07/08/2012

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:00:11. > :00:15.area around them reduces. We are out of time.

:00:15. > :00:22.Unease now Scotland tonight: a house of Commons committee says

:00:23. > :00:28.that the legal authority for a referendum must end with Miss --

:00:28. > :00:34.and must rest with Westminster. But cant MPs change the law if they

:00:34. > :00:40.want? And exam results are sinking in. Can we be sure that further are

:00:40. > :00:42.higher education is necessarily the best step for everyone?

:00:42. > :00:47.The house of Commons Scottish Affairs Select Committee has

:00:47. > :00:50.published a report suggesting that there is overwhelming evidence that

:00:50. > :00:57.holding an independence referendum would be beyond the current powers

:00:57. > :01:05.of a Scottish parliament. Any attempt, they say, would end in

:01:05. > :01:13.legal wrangling through the courts. A special order, a section 30

:01:13. > :01:22.notice could be issued. I was beat the committee's chairman,

:01:22. > :01:26.Ian Davidson MP. But Andrew Tickell also told us that there was no

:01:26. > :01:29.argument that it would be legal for her Holyrood to hold a referendum.

:01:30. > :01:39.There is a lack of case law in terms of the constitution which

:01:40. > :01:43.

:01:43. > :01:47.makes it clear that the powers are either out with -- are bedecked

:01:47. > :01:51.with are in it. What the Scotland Act does and says it is that

:01:51. > :02:01.Holyrood has power over everything that is not reserved to Westminster,

:02:01. > :02:08.

:02:08. > :02:17.and every argument against this is that it is absolutely clear. It is

:02:17. > :02:21.by no means clear -- as as clear as he claims. There is the persuasive

:02:21. > :02:26.argument that it is contrary to the Parliament Act to have fun

:02:26. > :02:30.referendum on independence. I am joined by Ian Davidson, who

:02:30. > :02:35.chairs their house of Commons Scottish Affairs Select Committee.

:02:35. > :02:40.It is a fact legally that there is no lock -- knock-down argument on

:02:40. > :02:46.either side and you could lose this in court? The overwhelming balance

:02:46. > :02:50.of legal opinion that we received was that it is absolutely clear

:02:50. > :02:54.that the responsibility for the constitution, the relationship

:02:54. > :02:58.between Scotland and England, lies with Westminster. That was quite

:02:58. > :03:03.specifically in Scotland that it was agreed by the Scottish people

:03:03. > :03:07.in the referendum in 1997. I do understand of course that it UK

:03:07. > :03:13.lawyer's enough, they will argue a contrary case. No lawyer that we

:03:13. > :03:16.have come across a tall says that the Scottish Government has the

:03:16. > :03:21.power to conduct a referendum on their own. The most that they will

:03:21. > :03:26.say is that it is an arguable case, as you Speaker there said, which

:03:26. > :03:30.means that it would end up being disputed in court. That is quite an

:03:30. > :03:35.astonishing proposition to say that a lawyer's to are engaging and get

:03:35. > :03:40.an alternative viewpoint I doing it because if you pay at lawyer enough

:03:40. > :03:45.they will give you an alternative viewpoint. If you hire a lawyer to

:03:45. > :03:52.fight the case for you, he will fight that case. That is the point.

:03:52. > :03:55.The point is that there is no case law in this. You have eminent

:03:55. > :04:00.lawyers both saying that actually this could go the other way,

:04:00. > :04:04.because we do not have the case law on this. The point is... None of

:04:04. > :04:12.them say that it would not end up in court if the Scottish government

:04:12. > :04:17.tried to do it on its own. That is the point. The point is whether you

:04:17. > :04:22.win or lose in court. No, it is not. The point is that we want to have a

:04:22. > :04:26.speedy referendum. My side want to get this resolved, we want to have

:04:26. > :04:29.a referendum, because we think we're going to win quite frankly.

:04:30. > :04:34.We believe that having an agreement between Westminster and Scotland

:04:34. > :04:39.through a section 30 notice, where there is no dispute about the

:04:39. > :04:44.legality, is by far the best way forward. If you want that, been

:04:44. > :04:54.legally, there is nothing to stop you tomorrow, putting in up to

:04:54. > :04:55.

:04:55. > :05:01.process the section 30 permission. But will he do that? Of course.

:05:01. > :05:06.Before you explain that, you must as separate out the wall back,

:05:06. > :05:13.which you could do. You could get their section 30 order through it

:05:13. > :05:17.any point. Or you could attach conditions, and that political

:05:17. > :05:21.decision as were the problem lies legally. Instead of going ahead

:05:21. > :05:28.with a legal solution, the attached conditions to it, which is a

:05:28. > :05:32.political solution. I understand it Newsnight Scotland's position is

:05:32. > :05:38.that the power should be given to the people. I cannot let to

:05:38. > :05:42.continue. That is a ludicrous proposition. And I'm about to

:05:42. > :05:47.answer you... I am asking you perfectly reasonable question that

:05:47. > :05:53.I am entitled Ask. Of course, and I am entitled to answer. You are

:05:53. > :05:56.suggesting that time predicated my question on a preconception...

:05:56. > :06:01.is a general political view. That Newsnight Scotland is biased in

:06:01. > :06:05.favour of the Scottish Parliament handling all these issues

:06:05. > :06:12.themselves. Our position is not that. Our position is that

:06:12. > :06:17.Westminster had been given powers to deal with that Mathur -- to deal

:06:17. > :06:21.with the matter of the Scottish referendum. Our legitimacy comes

:06:21. > :06:29.from the referendum. We then have legitimacy to decide how these

:06:29. > :06:39.matters should be dealt with. We then have power if we wish to

:06:39. > :06:40.

:06:40. > :06:44.handed over to Scotland. But we choose not to do so. Before we

:06:44. > :06:48.continue, it perhaps might be appropriate at this stage if you

:06:48. > :06:55.would like to apologise to me for suggesting that I have come into

:06:55. > :06:59.this interview in any way biased against your argument Party won

:06:59. > :07:04.political party are another. No one on this programme works in this way

:07:04. > :07:10.and it is offensive that to suggest that. I have already complained

:07:10. > :07:14.about the way in which Newsnight Scotland begins. I think you are

:07:14. > :07:20.clearly biased against in the Unionist parties and if that causes

:07:20. > :07:25.you concern any need to realise that you are not above the fray. If

:07:25. > :07:29.you want to stand for election do so, otherwise you should be nor

:07:29. > :07:33.neutral. If I absolutely reject what you say there, and there is

:07:33. > :07:39.plenty of evidence to refute that. Are you saying that you drive your

:07:39. > :07:43.mandate from the 1997 referendum? Let us then say that people going

:07:43. > :07:52.and the 1997 referendum had undermined whether a future

:07:52. > :08:00.referendum conducted by their Holyrood Parliament would relate to

:08:00. > :08:05.this, how late it possibly relate this? In 1997 there were a whole

:08:05. > :08:08.number of things being proposed. One of which was the ongoing

:08:08. > :08:12.relationship between Scotland and England, are Scotland and the rest

:08:12. > :08:17.of the United Kingdom, and the responsibility for constitutional

:08:17. > :08:22.matters. It was quite clear, because it was debated at the time,

:08:22. > :08:26.that it should lie at Westminster. That was what was in the Scotland

:08:26. > :08:33.Act and that is what people voted for in the referendum. Moral

:08:33. > :08:37.authority in this matter does lie with Westminster. The chair of the

:08:37. > :08:47.Scottish constitutional Convention is writing that if the Unionists

:08:47. > :08:49.

:08:49. > :08:54.claimed that -- are in effect saying that only way that

:08:54. > :08:58.Scotland's people can be sovereign is a through independence. That is

:08:58. > :09:01.the logical conclusion of their position. It is not. My position

:09:01. > :09:05.and the committee's agreement is that we want to see an agreement on

:09:05. > :09:09.how the referendum should pull forward, because we believe that it

:09:09. > :09:12.is in Scotland's interest to have this resolved as quickly as

:09:12. > :09:18.possible. We want to have all the issues hope fully debated and

:09:18. > :09:22.agreed between the two parliaments. But if it is not possible to reach

:09:22. > :09:27.an agreement in the responsibility does lie with Westminster. We're

:09:27. > :09:37.worried that those who face defeat in the referendum will try to spin

:09:37. > :09:37.

:09:37. > :09:40.this out, either through legal Now, about 160,000 people received

:09:40. > :09:43.their exam results today, which means the best part of million of

:09:43. > :09:46.us have been on tenterhooks on behalf of friends or family

:09:46. > :09:49.directly affected. I hope it went well for you, but whether it did or

:09:49. > :09:52.didn't, it's time to be considering whether the next obvious step,

:09:52. > :09:55.perhaps into higher education, is necessarily the best thing for you

:09:55. > :09:58.or yours. In a moment I'll be speaking to a university leader

:09:58. > :10:07.with a unique point of view on all this, but first, Catriona Renton

:10:07. > :10:11.reports. Right, folks, in honour of the

:10:11. > :10:18.Olympics we will open the envelopes together. I will do a count down.

:10:18. > :10:22.Three, two, one. Red! Is a memory that still fills the

:10:22. > :10:29.many of us with dread, the trepidation of opening the big

:10:29. > :10:33.envelope. It could be an e-mail or text nowadays. Congratulations.

:10:33. > :10:39.Pupils at in the Clyde academy went through it in front of the

:10:39. > :10:45.television cameras. This means I can say what I want this year and

:10:45. > :10:55.it means I will have a basis to get a good job. It is all right for me.

:10:55. > :10:57.

:10:57. > :11:01.I want to go for mechanics after- school so I think I have done well

:11:01. > :11:07.enough. It was like having no life. I went home and I constantly

:11:07. > :11:17.studied. I did my homework. To many tears and tantrums but it was so

:11:17. > :11:21.were fit, I am so proud of her. She is a star.

:11:21. > :11:29.160,000 students in Scotland got their exam results today. Pass

:11:29. > :11:37.rates are up again. Standard Grades are not 0.4% on last year. Highers

:11:37. > :11:45.are up 1.8% to 76.9%. That is up 7% in the last 10 years. Advanced

:11:45. > :11:50.tyres are also up. The Education Secretary rejected suggestions that

:11:50. > :11:55.the exams are not hard enough. answer is tried exams yourself. I

:11:55. > :11:59.could not pass a lot of these exams myself. I could not pass many of

:11:59. > :12:04.them. I suspect that is true of you and many of us. This is hard work

:12:04. > :12:08.which we should be glad of. Within the figures, some subjects have

:12:08. > :12:13.suffered a fall in pass rates and others have suffered a rise. That

:12:13. > :12:17.indicates that some subjects have years in which people pass and a

:12:17. > :12:24.years in which people find it more difficult. What we are seeing is

:12:24. > :12:27.good work in Scotland's schools. these students in Kilmarnock know

:12:27. > :12:33.today is about celebrating their achievements. Where do these exams

:12:33. > :12:40.really lead? Getting a job is not that easy.

:12:40. > :12:46.Youth unemployment has reached an all-time high, almost one-quarter

:12:46. > :12:51.are out of work. Statistically if you want to get a job, it still

:12:51. > :12:54.appears to be the right thing to do to get a degree. 90% of graduates

:12:54. > :13:01.that left university last year are either in paid employment or

:13:01. > :13:04.further studies. Only 7% are assumed to be unemployed. When you

:13:04. > :13:08.drill down deeper into those statistics, of those working,

:13:08. > :13:12.around one quarter are only doing part-time hours and a significant

:13:12. > :13:15.proportion are doing jobs that traditionally would not be

:13:15. > :13:20.considered to be graduate jobs. This young entrepreneurs started up

:13:20. > :13:27.his own business when he was 13 and he has now 22. He says higher

:13:27. > :13:31.education is not the answer for everyone. Any body that once to run

:13:31. > :13:35.their own business themselves, doing it is better than anything

:13:35. > :13:40.else. We all make mistakes but they are the same mistakes were the have

:13:40. > :13:44.the education or not. University does not know how to teach you how

:13:44. > :13:48.to handle a customer or how to sell, these are skills you have to learn

:13:48. > :13:51.on the job. University is great if you want to be a specialist in a

:13:51. > :13:57.particular field but if you want to go out and be an entrepreneur,

:13:58. > :14:01.there is not a lot you can study. If you're not ready to start your

:14:01. > :14:05.business then education is great but if you were at this stage I was

:14:05. > :14:10.that way you want to get out and do it, there is no benefit to it at

:14:10. > :14:16.all. Perhaps that is just it, one size does not fit all. The Scottish

:14:17. > :14:21.government has guaranteed every 16 to 19-year-old can get a place in

:14:21. > :14:26.training and there is a helpline to give them a hand.

:14:26. > :14:34.The Open University in Scotland has seen a rise of almost 50% in the

:14:34. > :14:37.last five years in applications from students under 25. I'm joined

:14:37. > :14:41.now by Dr James Miller, who's director of the OU in Scotland.

:14:41. > :14:45.What do you think is behind the figures of the under 25 increase?

:14:45. > :14:50.There is a multitude of factors contributing to this. Undoubtedly

:14:50. > :14:55.there is the increasing competition in campers based universities which

:14:55. > :15:00.is one of the factors. More and more young people are looking at

:15:00. > :15:03.the opportunity of going into employment and combining that with

:15:03. > :15:08.higher education study, through distance learning opportunities

:15:08. > :15:15.like those at the Open University. We have seen that dramatic increase

:15:15. > :15:19.over the past five years. Has what people want to study the change?

:15:19. > :15:22.What is attracting people at the moment? Because of the flexibility

:15:22. > :15:29.of the courses that are offered by the Open University, it offers a

:15:29. > :15:35.wider choice. Over the years, these have remained broadly the same. As

:15:35. > :15:41.well as offering the discipline, specific content knowledge, steady

:15:41. > :15:45.inflexibly part-time also gives additional benefits to students, so

:15:45. > :15:50.they can demonstrate to employers their resilience, timekeeping, the

:15:50. > :15:55.ability to apply their learning in real life, as opposed to studying

:15:55. > :16:02.and then moving into employment at a later date. Clearly this works.

:16:02. > :16:05.The Open University has returned the highest levels of student

:16:05. > :16:09.satisfaction in the National Student Survey since it started in

:16:09. > :16:13.2005. No other university has been able to achieve that. A what a

:16:13. > :16:18.drop-out rates like? He it is very difficult to identify drop-out

:16:18. > :16:21.rates because of the way in which people learn. Some people can learn

:16:21. > :16:26.over three years or more and some will take 12 years to complete a

:16:26. > :16:30.degree. It is as flexible as it needs to be. You think that is a

:16:30. > :16:33.strength of the system? It is because it allows students to adapt

:16:33. > :16:39.their steady to their lifestyle which might be about employment but

:16:39. > :16:43.it might be about other things. We have a number of students who are

:16:43. > :16:47.currently competing in the Olympics and the Paralympics to have

:16:47. > :16:51.combined that lifestyle with their study. If depending on the subject,

:16:51. > :16:55.how valuable -- how valuable is higher education? I think it is

:16:55. > :17:00.very valuable. What employers are looking for is very many of the

:17:00. > :17:05.graduate qualities that higher education produces. Of course that

:17:05. > :17:11.can be done in a variety of ways. The piece was mentioning their that

:17:11. > :17:15.we have a very diverse sector which produces a very diverse set of

:17:15. > :17:19.graduates which is good for the economy and it is good for Scotland.

:17:19. > :17:23.Do you think you have an advantage where we have concerns about

:17:23. > :17:26.graduates coming out and being overtaken by subsequent graduates

:17:26. > :17:33.and the employers will one the ones closest to graduation, do you have

:17:33. > :17:40.more flexibility in that system? Absolutely, they can adapt their

:17:40. > :17:42.subject choices as well. It is about Rees killing. Thank you very

:17:42. > :17:46.much. Now a quick look at tomorrow's

:17:46. > :17:51.front pages. So Chris Hoy is everywhere. The

:17:51. > :17:58.Daily Mail is liaising with Chris Hoy triumphing again. He is

:17:58. > :18:02.Britain's greatest ever Olympian. He is also on the front page of the

:18:02. > :18:07.Scotsman. The Guardian also have Britain's golden games, the biggest

:18:07. > :18:12.gold medal haul since 19 oh wait. The Herald is going its own way

:18:12. > :18:17.with the sports tycoon Mike Ashley who is buying a stake in Rangers.

:18:17. > :18:19.That's all from me. If you want to see the programme again it's on the