0:00:00 > 0:00:04builds in spite of questions about security and commercialism, what --
0:00:04 > 0:00:11we wonder what cintheens like Eric Liddell would make of what sport
0:00:11 > 0:00:14he's done. We -- are elite athletes and their sponsors too privileged
0:00:14 > 0:00:17to make good role models? A Scottish millionaire will lead the
0:00:17 > 0:00:20British team in the Olympic opening ceremony, and many of his team
0:00:20 > 0:00:22colleagues will be richer still, as a result of sporting success. As
0:00:22 > 0:00:25sponsors jealously protect their billion-pound investments in the
0:00:25 > 0:00:31Games, are we losing touch with the idea that sport is still about
0:00:31 > 0:00:34enjoyment by the participants, for the entertainment of crowds? I've
0:00:34 > 0:00:39been following the story of Eric Lidell, whose heroism transcended
0:00:39 > 0:00:43the amateur running track and lead ultimately to his early death. But
0:00:43 > 0:00:52what would a character like Liddell make of top-level sport in the 21st
0:00:52 > 0:01:00Century? The torch relay had yet to be invented when Eric Liddell raced
0:01:00 > 0:01:04in the Olympics. He won gold in Paris in 1924. It was a time when
0:01:04 > 0:01:10athletes were still amateurs. Almost a century on, two of his
0:01:10 > 0:01:17daughters think he'd struggle to recognise the modern Games. I think
0:01:17 > 0:01:24a lot of these young people in sports they're under huge pressure,
0:01:24 > 0:01:29absolutely massive pressure, to make the big money, to win at all
0:01:29 > 0:01:33costs - for some - and how they have to practice and practice. They
0:01:33 > 0:01:39practically have to give up a lot of their ordinary life just into
0:01:39 > 0:01:46the sport. Do you think your father could have succeeded in that kind
0:01:46 > 0:01:50of environment? I don't think he would have wanted to succeed in
0:01:50 > 0:01:59that kind of environment. I think there's so much pressure on young
0:01:59 > 0:02:05people these days that they must win. They've put so much effort and
0:02:05 > 0:02:12time into becoming this superb athlete that they are and they can
0:02:12 > 0:02:19be very easily tempted to cheat in some way in order to get to win the
0:02:19 > 0:02:26gold. I just feel that my dad would be a good person for them to read
0:02:26 > 0:02:29about, when they're in their career, to show that winning the gold is
0:02:29 > 0:02:36not the most important thing in their life, but being true to
0:02:36 > 0:02:40themselves is. That's an Olympic ideal the man who founded the
0:02:40 > 0:02:45modern Games would have approved of. The important thing is life in s
0:02:45 > 0:02:52not the triumph, but the struggle. The essential thing is not to have
0:02:52 > 0:03:00conquered but to have fought well. I believe God made me for a purpose.
0:03:00 > 0:03:05But he also made me fast. And when I run, I feel his pleasure. Liddell
0:03:05 > 0:03:10famously refused to run on a Sunday, excluding himself from his best
0:03:10 > 0:03:16event. He switched distance and won any way. It's a story that inspired
0:03:16 > 0:03:26the movie charities of fire. think Eric was an Olympian in the
0:03:26 > 0:03:27
0:03:27 > 0:03:31terms that De Courbetan would have understood. I imagine, I guess if I
0:03:31 > 0:03:38could eavesdrop on any conversation, I would have loved to hear what he
0:03:38 > 0:03:47said to Eric, assuming they met. I think Eric would be bemused. I've
0:03:47 > 0:03:53always believed De Courbetan would have been delighted. I believe his
0:03:53 > 0:04:00ideals have been distorted by all sorts of things. It breaks my heart.
0:04:00 > 0:04:02Television will bring London 2012 to a live audience ash the world,
0:04:02 > 0:04:06which obviously wasn't possible in Liddell's day. Some feel the
0:04:06 > 0:04:12essential competition hasn't changed. I think he would recognise
0:04:12 > 0:04:15it. I think he would see how some thrive in it. It hasn't
0:04:15 > 0:04:19fundamentally changed. Do these athletes still respect officials
0:04:19 > 0:04:24and the rules of the game, largely so. We have the odd thing going on,
0:04:24 > 0:04:30as you're aware, in terms of the kind of the doping side of sport.
0:04:30 > 0:04:37It's kind of moved a bit there. Still 99% of people do it for the
0:04:37 > 0:04:40right reasons and the underlining edge os of the Games is still there.
0:04:40 > 0:04:47It's athletes, not just him, the competitive people would recognise
0:04:47 > 0:04:51it. You just see them. Deep down you'd say wow, I'd love to be
0:04:51 > 0:04:57competing today. Heather Liddell thinks drugs, professionalism and
0:04:57 > 0:05:03big sponsorship money would get her father down. I think he would be
0:05:03 > 0:05:13depressed about it. I think he would, if he was here, he would be
0:05:13 > 0:05:13
0:05:13 > 0:05:20a voice for changing that. What would he be saying? I think just
0:05:20 > 0:05:30what I said really that a Gold Medal is not worth losing your soul
0:05:30 > 0:05:33for. Absolutely. I'm joined now by two veteran Sports reporters, who
0:05:33 > 0:05:36have covered 17 summer Olympics between them and will shortly be
0:05:36 > 0:05:39setting off for London. Sandy Sutherland of the Evening News is
0:05:39 > 0:05:49in Edinburgh, and Herald athletics correspondent Doug Gillon is in our
0:05:49 > 0:05:55Plymouth studio. Doug, you first, would Eric Liddell be depressed by
0:05:55 > 0:06:00London 2012 were he alive to witness these Games? I think he'd
0:06:00 > 0:06:09be astonished. I don't think he'd break stride frankly. He memraibl
0:06:09 > 0:06:14worked in the labour camp in China where he eventually died. He
0:06:14 > 0:06:19refereed matches between kids. He was prepared to do that on the
0:06:19 > 0:06:23Sabbath to create and to preserve peace and quiet. I don't think he'd
0:06:23 > 0:06:30be too worried about it. I think the way that charities of fire
0:06:30 > 0:06:35perhaps portrayed him as being stuffy and his sister being stuffy
0:06:35 > 0:06:39is incorrect. I sat beside Jennie when the professional athletes in
0:06:39 > 0:06:44Edinburgh decided to inaugurate a medal in his honour and when a
0:06:44 > 0:06:48bookmaker started chalking odds on the board for the new year sprint,
0:06:49 > 0:06:54she wondered what was going on. When I told her rather reluctantly,
0:06:54 > 0:06:58she blinked for a second and said, "I refuse to be upset. Eric would
0:06:58 > 0:07:04never have denied people their simple pleasures." That tells you a
0:07:04 > 0:07:11lot about his sister. And how he viewed things. Certainly he did put
0:07:11 > 0:07:15principle before personal ambition in terms of defending his belief in
0:07:15 > 0:07:20the Sabbath not being used for sport in terms of the Olympics.
0:07:20 > 0:07:24What do you think he would make of the modern Games? I was interested
0:07:24 > 0:07:30in what Doug said about Liddell's attitudes. He wasn't narrow minded
0:07:30 > 0:07:36and perhaps not many people know that there were scenes shot of
0:07:36 > 0:07:40Liddell as Ian Charleston, the actor, training for the 1924
0:07:40 > 0:07:44Olympics at Powder Hall, with the professionals. He was quite happy
0:07:44 > 0:07:49to accept their help. But some of our narrow minded amateur officials
0:07:49 > 0:07:53that Doug and I have known over the years might have said he should
0:07:53 > 0:07:55have been disqualified for. That I think he would certainly not have
0:07:55 > 0:08:02been happy about the way the corporate thing has taken over.
0:08:02 > 0:08:06There's a lot of things like just little things annoying things for
0:08:06 > 0:08:14spectators, like the fact they can't take in their own water and
0:08:14 > 0:08:17these restrictions, which perhaps think he was focused on running and
0:08:17 > 0:08:23he would certainly not have cheated himself. I think he was happy with
0:08:23 > 0:08:28others to accept money and their rewards. Was there ever a time Doug
0:08:28 > 0:08:33when athletes taking part genuinely believed that taking part was more
0:08:33 > 0:08:43important than winning or was that just something that Liddell himself
0:08:43 > 0:08:46
0:08:46 > 0:08:50per sued? Liddell employed a man called Tom Kirker who was a
0:08:50 > 0:08:56professional coach. He wanted to win. Every athlete wants the best
0:08:56 > 0:09:01out of himself that he can. I don't think it's changed at all in that
0:09:01 > 0:09:05respect. And you highlight the British team being brought in by a
0:09:05 > 0:09:09millionaire, Sir Chris Hoy. The millionaire Sir Chris Hoy has been
0:09:09 > 0:09:13voted to do that by all the competitors on the British team,
0:09:13 > 0:09:16very few of whom are millionaires and some of whose families have
0:09:17 > 0:09:20sold their houses two and three times, Scottish athletes in the
0:09:20 > 0:09:24team have done that or a Scottish athlete in the team has done that.
0:09:24 > 0:09:29It's the tip of the iceberg, you know, there's very few people in
0:09:29 > 0:09:33the Olympics who will be millionaires. The great rank and
0:09:33 > 0:09:39file have sacrificed financially and in many other ways. They're
0:09:39 > 0:09:47doing it mainly for the pursuit of being the best. That applies to the
0:09:47 > 0:09:52Sir Chris Hoys and Usain Bolts, the Paula Radcliffe's and Jessica
0:09:52 > 0:09:57Enniss who have made seven figures out of their sport. Given the
0:09:57 > 0:10:01sacrifice that modern athletes have to make to be competitive at the
0:10:01 > 0:10:11top level and given some of the prizes that are available, does
0:10:11 > 0:10:11
0:10:11 > 0:10:18that make it more tempting to I think they have always cheated.
0:10:18 > 0:10:26If you think of things going on at the first of the modern Olympics LA
0:10:26 > 0:10:29to in 1908, a good programme earlier today on the strychnine and
0:10:29 > 0:10:34brandy and a quite they took on the marathon to improve their
0:10:34 > 0:10:41performance, I do not think the temptations are greater. People
0:10:41 > 0:10:48want to win at first. Do you think if we had drugs testing are back in
0:10:48 > 0:10:53the day, there would have been more scandal? I think there would have
0:10:53 > 0:11:01been more scandal. We did not have the appreciation of doping in 1896.
0:11:01 > 0:11:06The first win of the only Olympic event in the ancient Olympics, who
0:11:06 > 0:11:12won the sprint, all the competitors before the race had to place their
0:11:13 > 0:11:19hand on a slice of meat to swear they had not used magic. So nothing
0:11:19 > 0:11:24has changed. We can talk more about money in the sport. There are
0:11:24 > 0:11:30millions of pounds invested in the a London 2012 by a major sponsors,
0:11:30 > 0:11:35global corporations, does that change the nature of the Olympics?
0:11:35 > 0:11:40In some ways it does, but one of the good things about the games is
0:11:40 > 0:11:46you have clean then use and you see athletes, I will go to basketball,
0:11:46 > 0:11:50you see them playing in uniforms without sponsorship logo has. One
0:11:50 > 0:11:57thing that annoys me about modern athletics, when you see the big
0:11:57 > 0:12:02meetings, you cannot tell who the athletes are, because they have the
0:12:02 > 0:12:07sponsors on their uniforms and they look alike. You see several loan
0:12:07 > 0:12:13goes of different sponsors. I am looking forward to that form of
0:12:13 > 0:12:23sport in the Olympics, which is clean. It is laid down strictly by
0:12:23 > 0:12:24
0:12:24 > 0:12:30the Olympic Committee. What you can and cannot wear. Does that kind of
0:12:30 > 0:12:35sponsorship and the intensity of it mean that the most likely legacy of
0:12:35 > 0:12:41the Olympics is that youngsters will be more discerning about their
0:12:41 > 0:12:46choice of hamburger or fizzy drinks brand, rather than about the sport
0:12:46 > 0:12:52they want to be involved in and passionate about? You are right to
0:12:52 > 0:12:58highlight that. One tacky thing I saw at the Olympics was in Atlanta,
0:12:58 > 0:13:04when a certain hamburger company had the cast and it delivers its
0:13:04 > 0:13:10French fries in, mocked up as the cauldron for the Olympic flame. I
0:13:10 > 0:13:15have not seen anything tackier. The committee, who need the sponsorship
0:13:15 > 0:13:20money that comes from the corporations, they have actually
0:13:20 > 0:13:24told a certain soft drink company that they need to think about their
0:13:24 > 0:13:30product and there is too much sugar in it and they are telling a
0:13:30 > 0:13:35certain hamburger company there is too much fat, and if they can use
0:13:35 > 0:13:41the Olympic movement to get over health man -- messages, some good
0:13:41 > 0:13:46will have been achieved. What about the aspirations for London and the
0:13:46 > 0:13:51Commonwealth Games in a couple of years to have a lasting legacy in
0:13:51 > 0:13:57terms of a positive impact on health and commitment to sport in
0:13:57 > 0:14:03the next generation, will that be achieved? I am not sure. The
0:14:03 > 0:14:07Commonwealth Games are not the same. The 1896 games are an example of
0:14:07 > 0:14:15how we in Scotland suffered because of the rush to embrace
0:14:15 > 0:14:18commercialism. Margaret Thatcher -- 1996. Margaret Thatcher did not
0:14:18 > 0:14:24want us to have any assistance. That was the only Commonwealth
0:14:24 > 0:14:29Games without major assistance from government, national and regional.
0:14:29 > 0:14:34My fear is we will go through the same route with tickets, which has
0:14:34 > 0:14:37been a shambles, and ordinary people who want to attend the
0:14:37 > 0:14:43Friendly Games will not be able to get the tickets and it will no
0:14:43 > 0:14:52longer be the friendly games. We do not have the vast pulling power of
0:14:52 > 0:15:00the Olympics. It is disappointing that attempts to get children to
0:15:00 > 0:15:04take up sport have been not terribly well achieved. Three, five
0:15:05 > 0:15:10years ago, we suggest is there should be a drive to create
0:15:10 > 0:15:15foundation levels coaches in a wide range of Commonwealth Games and
0:15:15 > 0:15:19Olympic Sports so that we would benefit from an influx of children
0:15:20 > 0:15:24inspired by the Olympics and Commonwealth Games. I do not
0:15:24 > 0:15:31believe this number of foundation level coaches have been educated
0:15:31 > 0:15:35and consequently, when children go to sports clubs after the Olympics
0:15:35 > 0:15:40and Commonwealth Games, there will not be enough coaches around to
0:15:40 > 0:15:46welcome these children and inspire them for the feature. That part of
0:15:46 > 0:15:50the legacy, I think, is at risk. Certainly for the Olympics, but
0:15:50 > 0:15:56maybe not too late to do something about it for the Commonwealth Games.
0:15:56 > 0:16:02Thank you both very much indeed. Thank you both very much indeed.
0:16:02 > 0:16:08The front pages. A lot of Olympic coverage. Sir Chris Hoy says that
0:16:08 > 0:16:16his dream has come true as he is his dream has come true as he is