0:00:05 > 0:00:10choice for our family and for the Tonight on Newsnight Scotland, the
0:00:10 > 0:00:12former Rangers owner Craig Whyte, silent for months, speaks out on
0:00:12 > 0:00:19why the club collapsed, who was to blame and why they did not pay
0:00:19 > 0:00:24their taxes. And the grim economic figures. The economy is shrinking
0:00:24 > 0:00:30and the unemployment rate rises while the UK average falls. Why?
0:00:30 > 0:00:33Good evening. He bought the club for �1 and then they went into
0:00:33 > 0:00:39administration. Much of the downfall of the club has been
0:00:39 > 0:00:47levelled at Craig Whyte. He has given the BBC's version of events
0:00:47 > 0:00:51in a exclusive interview. Before we see Craig Whyte, I am sure a lot of
0:00:51 > 0:00:57viewers when they watch this, they will think that it looks rather odd
0:00:57 > 0:01:02like he had just seen a ghost. Is that just him rather than this
0:01:02 > 0:01:07interview? He is an interesting character. He is not comfortable
0:01:07 > 0:01:12talking to the media and to a television camera. We will see that
0:01:12 > 0:01:17in the interview. Probably it is an indication of how desperate he was
0:01:17 > 0:01:23to get his message across. He will come across like that and people
0:01:23 > 0:01:27will be surprised. Sometimes he looks surprised and even shifty. He
0:01:27 > 0:01:32is not comfortable talking to the media, or talking to television
0:01:32 > 0:01:39cameras. But it is an indication of perhaps how desperate he was, to
0:01:39 > 0:01:45say what he had to save. What do you think he was trying to achieve?
0:01:45 > 0:01:48I am not saying he achieved it but what do you think? I genuinely
0:01:48 > 0:01:54think that Craig Whyte thinks that he will go down in the history
0:01:54 > 0:01:58books as the bogeyman of Rangers. People will point to him as the man
0:01:58 > 0:02:02that brought them to their knees. He is keen to put the record
0:02:02 > 0:02:12straight. Will he be convincing? Has he done enough? We can take a
0:02:12 > 0:02:18
0:02:18 > 0:02:23Very exciting, yes. I am pleased with the match today. Craig Whyte
0:02:23 > 0:02:27marched down Edmondson drive to a hero's welcome after months of
0:02:27 > 0:02:37uncertainty and the troubled club had finally got a buyer. But the
0:02:37 > 0:02:38
0:02:38 > 0:02:43euphoria did not last long. It is now a better fight... In February,
0:02:43 > 0:02:50administration. What happened. Time for an explanation. We can start
0:02:51 > 0:02:58with the over funding. He had been assured that the cash was not
0:02:58 > 0:03:03coming from season ticket revenue. We were selling tickets... Is there
0:03:03 > 0:03:08not something morally wrong with selling on tickets that have not
0:03:08 > 0:03:12yet been bought in order to fund the takeover of the club when he
0:03:12 > 0:03:19will not willing to put your money in? That would be like me saying
0:03:19 > 0:03:25that I want to buy Rangers, would it not? You could have done that if
0:03:25 > 0:03:33you had been interested. But there is not any difference between an
0:03:33 > 0:03:40overdraft and loans. I am using a method, like Ticketus. But is that
0:03:40 > 0:03:46not morally wrong? You are using other people's money. But how do
0:03:46 > 0:03:49you service debt? It is like servicing an overdraft and a loan.
0:03:49 > 0:03:55It is money coming in from ticket sales and their is nothing wrong
0:03:55 > 0:03:58whatsoever. By its these tickets have not yet been sold. That was
0:03:58 > 0:04:03cash in the pockets of supporters that have not yet bought their
0:04:03 > 0:04:09season tickets. You are assuming that they were going to buy these
0:04:09 > 0:04:16tickets. You are using cash still in their pockets to buy the club.
0:04:16 > 0:04:20That is like a bank with a debt facility. The club and Craig Whyte
0:04:20 > 0:04:29succumbed to administration when he failed to pay PAYE and VAT. But
0:04:29 > 0:04:34why? What happened? In September, October, when the club were out of
0:04:34 > 0:04:38the European competitions, we had been banking on the Europa League
0:04:38 > 0:04:43for part of our income. In September and October we realised
0:04:43 > 0:04:49that we were going to run out of cash. And again if you go back to
0:04:49 > 0:04:55that time, look at the outcome at a roundabout October and November,
0:04:55 > 0:05:01which at the same time was up until January, it was impossible to put
0:05:01 > 0:05:05more money into the club and raise more money from any sources. Yes,
0:05:05 > 0:05:11fine but let's wait and see what the outcome of the case is but it
0:05:11 > 0:05:18was impossible to raise any more money. That was a factor?
0:05:18 > 0:05:26decision that I was facing in October was to raise money from
0:05:26 > 0:05:31somewhere and who is going to lend and a back-up company? That was the
0:05:31 > 0:05:36first choice and the tax was going up. The tax bill was going up. If
0:05:36 > 0:05:44you're not paying PAYE and VAT, how are you expecting to be an
0:05:44 > 0:05:51attractive prospect if that is going up? The club had no money.
0:05:51 > 0:05:56tax paid and a bigger tax bill, the big tax case, from the club's
0:05:56 > 0:06:00controversial tax avoidance scheme in the 1990s. The case was so big
0:06:00 > 0:06:07in fact that Craig Whyte said that those at the very top did their
0:06:07 > 0:06:11best to plead their case. Worst case scenario, they said, �50
0:06:11 > 0:06:16million and 10 years to pay it. Then at Rangers would not give in
0:06:16 > 0:06:22to administration. That was a conversation HMRC were not prepared
0:06:22 > 0:06:25to have and I tried everything to get them to do that. Even to the
0:06:25 > 0:06:32extent of getting prominent politicians involved to speak to
0:06:32 > 0:06:42them at the highest level. Which politicians? Alex Salmond tried to
0:06:42 > 0:06:45speak to HMRC early on and we spoke to the head guy at HMRC but they
0:06:45 > 0:06:52would not come to any arrangement. Alex Salmond was pleading the
0:06:52 > 0:07:01ranges case? As other people were. They said that he was duped? Was
0:07:01 > 0:07:05he? He was not. I am not quite sure what he thinks he was duped about.
0:07:05 > 0:07:10But the agreement mentioned season- ticket funding. It mentioned the
0:07:10 > 0:07:13use of third-party funding. It goes into great detail about insolvency
0:07:13 > 0:07:20events and starting a new company and everything that would happen
0:07:20 > 0:07:24when it was set up. I did not quite understand why he said that. And to
0:07:24 > 0:07:30the new guy, Charles Green's consortium is in charge, brought in
0:07:30 > 0:07:39by the administrators. Or were they? I went out and found the
0:07:39 > 0:07:45buyer. You did? I found be by myself and nobody was coming
0:07:45 > 0:07:50forward and we went out and used our contacts in the City to put it
0:07:50 > 0:07:54across. You got Charles Green to the table? Absolutely right, yes.
0:07:54 > 0:07:58As you would expect, the administrators have hit back. They
0:07:58 > 0:08:02said the allegations are false, malicious and without foundation.
0:08:02 > 0:08:05Charles Green has released a statement saying that it had no
0:08:05 > 0:08:11previous association with Craig Whyte and it was misleading to
0:08:11 > 0:08:15suggest that he brought us in. Glasgow Rangers, founded in 1872
0:08:15 > 0:08:23and taken to the brink in 2012. The most troubling period in the club's
0:08:23 > 0:08:29history. Who is to blame? You have got to look at where the problems
0:08:29 > 0:08:34started. What caused this chain of events. The cause of this was the
0:08:34 > 0:08:39ruinous scheme which was in operation for 10 years. If it had
0:08:39 > 0:08:43not been all that, then the club would not have been sold for �1.
0:08:43 > 0:08:47The club would have been able to get proper funding. Even looking
0:08:48 > 0:08:52back to the previous board before I was involved, they could have
0:08:52 > 0:08:56battened down the hatches. They could have got rid of the debt
0:08:56 > 0:09:00themselves. They could have built up a surplus of cash to deal with
0:09:00 > 0:09:05the tax issues and beaches not to do that and buried their heads in
0:09:05 > 0:09:11the sand and did not deal with them. You think that is to blame? And the
0:09:11 > 0:09:14previous board. What part did he play in his downfall? I did not
0:09:14 > 0:09:21think I... I was, if you like driving the train when it crashed
0:09:21 > 0:09:29but I was not the one that set it on its path. But he made mistakes?
0:09:29 > 0:09:37Foreshore. You like? Might would not say that I lied. I certainly
0:09:37 > 0:09:41made mistakes. I would not necessarily say that I lied. I
0:09:41 > 0:09:47should have been more open about the funding arrangements and how
0:09:47 > 0:09:53dire things work. I deeply regret not being more open about that.
0:09:53 > 0:09:58am joined by the associate editor of the Daily Record, Jim Traynor.
0:09:58 > 0:10:04Does that improve your opinion of Craig Whyte? If you while on a
0:10:04 > 0:10:09train make sure he is not driving it, I think. I have no idea why he
0:10:09 > 0:10:14has broken cover and put himself back in the spotlight. Because
0:10:14 > 0:10:17people were not exactly forgetting about him. But now he is back in
0:10:17 > 0:10:23the headlines and the papers will be full of things after this
0:10:23 > 0:10:31programme. I do not understand. You have to ask what his agenda is. Why
0:10:32 > 0:10:36is he coming back into prominence at this time? I find it astonishing.
0:10:36 > 0:10:42Some of the things he said, the ABT era comes down to David Murray. But
0:10:42 > 0:10:48it was not that and the use of that scheme that closed Rangers. It was
0:10:48 > 0:10:56because Craig Whyte had a fraudulent -- flawed business plan.
0:10:56 > 0:11:01That is why they had to be put into administration. The argument was
0:11:01 > 0:11:04that actually David Murray and his mates set the train in motion. If
0:11:04 > 0:11:10they had not known something was wrong it would not have been sold
0:11:10 > 0:11:13to him for �1. The bank will tonight and David Murray will do
0:11:13 > 0:11:18night but I did not think that there was much doubt that there was
0:11:18 > 0:11:22pressure to sell but he did not have to sell. David Murray is
0:11:22 > 0:11:26culpable if the tax case was against Rangers. It would not
0:11:26 > 0:11:29matter in the end anyway because that company does not exist and the
0:11:29 > 0:11:35Inland Revenue will not get any money anyway because that company
0:11:35 > 0:11:40has closed. The ranges debt was down for about �18 million at the
0:11:40 > 0:11:46time it was given to Craig Whyte. - - Rangers Football Club debt. They
0:11:46 > 0:11:49were comfortable with that debt. Craig Whyte immediately, the debt
0:11:49 > 0:11:59started to go back up and David Murray of course is comfortable
0:11:59 > 0:12:01
0:12:01 > 0:12:08with ABT. -- culpable. There has been a lot of speculation about the
0:12:08 > 0:12:14tendencies... I think that has been... By but he did get an easy
0:12:14 > 0:12:19ride. David Murray was criticised. I think that there is a myth
0:12:19 > 0:12:23suggesting he was never criticise. He went through a period where he
0:12:23 > 0:12:26would not speak to people and in my case for four years when I was
0:12:26 > 0:12:33previously at the Herald because I had written something he did not
0:12:33 > 0:12:37like. At not get an easy ride. Quite a lot of fans are quite happy
0:12:37 > 0:12:43to say that nobody bothered Rangers football club. It is actually a
0:12:43 > 0:12:49myth. David Murray was criticised. You could criticise him as well for
0:12:49 > 0:12:5512 years for running out of debt. That was ridiculous. �12 million
0:12:55 > 0:13:05for one player. Absolute scandal. But that debt was reduced to �80
0:13:05 > 0:13:13
0:13:13 > 0:13:18Lying and misleading people? It's strange, I asked Craig several
0:13:18 > 0:13:23times about the ticket deal. Denied it. I asked him several times about
0:13:23 > 0:13:27not paying PAYE, denied. It everything was fine. So, I mean,
0:13:27 > 0:13:32Craig would probably deny I asked him these questions. I'm sure I
0:13:32 > 0:13:36wasn't the only one. I just find it... It's difficult to, you know,
0:13:36 > 0:13:42you listen to Craig, you talk to him, he is plausible. He always has
0:13:42 > 0:13:47an answer. But, you know, you think - why on earth would you buy a club
0:13:47 > 0:13:53that no-one else is touching because of the potential tax
0:13:53 > 0:13:59liability. Why would you buy it and not have enough money to run it.
0:13:59 > 0:14:04want your view on the other claim by Craig Whyte that he introduced
0:14:04 > 0:14:08Mr Greene to the club, Mr Greene is telling everyone that it is not
0:14:08 > 0:14:15true. It certainly isn't a fair representation of what happened?
0:14:15 > 0:14:19is saying that, Charles Greene is saying his capital came to him and
0:14:19 > 0:14:23Ahmad came to him and said, would you get the deal through, run the
0:14:23 > 0:14:29club and get it stable again. He says that. Craig Whyte is saying,
0:14:29 > 0:14:33no, he introduced him to Duff and Phelps. Where he is slightly
0:14:33 > 0:14:38correct. He probably introduced to one of the joint administrators. By
0:14:38 > 0:14:42then Charles Greene was already in place. We will have to leave it
0:14:42 > 0:14:45there. Thank you very much. Today has seen dismal news on the economy.
0:14:45 > 0:14:50There has been a slew of bag figures, unemployment is up,
0:14:50 > 0:14:53employment is down, Scotland is still in reetion. Scottish
0:14:53 > 0:14:57unemployment has been running close to the same levels as the rest of
0:14:57 > 0:15:02the UK. But over the summer the number of Scots seeking work rose
0:15:02 > 0:15:07by 7,000 over the three months to the end of August. That is 8.2%.
0:15:07 > 0:15:13The rest of the UK has faired better. 50,000 fewer people are
0:15:13 > 0:15:17looking for work. That is a rate of 7.9%. Scotland's economic woes have
0:15:17 > 0:15:23largely matched those of the wider UK. In the first quarter of this
0:15:23 > 0:15:29year, GDP fell 0.2%. While new figures from April to June show it
0:15:29 > 0:15:37fell by 0.4%. So in the four quarters from the middle of last
0:15:37 > 0:15:40year to now Scotland's economy stood still. I'm joined now by the
0:15:40 > 0:15:46economist Professor David Bell of Stirling University. Something is
0:15:46 > 0:15:51happening here, isn't it? Frankly, none of it looks good? Doesn't look
0:15:51 > 0:15:54that good. I hope it's temporary. It may be something to do with
0:15:55 > 0:15:59something likelet Olympics. That the rest of the UK seems to have
0:16:00 > 0:16:03moved ahead a little bit over the summer because we are comparing -
0:16:03 > 0:16:07When you look at the regional figures, what struck me, actually
0:16:07 > 0:16:14the biggest falls in unemployment were in places like the north-west
0:16:14 > 0:16:18of England, Yorkshire, it wasn't London? Yes. It isn't London. The
0:16:18 > 0:16:25start of the recession since 2008 Scotland did relatively well for
0:16:25 > 0:16:29three years. It's starting to look as though it's dragging its... Many
0:16:29 > 0:16:33of the indicators are looking that little bit worse than the rest of
0:16:33 > 0:16:38the UK. That was my next question. In one of tomorrow's newspapers you
0:16:38 > 0:16:43argue that the unemployment rate in Scotland and the UK is starting to
0:16:44 > 0:16:47diverge. I wonder if we have enough data to say that for sure? I mean
0:16:47 > 0:16:54unemployment now has been high here for a couple of months, it was
0:16:54 > 0:16:59lower here for four or five months and above before that. Have we got
0:16:59 > 0:17:04enough data to say it's a trend? I think this is a tentative
0:17:04 > 0:17:08conclusion at the moment. For six months, or just the last few months,
0:17:08 > 0:17:12isn't enough to establish whether this is the way we are going. It
0:17:12 > 0:17:16doesn't look particularly good because, as I say, early on in the
0:17:16 > 0:17:21recession, Scotland did establish quite a margin of lower
0:17:21 > 0:17:26unemployment rate than the UK as a whole. Right. I also... I'm curious,
0:17:26 > 0:17:32I always do rather question this idea, comparing Scotland to the UK
0:17:32 > 0:17:35average, it seems to me, is it the argument more informative to look,
0:17:35 > 0:17:40without saying Scotland isn't a nation, look at it compared with
0:17:40 > 0:17:47other regions of the UK? If you do that, you find that the rate of
0:17:47 > 0:17:51unemployment here is actually still lower than many other areas,
0:17:51 > 0:17:54including London? Yes. Central London has a high unemployment rate.
0:17:55 > 0:18:01Scotland is on many indicators around the middle. About bang on
0:18:01 > 0:18:06the average, isn't it? It is. That is correct. It has been for some
0:18:07 > 0:18:11time. Right. The other worrying thing though, I wonder if the GDP
0:18:11 > 0:18:16figures tend to get to that as well, if there is a trend being
0:18:16 > 0:18:21established here, it's might be that Scotland is recovering less
0:18:21 > 0:18:27quickly? Yes. Yeah. What seems to be happening, in terms of output,
0:18:27 > 0:18:33is that Scotland hasn't been hit as hard since the start of the
0:18:33 > 0:18:37recession in production, in construction, but has been hit
0:18:37 > 0:18:42particularly hard in the service sector and the finance services.
0:18:42 > 0:18:47Scotland seems to have done relatively badly in terms of its
0:18:47 > 0:18:54"government" output, which has hardly changed since the beginning
0:18:54 > 0:18:58of the recession, but in the UK, as a whole, apparently it's grown by
0:18:58 > 0:19:01around 5%. Which I find just difficult to believe. Right. There
0:19:01 > 0:19:06is no obvious statistical thing like bfrts are included in the
0:19:06 > 0:19:10figures for the UK, but not in Scotland? What they are trying to
0:19:10 > 0:19:15measure is the output of the government sector and looking at
0:19:15 > 0:19:18things like through put in the health service, the quality and
0:19:18 > 0:19:22quantity of qualifications coming through schools. It's not
0:19:22 > 0:19:26absolutely clear to me that England has established a huge advantage
0:19:26 > 0:19:30relative to Scotland. You think there might be something wrong than
0:19:30 > 0:19:32the figures? I'm a little concerned that might be part of the
0:19:32 > 0:19:37explanation why apparently Scotland's output has fallen more
0:19:37 > 0:19:41than the rest of the UK. Why should there be this particular problem?
0:19:41 > 0:19:45We should stress here that, in the manufacturing industry production
0:19:45 > 0:19:51has fallen, your argue tuplet has fallen by about the same across the
0:19:51 > 0:19:56UK? Yes. Not particular about here, what is particular about here is
0:19:56 > 0:19:59this business of services. Is there an explanation about that? In the
0:19:59 > 0:20:04first instance the financial services sector, particularly
0:20:04 > 0:20:10banking, was hit harder here and has recovered in London, in
0:20:10 > 0:20:14particular, quite strongly since. That clearly is one driver of
0:20:14 > 0:20:20better performance in the service sector than the rest of the UK.
0:20:20 > 0:20:24There is this anomaly, I think, with government, which constitutes
0:20:24 > 0:20:2822% of total output. It's very important. Thank you very much. A
0:20:28 > 0:20:34important. Thank you very much. A look at tomorrow's front pages: the
0:20:34 > 0:20:40Scotsman. Call for SNP to put off divisive NATO vote at its
0:20:40 > 0:20:45conference. Leading MSP wants a party referendum on it, it says.
0:20:45 > 0:20:51The Scottish Daily Mail. 100 Scots dumped on jobs junkpile every day,
0:20:51 > 0:20:57that is its take on the unemployment figures. The Daily