:00:02. > :00:12.more holistic effort to deal with all of these issues, that is my
:00:12. > :00:14.
:00:14. > :00:16.question? Thank you very much. Tonight on Newsnight Scotland:
:00:16. > :00:19.Shuffling the pack. Yesterday it was David Cameron, today Alex
:00:19. > :00:21.Salmond changed his team, ready for the independence campaign. We'll
:00:21. > :00:24.have the first interview with the newly minted Minister for
:00:24. > :00:27.Independence, Nicola Sturgeon. Good evening. The Westminster
:00:27. > :00:31.reshuffle was widely trailed, took two days and was constrained by
:00:31. > :00:38.coalition partners and ministerial refusals. In contrast Alex Salmond
:00:38. > :00:41.sprung a surprise, decisive re- ordering of his ministers. Along
:00:41. > :00:44.with the recently announced board of Yes Scotland and the movement of
:00:44. > :00:47.senior advisor Kevin Pringle from the government to the party, it
:00:47. > :00:50.looks like the First Minister has put in place his team to fight the
:00:50. > :00:53.referendum campaign. But will it be enough to shift the stubborn
:00:53. > :01:02.scepticism about independence in the opinion polls? Here's David
:01:02. > :01:06.Allison with the details. A day after David Cameron, it was
:01:06. > :01:16.the turn of Alex Salmond to reshuffle his ministers, his first
:01:16. > :01:19.major shake-up since taking office in 2007. I am in the fortunate
:01:19. > :01:22.position and a contrast to the Prime Minister that I have a range
:01:22. > :01:27.of talented people and a limited number of posts to put them in that
:01:27. > :01:33.I am very happy with the team I have got to take Scotland forward.
:01:33. > :01:37.Familiar faces around the cabinet table include Mike Russell in
:01:37. > :01:41.education who stays in place but there are significant changes.
:01:41. > :01:46.Nicola Sturgeon becomes infrastructure and capital spending
:01:46. > :01:52.Secretary, plus oversight of the upcoming referendum. In a direct
:01:52. > :01:57.swap Alex Neil needs infrastructure to take over as Health Secretary.
:01:57. > :02:02.The Cabinet Secretary for cabinet business is now responsible for
:02:02. > :02:08.negotiating with the use cake government. He has resigned for
:02:08. > :02:13.personal reasons and is not being replaced. Bryan Adams is replaced
:02:13. > :02:17.with Joe Fitzpatrick and in the environment Stewart Stevenson makes
:02:17. > :02:24.wake. Two new posts have been created. We have Scotland's first
:02:24. > :02:27.Asian minister for external affairs. And then there are is a new
:02:27. > :02:32.Minister for Housing and Welfare. This means that Alex Neil is in
:02:32. > :02:38.charge of the NHS and hospitals like this one. Nicola Sturgeon is
:02:38. > :02:45.in charge of infrastructure including big projects like the
:02:46. > :02:50.rebuild at this hospital. She is also in charge of making sure that
:02:50. > :02:53.construction of the new Forth crossing remains on course. The
:02:53. > :02:57.Scottish parliament building demonstrated how infrastructure can
:02:57. > :03:01.go wrong in terms of budget and a lay. Two years out from the
:03:01. > :03:06.independence referendum there she is also in charge of, the SNP can
:03:06. > :03:09.afford no slip-ups on delivery of high-profile products. Today it
:03:09. > :03:14.takes a senior minister away from health when there are huge
:03:14. > :03:17.challenges there and jobs being lost and it puts her to task on the
:03:17. > :03:22.constitution. At the same time the really important job around the
:03:22. > :03:26.economy has become a part-time job that she will do in the time left
:03:26. > :03:30.over. That is a very strong signal that the first priority is the
:03:30. > :03:34.referendum and not the things that matter to people like jobs and
:03:34. > :03:38.services. She has served as Health Secretary twice as long as anybody
:03:38. > :03:41.else in history. It is only right and proper to -- only right and
:03:41. > :03:48.proper that she gets the opportunity to display her
:03:48. > :03:53.formidable skills in terms of economic recovery. Alex Neil takes
:03:53. > :03:58.over the contentious plans to allow same-sex marriage, supported and
:03:58. > :04:02.opposed with passion from both sides. There have been some other
:04:02. > :04:06.significant moves in the last few days. Kevin Pringle, the spin
:04:06. > :04:10.doctor is moving from a government role to a party one, presumably to
:04:10. > :04:14.preach him up from the tight constraints of being a special
:04:14. > :04:17.adviser as the referendum campaign gets fully under way. The SNP's
:04:17. > :04:20.tectonic plates are being moved into place.
:04:20. > :04:23.Earlier I spoke to the new Cabinet Secretary for infrastructure and
:04:23. > :04:28.capital spending, Nicola Sturgeon, I asked her if she expects to lead
:04:28. > :04:32.the referendum campaign all the way to 2014.
:04:32. > :04:36.That of course is a matter for the first minister. I am taking this
:04:36. > :04:40.job on today with a clear determination, working with the
:04:40. > :04:45.First Minister and other colleagues to lead on matters to do with the
:04:45. > :04:50.referendum right from now, through to hopefully winning the referendum
:04:50. > :04:55.in 2014. I'd like to congratulate you but I am not sure you have been
:04:55. > :05:00.promoted. I consider it very very exciting as an opportunity. Say you
:05:00. > :05:03.think you have been promoted? don't tend to think of things in
:05:03. > :05:08.these terms and I leave it to you media commentators to decide who is
:05:08. > :05:12.up and there is down but what I have been given our exciting new
:05:12. > :05:16.responsibilities to play a key part in the government's work around
:05:16. > :05:19.economic recovery which is of vital importance and is the key priority
:05:19. > :05:23.set out in the programme for government outlined by the first
:05:23. > :05:26.minister yesterday. Secondly to lead on the preparations for the
:05:26. > :05:30.referendum and there is a very key link between the two because
:05:30. > :05:33.although we do everything we can at the moment to get our economy
:05:33. > :05:37.growing we need the power of independence to really get our
:05:37. > :05:41.economy growing to create jobs and make Scotland a more prosperous and
:05:41. > :05:44.fairer society. There will be a meeting shortly between the First
:05:44. > :05:52.Minister and the Prime Minister about the referendum. There will be
:05:52. > :05:55.a meeting within the next few weeks. I am meeting the Scotland office
:05:55. > :05:58.tomorrow morning and I will certainly hope to have a
:05:58. > :06:03.constructive discussion where we can make progress on resolving the
:06:03. > :06:07.process issues so we can get on to what the people of Scotland want, a
:06:07. > :06:11.sub-standard debate about the developments -- benefits of
:06:11. > :06:15.independence. Coming a clarity of what needs to be revolved --
:06:15. > :06:20.resolve. There is agreement that 16-year-old can take part? I will
:06:20. > :06:24.not get on today's discussions on television. Our position... Sorry,
:06:24. > :06:29.I thought that had been agreed. am not going to get into that
:06:29. > :06:33.particular detail. We are continuing these discussions the
:06:33. > :06:36.way we have been conducting them over the summer. The principal
:06:36. > :06:40.position of the Scottish government is that I hope we can make progress
:06:40. > :06:44.on the basis of this principle which is that we want to make
:06:44. > :06:47.progress and resolve these issues but we must ensure that the
:06:47. > :06:50.referendum is built here in Scotland and that is a key
:06:50. > :06:54.principle and one that would enjoy support amongst the majority of
:06:54. > :06:58.people in Scotland. If we can agree that them we can move on and agree
:06:58. > :07:02.the other issues in fairly short order and there we can have that
:07:02. > :07:05.very exciting debate about why it would be better for Scotland and
:07:05. > :07:10.for people in Scotland if we were independent with all the power that
:07:10. > :07:14.comes with that. If you think this can be resolved in short order, as
:07:14. > :07:17.you put it, presumably you now accept there will be a single
:07:17. > :07:21.question referendum for independence. We continue the
:07:21. > :07:25.discussions on all of these matters. Clearly there is another very
:07:25. > :07:28.important factor here and that is the results of the Scottish
:07:28. > :07:33.government consultation which will also be published in the next few
:07:34. > :07:39.weeks. We have 26,000 responses to that consultation and we're taking
:07:39. > :07:43.care to independently and analyse those responses and I hope this
:07:43. > :07:47.will be resolved quickly. It must be resolved on the basis of a point
:07:47. > :07:52.of principle that it is not for Westminster to dictate the terms of
:07:52. > :07:55.the Scottish referendum. We must have a referendum that is there,
:07:55. > :08:01.legal and decisive and is in the interests of the people of Scotland
:08:01. > :08:06.to vote in a referendum. I am still not clear about the one or to
:08:06. > :08:10.question a thing. What other principles you are outlining? If he
:08:10. > :08:15.was a new independent review of the consultation and says that people,
:08:15. > :08:19.some people, a lot of people, how many people want a two-question
:08:19. > :08:22.referendum? The principle is that we need to get to a referendum that
:08:22. > :08:26.is in the interest of the people of Scotland. We cannot conduct this
:08:26. > :08:30.discussion on the basis of what might be advantageous or in the
:08:31. > :08:34.tactical interest of any one political party. This issue is too
:08:34. > :08:38.important for that. I am a nationalist politician. I have
:08:38. > :08:42.believed for my entire adult life that Scotland would be better off
:08:42. > :08:46.as an independent Scotland but a lot of people in the country take a
:08:46. > :08:50.different view. There are those who oppose independence and there are
:08:50. > :08:53.also people were more power was short of independence. Yes, we will
:08:53. > :08:57.resolve these matters over the next few weeks but we must decided on
:08:57. > :09:03.the basis of what is best for Scotland. I am simply asking you
:09:03. > :09:08.what your own opinion is. Are you saying that a majority of people
:09:08. > :09:13.say they want a two-question referendum so that it will be...
:09:13. > :09:17.Remember, we had a similar discussion when I published the
:09:17. > :09:22.results of the same-sex marriage consultation. A Yes, and you
:09:22. > :09:26.ignored it. I made the important point to use them and perhaps you
:09:26. > :09:29.should listen to it again. Consultations are very important.
:09:29. > :09:33.They are not referendums but they are an important factor to take
:09:33. > :09:37.into account in coming to a balanced decision about what is in
:09:37. > :09:41.the overall interest in our judgment of the people of Scotland.
:09:41. > :09:45.The important principle I am laying out is one I hope that all parties
:09:45. > :09:49.and all politicians can subscribe to whatever the views of
:09:49. > :09:53.independence, its that narrow party interest is not what should govern
:09:53. > :09:56.the decisions about Scotland's referendum and that is the spirit I
:09:56. > :10:00.were taking to the Scotland office tomorrow and I hope he will bring
:10:00. > :10:05.that spirit to. This consultation, when you get round to analysing a...
:10:05. > :10:11.I am in the process of analysing it. Can we have assurances that you
:10:11. > :10:16.will strip out answers from outside Scotland, answers on postcards...
:10:16. > :10:20.There will be complete transparency. Just as you did with a gay marriage
:10:20. > :10:26.one. Of course! There will be transparency round the presentation.
:10:26. > :10:30.We have had 26,000 responses to this consultation and it has been a
:10:30. > :10:33.important consultation that has generated a lot of interest. You're
:10:33. > :10:40.right, just as we took care to do with the same-sex marriage
:10:40. > :10:44.consultation, we will ensure that the results are let out openly...
:10:44. > :10:46.In the same way, with things stripped out? With the same
:10:46. > :10:50.explanation around all the different categories of responses
:10:51. > :10:55.we have been given another consultations. We are in the
:10:55. > :10:58.business of being open, honest and transparent a rabble of this. It is
:10:58. > :11:03.up to people of that Scotland to decide the question of independence
:11:03. > :11:06.and I look forward to arguing that case but Scotland will take the
:11:06. > :11:09.decision. A lot of the stuff you are saying risk lies on
:11:09. > :11:12.organisations over which you have no control like the British
:11:13. > :11:17.government. When you say that Scotland will have a representative
:11:17. > :11:22.on the monetary policy of the Bank of England and they will act as the
:11:23. > :11:25.lender of last resort for Scotland, were you before referendums enter
:11:25. > :11:28.into negotiations with the British government and other people of
:11:28. > :11:31.Scotland what the answers are because it seems reasonable that
:11:31. > :11:35.the people of Scotland should know what they are voting about? We have
:11:35. > :11:40.already said many times and I will say it again here that we will lay
:11:40. > :11:44.this all out in the White Paper. would make a sick with other
:11:44. > :11:49.organisations? I am happy to any Decio with all kinds of
:11:49. > :11:52.organisation before the referendum of what you must remember tarmac I
:11:52. > :11:56.will tell the people of Scotland what I think the benefits of
:11:56. > :11:59.independence are but I hope you put that question at John next
:11:59. > :12:04.opportunity to a representative of the UK Government because the UK
:12:04. > :12:09.government is not impartial in this debate. UK government ministers
:12:09. > :12:16.have a vested interest in giving answers that they think... I am
:12:16. > :12:20.sorry, we must bring this to a close. Her have you just given us
:12:20. > :12:24.authority to ask the British government to hold negotiations
:12:24. > :12:28.with you on some of these issues and you will publicise the results?
:12:29. > :12:33.No, that is not what I did as you well know. The point I was making
:12:33. > :12:35.is that the UK government is not an impartial a participant in this.
:12:35. > :12:39.They have a vested interest in giving answers that they think
:12:39. > :12:43.would be most unhelpful and the most scary that they believe they
:12:43. > :12:46.can make them. We will be doing this properly and making the case
:12:46. > :12:49.and we will be making responsible preparations for Scotland becoming
:12:49. > :12:59.an independent country and I am looking forward to taking a lead in
:12:59. > :13:00.
:13:00. > :13:04.To be continued and continued and continued. Thank you.
:13:04. > :13:06.I am joined now in the studio by the Political Editor of the
:13:06. > :13:10.Scotsman, Eddie Barnes, and from Edinburgh by The Herald's Political
:13:10. > :13:17.Commentator, Iain Macwhirter. There are suggestions that the Government
:13:17. > :13:23.are fairly near to agreement. Do you buy that? There is a fair
:13:23. > :13:30.amount of momentum building up. You spoke about Kevin Pringle, one of
:13:30. > :13:34.Alex Salmond's key advisers, moving over to the SNP to look after
:13:34. > :13:42.strategy and communications. There is momentum building up, so that
:13:42. > :13:46.build an expectation that we are moving towards... They are
:13:46. > :13:51.gathering for the campaign. At the same time, there has not been a
:13:51. > :14:01.movement on the pro-union side when it comes to formulating some kind
:14:01. > :14:02.
:14:02. > :14:09.of people max position. -- some kind of devolution max position.
:14:09. > :14:13.Who knows what David Cameron might do? He might suddenly decide he is
:14:13. > :14:20.going to organise his referendum himself, which I suspect would not
:14:20. > :14:27.be the worst thing for the SNP campaign. I feel we are moving
:14:27. > :14:32.towards a yes vote. David Cameron has insisted that he will only
:14:32. > :14:36.accept a referendum on section 30, one that gives the Scottish
:14:36. > :14:39.Parliament the constitutional right took hold a referendum and he will
:14:39. > :14:48.only do that if there is a single question. It is widely assumed that
:14:48. > :14:52.the pressure from what is called civic Scotland to come up with this
:14:52. > :14:57.alternative for independence light or a maximum devolution has been
:14:57. > :15:02.rather stillborn. It has not add here. There is not an obvious
:15:02. > :15:06.second question. This has to be decided in a matter of weeks. There
:15:06. > :15:13.has been a referendum Bill tabled with no guarantee it will ever
:15:13. > :15:17.happen. There was a widespread view that as well as consideration for
:15:17. > :15:21.civic Scotland, the second question was the get out of jail cause for
:15:21. > :15:29.the SNP. There was a theory that this was Alex Salmond having it
:15:29. > :15:34.both ways. So that he will win even if he loses. Am not sure that is
:15:34. > :15:42.entirely true. He certainly was sincere when he was indicating that
:15:42. > :15:46.there would be a place for maximum devolution on the ballot paper. But
:15:46. > :15:53.over the years he has always been quite plain that his preference is
:15:53. > :16:01.for there to be one question. Many people, including an -- including
:16:01. > :16:08.Nicola Sturgeon, also thought a single question was the way to go.
:16:08. > :16:14.We know that the vast majority of Scots would vote for a parliament
:16:14. > :16:21.with more powers. Does this mean we can conclusively say there will be
:16:21. > :16:26.a referendum? Has the wiggle room vanished? It is closing. It has
:16:26. > :16:31.entered a parliamentary process now and the bill will be tabled. Four
:16:31. > :16:35.it suddenly now to be delayed through a legal process in the
:16:35. > :16:41.courts, that is still an option, but for that to happen now would
:16:41. > :16:50.stretch credulity. It has moved on so much from January and the issues
:16:50. > :16:56.have been tested about maximum devolution. It would be
:16:56. > :17:02.extraordinary for it not to go ahead now. What do they do next? I
:17:02. > :17:05.know there has been all sorts of kerfuffle about alleged support for
:17:05. > :17:10.independence going down in the polls, but the basic point has been
:17:10. > :17:15.much the same for about 20 years. Don't they have to do something
:17:15. > :17:20.that is again changer? This is what he is trying to do. This is the a
:17:20. > :17:24.team and the phoney war is over. People who thought that Alex
:17:24. > :17:30.Salmond might be becoming a less enthusiastic of holding a
:17:30. > :17:34.referendum, this is the answer. This is Nicola Sturgeon who will be
:17:34. > :17:42.the face of the referendum campaign. She will be leading from the front,
:17:42. > :17:48.as you heard earlier. Do you think having a new personnel can be again
:17:48. > :17:54.danger in itself? Desire have to be a new argument in policy?
:17:54. > :17:59.Absolutely. Is this question of 40% that everyone discusses. We know
:17:59. > :18:03.that 30% will fought for independence. 30% will definitely
:18:03. > :18:12.not fought for it. There is 40% in the middle and they have to be
:18:12. > :18:17.persuaded. The SNP will subtly changed idea of independence, so it
:18:17. > :18:23.can incorporate the idea of a Social Union. In other words, we
:18:23. > :18:27.won't be leaving the United Kingdom, we will be joining an United
:18:27. > :18:32.Kingdom. After independence, people in Scotland could still call
:18:32. > :18:37.themselves British. This is subtly changing the argument to make it
:18:37. > :18:42.easier for people who are not natural nationalists do vote for
:18:42. > :18:47.independence. However, the more you stress the continuity, the pound,
:18:47. > :18:53.the Queen, the more you undermine the case for withdrawing completely
:18:53. > :18:57.from Westminster. People will say that if we are to be part of a new
:18:57. > :19:01.Social Union in the UK, why should we give up the chance of having
:19:01. > :19:09.political representation at a heart of that union, which would be in
:19:09. > :19:12.London? No doubt there will be plenty more opportunities to