26/07/2012

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0:00:06 > 0:00:09medals, it probably have come down Tonight on Newsnight Scotland:

0:00:09 > 0:00:15After hearing the sports minister there, is your Geiger counter are

0:00:15 > 0:00:19going zoink at maximum volume? Is Olympo-mania north of the border as

0:00:19 > 0:00:24intense as in London? And his Olympo-scepticism irrational

0:00:24 > 0:00:28reaction to the hype or deeply unpatriotic? And thanks to the

0:00:28 > 0:00:32Jubilee and Olympic celebrations, the Union Jack is everywhere on our

0:00:32 > 0:00:38high street. Will it make Scotland a feel more British?

0:00:38 > 0:00:48But perhaps you feel -- packs you agree with Boris Johnson that the

0:00:48 > 0:00:48

0:00:49 > 0:00:54Giga cancer will make Olympo-name you go zoink. What are the

0:00:54 > 0:00:59qualities of zoinkiness? Big economy is sliding deeper and

0:00:59 > 0:01:03deeper into recession. Is there any room for scepticism or is it deeply

0:01:03 > 0:01:07unpatriotic? Here is Catriona Renton.

0:01:07 > 0:01:14If you do not like sport, you had probably better look away now. In

0:01:14 > 0:01:19fact, you might want to leave the country for the next 2.5 weeks.

0:01:19 > 0:01:24After 69 days of torch relays and back-to-back run-up chit-chat on

0:01:24 > 0:01:29the TV, you might even already be sick of the build up. Or have

0:01:29 > 0:01:34scenes like these that she did you up, momentarily distracted you from

0:01:34 > 0:01:38the mundane, lifted you from the gloomy summer? In a week which has

0:01:38 > 0:01:42brought some of the worst economic news we have had since the Second

0:01:42 > 0:01:47World War. The Prime Minister is hoping the Olympic spirit will make

0:01:47 > 0:01:51us all feel good about ourselves. Of course, this is the time of some

0:01:51 > 0:01:55economic difficulty for the UK but look at what we are capable of

0:01:55 > 0:02:00achieving as a nation, even at a difficult economic time? Are we

0:02:00 > 0:02:07ready? The mayor of London certainly has enormous enthusiasm.

0:02:07 > 0:02:13And I have never seen anything like this in all my life. The excitement

0:02:13 > 0:02:20is growing so much, I think the Geiger counter of Olympo-mania is

0:02:20 > 0:02:27going to go zoink off the scale. seems that everyone who is anyone

0:02:27 > 0:02:35is getting into it. From some of our best-known sporting faces, to

0:02:35 > 0:02:41one of the UK's most famous octogenarians. The royal family and

0:02:41 > 0:02:49huge crowds on the streets of London. And the First Minister has

0:02:49 > 0:02:55sent a video of his own good luck message to Scottish Olympians which

0:02:55 > 0:03:01the Scottish government have captured -- casually dubbed the sq

0:03:01 > 0:03:05go Olympians. By wish London 2012 the best of Scottish luck. So this

0:03:05 > 0:03:10really is the final countdown to what will seem like saturation for

0:03:10 > 0:03:14some, and to sporting heaven for others on the box. Will this cheer

0:03:14 > 0:03:22us up and make us spend more on the associated paraphernalia all will

0:03:22 > 0:03:27you be running for the hills? I am joined now by Dr Greg Philo

0:03:27 > 0:03:37from Glasgow University Media Unit and by the journalist Katie Grant.

0:03:37 > 0:03:47

0:03:47 > 0:03:53I suppose if Scotland are scare Olympians then we... And trip

0:03:53 > 0:03:57Olympians for the Isle of drippy. What is the question? Are we

0:03:57 > 0:04:03looking at happiness here or promoting the the economy? I think

0:04:03 > 0:04:12it does promote the iconic a bit. Than are you excited about this?

0:04:12 > 0:04:17Truth filly, no. To be honest with you, it has not been well organised

0:04:17 > 0:04:21in the sense that it could be a people's Festival. They should have

0:04:21 > 0:04:26by now realised that the great bulk of this is for television so it

0:04:26 > 0:04:29does not matter which city you have got it in. They should have

0:04:29 > 0:04:32disbursed the Games right the way through the country. Had the

0:04:32 > 0:04:36cycling in Manchester or whatever, moved it right the way out through

0:04:36 > 0:04:40the country. The fact that you then have billions of people watching on

0:04:40 > 0:04:46television, really doesn't matter to the people where it is going on.

0:04:46 > 0:04:49But you create a people's festival. To be fair they would say they did

0:04:49 > 0:04:54it by running round the country with the Olympic torch. That is

0:04:54 > 0:04:58pathetic! Why not have the actual games throughout the country.

0:04:58 > 0:05:04of them are. And little bits of the mark, that is right. Are you

0:05:04 > 0:05:09excited? Well, I am trying to be excited. I am not a great sporting

0:05:09 > 0:05:13fan but I do know once it gets going I will certainly watch it. I

0:05:13 > 0:05:19think the build-up has been a bit hysterical. If I hear the word

0:05:19 > 0:05:29amazing once more, I do not know what I will do but we will. Said an

0:05:29 > 0:05:29

0:05:29 > 0:05:331,000 times! We have defined a new word. -- 7,000 times. I do think

0:05:33 > 0:05:38the Olympics has generated, would you like sport or not, has

0:05:38 > 0:05:42generated good feeling. Look at the way the torch was greeted. You may

0:05:42 > 0:05:46not like it but thousands of people turned out in Scotland, England, in

0:05:46 > 0:05:51the pouring rain and terrible weather. I did not go but lots of

0:05:51 > 0:05:54people did go. And they tell the opinion polls that they want to

0:05:54 > 0:05:59watch the Olympics as well. I mean it is pathetic compared to what

0:05:59 > 0:06:06they should have done. They could have really disbursed it and had

0:06:06 > 0:06:11millions of people watching up and down the country. Hasn't Katy got a

0:06:11 > 0:06:18point. Isn't this becoming one of these issues that it is fashionable

0:06:18 > 0:06:26for the chattering classes to be sceptical about it. But in missiles

0:06:26 > 0:06:31on people's routes. The bottom line is most people think it is great.

0:06:31 > 0:06:36will watch the table tennis or beach volleyball. There are things

0:06:36 > 0:06:41which will be nice to look at but my point whizz it is not being done

0:06:41 > 0:06:46in a way which has actually involved the nation -- my point is

0:06:46 > 0:06:50it has not involved the nation. nobody expected the crowds when

0:06:50 > 0:06:53they had run round with the torch. But what if they had dispersed it.

0:06:54 > 0:06:59You could have had all the major centres all with their Olympic

0:06:59 > 0:07:06Games going on. But the Olympics does not work like that. It has to

0:07:06 > 0:07:11be focused on a city. You have some enthusiastic like Boris Johnson,

0:07:11 > 0:07:15who whatever you think of Boris Johnson, has got out there and

0:07:15 > 0:07:20really sold the Olympics and for London, it is a great thing.

0:07:20 > 0:07:25Glasgow will have its turn at the Commonwealth Games. Four cities, it

0:07:25 > 0:07:29is better for the athletes. I do think the Olympic Committee

0:07:29 > 0:07:34something which does leave me a bit cold when the head of the Olympic

0:07:34 > 0:07:37Committee said when he is staying at the Hilton, we have got to stay

0:07:37 > 0:07:42somewhere. That is like me having a Porsche and saying, I have got to

0:07:42 > 0:07:46have a car. We can snipe away at that but I think the generation of

0:07:46 > 0:07:53enthusiasm has been great. I think that the money figures that it will

0:07:53 > 0:07:59supposedly generate are wishful thinking. But you think it could

0:07:59 > 0:08:04provide some sort of economic boost? Any spending money will. It

0:08:04 > 0:08:09is a Keynesian argument that if you bend -- Berry money in the ground

0:08:09 > 0:08:14and let people did it up then you increase. The problem is we have

0:08:15 > 0:08:21already had a large part of it by building the facilities. You still

0:08:21 > 0:08:26stimulate demand and spending. They could have spent it much more

0:08:26 > 0:08:31wisely. The amounts of money that they spent are probably pretty

0:08:31 > 0:08:36small in terms of what is needed to get the British economy going.

0:08:36 > 0:08:41was curious about that. Do you think the economic effect will beat

0:08:41 > 0:08:46that there are thousands and thousands of people coming to the

0:08:46 > 0:08:52UK and they will spend money here. I suppose what the government would

0:08:53 > 0:08:57like to see his it was that plus an effect on the morale of the

0:08:57 > 0:09:01population of that we should rush out and buy something. I think the

0:09:01 > 0:09:05way they have done it will not get back. If you had had it in

0:09:05 > 0:09:10different places, you would have had masses of tourists going to

0:09:10 > 0:09:13different places. They have focused on London, overstretched the

0:09:13 > 0:09:16facilities there so you have warnings saying don't go to London

0:09:17 > 0:09:22because there will be no where to stay and they have had a fall in

0:09:22 > 0:09:25tourist bookings. Don't go away because we will bring you back

0:09:25 > 0:09:30later. The tomorrow night, the man who is

0:09:30 > 0:09:34arguably Scotland's greatest ever Olympian, Sir Chris Hoy, will lead

0:09:34 > 0:09:38the British athletes through the stadium proudly carrying the Union

0:09:38 > 0:09:45Jack. There may not be any political intent but the flag has

0:09:45 > 0:09:49become the symbol of the summer. Might this sense of pride in

0:09:49 > 0:09:55Britain start having an unintended consequence on the future shape of

0:09:55 > 0:10:00the United Kingdom? Seeing a flag you were not quite

0:10:00 > 0:10:06expecting can have all sorts of unpredictable consequences. Indeed,

0:10:06 > 0:10:12this seems to have become a theme of this Scottish summer. At the

0:10:12 > 0:10:20Diamond Jubilee celebrations. The Olympic Torch Relay. And even

0:10:20 > 0:10:24backing Andy Murray at Wimbledon. The strongest visual symbols has

0:10:24 > 0:10:31not been prominent in Scotland for many years. Many companies are

0:10:31 > 0:10:38using the Union Flag in their marketing. People have a problem

0:10:38 > 0:10:41because they thought it was associated with the Empire. The

0:10:41 > 0:10:47Scottish left have more of a problem than the British are left.

0:10:47 > 0:10:52They have all but luggage and then the nature of Unionism and seeing

0:10:52 > 0:10:57the Tory Unionist story narrative as the dominant one. But there is

0:10:57 > 0:11:01no doubt we have seen far more of the flag recently, in a completely

0:11:01 > 0:11:05benign and non- threatening way. Just head for any Scottish High

0:11:05 > 0:11:11Street. I have just been outside doing a spot of shopping. Let's see

0:11:11 > 0:11:14what is in this carrier bag which you will notice has plenty of Union

0:11:14 > 0:11:20flags on it. First of all, I thought I would have a sandwich for

0:11:20 > 0:11:25my lunch. Then for dinner tonight I quite fancied a cottage pie, all

0:11:25 > 0:11:35washed down with a glass of a soft drink. And I am very grateful to my

0:11:35 > 0:11:36

0:11:36 > 0:11:39colleagues and I thought I would Might this positive use of the

0:11:39 > 0:11:43union flag bolster the campaign to keep the Scotland in the UK or help

0:11:43 > 0:11:53finally separate the debate about the best constitutional

0:11:53 > 0:11:58

0:11:58 > 0:12:02arrangements for Scotland from the It's possible with an independent

0:12:02 > 0:12:05Scotland and I believe in an element of Scottishness and

0:12:05 > 0:12:10Britishness. In the last couple of decades, all of us, we have over

0:12:10 > 0:12:13simplified this debate in talking about the Scottishing of Scottish

0:12:13 > 0:12:17identity and culture. There has always been a majority British

0:12:18 > 0:12:23identity in Britain so far. I think that will continue into the

0:12:23 > 0:12:27foreseeable future. The issues on how it's represented? Can they put

0:12:27 > 0:12:31together a progressive modern future of Britain? It's fair to

0:12:31 > 0:12:36presume many of the people responsible for the union flag

0:12:36 > 0:12:40marketing aren't thinking of Scottish politics. It's getting

0:12:40 > 0:12:44harder to exclude Scotland from any UK-wide advertising campaign.

0:12:44 > 0:12:49still possible to treat Scotland as a discreet market that the big

0:12:49 > 0:12:54issue is whether or not it's cost effective. It's easier for big

0:12:54 > 0:12:57buyers in London to buy big campaigns, in terms of targeting

0:12:57 > 0:13:02big populations they want to target as big a population as possible

0:13:02 > 0:13:08because it's cost effective for them to do that. The union flag has

0:13:09 > 0:13:13been fashionable before, if not, perhaps, in Scotland. Remember the

0:13:13 > 0:13:17Cool Britannia craze in the late '90s. If you think flags have no

0:13:17 > 0:13:27real importance in the modern world, well just ask the North Korean

0:13:27 > 0:13:29

0:13:29 > 0:13:31women's football team. We're joined now from London by

0:13:31 > 0:13:37Graham Bartram, Chief Vexillologist at The Flag Institute.

0:13:37 > 0:13:43You are an expert in flags and not in making people upset? That is

0:13:43 > 0:13:47right. Sometimes we do both. Let's get the Koran thing -- Korean thing

0:13:48 > 0:13:53out of the way. It is obvious why that was wrong? Two countries at

0:13:53 > 0:14:00war and you swap their flags. One of the problems is, in the Olympics,

0:14:00 > 0:14:05North Korea and South Korea aren't called North Korea and South Korea.

0:14:05 > 0:14:10It's not so obvious what the difference is when you see it that

0:14:10 > 0:14:15way. They could have looked at one of your catalogues on the internet

0:14:15 > 0:14:21and they would have found out. in the Olympic flag manual.

0:14:21 > 0:14:25right. Are flags really important? I don't just mean about Korea.

0:14:25 > 0:14:29There have been other rows like this. Are they manufactured rows or

0:14:29 > 0:14:35do you think people do really feel deeply about these sort of things?

0:14:35 > 0:14:40People get really upset about this. I mean, imagine if you have just

0:14:40 > 0:14:44won the 100 metres or 200 metres and your National Anthem is playing

0:14:44 > 0:14:50and they raise your flag upside down. It's not really on, is it?

0:14:50 > 0:14:55People do get upset about getting flags wrong. I'm trying to think

0:14:55 > 0:15:03what would happen if someone in Team GB won and they hoisted the

0:15:03 > 0:15:06French flag, apart from initial gasps people would think it's funny,

0:15:06 > 0:15:12wouldn't they? I suspect two countries who aren't at war would

0:15:12 > 0:15:17find it an amazing mistake. The athletes themselves might not be

0:15:17 > 0:15:22quite so amused. The audience might be happy to laugh it off. When you

0:15:22 > 0:15:28have two countries at war you need to be more careful. I'm interested

0:15:28 > 0:15:36in your thoughts on this widespread use. We have seen, not just for the

0:15:36 > 0:15:39Olympics, but for the Jubilee celebrations as well, a number of

0:15:39 > 0:15:43Union Jack every where up this side of the border that is not normally

0:15:43 > 0:15:48on public display. On buildings, in events that communities have

0:15:48 > 0:15:56organised in packaging in shops. Does that surprise you? It does

0:15:56 > 0:16:00slightly. Scotland has, until this year, been fairly sol tire, sort of,

0:16:00 > 0:16:05centred. You don't tend to find many union flags north of Newcastle.

0:16:05 > 0:16:10I see no problem in having a British identity and a Scottish

0:16:10 > 0:16:14identity. I'm a Scot. You know, I have a strong Scottish identity. I

0:16:14 > 0:16:18also have a British identity. I can't see why you can't have both.

0:16:18 > 0:16:23You nailed your colour to the mast there. Thank you very much. Do you

0:16:24 > 0:16:28think this will have an effect on any broader debates about

0:16:28 > 0:16:34referendums? Contingency probably will, yes. It sends a clear message,

0:16:34 > 0:16:40doesn't it, that a big country does better, in the sense, of a small

0:16:40 > 0:16:48country. Does it? In what sense? suppose the UK comes forth in the

0:16:48 > 0:16:51medals table. That is from a huge national effort from... Supported

0:16:51 > 0:16:55by the National Lottery. The comparison is with Rangers football

0:16:55 > 0:16:59club or the Royal Bank of Scotland really. No-one who is in favour of

0:16:59 > 0:17:04independence will vote against it because Scotland wasn't in the

0:17:04 > 0:17:08euros? In the euro football Championship. I don't understand

0:17:08 > 0:17:11the argument? If you are a big country you can sustain shocks much

0:17:11 > 0:17:16better, as in the case of the Royal Bank of Scotland, or you can

0:17:16 > 0:17:21organise a regional policy for sport or for the economy which has

0:17:21 > 0:17:2460 million behind it instead of five million. That makes you

0:17:24 > 0:17:31stronger. Countries of five million don't have a lot to say in the

0:17:31 > 0:17:35world. That is the truth. Have you been surprised by the prevalence of

0:17:35 > 0:17:40Union Jack. They say they do big national marketing campaigns. If

0:17:40 > 0:17:44there were objections to this in every supermarket that you go into

0:17:44 > 0:17:48these days, I'm pretty sure the supermarkets would have changed the

0:17:48 > 0:17:53policy quickly? I think it's been great. I don't think it will have

0:17:53 > 0:17:56any bearing in what happens in 2014 or with the independence debate.

0:17:56 > 0:18:00People separate out sport from everything else. People have been

0:18:00 > 0:18:04happy this year, in this miserable weather, to get behind things that

0:18:04 > 0:18:07seem positive. This year it happens to be UK-wide things. The Jubilee

0:18:07 > 0:18:11and the Olympics. I think people have lifted themselves up and

0:18:11 > 0:18:17thought, we will get behind it. Scots do get behind, you know, UK

0:18:17 > 0:18:22things. That is what we do. I think it's been great to see. As for it

0:18:22 > 0:18:27having, sort of, bigger political implications I don't think it lfplt

0:18:27 > 0:18:34the Olympics will be gone in a forth night. You were talking about

0:18:35 > 0:18:39the big country thing. Do you think that Union Jackish will have any

0:18:39 > 0:18:43effect at all? I do, not just the pictures of the Union Jack, the

0:18:43 > 0:18:47sense of it being a national effort and that a big country that is

0:18:47 > 0:18:52united does very well. I think that makes a difference in people's

0:18:52 > 0:18:58minds. Yeah, I do. I think it does. You saw that the last time around.

0:18:58 > 0:19:01When the cyclists did well and Chris Hoy was talking about how

0:19:01 > 0:19:04brilliant it was working in Manchester. That does make a

0:19:04 > 0:19:08difference. Everyone will have forgot been this in a couple of

0:19:08 > 0:19:13year's time? Not necessarily. I think it carries over with a sense.

0:19:13 > 0:19:17There is a strong sense in Scotland that it is one country. That

0:19:17 > 0:19:21underneath all the... I think you find that amongst a lot of people.

0:19:21 > 0:19:25That Britain is one country? Britain is one country stkpwhrufplt

0:19:25 > 0:19:29think, no. You think... I think people will forget. I think they

0:19:29 > 0:19:33will go back to thinking just like they did before. It might have a

0:19:33 > 0:19:37tiny effect, I don't really think that people are going to think of

0:19:37 > 0:19:41the Olympic Games and the Union Jack when they think of the debate

0:19:41 > 0:19:49on Scottish independence. We will have to leave it there. Thank you

0:19:49 > 0:19:59have to leave it there. Thank you very much. The front pages : The

0:19:59 > 0:20:08

0:20:08 > 0:20:18The Guardian: That is all we have time for this week. We are back

0:20:18 > 0:20:20

0:20:20 > 0:20:23again on Monday, until then, good Hello, the Olympic Park looked

0:20:23 > 0:20:28amazing in the sunshine this week, that is set to change on Friday. A

0:20:28 > 0:20:34risk of showers pushing in across the south-east of England. Showers

0:20:34 > 0:20:40to the north-west of Scotland. Many places will be dry with sunshine.

0:20:40 > 0:20:45Temperatures across northern areas struggling, 21 degrees in Yorkshire.

0:20:45 > 0:20:52In the south, 23 degrees in London as opposed to the 30 we saw a

0:20:52 > 0:20:57couple of day's ago. Sunshine coming through to the west of

0:20:57 > 0:21:02England. On the north coast it will be cooler. That is the case across

0:21:02 > 0:21:06Wales. A fine afternoon with patchy cloud and sunshine. You will have

0:21:06 > 0:21:11to dodge the showers in Northern Ireland being pushed in by the wind.

0:21:11 > 0:21:18The showers will merge to give longer spells of rain across north-

0:21:18 > 0:21:23west Scotland particularly to the north of the Great Glenn. On Friday

0:21:23 > 0:21:3016 in Inverness. On Saturday showers will become more widespread.

0:21:30 > 0:21:34Further south a lot lower. Bristol going from 24 on Friday to 19 on

0:21:34 > 0:21:38Saturday. The bulk of England and Wales having a dry day on Saturday.