:00:09. > :00:12.to work out where the limits are Tonight on Newsnight Scotland:
:00:13. > :00:15.another stay of execution for the workforce at Halls of Broxburn. But
:00:15. > :00:19.tonight the factory remains threatened with closure and the
:00:19. > :00:22.loss of 1,700 jobs. A government task force is trying
:00:22. > :00:26.to save the plant. But do such government initiatives have any
:00:26. > :00:29.real effect, or are they just giving people false hope?
:00:29. > :00:33.Also tonight, the very latest on the referendum agreement or non-
:00:33. > :00:41.agreement between Edinburgh and London. Signed sealed and delivered,
:00:41. > :00:44.Good evening. 1,700 workers at the Hall's of Broxburn meat products
:00:44. > :00:48.plant heard today that there's one more chance that their factory will
:00:48. > :00:52.survive, but not at full capacity. And even then the omens don't seem
:00:52. > :00:55.too good. The task force led by the Scottish government met the parent
:00:55. > :00:59.company today, and all agreed to a few days' grace while one last
:00:59. > :01:02.attempt is made to secure a buyer for the plant as a going concern.
:01:02. > :01:04.Even if that works out, some job losses seem inevitable. Jamie
:01:04. > :01:07.McIvor reports on what we can expect of a government sponsored
:01:07. > :01:17.task force in this sort of situation. Can it offer any more
:01:17. > :01:24.
:01:24. > :01:34.A task force to help Kilmarnock face the closure of a bottling
:01:34. > :01:39.plant. To help the Murray economy survive defence cuts. It has almost
:01:39. > :01:43.become the inevitable response whenever a big job loss is looming.
:01:43. > :01:48.But our task forces sometimes simply about politicians and public
:01:48. > :01:54.agencies doing what they think voters expect of them? Knowing that
:01:54. > :01:59.odds may be stacked against them? Most companies have already been
:01:59. > :02:03.through a lot of the options in terms of future viability of the
:02:03. > :02:08.sight of that business. In many cases, it is perhaps too far down
:02:08. > :02:11.the line for something to be done. In other cases, potentially
:02:11. > :02:17.government and public bodies can provide some initiative.
:02:17. > :02:22.The axe has hung over Hall's since July. 17 and the staff are still
:02:22. > :02:29.waiting to hear if they are going to lose their jobs. -- 1,700 staff.
:02:29. > :02:37.We just feel now that we want it over and done with. It is just the
:02:37. > :02:42.waiting that is more than anything. Trying to help, yes, a task force.
:02:42. > :02:45.There's still hope that somebody might by the factory. But now the
:02:45. > :02:55.finance secretary accepts some job losses are certain.
:02:55. > :02:55.
:02:55. > :03:01.I cannot foresee all the jobs being safeguarded. I think we have to
:03:01. > :03:07.allow the discussions to take place to determined whether any further
:03:07. > :03:11.steps can be taken to ensure continuity of business.
:03:11. > :03:15.What sort of things do task forces generally do? Ideally, they would
:03:16. > :03:22.save both the jobs and the factory. But getting a private company to
:03:23. > :03:26.change its mind is a pretty tall order. Some of political -- some
:03:26. > :03:33.more practical aims might be to find a buyer for the factory. If
:03:33. > :03:43.this fails, the task force could find he -- help for those looking
:03:43. > :03:43.
:03:43. > :03:49.for jobs. I have not got any skills. My skills are in a slaughterhouse.
:03:49. > :03:52.It is not going to take me anywhere. Just looking for a job, it
:03:52. > :03:59.terrifies me. There's no doubt that government
:03:59. > :04:03.action can get results. Two years ago, this plant faced closure. The
:04:03. > :04:10.Scottish government and public agencies helped engineer a solution,
:04:10. > :04:14.and it is still open. But on other occasions, when a factory still
:04:14. > :04:18.closes, proving what different a task force made can be tricky.
:04:18. > :04:24.It can be difficult to make those measurements in terms of what would
:04:24. > :04:29.have happened had this not occurred. Nonetheless, I think we need to
:04:29. > :04:33.involve all of the various agencies, involve the workers themselves,
:04:33. > :04:43.clearly engage with them at every stage and find out from them how
:04:43. > :04:46.
:04:46. > :04:51.effective they feel the So, while task forces can do good,
:04:51. > :04:57.and certainly do no harm, do they sometimes come about simply because
:04:57. > :05:03.politicians see it is a role to try to help? But can that also risk
:05:03. > :05:05.offering false hope? I'm joined now by journalist Alf
:05:05. > :05:08.Young, who's done time on industrial development task forces
:05:08. > :05:17.on the west coast, and from Edinburgh by George Kerevan, who
:05:17. > :05:22.also writes about business and economics.
:05:22. > :05:26.First of all, just on the specific situation, do you see any hope for
:05:26. > :05:30.this? I don't really see much hope. It is
:05:30. > :05:34.a terrible thing to say when 1,700 people are going to be thrown out
:05:34. > :05:39.of work. But I think the story of why this plant has got to and where
:05:39. > :05:47.it has come from, this has been in the ruins for some time. It was
:05:47. > :05:53.part of the Grampian Food Group. There was huge expansion into a
:05:53. > :06:01.multi- billion-pound turnover but pretty thin profits, which was bank
:06:01. > :06:06.with age boss. In 2008, with the banking crash and problems with the
:06:06. > :06:15.cost of keeping food production going, they had to sell. They sold
:06:15. > :06:20.to this group in Holland, who are unusual in that they are a
:06:21. > :06:24.consortium of 18,000 farmers in South Holland. It is a co-operative
:06:24. > :06:32.organisation, probably the biggest food prices are in Europe. It has
:06:32. > :06:35.got big, modern plants all over the place. This is not a new place, it
:06:36. > :06:43.is old. Whether the company is larding it in saying how much money
:06:43. > :06:47.it is going to present or not, I suspect it is losing money. We're
:06:47. > :06:51.going to see cereal prices go up again, so the whole food chain
:06:51. > :06:57.question of getting pigs ready for slaughter, doing that, you put all
:06:57. > :07:01.these things together, you get the austerity environment where people
:07:01. > :07:05.are spending less on food and trying to cut down their household
:07:05. > :07:14.budgets, it just does not look good. This was an accident waiting to
:07:14. > :07:18.happen. George, given that gloomy analysis,
:07:18. > :07:22.obviously this task force has been trying to do something. But
:07:22. > :07:32.realistically, do you think there is anything they can do?
:07:32. > :07:36.As a package said, task forces have two project. They can take a
:07:36. > :07:42.situation to try to help the work force. That is quite legitimate if
:07:42. > :07:52.it is a major employer in a small area, as is Hall's. I remember when
:07:52. > :07:54.
:07:54. > :07:59.Danny Alexander was the minister, and put a taskforce into Motorola.
:07:59. > :08:06.That was reasonably successful. So it is positive for the work force.
:08:06. > :08:13.The other situation is trying to save the plant. I agree with the
:08:13. > :08:19.analysis and would go further. The Dutch company is a mess as well. It
:08:19. > :08:26.has just fired its chief executive. It has got the squeeze on it as
:08:26. > :08:30.well because of the rise in food stocks. They are in real trouble
:08:30. > :08:38.and they are closing plants and firing people right across Holland
:08:38. > :08:42.and Germany. But the task force are already --
:08:42. > :08:49.also a useful, whether they work or not. If you have a particular firm
:08:49. > :08:54.that plays a strategic role in your supply chain, and that is the
:08:55. > :09:04.problem for Hall's, because it is the major meat but as in Scotland.
:09:05. > :09:16.
:09:16. > :09:21.If you lose Hall's, Scottish meat If they can't save the plant, are
:09:21. > :09:24.these task forces really doing any more than what is available anyway?
:09:24. > :09:30.I think they are talking what is available anyway and focusing it in
:09:30. > :09:34.a very delicate way. I agree with George to an extent, when Motorola
:09:34. > :09:39.went out of their plant, there was a real focus on trying to get
:09:40. > :09:43.people, the jobs in that sector. In that time, they were still quite a
:09:43. > :09:48.lot of electronic assembly around in Scotland so that there were
:09:48. > :09:51.places for them to go. It may well be that there are many very highly
:09:51. > :09:57.trained people working at Halls of Broxburn, but there are also quite
:09:57. > :10:03.a few, the woman hair she said, -- the woman in the film said, she is
:10:03. > :10:09.unskilled. In that sense, this is more like an 1980s thing, people
:10:09. > :10:13.are plaint -- trained in one industrial thing. There is another
:10:13. > :10:18.factor at Halls of Broxburn, quite a significant factor of the
:10:18. > :10:20.workforce of from Eastern Europe, particularly Poland. That changes
:10:20. > :10:24.the dynamic again because an Eastern European workforce having
:10:24. > :10:29.come all this way to get a job are quite mobile in terms of looking
:10:29. > :10:34.for jobs elsewhere. Whether the directive helping you with your CV,
:10:34. > :10:37.or the kind of sectors where there is some work to be had if you can
:10:37. > :10:46.present well and interviewed and so on, that kind of thing, that is
:10:46. > :10:49.fine in some areas but if a great many of workers are mobile in the
:10:49. > :10:54.sense they are immigrants from Eastern Europe, they will naturally
:10:54. > :11:02.dissipate Again and go to other places looking for work elsewhere.
:11:02. > :11:06.The other factor here, it is the fact that we are in a recession.
:11:06. > :11:10.Because Broxburn is not this great depressed region. It is pretty much
:11:10. > :11:15.in the green-belt area, and mice -- I might be misrepresenting you, but
:11:15. > :11:18.I think yourself included, wanted to take out of the Green Zone to
:11:18. > :11:22.help this huge expansion of Edinburgh that was going on during
:11:22. > :11:29.the boom period. If it wasn't for the recession, it would be easy
:11:29. > :11:34.enough to get jobs, presumably. Maybe. It is pretty clear it the
:11:34. > :11:38.recession has put a dampener on jobs across the board, particularly
:11:38. > :11:42.Edinburgh, and Broxburn is in Edinburgh. With reasonable
:11:42. > :11:46.transport you would have thought that people would be able to get
:11:46. > :11:53.jobs quickly. Certainly the recession has put a dampener on it.
:11:53. > :11:59.However, in a sense, the way your packet was reading it was,
:11:59. > :12:05.politicians are doing this simply for pro forma, to go through the
:12:05. > :12:08.motions because it is expected of them. From the public's point of
:12:08. > :12:11.view and the workers in Halls of Broxburn, they have seen the banks
:12:11. > :12:15.being saved. I know there was a different situation and the entire
:12:15. > :12:18.economy would have collapsed if the banks would have gone. But people
:12:19. > :12:23.see government intervening anyway, so there will be pressure from
:12:23. > :12:28.people saying, you should be giving us some extra help. What was true
:12:28. > :12:35.when I was involved in economic development matters in Edinburgh
:12:35. > :12:39.council is that councils had much more responsibility and resources
:12:39. > :12:42.to do that sort of thing. It is probably better done at the local
:12:42. > :12:47.authority level than at government level. You have been working in
:12:47. > :12:50.this area for years, would you agree? It is quite hard for local
:12:50. > :12:56.of Reuters. There was a time when local authorities could do that and
:12:56. > :12:59.there was a time when we had a new towns that had development
:12:59. > :13:02.corporations who could make interventions. But in an era of
:13:02. > :13:06.council tax freeze and shrinking budgets in local authorities, I
:13:06. > :13:13.think local authorities have much less, to do anything when they are
:13:14. > :13:16.faced with a crisis like this. Another day closer to Monday, and
:13:16. > :13:19.it is still not absolutely officially certain that the first
:13:19. > :13:24.minister and the Prime Minister will shake hands on a deal to hold
:13:24. > :13:28.a referendum. Or is it? Mr Cameron told his conference that he will be
:13:28. > :13:33.up here on Monday to do just that. Meanwhile Mr Salmond made it clear
:13:33. > :13:37.that he still sees the agreement as something less than a done deal.
:13:37. > :13:47.Whether our athletes were Scottish, Welsh, English or from Northern
:13:47. > :13:48.
:13:48. > :13:53.Ireland, they drape themselves in one flag. There was of course one
:13:53. > :13:57.person who didn't like that. He is called Alex Salmond. I'm going to
:13:57. > :14:02.go and see him on Monday to sort out that referendum on independence
:14:02. > :14:05.by the end of 2014. Because there are many things are what this
:14:05. > :14:09.coalition government to do, but what could be more important than
:14:09. > :14:13.saving our United Kingdom? So let's say it, we are better together, we
:14:13. > :14:23.will rise together, and let us fight that referendum with
:14:23. > :14:24.
:14:24. > :14:27.everything I've got. There are still.. Things looked optimistic to
:14:27. > :14:31.sign an agreement next week, but these are not done until they have
:14:31. > :14:35.done. You must not pre-empt them because of couple of things are
:14:35. > :14:38.being talked through. Both sides are looking to an agreement, but
:14:38. > :14:43.the Prime Minister and myself have we can be done by next week, but as
:14:43. > :14:47.of this Wednesday, the agreement is not done. I am joined by Brian
:14:47. > :14:52.Taylor the political editor. What are these issues? It is two things,
:14:52. > :14:57.there are going to be statutes to bring about the transfer of power
:14:57. > :14:59.for the referendum. And with that they will be a referendum of -- a
:14:59. > :15:03.memorandum of understanding between the government. So the first point
:15:03. > :15:06.is to get the wording right on that memorandum to stop it is not that
:15:06. > :15:11.they don't trust each other, they just want the wording clear and
:15:11. > :15:17.defined. The bigger one of that is the issue of campaign finance, the
:15:17. > :15:20.limits that would apply to to two sides. Not just the campaigns
:15:20. > :15:24.collectively but the individual parties contributing. I think a way
:15:24. > :15:28.around that will be a compromise that allows... Of this is because
:15:28. > :15:32.presumably the SNP are worried there are more parties against
:15:32. > :15:36.independence than there are for it. A correct. If you follow the
:15:36. > :15:39.standard customary rules, parties are allowed to spend up to a
:15:39. > :15:45.proportion of the Shia of the vote they got, which puts the SNP Number
:15:45. > :15:50.One, but it puts the rivals 2, 3 and 4 with the rest nowhere. So it
:15:50. > :15:53.would be three major parties against one. The SNP will want to
:15:53. > :15:59.equalise that, I think there will be compromised was that but it will
:15:59. > :16:02.be scrutinised by an outside body, the Electoral Committee. I do not
:16:02. > :16:06.think this being an obstacle. I think the deal in all but name is
:16:06. > :16:11.done. I think in broad times, the deal is done, F think it will be
:16:11. > :16:15.signed on Monday and go ahead. think the British government sees
:16:15. > :16:21.this as another bit of business and Alex Salmond sees it as the treaty
:16:21. > :16:24.of Versailles. He sees it as the treaty between the neighbouring
:16:24. > :16:28.heads of government, but let's be clear, the UK government know
:16:28. > :16:33.exactly how important this is. They are trying to give the impression
:16:33. > :16:38.that it is workaday, it is government as usual, it is a
:16:38. > :16:42.sensible Association and just part of the business of governments.
:16:42. > :16:46.They do not want to be associated with any high-falutin razzmatazz on
:16:46. > :16:50.Monday, they want to play it down. I am not saying that Alex Salmond
:16:50. > :16:56.is trying to overplay his hand, but he is trying to stress the relative
:16:56. > :17:02.importance of it. The UK government are trying to do the opposite.
:17:02. > :17:07.issue of, it will be up to the Scottish Parliament to say that 16
:17:07. > :17:11.and 17 year-old can have the good. There are firemen -- fireworks
:17:11. > :17:17.among some in the House of Lords. If you transfer, the power to hold
:17:17. > :17:20.a referendum will be transferred to the Scottish parliament in 2014. So
:17:20. > :17:26.you transfer the associated stuff as well, the franchise, the
:17:26. > :17:31.organisation, the power to set the question which will be in the hands
:17:31. > :17:35.of Holyrood. The 16 and 17 euros, the Lordships led by Lord Forsyth
:17:35. > :17:39.were saying, in numbers, how long - - hang on a cotton picking second.
:17:39. > :17:44.This is part of a backstairs deal but it could set a precedent as
:17:44. > :17:47.they said for elections to the Commons or other elections. It was
:17:47. > :17:54.the unelected House of was discussing it, ironically! Lord
:17:54. > :18:00.Wallace, the Scottish minister said, no precedent what's the weather. A
:18:00. > :18:04.referendum is for one term only, in other words you set the terms of
:18:04. > :18:09.that referendum and it said its no precedent. The Lords do not seem
:18:09. > :18:13.convinced. If you even take Scottish elections, you can hardly
:18:13. > :18:19.say to 16 and 17 year-old, you can vote for the referendum but not the