:00:06. > :00:12.at Work. We will have to leave it there. Thank you.
:00:12. > :00:15.Tonight on Newsnight Scotland: Who should pay for our railways? A
:00:15. > :00:18.4% rise in tickets will not be particularly welcome to travellers,
:00:18. > :00:21.but should taxpayers be paying so much of the bill?
:00:21. > :00:24.And the bids are in for Scotland's two local television channels for
:00:24. > :00:28.Glasgow and Edinburgh. Who will watch these channels and what are
:00:28. > :00:31.they for? Good evening. We may have got off
:00:31. > :00:33.more lightly than travellers in England, but fare rises of 4% will
:00:33. > :00:37.be hard to take for commuters facing wage freezes. The government
:00:37. > :00:40.here decided to cap the fare rises and shoulder more of the costs of
:00:40. > :00:43.the rail network. Is it the right decision to subsidise largely
:00:43. > :00:45.middle-class rail users with taxpayers' money? We'll discuss
:00:45. > :00:55.that with the transport minister in a moment. First, Laura Bicker
:00:55. > :00:56.
:00:56. > :01:01.You could be forgiven for thinking that at will railways are now a
:01:01. > :01:06.rich man's toy. Fares are on the up and if you are the regular
:01:06. > :01:11.traveller, the extra costs could add up to hundreds of pounds a year.
:01:11. > :01:16.In Scotland, rises will be capped at 1%, but with inflation, ticket
:01:16. > :01:23.prices will increase by 4.2 %. Still less than England where
:01:23. > :01:30.prices will go up by 6.2 %. Fares up the border are subsidised by the
:01:30. > :01:36.government by up to 75 %. So what are we paying for? Someone needs to
:01:36. > :01:40.paid to maintain and improve our rail network. Should it be
:01:40. > :01:43.passengers of government? The government wants us to take the
:01:43. > :01:49.train and leave the car at home because it is more environmentally
:01:49. > :01:52.friendly, but they need to give her Braille franchisees money to
:01:52. > :01:59.improve the network. That is why they have reached this compromise.
:01:59. > :02:03.And the sum rail fares will be increased. The cost of the season
:02:03. > :02:09.ticket on the busy shuttle service between Edinburgh and Glasgow will
:02:09. > :02:13.not be affected. Passengers will not be told yet how prices will
:02:13. > :02:19.change on their specific routes, but those who travel across the
:02:19. > :02:23.border will be subject to the Higher English writers. There have
:02:23. > :02:31.been improvements in the roads and motorists are not paying for it.
:02:31. > :02:37.Why should rail travellers be punished? Meanwhile in Glasgow, the
:02:37. > :02:42.RMT union staged protests outside Central Station, worried that
:02:42. > :02:46.higher fares are just a way for companies to make higher profits.
:02:46. > :02:49.They are also worried about the possible change of ownership to the
:02:49. > :02:51.West Coast main line. In a moment I'll speak to the
:02:51. > :02:56.Transport Minister Keith Brown, but first the leader of the Scottish
:02:56. > :03:00.Greens Patrick Harvie is here. What is your problem with this?
:03:00. > :03:10.problem with this is that it is not just a one-off increase, it is the
:03:10. > :03:12.
:03:12. > :03:17.latest in a relentless series of increases in rail travel. We have
:03:17. > :03:22.to recognise we have some of the most expensive rail services in the
:03:22. > :03:28.world and that is why many people are priced out of using that option.
:03:29. > :03:35.People have been giving me feedback online today and they say they have
:03:35. > :03:39.already decided to go back to their car because prices are so high. It
:03:39. > :03:49.is �100 more to get a year's season ticket between Glasgow and
:03:49. > :03:55.Edinburgh to get a season ticket for the entire German rail network.
:03:55. > :03:59.Given where we are, if the government had decided not to put
:03:59. > :04:03.prices up by inflation or more, it would have had to have found the
:04:03. > :04:10.money from somewhere. What is your suggestion for where they should
:04:10. > :04:15.find that money? It goes beyond this increased. We need a systemic
:04:16. > :04:22.change. We need at replacing the current franchise and also looking
:04:22. > :04:27.at how long it will be before we can change the law in Scotland to
:04:27. > :04:31.allow a public sector operator. We need to look at the option of
:04:32. > :04:41.taking whale back into public ownership and rail and bosses need
:04:42. > :04:42.
:04:42. > :04:49.to be seen as public services and not market commodities. But they
:04:49. > :04:56.are. Three-quarters of a rail ticket in Scotland are subsidised.
:04:56. > :05:00.Why should taxpayers who don't use the railway have to pay? It is
:05:00. > :05:07.going in the wrong direction. Just as with the UK, we are seeing the
:05:07. > :05:12.burden shifted onto ticket prices. In England, 60 % is paid by the
:05:12. > :05:17.people who buy the tickets and in Scotland it is 25 %. That is
:05:17. > :05:27.something we should be proud of, but we will not achieve the quality
:05:27. > :05:33.
:05:33. > :05:37.and a affordability -- affordability that we need. The
:05:37. > :05:43.market will only deliver for the people who can afford to pay it. It
:05:44. > :05:53.will not deliver for society as a whole. There is a common good to be
:05:53. > :05:57.gained from a good public trust or system. Keith Brown de Transport
:05:57. > :06:07.Minister is here. Is it a good policy to nationalise the railways?
:06:07. > :06:08.
:06:08. > :06:13.It is not. We can't even change it on a franchise arrangement. Under
:06:13. > :06:20.the independent Scotland agreement, would it be possible. We have
:06:20. > :06:27.asked... Hahnermann it, you would not be up to do their if Scotland
:06:27. > :06:34.were at independent? With the European regulations, you could not
:06:34. > :06:39.nationalised the railway in the way it was nationalised before. Even
:06:39. > :06:47.with that franchises, it is an expensive way to put your services.
:06:47. > :06:55.We have asked for changes, but they had been refused a -- have been
:06:55. > :07:05.refused. Soap, Glasgow and Edinburgh ticket travel is
:07:05. > :07:12.
:07:12. > :07:20.expensive? They will not go up. What about other fares. -- fares?
:07:20. > :07:30.It is up to beat commercial operator. We are talking about
:07:30. > :07:30.
:07:30. > :07:35.introducing reductions in affairs. We have done that in Stranraer.
:07:35. > :07:43.are telling me that on the busiest line in Scotland, you have no
:07:44. > :07:49.control over prices? The peak tickets are regulated, the offbeat
:07:49. > :07:58.ones aren't. You have no control over the fuel increase, yet you
:07:58. > :08:08.could have decided not to port rail fares up, which you do have control
:08:08. > :08:12.
:08:12. > :08:22.over. If we can encourage more people to use services, thereby
:08:22. > :08:23.
:08:24. > :08:27.increasing the revenue, we can bring down the prices. But why do
:08:27. > :08:33.you welcome changes that reduced the costs for motorists and then
:08:33. > :08:41.when you can, impose price increases on people who use the
:08:41. > :08:51.railway? We have no control over inflation. Why don't you use CPI it
:08:51. > :08:52.
:08:53. > :09:02.rather than RPI? It is the UK's Government's decision to use that.
:09:02. > :09:12.But you are still proud that prices are going up by a lesser amount
:09:12. > :09:21.
:09:21. > :09:26.So the likelihood is you're not putting up prices by less than the
:09:26. > :09:32.government is? Yes, we are. But if they don't do that... But they are
:09:32. > :09:39.doing that this year. The latest they have said is it is going up by
:09:39. > :09:44.6.2%. But if they can find savings, as they did last year, to not put
:09:44. > :09:47.prices up so much, because of the state of the economy, and the
:09:47. > :09:53.burden on season-ticket holders, why can you not find money to do
:09:53. > :09:59.the same a? We have announced it will be 6.2%, it will be 4.2% next
:09:59. > :10:05.year... It is unusual for them, they have changed it, they have
:10:05. > :10:11.gone back to RPI plus three. It was supposed to be, by George can --
:10:11. > :10:15.George Osborne council did. The point is, people who were stuck by
:10:15. > :10:21.what you are announced, there is no way you can try and save money.
:10:21. > :10:26.First of all, we have to trouble -- cover inflation, otherwise we start
:10:26. > :10:32.to have less money for railways. The other 1% helps us invest in the
:10:32. > :10:38.railways. It looks like a virgin is going to lose the contract for the
:10:38. > :10:42.West Coast railway. Do you have a view on that? Bergin provided a
:10:42. > :10:47.very good service, but we're not involved in that franchise, we will
:10:47. > :10:49.have to wait and see. Thank you. Is British television about to see a
:10:49. > :10:52.radical change? Well perhaps, after a number of groups expressed an
:10:52. > :10:55.interest in running local television services across the UK -
:10:55. > :10:58.including in Glasgow and Edinburgh. It's Jeremy Hunt's big idea - the
:10:58. > :11:01.Culture Secretary saying it's just the thing to breathe new life into
:11:01. > :11:04.local democracy. We'll look at whether the whole thing has any
:11:04. > :11:13.chance of working in a moment - but first here's our local government
:11:13. > :11:22.correspondent Jamie McIvor. It will be local TV news, but not
:11:22. > :11:31.as we have known it. Local news for cities or communities, not large TV
:11:31. > :11:35.regions. Perhaps a bit like this service in Edinburgh. For the first
:11:35. > :11:39.time, we have reduced the cost of running a local TV station to below
:11:39. > :11:47.the cost of running a local newspaper. So places to have local
:11:47. > :11:52.newspapers should be able to afford a local TV service as well. And he
:11:52. > :11:59.certainly has drummed up interest. There are four applications for the
:11:59. > :12:05.Glasgow -- licence, another four for Edinburgh. One of the bids
:12:05. > :12:12.involves a Stevie. We are happy there are four bidders, but I'm
:12:12. > :12:18.sceptical of the incoming from organised -- existing stations, or
:12:18. > :12:22.consortia from across the UK. Local control of local broadcasting is
:12:22. > :12:28.unlikely to be achieved if it is in the hands of a consortium based
:12:28. > :12:32.across at the Hall of the UK. is scepticism about whether local
:12:32. > :12:36.TV will prove commercially viable. Once the stations are up and
:12:37. > :12:40.running they would be to on their keep from advertising or other
:12:41. > :12:46.commercial income. They could be heading away, with a high Channel
:12:46. > :12:53.number on Freeview. But it would once have something approaching
:12:53. > :12:57.viable wide-ranging local TV, then let it go? Otherwise known as ITV,
:12:57. > :13:03.in the old days. When Scotland had three separate stations, each
:13:03. > :13:06.producing far more venues. The big regional companies in England
:13:06. > :13:12.served viewers in their own theories, then championed them to
:13:12. > :13:15.the rest of the UK. Ofcom will now have to decide between the
:13:15. > :13:21.competing applicants for Glasgow and Edinburgh. The winners should
:13:21. > :13:25.be known in the autumn and they could be on the air next year.
:13:25. > :13:30.I am joined by the professor of cultural policy in class the
:13:30. > :13:36.university. Can this work? There a rock of questions about whether it
:13:36. > :13:40.can work. It will get a �40 billion subsidy to kick it off in the first
:13:40. > :13:44.instance. It is coming straight out of the TV licence fee, so when
:13:44. > :13:50.Jeremy Hunt had his brave idea, he thought this could be commercially
:13:50. > :13:54.viable. It is actually going to start with a public subsidy. So the
:13:54. > :13:57.question is whether the business models can be made to work, for
:13:57. > :14:05.sustainability and for the long term, people need to have deep
:14:05. > :14:10.pockets. It is really quite problematic. But clearly, there
:14:10. > :14:15.are... STV are involved here, but there are some national media
:14:15. > :14:20.consortia in London, the London Evening Standard? They think they
:14:20. > :14:25.can make some money out of this? Yes, they clearly do. And maybe
:14:25. > :14:29.they can. We will have to wait and see. When Scotland was initially
:14:29. > :14:35.looked at in terms of where the stations might go, Glasgow was seen
:14:35. > :14:39.as the only viable area initially. Edinburgh was a later addition. Am
:14:39. > :14:44.I not right in thinking that this kind of thing is very big in
:14:44. > :14:49.America? You yes, Jeremy Hunt basically said that if they can
:14:49. > :14:54.have it in Birmingham, Alabama, why can we not have it in Birmingham,
:14:54. > :14:58.UK? But the market place is actually quite different there, and
:14:58. > :15:04.the way television has evolved there is different. So it will have
:15:04. > :15:07.to force its way into quite a crowded market place in the UK,
:15:08. > :15:12.where we are right in a recession as well, which is not exactly the
:15:12. > :15:18.best time to try and find funding. Apart from the initial funding,
:15:18. > :15:23.they will have to finance themselves how? By advertising or
:15:23. > :15:28.other means. The question that Dave Rushton raised about local control
:15:28. > :15:34.is an apt one. It seems to have been constructed for those with
:15:34. > :15:38.deep pockets to get into the market place, I think. So there is no
:15:38. > :15:42.requirement, and no controls in place, which means that local
:15:42. > :15:46.companies are local people running these things? Well, the bids are in,
:15:46. > :15:51.and we will have to see how the decisions are made. That is quite
:15:51. > :15:55.an open question. But it is not restricted to local interests of by
:15:55. > :15:59.any means. Is there some idea of making television in a different
:15:59. > :16:03.way, or simply that it is more local? I think the idea is that
:16:03. > :16:11.there would be some kind of energising of local communities
:16:11. > :16:15.through television, certainly his initial idea was straight out of
:16:15. > :16:21."big society" thinking, and a social cohesion concept. Whether
:16:21. > :16:24.that is actually going to be the way things pan out is another one.
:16:24. > :16:28.All sorts of organisations including the BBC, have messed
:16:28. > :16:31.about with some of this stuff before. It has never really taken
:16:31. > :16:36.off, has it? I think it is questionable whether there is a
:16:36. > :16:42.demand for it. We will wait and see, because once this gets launched,
:16:42. > :16:49.presumably at the start of 2013 or thereabouts, the market place will
:16:49. > :16:59.be the place it is tested. Thank you. Time for a quick look at
:16:59. > :17:01.
:17:01. > :17:11.There is a picture of the couple who one the lottery on the front
:17:11. > :17:41.
:17:41. > :17:49.After a dry start, it will turn increasingly wet from the south-
:17:49. > :17:54.west, some heavy rain and strong winds as well. Some heavy rain
:17:54. > :17:58.slicing through the Midlands, to what East Anglia and the south-east.
:17:58. > :18:03.Maybe a roll of thunder. It will not rain all day long, we will get
:18:03. > :18:09.some afternoon sunshine in the West Country and Devon and Cornwall.
:18:09. > :18:12.Temperatures doing pretty well in the sunshine. Some very wet weather
:18:12. > :18:18.for parts of Wales and Northern Ireland, Met Office warnings have
:18:18. > :18:22.been issued for an inch or so of rain, more than that in some places.
:18:22. > :18:28.Nasty conditions for the time of year. Further north across Scotland,
:18:28. > :18:32.for much of the day it will be dry. Looking further ahead, it stays
:18:32. > :18:38.pretty disturbed through Thursday, some blustery showers in the West,
:18:38. > :18:41.but further east, a bright -- plenty of bright and breezy weather,
:18:41. > :18:49.which is good news for the Test match which starts at Lord's on