:00:03. > :00:11.budgets are slashed, into the salt off local identity. Spain's
:00:11. > :00:14.strategic problems cannot be On Newsnight Scotland tonight, the
:00:14. > :00:18.Chancellor of the Exchequer tells me about his reasons for wanting to
:00:18. > :00:21.keep Scotland in the UK. This evening, he's also been explaining
:00:21. > :00:31.his reasoning to a sympathetic audience at the CBI Scotland Annual
:00:31. > :00:32.
:00:32. > :00:38.Dinner. All those Scotland has always shared the benefit of the
:00:38. > :00:43.UK's interest rates, it is very unlikely that the Government of an
:00:43. > :00:48.independent Scotland could borrow as cheaply. It is the interest rate
:00:48. > :00:54.on government bonds that will is one of the key determinants under
:00:54. > :01:03.pending -- underpinning the cost of all credit, so there would be
:01:03. > :01:07.higher interest rates. Let us be clear - independence would change
:01:07. > :01:12.the UK's current institutional arrangements for ever. Scotland and
:01:12. > :01:15.the rest of the UK would become a separate, foreign countries.
:01:15. > :01:17.As the Holyrood Government consults on a new lower limit for drink-
:01:17. > :01:21.driving, we wonder if there's a propensity for Scottish politicians
:01:21. > :01:24.to want to legislate to control individual behaviour.
:01:24. > :01:26.Good evening. On the day referendum talks between Nicola Sturgeon and
:01:26. > :01:29.David Mundell are described as "good-natured and constructive",
:01:29. > :01:34.the Chancellor of the Exchequer is in Glasgow, putting his gloss on
:01:34. > :01:36.his reasons for opposing Scottish independence. He's not
:01:37. > :01:39.traditionally the most popular Conservative in Scotland, but Mr
:01:39. > :01:44.Osborne was largely among friends today as he visited an armaments
:01:44. > :01:48.company on the Clyde and tonight, as he addressed the Scottish CBI.
:01:48. > :01:51.His message on both occasions has been the same. Earlier today, at
:01:51. > :01:54.the Thales plant in Govan, where they make things like submarine
:01:54. > :02:02.periscopes, I asked him if he was here to make a positive case for
:02:02. > :02:09.the union or scare Scots into saying no.
:02:09. > :02:15.I am here to make a very positive case for the union. My message is
:02:15. > :02:22.that Scotland walks taller, shouts top -- louder as part of the UK.
:02:22. > :02:28.Top international businesses have found a great home in Scotland. I
:02:28. > :02:34.think both Scotland and the rest of the UK have so much to do and game,
:02:34. > :02:41.working together, over the many years ahead. We hear the director
:02:41. > :02:46.general of the CBI talking about the potential uncertainty around
:02:46. > :02:52.the referendum. Alex Salmond thinks the real uncertainty for business
:02:52. > :02:55.is your economic policy and the fact it is not working. When it
:02:55. > :03:04.comes to the independence referendum, there is a deal to be
:03:04. > :03:09.done. Let us have it, let us have that referendum on the back end of
:03:09. > :03:13.2014. Let us make it a single question that resolves the
:03:13. > :03:19.uncertainty that the head of the UK CBI is talking about in Glasgow
:03:19. > :03:23.today. That enable Scotland and the rest of the UK to move on, and it
:03:23. > :03:26.went -- and when it comes to the economy, look at how all 85,000
:03:26. > :03:31.jobs and the private sector have been created in Scotland over the
:03:31. > :03:36.last couple of years, look at how affordable manufacturing jobs have
:03:36. > :03:41.been created in Scotland. Scotland benefits from being part of a
:03:41. > :03:48.strong United Kingdom, and a United Kingdom that is seen to have a
:03:48. > :03:51.credible economic policy. Alex Salmond was say the reason Scotland
:03:51. > :04:01.has outperformed the UK is because you have a separate Scottish
:04:01. > :04:01.
:04:01. > :04:05.Government. Is it not time to change plan? Alex Salmond has had
:04:05. > :04:12.over �1 billion extra in the last couple of years against the
:04:12. > :04:17.spending plans I announced. I think he should have spent money on that.
:04:17. > :04:22.All of us have to understand we have debts which we have to pay off,
:04:22. > :04:27.but even with that, we are investing in the big infrastructure
:04:27. > :04:32.the Scotland and the UK needs. Today, we have published a Bill
:04:32. > :04:36.that will enable the British Government to underwrite and
:04:36. > :04:42.guarantee big investment in the infrastructure of the future, and
:04:42. > :04:47.we can do that because of the very credible sovereign rating and low
:04:47. > :04:54.interest rates that the UK has. Which big infrastructure projects
:04:54. > :05:01.for we have in Scotland? That is up to the Scottish Government. There
:05:01. > :05:07.are guarantees are available. We can use our ability to borrow money
:05:07. > :05:14.at low interest rates to help the entire UK economy. How much would
:05:14. > :05:20.you give John Swinney? We are able to guarantee investment in Scotland.
:05:20. > :05:27.I think it is a perfect example of how the UK pulls together and is
:05:27. > :05:29.better together. Frankly, there are a lot of questions that John
:05:29. > :05:35.Swinney and Alex Salmond have not been able to answer about the
:05:35. > :05:44.economic policies of any -- an independent Scotland. Why would
:05:44. > :05:47.interest rates not go up? On the currency, there are basic questions
:05:47. > :05:55.which Alex Salmond cannot answer about monetary union with the rest
:05:55. > :06:01.of the UK, should Scotland become independent. If he cannot do that,
:06:01. > :06:07.the Scottish people are entitled to ask him basic questions. Do you
:06:07. > :06:14.think an independent Scotland is sustainable? The question is, would
:06:14. > :06:22.such -- would Scott would be better off independent? My answer is no. -
:06:22. > :06:32.- would Scotland. Alex Salmond has to answer basic questions about how
:06:32. > :06:37.monetary policy would operate. He says he would join the power and
:06:37. > :06:42.Stirling area, but surely, those countries in the euro are having to
:06:42. > :06:49.integrate their economic policies. Why would that not apply to power
:06:49. > :06:52.on Stirling? These are basic questions which someone like the
:06:53. > :06:58.First Minister is advocating has got to be able to answer, and
:06:58. > :07:03.frankly, I never heard no credible answers from him all year. Lots of
:07:03. > :07:13.people will be asking questions about why you will find growth in
:07:13. > :07:14.
:07:14. > :07:19.fee future. -- growth in the future. It is a very difficult economic
:07:19. > :07:25.position brought about by the problems and the UK economy, the
:07:25. > :07:29.debts built up and having to pay those debts off, and it is not made
:07:29. > :07:34.easier by the crisis on our doorstep and the countries we
:07:34. > :07:39.export to in Europe and elsewhere. Of course, we have a very difficult
:07:39. > :07:44.economic situation. People understand that. But what I would
:07:44. > :07:47.say is that Britain is becoming a better place to do business.
:07:47. > :07:52.Companies like this are finding this a more competitive place to
:07:52. > :07:56.sell around the world, and this week, Britain had the entered the
:07:56. > :08:04.top 10 countries and the world as a place to do business. That is an
:08:04. > :08:06.amazing achievement! We are back in the top 10 list of countries.
:08:06. > :08:10.Now, the Justice Secretary announced today that the Scottish
:08:10. > :08:12.Government is to consult on making the drink-driving law stricter. The
:08:12. > :08:15.Scottish Parliament only recently received the power to do that, and
:08:15. > :08:21.Kenny McAskill has said he wants to look into bringing the permissible
:08:21. > :08:24.alcohol level down to the the European norm or even below that.
:08:24. > :08:26.There's no immediate plan to change the law in England. Is this simply
:08:26. > :08:29.progressive government, or do Scottish parliamentarians have a
:08:29. > :08:35.disproportionate tendency to make rules about how people lead their
:08:35. > :08:45.lives? Shortly, we'll debate that, but first, Steven Duff has this
:08:45. > :08:45.
:08:45. > :08:48.report. Kenny MacAskill insists train --
:08:48. > :08:55.changing the drink-drive limit would not be changed for the sake
:08:55. > :09:01.of it. Today's announcement on a consultation of reducing the limit
:09:01. > :09:07.comes after the recent transfer of the power from Westminster to the
:09:07. > :09:13.Scottish Parliament. Supporters say it could save lives. We know it has
:09:13. > :09:20.the potential to save 70 Leipzig year in Scotland. It also has sent
:09:20. > :09:26.out a clear message that it is becoming even more unacceptable.
:09:26. > :09:33.present, the UK and mortar give motorists the most in the way,
:09:33. > :09:39.allowing a blood alcohol level of 80 milligrams. If Scotland does
:09:39. > :09:46.change to a limit to 50 milligrams, it would be in line with most ani -
:09:46. > :09:51.- most other countries. The Czech Republic, Romania, Estonia,
:09:51. > :09:57.Slovakia and Hungary have zero limits of alcohol allowed. A change
:09:57. > :10:03.would be the latest wave we would find ourselves different from the
:10:04. > :10:12.UK. Scotland was the part of the UK to introduce a ban on smoking in
:10:12. > :10:18.public places. But six and a half years on, many people would find it
:10:18. > :10:28.incredible that people allowed to smoke and pubs were allowed to do
:10:28. > :10:28.
:10:28. > :10:33.that. At that to the risk of a minimum price of alcohol. Do
:10:33. > :10:43.certain laws protect us? Do they protect us from ourselves? Have
:10:43. > :10:43.
:10:43. > :10:47.they gone that bit further by telling us how to live our lives?
:10:47. > :10:52.My mum says I should not go off with people I do not know.
:10:52. > :10:59.Governments have tried to save us from ourselves in a heartfelt but
:10:59. > :11:08.patronising way. To you, it is just a fridge... Over the years, they
:11:08. > :11:14.have advised us from everything to not messing around with abandoned
:11:14. > :11:20.fridges to how to survive a nuclear attack. If you are taken the advice,
:11:20. > :11:30.you will come by now, have chosen your room and gather jaw no tears
:11:30. > :11:33.
:11:33. > :11:39.for an inner refuge. -- and gathered at York materials. Some
:11:39. > :11:49.campaigns are more hard hitting, but is there more of a tendency to
:11:49. > :11:57.
:11:57. > :12:02.Or I did in the run-up to many laws. Other countries not so much, but
:12:02. > :12:12.Scotland is a free country. We all think that we are quite free, and
:12:12. > :12:23.
:12:23. > :12:30.we're not. There are far too many CCTV cameras. Atos seems so far
:12:30. > :12:40.away from the days of day. Super in every way, we know, apart from
:12:40. > :12:44.
:12:44. > :12:49.being able to swim so stop i am joined by two social scientists,
:12:49. > :12:58.Professor Gerard Hastings has just published the The Marketing Matrix,
:12:58. > :13:00.and from Dundee his doctor -- Dr Stuart Waiton, author of Snobs'
:13:00. > :13:04.Law: Criminalising Football Fans in an Age of Innocence.
:13:04. > :13:09.Just because politicians say that we should change our behaviour,
:13:09. > :13:13.while the public listen? necessarily, but I do think it is a
:13:13. > :13:17.good idea that politicians give advice and guidance and leadership
:13:17. > :13:21.on things, like the smoke-free public places, which is a great
:13:21. > :13:25.steps forward. Scotland led the way in Europe on that. But that
:13:25. > :13:30.legislation has been such a success because the public were behind it,
:13:30. > :13:35.people wanted this to happen. Both you get those two things and do
:13:35. > :13:39.have a functioning democracy. think that might happen if the
:13:39. > :13:44.Scottish government go-ahead on reforming the drink driving lock?
:13:44. > :13:48.The reality is that people are killed on the road from drink-
:13:48. > :13:54.driving. What this legislation does his says that there is really
:13:54. > :14:00.nothing as says Met and -- a safe limit. People just have to sock --
:14:00. > :14:03.to stop drinking if they are going to drive. Isn't one of the jobs of
:14:03. > :14:08.a government to protect its citizens? That is all they are
:14:08. > :14:14.doing by banning smoking, by tackling alcohol when minimum
:14:14. > :14:19.pricing, and perhaps even by changing drink-driving laws?
:14:19. > :14:25.Protection is the thing, because I beat described the state has in it
:14:25. > :14:30.and -- at the minutes as a protection racket. That is what is
:14:30. > :14:37.appears to be in terms of the number of slots - mind the number
:14:37. > :14:42.of laws. I think we have to recognise that in the last two
:14:42. > :14:47.decades, safety has become something of an obsession. It goes
:14:47. > :14:52.well beyond just me advice. It starts to become a form of
:14:52. > :15:02.moralising, which has a certain hysterical and at times irrational
:15:02. > :15:12.content to it. Give us an example of political moralising. A good
:15:12. > :15:17.
:15:17. > :15:22.example is a eats campaign. -- AIDS campaign. It is interesting how it
:15:22. > :15:30.an awareness campaign gives yippies information and then you have it.
:15:30. > :15:35.At the it yet, and then you give it -- and then the give it to you
:15:36. > :15:42.again and again. It becomes a new morality. Ironically, we could not
:15:42. > :15:45.will catch the disease in the way that they describe it.
:15:46. > :15:49.The disease as an issue is not something which needed to be
:15:49. > :15:53.tackled. Do not need to get people's attention to change their
:15:53. > :15:59.behaviour? If you do not do that with one leaflet, you have to ram
:15:59. > :16:02.home the message. If you could only catch the disease in the way that
:16:02. > :16:06.they describe it, then that would be fine, but it was not true, which
:16:06. > :16:14.is why hardly anybody outside of the high risk group Scott the
:16:14. > :16:17.disease. -- caught the disease. There is a desperation to try to
:16:17. > :16:23.push these messages, even when factually it is extremely
:16:23. > :16:33.problematic. He cannot catch the disease? It is very difficult to
:16:33. > :16:38.
:16:38. > :16:45.catch the disease outside of high risk groups.
:16:45. > :16:48.Let us move on. Professor Gerard Hastings, to summarise that point,
:16:48. > :16:52.politicians perhaps think that the public are a bit thick and they
:16:52. > :16:56.keep on ramming home message after a message, information is one thing,
:16:56. > :17:01.but trying to influence the hearer in this kind of way is going too
:17:01. > :17:04.far? We are individuals and should be left to make up our own mind?
:17:04. > :17:10.Politicians cannot tell us everything if we do not want to do
:17:10. > :17:17.it. That they can change the what? De La is there as an indication as
:17:17. > :17:20.to how we should behave. -- the law. Ultimately, the poll tax
:17:20. > :17:25.legislation for example had to be taken out, because people do not
:17:25. > :17:31.co-operate with it. The laws have to be intelligent, if people are
:17:31. > :17:34.going to respect them. I am astonished that we are sitting here
:17:34. > :17:39.arguing against legislation by government. When you see the
:17:39. > :17:43.catastrophe of the banks over the last ten years and that is down to
:17:43. > :17:47.a lack of regulation. Government needs to become more involved in
:17:47. > :17:53.how the society is run, because if they do not get involved a lot of
:17:53. > :17:57.powerful interests will do so. asked at the beginning of this
:17:57. > :18:02.whether politicians in Scotland are more keen than other parts of the
:18:02. > :18:06.UK or Europe to legislate on people's be there. She think there
:18:06. > :18:10.is a point and that? There is a slight point, I would not over
:18:10. > :18:16.exaggerate. I think that New Labour, the British Government, introduced
:18:16. > :18:20.a new law for every single day they were in Government. It is not a
:18:20. > :18:27.Scottish phenomenon. But because the Scottish Parliament is new, new
:18:27. > :18:31.trends are picked a more fervently. So for example, that if --
:18:31. > :18:39.defensive be read through all hell has taken their idea that fans
:18:39. > :18:45.should not be a offensive and should be imprisoned if they are
:18:45. > :18:49.offensive. The idea that people can sing songs at the audience there is
:18:49. > :18:54.seen as criminals. Scotland as head of the game in terms of these
:18:54. > :18:58.trends. Watching the government try to tackle next? Let us not lose
:18:58. > :19:04.sight of the fact that governments setting -- stepping in and doing
:19:04. > :19:14.things in a proactive way is a negative thing. We go back to the
:19:14. > :19:14.
:19:14. > :19:17.smoking ban. One worker week in the UK was dying a result of -- as a
:19:17. > :19:21.result of second-hand smoke. The biggest issue we have to start
:19:21. > :19:27.thinking about is how much can some she we are doing and how that is
:19:27. > :19:31.having an impact on the planet. Attacks on what? I do not know what
:19:31. > :19:38.about taxes, a debate has to happen, because we are consuming more and
:19:38. > :19:45.more or. We have run out of time. Thank you very much for joining us.