:00:03. > :00:13.They have been wondering why they voted for him and I don't think
:00:13. > :00:16.
:00:16. > :00:21.they are tonight. Thank you very much.
:00:22. > :00:25.Tonight more on Ed Miliband's vision of One Nation. We assess the
:00:25. > :00:30.defend the Union des at the Labour Party conference. I sentence you as
:00:30. > :00:34.I am required by law to do... Television cameras in court,
:00:34. > :00:38.leading lawyers line up to say No But are the courts meeting the
:00:38. > :00:41.challenges of the digital age? Good evening. Faith, soul, spirt,
:00:41. > :00:44.vision. For a confirmed atheist, some of the language of Ed
:00:44. > :00:48.Miliband's speech bordered on the religious. And not so long ago, the
:00:48. > :00:51.use by a Labour leader of the great Tory idea of One Nation might have
:00:51. > :00:54.been considered blasphemous. But perhaps he was observing the
:00:54. > :00:57.evangelical tone of conference as it spread the word, flew the flag
:00:57. > :01:07.and beat the drum in defence of the United Kingdom. Our Westminster
:01:07. > :01:10.
:01:11. > :01:16.Correspondent Tim Reid has compiled Politicians who believe in it have
:01:16. > :01:20.long talk of reclaiming the Union flag from the far right. One
:01:20. > :01:23.Diamond Jubilee and a summer of sporting glory have provided the
:01:23. > :01:28.opportunity and Labour's fluttering conference colours show it has been
:01:28. > :01:32.grabbed with both hands. Rebuilding Britain is the theme in Manchester.
:01:32. > :01:36.Keeping the flag and Britain as One Nation is on many minds as well.
:01:36. > :01:43.Four Scottish leadership the battle lines are being drawn, painting the
:01:43. > :01:47.SNP as a party helping the Tories to reflect painful cuts. Labour are
:01:47. > :01:52.leading the fight to save the Union. The strength to overcome the
:01:52. > :01:56.challenges of our time come from binding together, not breaking
:01:56. > :02:01.apart. That is as true of the challenge we face as a nation as it
:02:01. > :02:06.is of those we face in our families, our towns and our cities.
:02:06. > :02:12.Conference, this is what separates us from the Tories and it is what
:02:12. > :02:18.separates us from the SNP. This morning delegates were bathing
:02:18. > :02:22.in Team GB's Olympic and Paralympic successes, hence so many Union
:02:22. > :02:28.flags around the conference hall. They also help to illustrate Ed
:02:28. > :02:35.Miliband's Fiennes as the attacked the SNP for invoking the Olympic
:02:35. > :02:41.spirit. I don't believe that Solidarity stops at the border. I
:02:42. > :02:46.care as much about a young person unemployed in Motherwell as I do
:02:46. > :02:51.about a young person unemployed here in Manchester. We have got
:02:51. > :02:55.common bonds. We have got deep bonds with each other. The people
:02:55. > :03:01.of Scotland and the people of the rest of the United Kingdom. Either
:03:01. > :03:07.way, if you think about the people of Scotland and the Olympic Games,
:03:07. > :03:13.they weren't cheering on just the Scottish athletes of Team GB, they
:03:13. > :03:19.were cheering on all the athletes of Team GB. As he fleshed out his
:03:19. > :03:23.One Nation theme for the party and United Kingdom, he signalled that
:03:23. > :03:27.he and Labour would be leading the campaign to defeat Scottish
:03:27. > :03:32.independence. A party that claims to be left on Centre -- of centre
:03:32. > :03:37.would not turn its back on the solidarity and a common bond of the
:03:37. > :03:43.United Kingdom. Friends, it is up to us. It is up to us. We, the
:03:43. > :03:47.Labour Party must be the people who fight defend and win the battle for
:03:47. > :03:53.the United Kingdom. The One Nation idea is a phrase borrowed from the
:03:53. > :03:57.Tories and perhaps when do the Scottish leader any favours as she
:03:57. > :04:01.tries to that of accusations of the SNP that she is a Tory, ordering a
:04:01. > :04:07.review of universal benefits like free prescriptions and have council
:04:07. > :04:10.tax freeze. It was Alex Salmond has said that Scotland did not mind
:04:10. > :04:15.Thatcher's economic policies. It was Alex Salmond who pushed through
:04:15. > :04:19.four years of Tory budgets one in government and it was Alex Salmond
:04:19. > :04:24.who cheered David Cameron into Number Ten because it suited his
:04:24. > :04:29.political argument in full knowledge of the consequences for
:04:29. > :04:32.families across Scotland. She also defended her demands for an
:04:32. > :04:37.examination of just how affordable the Scottish government's policies
:04:37. > :04:40.really are. Not everyone is going to like the solutions, that is
:04:41. > :04:45.unavoidable. I will be straight with people now about what is to
:04:45. > :04:54.come and I will be true to Labour values that we will not allow those
:04:54. > :04:57.who most need our support to pay the price for populist slogans.
:04:57. > :05:02.Joanna Lamont needs to hope that her straight-talking does not turn
:05:02. > :05:07.people away from her party. For Labour this conference says some of
:05:07. > :05:09.the mood music for the referendum campaign ahead. As pro-union
:05:09. > :05:14.politicians would ever closer against independence, they wish to
:05:14. > :05:16.persuade voters that the union and its parties know best.
:05:16. > :05:22.I'm joined from Salford by the political commentator, David
:05:22. > :05:28.Torrance, who was in the conference hall today for all those speeches.
:05:28. > :05:32.Hello, thank you for coming in. First of all, how did Ed Miliband
:05:32. > :05:37.pitches argument for Scotland staying within the UK? He was
:05:37. > :05:42.pitching it within the context of One Nation. I happen to think that
:05:42. > :05:46.stealing, not borrowing, that mantle from the Conservatives is
:05:46. > :05:51.shaping up to be a pretty shrewd move. It is not only because it
:05:51. > :05:55.helps to knit together different strands of Ed Miliband agenda,
:05:55. > :05:58.including the constitutional Strand, but also because it is a much more
:05:58. > :06:04.convincing argument coming from the Labour Party which has strong
:06:04. > :06:08.support in each part of the UK except Northern Ireland. Compared
:06:08. > :06:18.to the Conservatives who simply do not. Who do you think he is trying
:06:18. > :06:21.to reach out to and which ground is do several things. He was tried to
:06:21. > :06:24.reassure his own supporters. There were until this afternoon, and I
:06:24. > :06:29.think the speech has removed lingering doubts in some quarters,
:06:29. > :06:34.about whether Ed Miliband was up to the job. He is also trying to reach
:06:34. > :06:40.out to people who deserted Labour chiefly over the Iraq war so he was
:06:40. > :06:44.pitching it to the left. Whether that works remains to be seen. One
:06:44. > :06:49.speech does not make a strategy or an election victory but if he can
:06:49. > :06:53.keep it up, he might be on to something. Combining with that with
:06:53. > :06:59.Joe and Lamont's speech today, what do you think the message is that
:06:59. > :07:04.Scotland wants to send out to that conference? Pretty much the Jaime -
:07:04. > :07:08.- pretty much the same. They are getting act together and it is safe
:07:08. > :07:12.to say that the Scottish Labour Party has not always appeared that
:07:12. > :07:17.way. They are working together and they are developing a coherent
:07:17. > :07:22.narrative which takes in Scotland, Wales and England although Wales
:07:22. > :07:27.did not get a distinct mention this afternoon. In political terms, they
:07:27. > :07:31.are trying to recapture territory that perhaps they have let slip
:07:31. > :07:34.away. What do you think is the challenge in that ahead?
:07:34. > :07:40.challenge is sustaining it. It was one speech and it went down very
:07:40. > :07:46.well in the hall. The media tomorrow I suspect will be
:07:46. > :07:49.uniformly positive but of course there is, as ever, a disconnect
:07:49. > :07:54.between the the political bubble, the political classes, and our
:07:54. > :07:59.assessment, and what the normal voters may conflict. Very little of
:07:59. > :08:03.what Ed Miliband and the other speakers said today would get
:08:03. > :08:06.through to other voters. If they can sustain the narrative and the
:08:06. > :08:11.message over the next two years it might well have an effect. Thank
:08:11. > :08:14.you very much will. Justice, of course, is blind. So
:08:14. > :08:17.maybe that's why many who work in our courts are so opposed to
:08:17. > :08:20.allowing cameras to film criminal trials. But don't the rest of us
:08:20. > :08:23.have a right to see justice in action? Or is that just special
:08:23. > :08:27.pleading from the media? Today leading lawyers lined up to tell
:08:27. > :08:29.MSPs why the cameras should be kept out of the court room. But how does
:08:29. > :08:32.our court service deal with the growing challenges of the digital
:08:32. > :08:42.age and the growing expectations of broadcasters and their audiences.
:08:42. > :08:42.
:08:42. > :08:49.Jamie McIvor's been looking at some of the issues.
:08:49. > :08:56.Court TV. Commonplace in the United States. Rare in Scotland. Never
:08:56. > :09:01.comparable to media frenzies like the OJ Simpson trial. In April the
:09:01. > :09:08.sentencing of David Gilroy for the murder of a woman was filmed.
:09:08. > :09:14.sentence you as I am required by law to do, to life imprisonment.
:09:14. > :09:17.But the proceedings of a trial itself have never been approved for
:09:17. > :09:20.the Day broadcast. There is a debate about whether televising
:09:20. > :09:25.trials would be fair to the accused and another worry is over
:09:25. > :09:29.protection for witnesses. Today MSPs heard some of the concerns.
:09:29. > :09:32.There is a real danger that if cameras are allowed in without
:09:32. > :09:38.limitations that they will succeed in trivialising the proceedings and
:09:38. > :09:43.reduce them to the OJ Simpson... Why should it be for a television
:09:43. > :09:47.company to put together some kind of package of what it thinks
:09:47. > :09:51.happened in the trial, of what it thinks the evidence amounted to,
:09:51. > :09:55.and show it to the public at large and say, this one has been
:09:55. > :10:03.acquitted by you decide for yourselves! You have a go! You try
:10:03. > :10:07.If this is the easiest caught from Seville in in Scotland because it
:10:07. > :10:10.is not a real one, it is for is not a real one, it is for
:10:10. > :10:14.students. Away from the debate about televising courtroom
:10:14. > :10:19.proceedings, broadcasters face practical difficulties reporting
:10:19. > :10:24.trials, especially when it comes to things like CCTV pictures or
:10:24. > :10:30.photographs. Production seen in open court by members of the jury
:10:30. > :10:34.and often by anyone in the public gallery.
:10:34. > :10:39.Malcolm Webster was convicted last year of murdering his first wife
:10:39. > :10:43.and trying to kill his second. Only at the end of the trial, where
:10:43. > :10:47.broadcasters able to show images seen in court, like the band out
:10:47. > :10:51.car in which his first wife was murdered. The Malcolm Webster trial
:10:51. > :10:55.is a good example of a case where we actually got very good access to
:10:55. > :11:01.some of the key pieces of evidence that were sent to the jury in the
:11:01. > :11:06.course of the trial. We were only given those right at the end of the
:11:06. > :11:10.trial for use once he was convicted, for the background piece. Day-in,
:11:10. > :11:14.day-out, I've covered that trial and often the jury were shown
:11:14. > :11:18.something in the course of that morning, but I could not show the
:11:18. > :11:22.public. I had to come outside and describe what the jury was shown.
:11:22. > :11:26.If any member of the public could wander into court and see for
:11:26. > :11:32.themselves what the jury was being shown, there are monitors up around
:11:32. > :11:37.the court, but I was not able to show the public on television. He
:11:37. > :11:42.he but in England and Wales, it is much more clear cut. For instance,
:11:42. > :11:46.last year, John Cooper was convicted of two double murders in
:11:46. > :11:52.Wales and the 1980s. In this case, productions where even put on line
:11:52. > :11:57.for a journalist to access. might notice that if you watch some
:11:57. > :12:03.coverage from trials south of the border, they are able to show
:12:03. > :12:08.sometimes, CCTV footage that is shown to the jury that same day. We
:12:08. > :12:15.are never given productions to show at that time, it is always said the
:12:15. > :12:20.end of the trial if we get them at all. But in the internet age, what
:12:20. > :12:23.restrictions are actually workable? Earlier this year, during a in
:12:24. > :12:29.England was found guilty of contempt and jailed. She had gone
:12:29. > :12:33.on line to try to find out about the defendant. Just what rules are
:12:33. > :12:38.actually realistic? And the interests of justice be balanced
:12:38. > :12:42.against the interests of journalism in in era of myth Joerg -- era of
:12:42. > :12:47.the internet and winter are hour news?
:12:47. > :12:54.I am joined now by the QC Derek Ogg who is highly regarded in Scotland
:12:54. > :12:58.for his prosecuting and record in defence. What should happen, do you
:12:58. > :13:02.think, about access to productions? There was interested to see the
:13:02. > :13:07.piece on the Web so trial because are prosecuted that and authorise
:13:07. > :13:10.the release of productions at the end of the trial. To be honest, I
:13:11. > :13:15.would be a happy to release them during the trial, it did not make
:13:15. > :13:19.the slightest difference. Sometimes releasing production during a trial
:13:19. > :13:25.can influence the trial because witnesses who are yet to give
:13:25. > :13:29.evidence might be influenced. It could influence their memory, about
:13:29. > :13:33.the colour of the car they saw, things like that. There are some
:13:33. > :13:37.practical considerations that do not apply in all trials. Aynho
:13:37. > :13:42.there is a committee that the Crown Office has with the police and the
:13:42. > :13:48.BBC and other media outlets looking at this. Like all committees, it
:13:48. > :13:52.goes on for ever doing it. I served on it once about three years ago.
:13:52. > :13:58.Everyone chatted very nicely about English protocols, but never came
:13:58. > :14:03.up with anything. I think I would adopt English protocols. How do
:14:03. > :14:07.they vary from here in practice? allows photographic productions,
:14:07. > :14:15.physical productions that are shown in court and spoken to by witnesses
:14:15. > :14:20.to be seen on the day of the trial that the jury see it. That is
:14:20. > :14:25.allowed in England. What do you think is the advantage of that?
:14:25. > :14:29.think the advantage is just as your reporter was saying, it make sense
:14:29. > :14:33.of the story that the public who are hearing it. The broadcaster has
:14:33. > :14:37.a duty to fairly and properly represent what happened in court.
:14:37. > :14:42.That is your duty, it is difficult to do that in the modern age if so
:14:42. > :14:48.much of what is represented in court is digital or imagery all
:14:48. > :14:52.CCTV. In the olden days everything was oral evidence. You could report
:14:52. > :14:57.that very easily, but doing something which involves reference
:14:57. > :15:03.to CCTV, videos, forensic science imagery, that sort of thing, it own
:15:03. > :15:08.innate sense and is comprehensible if it can be shown. You have been
:15:08. > :15:11.sympathetic to this, that is not always the case. To the
:15:11. > :15:18.journalistic bills arbitrary to what they get access to at the
:15:18. > :15:25.moment. See you think there is a challenge needed in Scotland?
:15:25. > :15:33.think we are a bit in the dark Ages partly because there has been
:15:33. > :15:37.pressure between the media and the law. The press just want to report
:15:37. > :15:41.what is sensational and get people's juices going, get people
:15:41. > :15:48.worked up about things and that really has been a fear that lawyers
:15:48. > :15:52.have had. We feel that, to do justice, juries have to do it
:15:52. > :15:57.justice, and they should be left alone to do this as Crawley and
:15:57. > :16:02.calmly as possible. Acourt is a jury's place of work for the time
:16:02. > :16:07.they are doing the job. If the press are constantly looking for a
:16:07. > :16:11.salacious angle and another photograph, a dramatic image, then
:16:11. > :16:15.it is interfering when the jury goes home and sees all of this on
:16:15. > :16:25.TV, it interferes with their comprehension and calmness with
:16:25. > :16:30.
:16:30. > :16:36.which they approach. So where does this leave you with televising
:16:36. > :16:41.trials? I am dead against televising. I have not met one
:16:41. > :16:44.trial lawyer, I have been a prosecutor and was dead against it
:16:44. > :16:49.for years, I was a defence lawyer and dead against it as a defence
:16:49. > :16:52.lawyer. I have not what the prosecutor all defence lawyer who
:16:52. > :16:59.is for it. If the only people for it are those who have never
:16:59. > :17:03.conducted a trial. I can't see a single advantage to it. I know that
:17:03. > :17:07.it is considered modern and people can go into a court and see
:17:07. > :17:11.everything, so why can't return on the TV and see everything? If he
:17:11. > :17:15.never will because you know they are taste and decency rules meaning
:17:15. > :17:20.you cannot broadcast everything in the court. Trials where people are
:17:20. > :17:25.swearing, way you have every single sex trial, you would not be able to
:17:25. > :17:29.broadcast because of the anonymity of the complainer. He would not be
:17:29. > :17:34.able to broadcast the details of the sexual act because of taste and
:17:34. > :17:39.decency, so a huge area of trial law, representing 40% of High Court
:17:39. > :17:45.trials, you would never be able to broadcast anyway. We have to leave
:17:45. > :17:50.it there. Derek Ogg, thank you for coming in. If that is it until
:17:50. > :17:55.tomorrow. Let me give you a quick whizz through the papers. The
:17:55. > :18:00.Independent is leading with Newt CCTV puts human rights at risk. The