all sorts at night time. -- you can do it as well at night
0:15:14 > 0:15:24time. And what ever the weather. One potential application would be
0:15:24 > 0:15:29
0:15:29 > 0:15:36in disaster areas. You could support mobile military camps who
0:15:36 > 0:15:46can work in a lower level of power. They need to be able to move
0:15:46 > 0:15:47
0:15:47 > 0:15:53quickly and independent of the risk of having the power source cut off.
0:15:53 > 0:16:03The trick is getting a power station up there. The international
0:16:03 > 0:16:10
0:16:10 > 0:16:20space station is proof that getting a station into orbit is not easy.
0:16:20 > 0:16:22
0:16:22 > 0:16:32If you want to have an and 10 I -- and and 10 are, you cannot build --
0:16:32 > 0:16:33
0:16:33 > 0:16:43an antenna. Making them strong is the next step. We put this into the
0:16:43 > 0:16:48
0:16:48 > 0:16:53Two pieces of lightweight plastic have been welded together. The tiny
0:16:53 > 0:16:58amount of beer trapped between them expanse in space. In orbit, the
0:16:58 > 0:17:03structure would be much bigger, but the principle is at the same. We
0:17:03 > 0:17:13have to concentrate the sun's energy on one point of the Solar re
0:17:13 > 0:17:16
0:17:16 > 0:17:26to achieve more energy. -- ray. This would act as a reflector.
0:17:26 > 0:17:27
0:17:27 > 0:17:31of these ideas have already taken off. Area this year, the team
0:17:31 > 0:17:41launched an experiment to the edge of space to test a lightweight
0:17:41 > 0:17:45
0:17:45 > 0:17:55spilling met which could be the foundation of the Solar satellite.
0:17:55 > 0:17:58
0:17:58 > 0:18:07The spacemen did deploy but the parachute did not open -- the space
0:18:07 > 0:18:17net. We know roughly where it is, but we have to organise a recovery
0:18:17 > 0:18:17
0:18:17 > 0:18:27expedition. If you visit Lapland, this is what the Pope looks like.
0:18:27 > 0:18:31
0:18:31 > 0:18:37There could be even more to all this. -- probe. This is not a power
0:18:37 > 0:18:42station in the sky. The science is in place. Most of the energy
0:18:42 > 0:18:52companies are investing in such structures. The difficult part is
0:18:52 > 0:18:52
0:18:52 > 0:18:59to convince everybody to take that first step. He's small wind turbine
0:19:00 > 0:19:09is easy to buy and install. To put it in space is much more
0:19:10 > 0:19:10
0:19:10 > 0:19:20complicated. We are rather advanced. On paper, we can already build a
0:19:20 > 0:19:26
0:19:26 > 0:19:35demonstrator and have something in Its likely to be years before be