:00:14. > :00:19.will leave is it there thank you very much. The Government says yes
:00:19. > :00:22.to same-sex campaigners and earns the support of campaigners and its
:00:22. > :00:24.political opponents north and south of the border. Many religious
:00:24. > :00:29.organisations remain opposed. Is the Government right to press
:00:29. > :00:35.ahead? Why did it ignore the results of its own consultation on
:00:35. > :00:38.the issue? A detective who lied to convict two innocent men is jailed
:00:38. > :00:48.for five years. Police say they have cleaned up their act, but have
:00:48. > :00:55.
:00:55. > :00:58.they? The Scottish government has finally announced that tin tends to
:00:58. > :01:01.legislate to introduce same-sex marriage. It insist there is is no
:01:02. > :01:08.possibility that unwilling priests or ministers will be forced to
:01:08. > :01:11.conduct the ceremonies. That may need changes to UK law, but even if
:01:11. > :01:18.that happens religious organisations remain deeply opposed.
:01:18. > :01:22.Today, they published the results of a consultation on the issue.
:01:22. > :01:28.There were 7 7,000 500 responses and the question of same-sex
:01:28. > :01:33.marriage. 1% came from within Scotland. The only area of
:01:33. > :01:40.consensus is that 93% of all responses agreed that conducting
:01:40. > :01:44.same-sex marriage should not be compulsory for any religious
:01:44. > :01:49.organisation. The Government say that if you look at so-called
:01:49. > :01:53.standard responses, that is excluding postcards and petitions,
:01:53. > :01:58.and responses from outward Scotland, 65% favoured same-sex marriage
:01:58. > :02:07.against 35% against. If you look at all the responses, including
:02:08. > :02:12.petitions on postcards, the numbers are reversed, 67% against with 32%
:02:12. > :02:22.for. The UK Government has responded postively so far to the
:02:22. > :02:28.
:02:28. > :02:34.SNP's initiative. The Home Office The move is contentious in Scottish
:02:35. > :02:39.society, but supported by most MSPs and MPs. Labour's Scottish leader
:02:39. > :02:43.welcomed the move and spoke of wanting to see real marriage
:02:43. > :02:50.equality. The Scottish Liberal Democrat leader offered support to
:02:50. > :02:54.achieve any necessary additional legislation. Opponents of the plan
:02:54. > :02:58.remain implaquable. We made it clear the other day, when we had a
:02:58. > :03:06.meeting with Nicola Sturgeon, if that -- that if the Government go
:03:06. > :03:11.awhaed this, the Muslim, -- clergy will instruct their audiences not
:03:11. > :03:15.to vote for any politician who goes for this. Who is for this change in
:03:15. > :03:21.the law. Our concern is with the wider redefinition and the impact
:03:21. > :03:25.it will have on society. For teachers and social workers and
:03:25. > :03:29.registrars and anyone in public employment who doesn't feel
:03:29. > :03:34.comfortable with same-sex marriage, what protection will they have.
:03:34. > :03:39.What protection will a teacher have in a classroom if he or she doesn't
:03:39. > :03:42.want to read a same-sex book in a classroom to children. A bill
:03:42. > :03:46.should be published before the end of the year. The Deputy First
:03:46. > :03:49.Minister came to the BBC in Glasgow. She said that UK equality laws will
:03:49. > :03:54.need to be changed to permit the new Scottish law. I asked her,
:03:54. > :04:03.first of all, what the problem is with the existing law? Well, let me
:04:03. > :04:07.try to explain it simply. We said all along that no church and no
:04:08. > :04:10.religious organisation will be expelled to conduct same-sex
:04:10. > :04:18.marriages. The Equality Act gives that protection. What we consider
:04:18. > :04:21.is the case though is that we need amend the Equality Act to give
:04:21. > :04:25.protection to individuals who feel same-sex marriage runs contrary to
:04:25. > :04:29.their faith, but whose church has decided they do approve of
:04:29. > :04:33.conducting same-sex marriages. It's a fairly simple amendment that is
:04:33. > :04:38.required to the qup equality Act. We are having discussions with the
:04:39. > :04:44.UK Government on matter. We don't consider that it requires...
:04:44. > :04:48.amendment would say that, feign you are a member of a church that
:04:48. > :04:54.approves of gay marriage, and you are against it, you have the right
:04:54. > :04:57.not to conduct ceremonies? Absolutely. Your legal advice is
:04:57. > :05:01.that such an amendment would guarantee, is it, that they could
:05:01. > :05:05.never be prosecuted? We are confident that protection can be
:05:05. > :05:10.given under existing law to churches and with an amendment
:05:10. > :05:14.along the lines to the Equality Act we are confident that protection
:05:14. > :05:19.can be avoided to individuals as well. That is important protection.
:05:19. > :05:23.The role of the state is to regulate the civil contract of
:05:23. > :05:27.marriage. The the role of the state should not be to tell churches who
:05:27. > :05:33.they can or can't or should or shouldn't marry. The Home Office is
:05:33. > :05:39.sympathetic to this. If, anything can happen, for some reason it's
:05:39. > :05:44.not possible to change British law, in order for your new bill to come
:05:44. > :05:49.into force, is it it your intention to go-ahead on it? I will not
:05:49. > :05:53.speculate. I don't think it will arise. That amendment required to
:05:53. > :05:56.the Equality Act is a simple amendment. It can be done by
:05:56. > :06:01.secondary legislation. The response from the Home Office is
:06:01. > :06:05.constructive and positive. I see no reason why we would find yourselves
:06:05. > :06:09.that h in that position. These things happen? I don't envisage it
:06:09. > :06:12.will happen. I think it's very important at this stage that, as
:06:12. > :06:16.the Government, we balance two things. We balance -- balance the
:06:16. > :06:20.very important need for equality, we have made an announcement today
:06:20. > :06:25.that we think is right to allow loving couples to commit to each
:06:25. > :06:28.other in marriage. We also think it is incredibly important to
:06:28. > :06:33.guarantee the protection of freedom of speech and freedom of religion.
:06:33. > :06:36.That is the balance we are rightly seeking to strike. You won't go-
:06:36. > :06:40.ahead unless you get a change to the law? We can have this exchange
:06:40. > :06:44.for some time. I don't think it would be productive. I don't
:06:44. > :06:51.envisage that is the position we will find yourselves in. From the
:06:51. > :06:56.public comment I don't get the impression they think we will find
:06:56. > :07:01.yourselves in. David Cameron is hoping to legalise same-sex
:07:01. > :07:05.marriage in registry offices, not churches. Why did you reject that?
:07:05. > :07:11.We looked at all arguments. We considered that it would not be the
:07:11. > :07:17.right position to say, as same-sex couple can get marriedied. If they
:07:17. > :07:21.have a church and an individual who wants to conduct that marriage our
:07:21. > :07:26.position should be to say no to that. What we are firm about is
:07:26. > :07:31.that it's not the role of government to compel churches to
:07:32. > :07:36.conduct same-sex marriages. If they want to conduct such a ceremony it
:07:36. > :07:40.isn't the job of Government to say they can't. Gordon Wilson, one of
:07:40. > :07:47.your former party leaders, and his fellow campaigners, have said if
:07:47. > :07:50.you press ahead with this it will cost you "yes" votes on your
:07:50. > :07:55.referendum on independence. Is he wrong? I don't agree with him on
:07:55. > :07:59.that point. I have the greatest of respect for Gordon. He is a valued
:07:59. > :08:03.colleague and a respected former leader of the SNP. I agree with him
:08:03. > :08:06.on many, many things. I don't believe this is a party political
:08:06. > :08:10.issue. If you look at the position in the Scottish Parliament, the
:08:10. > :08:16.leader of every one of the other parties has come out strongly in
:08:16. > :08:19.favour of same-sex marriage. I don't believe it's right to preempt
:08:20. > :08:23.any legislative process. All the indications are there is a
:08:23. > :08:27.parliamentary majority in favour of this. I don't consider it to be a
:08:28. > :08:31.party political issue or one that is relevant in the context of the
:08:31. > :08:37.independence debate. I'm sure if Gordon Wilson was sitting here,
:08:37. > :08:41.what he would point out to you, in your consult the majority were
:08:41. > :08:45.against same-sex marriage and you choose to ignore them? I don't
:08:45. > :08:49.accept that characterisation. The consultation has strengthened our
:08:49. > :08:54.resolve that, by proceeding with same-sex marriage it's important
:08:54. > :08:58.that we ensure protections for religious freedom, freedom of
:08:58. > :09:03.speech. As any Government would have to do, we take account of a
:09:03. > :09:06.range of factors, the consultation, other indications such as public
:09:06. > :09:12.opinion. The fact that I said that every other party leader in the
:09:12. > :09:15.Parliament is in favour of same-sex marriage. Of course, the
:09:15. > :09:19.parliamentary arithmetic. Our own views of what is the right thing to
:09:19. > :09:23.do. We weighed up all the factors, we came to the decision we
:09:23. > :09:26.announced today. We think it's the right thing to do. We think it's
:09:26. > :09:31.right to ensure important protections. Nobody's rights will
:09:31. > :09:36.be trampled on here. It is not the job of Government to dictate to
:09:36. > :09:40.churches. This Government won't do that. You will apply the same
:09:40. > :09:48.criteria to your consultation on a referendum on on independence?
:09:48. > :09:54.us wait and see. To be clear, we won't expect to hear the SNP saying
:09:54. > :10:00.we need a two point referendum when your consultation tells us we
:10:00. > :10:05.have... That is a nice try. It's a reasonable point to make. I may
:10:05. > :10:09.describe it as a nice try. The results on the consultation of the
:10:09. > :10:13.referendum are not yet published. People in Scotland will kpwet get
:10:14. > :10:20.the opportunity to decide the question of independence as is
:10:20. > :10:25.appropriate on matters of consultation. I will not get drawn
:10:25. > :10:29.on a consultation that hasn't been published. You established an
:10:29. > :10:32.important principle - Governments take into account a range of
:10:32. > :10:36.factors - You didn't pay any attention - I will do a deal with
:10:36. > :10:41.you. I will come back on and talk about the independence referendum
:10:41. > :10:45.consultation when the results of that are published. You want
:10:45. > :10:49.another consultation on this issue. You seem to be worried that
:10:49. > :10:53.teachers and parents could be open to prosecution? I'm not worried.
:10:53. > :10:57.What is the problem? I'm not worried about that. I think it's
:10:57. > :11:02.right we listen to concerns expressed. We do our level best to
:11:02. > :11:07.address those concerns. What are the concerns? Other people are
:11:07. > :11:09.concerned that, for example, a teacher that didn't agree with
:11:09. > :11:13.same-sex marriage might find themselves in a difficult position
:11:14. > :11:17.or parents views will not be taking into account in terms of the
:11:17. > :11:21.curriculum. We want to assure people that is not the case. Is the
:11:21. > :11:26.worry, for example, even though you will continue to give the Catholic
:11:26. > :11:30.Church the determining rights on what faith teaching is in Catholic
:11:30. > :11:34.schools, if a teacher in a Catholic school were to teach against gay
:11:34. > :11:39.marriage, after the bill goes through, they could be open to
:11:39. > :11:44.prosecution? I'm certain that will not happen. I do recognise the
:11:44. > :11:48.responsibility to do what ever we can to assure other people. The
:11:48. > :11:54.Catholic education point is a good one. What would need to be changed?
:11:54. > :12:01.If you let me finishish. The faith content of the curriculum in
:12:01. > :12:11.Catholic schools is determined by the Catholic education service.
:12:11. > :12:26.
:12:27. > :12:31.What may required to be cleared is Today, the Shadow Home Secretary
:12:31. > :12:38.described it deeply wrong, shocking and distressing, the comments of
:12:38. > :12:43.the new Archbishop, due concurred that the comments were deeply
:12:43. > :12:47.wrong? I did not see the comments of the Shadow Home Secretary, so I
:12:47. > :12:54.will put them in my own words. In his tenure of Archbishop of Glasgow,
:12:54. > :12:58.there are many things that I would disagree with imam, on this issue,
:12:58. > :13:02.I profoundly disagree that the comments he made in terms of the
:13:02. > :13:06.specifics, but the tragic death of David Cairns, but in the generality
:13:06. > :13:11.in making a link between ill-health and homosexuality, I profoundly
:13:11. > :13:14.disagree with these statements. Now, a former police detective has
:13:14. > :13:17.been jailed for five years for corruptly withholding evidence in a
:13:17. > :13:21.murder investigation which he led for Fife Constabulary. Two innocent
:13:21. > :13:23.men served 10 years in prison as a result of his actions. Today's
:13:23. > :13:26.sentencing followed a lengthy investigation by Lothian and
:13:26. > :13:29.Borders Police. It's believed to be the first time in British history
:13:29. > :13:33.that a police officer has been convicted in this way in a
:13:33. > :13:36.miscarriage of justice case. And now the Crown Office has ordered a
:13:36. > :13:44.review of the evidence relating to the original murder. Our
:13:44. > :13:52.investigations correspondent Mark Daly reports.
:13:52. > :13:58.Mr Munro! Mr Munro! I am a McAlea from the BBC. I would like to ask
:13:58. > :14:05.you some questions about hear conduct in the and Riverside murder
:14:05. > :14:09.investigation? -- the Andrew Forsyth murder investigation. I
:14:09. > :14:15.tracked down the police man but he refused to answer my questions on
:14:15. > :14:20.that day. His correct path was now coming back to want him. In 1995,
:14:20. > :14:25.he was put in charge of his first murder case, but often from a man,
:14:25. > :14:33.Andrew Forsyth. Two suspects emerged, local drinkers and pity
:14:33. > :14:37.criminals Stephen Johnston and Billy alyssum. They had a fight
:14:37. > :14:40.with Andrew Forsyth. They claimed to have left him alive and well but
:14:40. > :14:45.the police claimed he was left to be done to death. His body was
:14:45. > :14:54.found six days later. The date of the murder was the Vicky, and
:14:54. > :14:59.Detective Munro would already decided to us guilty. Of the Crown
:14:59. > :15:04.planned their case on him having been a murdered on third November
:15:04. > :15:08.1995. They went to a jury on that very point and told the jury that
:15:08. > :15:15.if they thought the deceased was alive after that date, they had to
:15:15. > :15:21.acquit the two accused. If Andrew Forsyth was alive after the third,
:15:21. > :15:25.then Billy Ellison and Stephen Johnson were not guilty? Exact fate.
:15:25. > :15:29.But it emerged this crucial evidence was suppressed and hidden
:15:29. > :15:34.from the Crown and the defence by Richard Munro. At least a dozen
:15:34. > :15:38.with ses said they had seen him alive around Dunfermline between
:15:38. > :15:43.the third aren't ninth November which meant that if true, the two
:15:43. > :15:48.men could not be guilty. A Richard Munro, the investigating officer in
:15:48. > :15:54.this case, he deliberately withheld witness statements of people of
:15:54. > :15:59.good character that said that Andrew Forsyth was still alive. It
:15:59. > :16:02.through the theory at the windows. They decided very quickly that this
:16:02. > :16:10.debt to pay six days earlier and anything that came to question this
:16:10. > :16:16.theory was had no weight. -- this death took place six days earlier.
:16:16. > :16:20.This led to them being acquitted on appeal in 2006. The borders police
:16:20. > :16:28.were instructed to investigate Richard Munro. Two people were sent
:16:28. > :16:33.to jail for rape murder they did not commit. Some people say you
:16:33. > :16:40.should go to prison for this. How do you respond? To Nat, this is
:16:40. > :16:46.what he is facing. The Stephen Johnston a struggle to put his life
:16:46. > :16:51.back on track since he was sent to prison. Why let us first arrested
:16:51. > :16:56.and interviewed by Richard Munro, he informed me after that that he
:16:56. > :17:00.would make sure that it was one of the easiest cases Edinburgh High
:17:00. > :17:07.Court would ever see. A tonight he will spend his first night in
:17:07. > :17:11.prison. Does that even it up for you? Is that how you look at it?
:17:11. > :17:17.Not at all. So some people might find that surprising. Some people
:17:17. > :17:24.might want him punished severely. Yes. I want him punished severely,
:17:24. > :17:34.but it does not give me any, I am not overjoyed by it. It will not
:17:34. > :17:38.change my life overnight. The damage has been done. It is not
:17:38. > :17:43.going to repair itself overnight by a police man being convicted of a
:17:43. > :17:50.crime. Including Richard Munro, six officers were criticised for their
:17:50. > :17:54.conduct and accused of dishonesty by the Appeal Court. Some of them
:17:54. > :17:58.are still working at Fife Constabulary. A spokesman said
:17:58. > :18:02.fundamental changes to policing practices 1995 means the key match
:18:02. > :18:06.rub disclosure of documents raised in this case could no longer a
:18:06. > :18:10.prize in a modern inquiry. The police force will consider the full
:18:10. > :18:14.judgment of the court in detail what is available. The Crown Office
:18:14. > :18:18.told the BBC that the case of Andrew Forsyth is to be reviewed,
:18:18. > :18:22.but for now, the murder remains unsolved and Andrew's killer or
:18:22. > :18:24.killers are still walking free. I'm joined now from Edinburgh by
:18:24. > :18:33.Lothian & Borders Assistant Chief Constable Iain Livingstone, who's
:18:33. > :18:37.currently working with ACPOS on plans for the single police force.
:18:37. > :18:43.I am curious, you were involved in the investigation of this case, of
:18:43. > :18:47.what was the motivation here? Was that it was just this chap that
:18:47. > :18:53.wanted to get this case solved or was there an institutional pressure
:18:53. > :19:00.on him to get results that he perhaps had come to? We will not
:19:00. > :19:03.know what his motivation wires. As the judge said today, he let
:19:03. > :19:08.himself down and he let the criminal-justice system down and
:19:08. > :19:12.the police service down. His actions, such as they were, did
:19:12. > :19:16.mean have that there wasn't a fair trial for Stephen Johnston and
:19:16. > :19:22.Billy alyssum. He has been held to account and the rule of law has
:19:22. > :19:26.ultimately prevailed, but we do not know what the motivation choirs for
:19:26. > :19:31.him. It is clearly the actions of this individual rather than a
:19:31. > :19:36.systemic failure. It is strange that he is the first British police
:19:36. > :19:40.man ever to have been convicted in a case like this. I presume you
:19:40. > :19:45.will not argue it has never happened before, so why have these
:19:45. > :19:50.things are so rare? That is my understanding as well. My
:19:50. > :19:54.reflection on this, that in many ways, it is a credit to the
:19:54. > :19:58.criminal justice system of Scotland, that Richard Munro has been held to
:19:58. > :20:03.account for his actions. There was a thorough investigation carried
:20:03. > :20:10.out by police officers. Even in Scotland, it is an extraordinarily
:20:10. > :20:14.unusual situation. Yes, these cases are very atypical. The point is,
:20:14. > :20:18.nothing has happened before, no police person has been done for out.
:20:18. > :20:24.USAir this they have happened before, in fact the number of
:20:24. > :20:31.missed carriages are very rare in Scotland. -- miscarriages. Where
:20:31. > :20:36.everyone, nobody is above the law and the police service will prevail,
:20:36. > :20:39.has instructed by the Crown, and they will act very rigorously and
:20:39. > :20:44.professionally and old people to account, regardless of who they are,
:20:44. > :20:50.if they do not adhere to the law. You come as a neighbouring force,
:20:50. > :20:53.were asked to investigate his behaviour and you came up with
:20:53. > :20:56.evidence to lead to his conviction. If there is a single police force
:20:56. > :21:01.with no neighbouring police force, what would happen in this
:21:01. > :21:07.situation? Parliament has anticipated this, and in the bill
:21:07. > :21:13.that has been enacted to create a single force, and investigations
:21:13. > :21:16.and review commissioner were created and the staff will
:21:16. > :21:21.investigate serious allegations of criminality like this. A well, they
:21:21. > :21:26.do this themselves or would they recruit officers to do this? That
:21:26. > :21:31.has been formulated. They are looking across the justice system
:21:31. > :21:36.and they can act supervise or her conduct an investigation themselves.
:21:36. > :21:43.At times, they will need to access specialist investigated resources
:21:43. > :21:49.within the Scottish police service, just as existed here. Critically
:21:49. > :21:52.and crucially, it will be under the direction of the crowd. What makes
:21:52. > :21:57.the Scottish criminal justice system unique is the investigators
:21:57. > :22:01.primacy back to the Crown has, and the fact that the police services
:22:01. > :22:04.in a secondary position into the crowd. We act under the Lord
:22:04. > :22:08.Advocate, and we took instructions from the crowd and we acted on
:22:08. > :22:13.their behalf. That will continue when the review commissioner is
:22:13. > :22:20.established. That commissioner will also act to the crown for these
:22:20. > :22:23.matches. As you must know, policemen are famously reluctant to
:22:23. > :22:27.investigate their home. That does not sound like a strong safeguard
:22:27. > :22:34.against this. I would disagree. This is in our urban myth that
:22:34. > :22:38.exists in the media. That is not the case at all. We have very high
:22:38. > :22:41.standards within the Scottish Police Service, very high standards