:00:02. > :00:12.the south of California, and people in Egypt, I am sorry, it is not
:00:12. > :00:15.
:00:15. > :00:19.credible. I am afraid we have to On Newsnight Scotland tonight, the
:00:19. > :00:23.Scottish Government presents its spending plans for the coming year.
:00:23. > :00:26.No huge surprises, but has Mr Swinney succeeded in persuading the
:00:27. > :00:32.voters that he is doing better with the resources available than anyone
:00:32. > :00:35.else could do? In the run-up to today's Scottish Government budget,
:00:35. > :00:38.we were warned by the Finance Secretary that he faced the
:00:38. > :00:42.toughest financial settlement since the Scottish Parliament was
:00:42. > :00:48.reconvened more than a decade ago. MSPs may have expected a brutal
:00:48. > :00:53.budget, but Mr Swinney turned up not with an axe but with a shield,
:00:53. > :00:58.portraying himself as the protector of public services, protecting
:00:58. > :01:03.Scotland from the vicious blows inflicted by Europe and by London.
:01:03. > :01:08.This report from Catriona Renton. This was never going to be a
:01:08. > :01:13.radical budget. It is the third year of a four-year plan. The
:01:13. > :01:17.Finance Secretary appeared to have three main themes - driving growth,
:01:17. > :01:23.countering cuts from the UK Government, and that an independent
:01:23. > :01:30.Scotland would have greater flexibility.
:01:30. > :01:34.The draft budget maintains that the course which was set out in 2011,
:01:34. > :01:40.and continues our track record of effective stewardship of Scotland's
:01:40. > :01:44.public finances. There may not have been much to play with, but John
:01:44. > :01:49.Swinney did manage to conjure up some money. He is cutting the
:01:49. > :01:56.amount he is lending to Scottish water by �45 million. This will
:01:56. > :02:02.free up some cash. And amongst the goodies on offer, �80 million for
:02:02. > :02:06.new schools, �40 million going into affordable housing, and �30 million
:02:06. > :02:13.into insulation. But his opponents did not think it was any great
:02:13. > :02:19.shakes - a pass the buck budget, says Labour. The decisions taken by
:02:19. > :02:26.this end he Minister, and by this administration, have cost 30,000
:02:26. > :02:29.public sector jobs over the last year alone. And yet the Finance
:02:29. > :02:34.Minister stands before us today with no hint of humility, and no
:02:34. > :02:43.hint of apology. The truth is that this Finance Minister seems content
:02:43. > :02:48.to pass the buck. An on a full budget, said the Tories. Total
:02:48. > :02:56.Scottish Government budget, just over �34 billion. The budget that
:02:56. > :03:00.Mr Swinney inherited, �31.9 billion. More than �2 billion more at his
:03:00. > :03:06.disposable than he had when he arrived in office, yet he complains
:03:06. > :03:12.about savage cuts. At best, this could be described as an Bhatt full
:03:12. > :03:16.budget. And the verdict of the Liberal Democrats? This is a timid
:03:16. > :03:20.budget, proposed by a government which is more focused on
:03:20. > :03:25.independence than economic growth. The Green Party said it was a
:03:25. > :03:29.budget that the Tories would be proud of. And then there is the
:03:29. > :03:34.apparent thaw in freezing public sector pay. Last year I said I
:03:34. > :03:44.would seek to ease pay restraint. I am now able to announce a modest
:03:44. > :03:46.
:03:46. > :03:52.increase for most employees. This policy will cap increases, but with
:03:52. > :03:57.priority for people earning less than �21,000. The only people
:03:57. > :04:06.actually covered by this Arsenal servants, some NHS staff and
:04:06. > :04:11.employees of quangos, about 28,000 people. Their union says he has
:04:11. > :04:15.missed an opportunity. It is the same policy that George Osborne has
:04:15. > :04:21.passed in the UK Civil Service. Under devolution, Mr Swinney has
:04:21. > :04:24.the opportunity to do something different, to actually show
:04:24. > :04:30.Scottish public sector workers that this government actually want to do
:04:30. > :04:34.more for them than the Tories down south. In the wider public sector,
:04:34. > :04:38.the outlook would appear to be bleak, too. Glasgow City council is
:04:38. > :04:43.Scotland's largest local authority. The union that represents many of
:04:43. > :04:48.its workers told us that they were concerned about the announcement on
:04:48. > :04:52.public sector pay. They say, unless local government is funded even to
:04:52. > :04:55.pay this limited increase, there is no guarantee that the largest group
:04:55. > :05:03.of public sector workers in local government will receive the
:05:03. > :05:06.increase. Other items which caught our at eye today, building on the
:05:06. > :05:12.momentum following the Olympics in the run-up to the Commonwealth
:05:12. > :05:15.Games in Glasgow in 2014, there is �1 million for elite athletes and
:05:15. > :05:20.�6 million for cycling infrastructure, and �1 million to
:05:20. > :05:23.maintain historic buildings. Like in every budget, there are winners
:05:24. > :05:27.and losers, and you cannot please all of the people all of the time.
:05:27. > :05:34.But the Finance Secretary must be hoping there is enough in there to
:05:34. > :05:44.boost the economy. A while ago, John Swinney came into
:05:44. > :05:46.
:05:46. > :05:49.our Dundee studio. I put it to him, where are all the cuts? In 2011-12,
:05:49. > :05:54.I set out a budget which essentially reduced public
:05:54. > :05:58.expenditure in Scotland by �1.3 billion, the largest reduction in
:05:58. > :06:02.public expenditure which has had to be faced. The point I made in
:06:02. > :06:06.Parliament today was that over the Spending Review period, we are
:06:06. > :06:10.facing the toughest settlement since devolution. In this financial
:06:10. > :06:16.year, the Scottish Government's budget is falling both in cash and
:06:16. > :06:25.in real terms. I have had to find an approach which is necessary to
:06:25. > :06:31.make so far raised -- maximise the effectiveness of public expenditure.
:06:31. > :06:36.I have taken some resources out of the Forth Bridge contingency fund.
:06:36. > :06:42.So, there are no cuts? Of course there have been reductions in
:06:42. > :06:45.public spending should, which we have had to deal with. -- in public
:06:45. > :06:50.expenditure. For example, we have had to have a period of significant
:06:50. > :06:54.pay restraint for public sector workers over the last two years. I
:06:54. > :06:57.do not underestimate the scale of the pressure which this has put on
:06:57. > :07:06.household incomes. I have been able to offer some modest respite from
:07:06. > :07:12.that today. But salaries account for more than 60% of our
:07:12. > :07:17.expenditure. That has been putting real pressure on the budget. That
:07:17. > :07:20.1% pay increase which was announced today, the unions or accusing you
:07:20. > :07:25.of dancing to the tune of George Osborne, is that not what you're
:07:25. > :07:31.doing? I have got to live within the resources that I have at my
:07:31. > :07:35.disposal. I do not have the ability to decide what the total number on
:07:35. > :07:42.spent by the Scottish Government will be. That is decided by George
:07:42. > :07:45.Osborne. That is the inevitability of devolution. But you decide how
:07:45. > :07:50.your �28 billion it should be spent, that's why the public pays you a
:07:50. > :07:54.decent salary. So, you take political decisions, and the unions
:07:54. > :07:58.say the decision you have taken on pay is to follow George Osborne.
:07:58. > :08:03.have taken decisions which or about protecting public sector employment.
:08:03. > :08:09.The unions in Scotland and workers in Scotland in the public sector
:08:09. > :08:13.get a guarantee of no compulsory redundancies. Down south, people
:08:13. > :08:16.have been made compulsorily redundant left, right and centre,
:08:16. > :08:21.within the public sector. We have set out our commitment to a living
:08:21. > :08:25.wage in Scotland, providing a decent income for public sector
:08:25. > :08:28.workers at the lower end of the spectrum. You do not get that in
:08:28. > :08:35.England. So we have taken a different course of action in many
:08:35. > :08:39.areas. But ultimately, the budget that I have to operate within it is
:08:39. > :08:43.upset by the UK Government, and the sooner the Scottish Parliament has
:08:43. > :08:48.full control over all aspects of taxation, the more control we will
:08:48. > :08:53.be able to exercise on behalf of the people of Scotland. UK-funded a
:08:53. > :08:58.1% increase for local government workers, did you not? I have given
:08:58. > :09:01.a settlement to local government which makes sure that this air of
:09:01. > :09:08.public expenditure which is allocated to local government is
:09:08. > :09:14.higher now than it was in 2008. -- the share. That does not answer my
:09:14. > :09:18.question. It is up to local government to decide how to use
:09:18. > :09:23.their resources. Just to be clear, you have not specifically given the
:09:23. > :09:31.more money, in order to fund a 1% increase in wages in local
:09:31. > :09:41.authorities? But what I did in 2007-eight, was, I reduced the
:09:41. > :09:45.ring-fencing effect, at the request of local government. I give local
:09:45. > :09:48.government a substantial sum of money, about a third of the public
:09:48. > :09:52.expenditure within Scotland, and local government is free to take
:09:52. > :09:59.its own decisions. It is perfectly proper for local government to do
:09:59. > :10:05.that. Sorry to interrupt you, but people will want clarity on this,
:10:05. > :10:08.because it is about people's wages - to be absolutely clear, you will
:10:08. > :10:16.not be sending local authorities a specific amount of money, in order
:10:16. > :10:21.to fund a 1% pay increase? To be absolutely clear, I do not ring-
:10:21. > :10:25.fence money which goes to local government. What I do is, I give
:10:25. > :10:29.local government a substantial sum of resources to determine their own
:10:29. > :10:37.priorities, as democratically elected bodies. They are
:10:37. > :10:47.responsible for wage negotiations with their staff. Why have you put
:10:47. > :10:51.
:10:51. > :10:56.There is no change to the proposal we put in place. Coming on the back
:10:56. > :11:01.of a four year freeze on water charges, a �9 increase per annum
:11:01. > :11:05.this year, doesn't strike me as a significant amount. If you can put
:11:05. > :11:09.water charges up, why can't you always put the council tax up?
:11:10. > :11:15.council tax went up under my predecessors, under both the Labour
:11:15. > :11:20.Party and the Conservatives. The council tax increased by a huge
:11:20. > :11:22.amount. We told the people of Scotland that the council tax would
:11:22. > :11:26.be frozen in the last Parliament and froodsen in this Parliament.
:11:26. > :11:29.That is the commitment we will maintain with the people of
:11:29. > :11:34.Scotland. It helps to contribute towards the economic confidence
:11:34. > :11:39.within households and it boosts their ability to contribute to
:11:39. > :11:45.local economies the length and breadth of Scotland. We will help
:11:45. > :11:51.you out where we can, we will cut council tax, you are putting up
:11:51. > :11:55.water charges, as you have just suggested at the moment. Actually,
:11:55. > :11:59.your quality assessment on this budget say that is your council tax
:11:59. > :12:03.freeze favours pensioner households. These hard-working families that
:12:03. > :12:08.you claim to be supporting, they are not getting that much of a
:12:08. > :12:14.proportionate benefit from your council tax freeze. Wouldn't they
:12:14. > :12:18.like a small council tax increase to fund better wages? People have
:12:18. > :12:21.complained to me in the past about the level of council tax increase
:12:22. > :12:24.that is the Labour Party and Conservatives presided over. They
:12:24. > :12:29.appreciate that a Scottish Government, SNP Government has been
:12:29. > :12:34.elected. It has stuck true and firm to its commitment to freeze the
:12:34. > :12:39.council tax. We have done that. What the assessments suggests that
:12:39. > :12:44.those on lowest incomes see the biggest proportionate impact on the
:12:44. > :12:51.council tax freeze on their incomes. That gives them the most benefit
:12:51. > :12:55.from any group in our society. Trying to do things while we are in
:12:55. > :12:58.office to help those on low incomes are the right things we should be
:12:59. > :13:06.doing to support those who don't have significant amounts of
:13:06. > :13:10.resources at their disposal. The Government is putting a commitment
:13:10. > :13:13.into a new initiative to create employment for young people in
:13:13. > :13:16.Scotland. Matching it with additional resources from European
:13:16. > :13:19.structural funds and creating a partnership with employers which
:13:20. > :13:23.make it is easier for small and medium sized companies in Scotland
:13:23. > :13:27.to take people on. There are a lots of small businesses who want to
:13:27. > :13:32.take on employees, they are nervous about it because of the economic
:13:32. > :13:36.conditions. How will this work? are putting in place a initiative
:13:36. > :13:39.that will make it easier by supporting the cost that is people
:13:39. > :13:43.incur to recruit staff, to take them on board and to try to
:13:43. > :13:46.encourage growth within the economy as a result. It will create good
:13:46. > :13:51.and positive destinations for young people in Scotland. That is the
:13:51. > :13:55.right thing for the government to be doing. How much are you offering
:13:55. > :14:01.small businesses, �1,000 per employee, �5,000, how will it work?
:14:01. > :14:04.It will be discussed and negotiated at local level by the different
:14:04. > :14:08.employability partnerships and different organisations that deproi
:14:08. > :14:13.ploy the schemes at local level. We are providing support to companies
:14:13. > :14:17.to assist their employment to get young people back into jobs and for
:14:17. > :14:24.the government to be a partner in supporting small businesses in
:14:24. > :14:27.doing so. There is something else that intrigued me today. For your
:14:27. > :14:32.portfolio, for the finance portfolio, the key issue in
:14:32. > :14:42.relation to quality impact is the increase in capital funding for
:14:42. > :14:43.
:14:43. > :14:48.renewable energy projects? How will your investment in renewable energy
:14:48. > :14:52.particularly help women? We have a new industry being created. We have
:14:52. > :14:55.the opportunity to tackle the occupational segregation that
:14:55. > :14:58.affects a large proportion of the workforce in Scotland. Where you
:14:58. > :15:02.have a new sector, with new skills required, new training
:15:03. > :15:09.opportunities, this is a perfect opportunity to encourage women to
:15:09. > :15:13.become involved in an area of the economy where they have been under
:15:13. > :15:18.represented. Is this positive discrimination? That is the right
:15:18. > :15:21.and progressive thing for a progressive government to do.
:15:21. > :15:26.that involve positive discrimination? I don't think there
:15:26. > :15:29.will be a formal mechanism, if that is what you are asking me. There
:15:29. > :15:33.will be steps taken to make it as practical and possible for women to
:15:33. > :15:37.enter the skills and training environment and to enter the labour
:15:37. > :15:42.market in the renewables industry, one of the great economic
:15:42. > :15:45.opportunities for many years to come within Scotland. Thank you
:15:45. > :15:48.very much. I'm joined now by finance people
:15:48. > :15:51.from the four biggest parties. Derek Mackay is a local government
:15:51. > :15:53.minster for the SNP Government, and Ken Macintosh is Finance Spokesman
:15:53. > :15:56.for Labour. In Edinburgh, Willie Rennie is
:15:56. > :16:00.leader of the Liberal Democrats and Gavin Brown speaks on finance for
:16:00. > :16:06.the Conservatives. Thank you all very much for joining us this
:16:06. > :16:09.evening. Ken Macintosh, you have to agree with an awful lot of what
:16:09. > :16:13.John Swinney did today. You too opposed the austerity programme of
:16:13. > :16:17.the UK government. He is doing his best to protect public services?
:16:17. > :16:24.Well, this is his best, then goodness know what is will happen
:16:24. > :16:30.to Scotland over the next few days. -- years. Does anyone think the
:16:30. > :16:34.economy will pick up from these announcements? This Government is
:16:34. > :16:39."content" to hide behind the excuse that Westminster's austerity
:16:39. > :16:43.budgets are to blame for everything. I do actually oppose Westminster's
:16:43. > :16:47.austerity cuts. That doesn't excuse John Swinney from not making the
:16:47. > :16:53.right choices. What are the right choices then? He found some money
:16:53. > :16:57.for housing and found money for colleges but neither went as far as
:16:57. > :17:01.reversing the cuts he made in the Budget last year. Last year he cut
:17:01. > :17:07.�6 million from the housing budget. Today he found �40 million to put
:17:07. > :17:11.back into it. Where would you have found the money? We lost 12,000
:17:11. > :17:15.construction workers over the last year because of that decision. We
:17:15. > :17:19.are not getting jobs or growth. know as well as everybody else it
:17:19. > :17:23.is a fixed budget. If he does what you suggest, trying to find another
:17:23. > :17:27.�45 million, where does he take it from? We have a number of
:17:27. > :17:32.suggestions. On housing alone. Take that one. In Wales, here is a
:17:32. > :17:37.devolved Assembly with less powers and less money than Scotland, we
:17:37. > :17:42.are going - in Wales they are using central government revenue, the
:17:42. > :17:45.Welsh Government revenue to pay off trt on local authority debts and on
:17:46. > :17:51.Housing Association debt. That frees up both organisations to
:17:51. > :17:56.borrow substantial sums of capital. You can get �10 million of revenue
:17:56. > :18:01.and turn it into �100 million of capital - That is constructive
:18:01. > :18:08.opposition. Will you listen to him We will listen to any suggestion.
:18:08. > :18:12.What the Scottish Government has shown an innovate package. We can
:18:12. > :18:16.fund �0 million accelerated funding for schools, which will support the
:18:16. > :18:20.construction sector. �40 million for housing. A further �30 million
:18:20. > :18:25.for energy efficiency measures and �17 million for colleges. That is
:18:25. > :18:29.new resources to help and stimulate private sector growth as well as
:18:29. > :18:33.job opportunities for young people. 10,000, up to 10,000 new job
:18:33. > :18:38.opportunities created for young people. This budget is being
:18:38. > :18:42.welcomed right across the private sector because they see it as
:18:42. > :18:46.stimulating recovery within the private sector. That is very
:18:46. > :18:48.welcomed. George Osborne has been speaking recently about the need to
:18:48. > :18:53.stimulate infrastructure, spending and things that the UK Government
:18:53. > :18:59.can do. That is what John Swinney is attempting to do in this Budget.
:18:59. > :19:03.That must be something you approve of? I'm not sure he is genuinelying
:19:03. > :19:07.attempting to do it. Housing, he put money back, it's nowhere near
:19:07. > :19:11.the amount ripped out of it last year, as you heard a few moments
:19:11. > :19:17.ago, in relation to things like colleges, he took �50 million out
:19:17. > :19:23.last year, he is giving them back �17 million. This was trailed as a
:19:23. > :19:27.budget that was going to be a game- changer. It was going to be an
:19:27. > :19:32.unrelenting pursuit for economic growth. He was going to put every
:19:32. > :19:36.single penny he could into the economy. As it stands, he has
:19:36. > :19:39.retained the business tax, as he put in last year, he hasn't
:19:39. > :19:45.reversed the cuts to the important areas that do help the economy.
:19:45. > :19:50.would like to see tax cuts and more money spent, how will you pay for
:19:50. > :19:54.that? In relation to Scottish Water for example, we estimate, if you
:19:54. > :19:59.take it out of ministerial control, could you save about �100 million a
:19:59. > :20:05.year, which you could then divert into housing, for example, or
:20:05. > :20:09.colleges. We think it's time to look at the travel scheme which
:20:09. > :20:15.costs �200 million a year. Our manifesto position was it should be
:20:15. > :20:20.raised for those aged 65 and above. We think it would save �30 million
:20:20. > :20:24.to �40 million a year. Wee would not have scrapped prescription
:20:24. > :20:27.charges, that would save �48 million. We have put forward a
:20:28. > :20:33.number of ideas this year and last year that would save money and that
:20:33. > :20:36.we think could be redeployed to areas that would actually help.
:20:36. > :20:42.are in coalition with Gavin Brown's party in Westminster, you would
:20:42. > :20:45.sign up to that manifesto he just outlined? No. The missed
:20:45. > :20:50.opportunity today was in Scottish Water. If John Swinney was to
:20:50. > :20:53.reform Scottish Water he could release �1.5 billion. That would be
:20:54. > :20:58.a real impetuous for creating jobs and growth. John Swinney turned his
:20:58. > :21:03.face against it today. It was a big opportunity that he missed.
:21:04. > :21:09.Wouldn't that involve, as your critics say, privatising Scottish
:21:09. > :21:16.Water? No. The SNP have been sympathetic towards it in the past.
:21:16. > :21:20.The unions oppose it. It's not privatisation. The Scottish Futures
:21:20. > :21:25.Trust supported it. The Scottish Executive suggested it was possible
:21:25. > :21:30.too without privatising. It would release money for broadband,
:21:30. > :21:35.housing and for science. It is a big investment. �1.5 billion?
:21:35. > :21:39.is the key point. It wouldn't release �1.5. The Treasury has made
:21:39. > :21:44.it clear they will be clawing back some of that if we were to go down
:21:44. > :21:48.that road. If we were to privatise... How much would it
:21:48. > :21:51.release? They haven't said. They have not quaranteed if we go down
:21:51. > :21:58.that road, if we choose to, that they wouldn't claw back resources
:21:58. > :22:01.to London. It would seem like an own goal to Scotland to privatise
:22:01. > :22:06.Scottish Water and let... John Swinney hasn't even asked the
:22:06. > :22:10.question. Why doesn't he go to the treasury. I will help him. Ask
:22:10. > :22:16.Danny Alexander. He will tell him the truth. He is very sympathetic.
:22:16. > :22:21.There is an offer. Why not take up the offer? He has already said that
:22:21. > :22:26.he cannot guarantee that the �1.5 billion, it's in black-and-white,
:22:26. > :22:31.wouldn't be clawed back by the UK government. The Tories are saying,
:22:31. > :22:35.tackle, charge the poor, the elderly, the Lib Dems saying
:22:35. > :22:40.privatise Scottish Water. No ideas from the Labour Party. It's a good
:22:40. > :22:47.budget for jobs and growth and also supporting public sector staff as
:22:47. > :22:51.well as all the commitments around - On that issue. John Swinney isn't
:22:51. > :22:55.specifically funding an increase for council workers, is he? He is
:22:55. > :23:01.directly funding an increase for civil servants. Civil servants will
:23:01. > :23:04.get more money next April the binmen outside won't, is that fair?
:23:04. > :23:09.They might. It will be matter for local government to determine.
:23:09. > :23:13.There will be �30 million extra resources in the local government
:23:13. > :23:18.budget going forward into the next financial year. It will be a matter
:23:18. > :23:21.for local government... Can I say around local government finance,
:23:21. > :23:25.the share of spending to local government is still more generous
:23:25. > :23:29.than that which we inherited from the previous administration.
:23:29. > :23:33.are in the position where you are in opposition in Holyrood and
:23:33. > :23:37.Westminster. You can criticise all you want. Essentially, the blame
:23:37. > :23:41.for lots of the difficult decision that is are being made lie with
:23:41. > :23:48.your Labour colleagues in their 13 years of power and the economy they
:23:48. > :23:52.left Mr Swinney to inherit, Gavin Brown and Willie Rennie's parties
:23:52. > :23:55.to inherit? I don't think that is true never mind a tricks
:23:55. > :23:58.contribution to year's budget. The problems in our economy are many
:23:58. > :24:05.fold including the international recession and the problems with the
:24:05. > :24:08.banks. The problems caused by private debt, not public debt,
:24:08. > :24:11.private debt. So Labour Party had nothing to do with the size of the
:24:11. > :24:15.deficit? The biggest problem with the deficit is the private debt,
:24:15. > :24:20.not the public debt. This country has coped with levels of debt
:24:20. > :24:23.greater than we are seeing now. The size of the private debt. All these
:24:23. > :24:28.package that is were sold in America and elsewhere by banks
:24:28. > :24:33.created the difficulties we are in at the moment. I will not excuse
:24:33. > :24:36.Labour politicians, we were in power. Now, we have a minister here,
:24:36. > :24:42.John Swinney, not yourself, a minister here who does not sound to
:24:42. > :24:49.me like a man with a plan. Last year he said we would have jobs and
:24:49. > :24:54.growth, unemployment is higher than the UK average and we are in
:24:54. > :24:57.double-dip recession. We made a manifesto commitment we would have
:24:57. > :25:02.the referendum in the second-half of the election. Scotland generates
:25:02. > :25:08.more than is spend by UK Government Scotland. We look forward to the
:25:08. > :25:14.day we can spend the revenues raised in Scotland on Scotland
:25:14. > :25:18.priorities. You used to support the SNP during budget time. Have you
:25:18. > :25:24.seen enough in the draft Budget to think you are likely to support it?
:25:24. > :25:28.We will vote at Stage 3 based on what the shape of the Budget is at
:25:28. > :25:33.Stage 3, in February next year. On the strength of what I have seen so
:25:33. > :25:38.far, it's not any better, I have to say, than the Budget we voted
:25:38. > :25:41.against some nine months ago. For us to shift from that, it would
:25:41. > :25:47.have to be pretty different, Mr Swinney would have to actually
:25:47. > :25:57.deliver on the economy. What would be your red line issue on that. The
:25:57. > :26:01.
:26:01. > :26:06.Obviously, the budget is several hours old, and there are several
:26:06. > :26:10.stages to go through. But the idea of slashing housing, as he did, I
:26:10. > :26:14.think is not a good one at all. I think the idea of penalising
:26:14. > :26:19.colleges, when youth unemployment is so high, is clearly not a good
:26:19. > :26:25.idea. The idea of basically giving reductions to pretty much every
:26:25. > :26:28.department which affect the economy is equally not a good idea. Willie
:26:28. > :26:31.Rennie, anything in this budget which makes you think you will
:26:31. > :26:36.support it? We voted with the budget last year because we got
:26:36. > :26:41.some extra bonuses for colleges and housing. We want to protect those
:26:42. > :26:47.gains. But I am deeply concerned about the big cut to colleges. In
:26:47. > :26:52.fact, it is a �50 million cut. It is a significant cut, and we are
:26:52. > :26:58.deeply concerned about it. In the past, Derek Mackay, the SNP have
:26:58. > :27:01.had to do deals, but you do not have to do that anymore - are you
:27:02. > :27:06.open to persuasion? We have made it clear that we will listen to other
:27:06. > :27:11.parties. But in relation to housing, the SNP government is building more
:27:11. > :27:16.houses than our predecessor, with less resources. And we are also
:27:16. > :27:21.spending more in cash terms in colleges than our predecessor
:27:21. > :27:29.administration as well. Macintosh, are you going to back
:27:29. > :27:34.this budget? I doubt it. This budget is a sort of revisiting of
:27:34. > :27:37.last year's, trying to put right some of the wrongs of that time.
:27:37. > :27:40.But it is not actually going to reinvigorate the economy. We
:27:40. > :27:44.actually need something which is going to get the economy working
:27:44. > :27:49.again. This is actually going to lead to more public sector job
:27:49. > :27:55.losses. We will be losing binmen, care workers, nursery assistants at
:27:55. > :28:01.schools. Are you going to give us some plans, or are you just going
:28:01. > :28:04.to criticise? I have suggested that they reinstate the Edinburgh-
:28:04. > :28:08.Glasgow real improvement programme. I have said we should have a
:28:08. > :28:14.procurement programme. In Wales, they are protecting Welsh jobs, not
:28:14. > :28:16.giving them to China. Gentlemen, thank you very much for joining us.