:00:09. > :00:12.worrying. The most obvious solution Tonight on Newsnight Scotland, the
:00:12. > :00:17.poorest women in this country will spend around a third of their lives
:00:17. > :00:23.in bad health. Why does Scotland have the worst health inequalities
:00:23. > :00:26.in Western Europe? And one of Scotland's most
:00:26. > :00:32.successful businessmen, billionaire Sir Ian Wood, talks to us about oil,
:00:32. > :00:40.Aberdeen and the independence debate.
:00:40. > :00:43.A really would like it to focus away from the emotion. This has a
:00:44. > :00:46.massive impact on our children and grandchildren. Good evening. The
:00:47. > :00:49.figures are shocking, the poorest in our society can expect to live
:00:49. > :00:53.shorter lives than their well-off neighbours and to spend many more
:00:53. > :00:56.years in ill health. The difference between rich and poor is greater
:00:56. > :00:59.here than in the rest of the UK, and among the worst in the
:00:59. > :01:06.developed world. Successive Scottish governments have had
:01:06. > :01:12.social justice as a stated aim, yet little progress has been made.
:01:12. > :01:16.Jamie McIvor reports. This seems to be a really
:01:16. > :01:20.persistent problem. It does, because for all the efforts we have
:01:20. > :01:25.seen for many years to reduce inequality, the blunt fact remains
:01:25. > :01:30.that people -- live in the most deprived parts of Scotland will
:01:30. > :01:33.have shorter lights and so poor health for far longer. Let's take a
:01:33. > :01:39.look at some figures. The poorest men in Scotland, typically Willmott
:01:39. > :01:43.be in good health the 21 years before they die. -- will not be.
:01:43. > :01:48.The most deprived women will not be in good health and 25 years before
:01:48. > :01:53.they die. That is around a third of their lives. At least deprived men
:01:53. > :01:58.and women not only live for far longer, but able least up a poor
:01:58. > :02:02.health for about 12 years before they die. Some of the worst life
:02:02. > :02:08.expectancy rates are in parts of the East End of Glasgow, where the
:02:08. > :02:10.Commonwealth Games will be held. And also where the Chris Hoy
:02:10. > :02:15.velodrome has just opened. The hope is that the Games will do a lot to
:02:15. > :02:19.help the area in the Long Term, and part of that legacy could be higher
:02:19. > :02:29.standards of health. Earlier today, I went to the velodrome and the
:02:29. > :02:32.
:02:32. > :02:35.surrounding area to sound out It is Scotland's newest world-class
:02:35. > :02:40.sports facility. The Kris Boyd velodrome will be at the centre of
:02:40. > :02:43.the action during the Commonwealth Games. But it is part of a bigger
:02:43. > :02:48.sports complex that aims to be right at the centre of the local
:02:48. > :02:53.community. Tries to get everyone involved in it as much as possible.
:02:53. > :02:57.Anyone out there that is looking to get fit, get involved in it.
:02:57. > :03:04.message here is that sport and exercise are for everyone, young
:03:04. > :03:08.and old, rich or poor. Last month I came back from holiday, and a bit
:03:08. > :03:14.of holiday we'd get put on so you need to go to the gym. I had a few
:03:14. > :03:20.pals who just sat around all day. Do you think not exercising for
:03:20. > :03:26.some people, is a thing to do with poverty or deprivation? No, I think
:03:26. > :03:33.it is about convenience. I have started going to the gym a lot more.
:03:33. > :03:39.It is just about having the facilities nearby. So, why our
:03:39. > :03:43.overall standards of help solo in some deprived areas? As -- is
:03:43. > :03:47.deprivation alone to blame or is it more complicated? Some easiest ways
:03:47. > :03:53.of improving the health do not cost money and might save you cash. Pins
:03:53. > :03:58.like giving up smoking, drinking less and of course, exercising more.
:03:58. > :04:01.-- things like. It costs nothing but time and effort or stopped
:04:01. > :04:06.growing parts of the East End of Glasgow, the life expectancy is
:04:06. > :04:13.amongst the lowest in the Western world. Is this the lasting legacy
:04:13. > :04:17.of industrial decline? Out think it is down to long term unemployment.
:04:17. > :04:22.Most of the chaps have always worked in the shipyards, they had -
:04:22. > :04:32.- they are not there any more. East End, they have nothing to look
:04:32. > :04:32.
:04:32. > :04:37.forward to. They are all decent people in the East End of Glasgow.
:04:37. > :04:44.They try their best but there is nothing there for them. The jobs
:04:44. > :04:54.they get are on minimum wage. because people cannot get jobs?
:04:54. > :04:56.
:04:56. > :05:02.should not let yourself. Tell me where all the firms are awaited.
:05:02. > :05:09.But Glasgow is not Britain's on the post-industrial city. The gap of
:05:09. > :05:12.life expectancy between rich and poor Fido is that the failure on
:05:13. > :05:18.the part of the Government's past and present all have certain
:05:18. > :05:22.factors been peculiar to Scotland and need to be tackled?
:05:22. > :05:25.I am -- I'm joined now by Dr Andrew Fraser, who is Director of Public
:05:25. > :05:31.Health Science at NHS Health Scotland, the body charged with
:05:31. > :05:36.improving the country's health. Good evening. It is a sad reality,
:05:36. > :05:41.health inequalities here are among the widest in Western Europe. We
:05:41. > :05:46.face a huge long-term challenge. That is true and it has not got
:05:46. > :05:52.their just slowly, it has got their over several generations. But we
:05:52. > :05:58.were not always like this. Until the 1970s, statistics were much
:05:58. > :06:05.more equally... Or the distribution of help was much more equally
:06:05. > :06:08.spread. What is driving it? There is no one aspect to this which you
:06:08. > :06:14.can put your finger round and say, that is the problem, then there is
:06:14. > :06:19.a solution. I think culture, we live with inequalities of power and
:06:19. > :06:25.influence and means. I think perhaps, past national politics in
:06:25. > :06:30.the way local culture or local civic leadership has responded to
:06:30. > :06:35.that, and that may in part explain why we differ in the west central
:06:35. > :06:40.Scotland from Liverpool and Manchester. But I think from the
:06:40. > :06:47.report on which this piece is based, the gradient is beginning to stop
:06:47. > :06:52.rising. You will see in some areas, that the inequality gap is
:06:52. > :06:58.narrowing. I would take for instance, low birth weight amongst
:06:58. > :07:03.newborns. If that is narrowing, let's look at why it might be
:07:03. > :07:07.successful. Better educated women, it is a clear link between young
:07:07. > :07:11.women's educational levels and subsequent reproductive health.
:07:11. > :07:15.Antenatal services may be more effective, reaching people most in
:07:15. > :07:21.need of support while pregnant. Or the general health of young women,
:07:21. > :07:26.which maybe a feature of their own decision-making, but also their
:07:26. > :07:32.culture, the community, the family, their means. So there are areas
:07:32. > :07:36.where we may be improving, and I think this report me Mark a
:07:36. > :07:44.stalling of the generals like we have seen until now. One week
:07:44. > :07:49.because on some of the symptoms of ill health, things like smoking,
:07:49. > :07:54.obesity, bad diet, are these are a sideshow, are these irrelevant to
:07:54. > :08:00.the debate? They are relevant but they have the end points of
:08:00. > :08:06.decisions. There are decisions based not necessarily on
:08:06. > :08:12.individuals -- individual conscious and rational decisions. There are
:08:12. > :08:15.influences on them by the committee and the family, and particularly it
:08:15. > :08:21.appears, especially young people are very influenced by what their
:08:21. > :08:25.friends are doing. You come across people who have very few
:08:25. > :08:30.opportunities who have never really understood that there are choices
:08:30. > :08:36.to be made between going into unemployment, as almost a career,
:08:36. > :08:41.or other options in their lives. That is a product of generations of
:08:41. > :08:46.low aspiration at a local level. Not necessarily their inherent
:08:46. > :08:50.inability, it is what they see around them. When we talk about ill
:08:50. > :08:56.health in Scotland, we quite often get big ticket policy programmes
:08:56. > :09:00.from government, we have at a ban on smoking in public places from a
:09:00. > :09:04.previous Labour or Lib Dem coalition, now we have plans for
:09:04. > :09:14.minimum pricing for alcohol, again, to focus on ill-health. Are those
:09:14. > :09:20.
:09:20. > :09:24.Those a relevant. Transport policies are also relevant. --
:09:24. > :09:28.those are relevant. How many people can get on to their bikes, for
:09:28. > :09:34.instance, and cycle to work, which depends on their ability to get
:09:34. > :09:40.hold of a bicycle. Or their confidence that work. Maybe
:09:40. > :09:45.separation from road traffic, which puts them at risk. The separation
:09:45. > :09:52.of bicycles from motorised traffic is an important instance. There is
:09:52. > :09:57.evidence, if you separate that, you will get more people on bicycles.
:09:57. > :10:02.That is persuading people to take more exercise. It is also designing
:10:02. > :10:07.as City, the environment in which we are living. As far as changing
:10:07. > :10:14.people's lifestyles, persuading people who do not have a healthier
:10:14. > :10:19.lifestyle to adopt one, how do we persuade people? Is it possible on
:10:19. > :10:24.a one-to-one basis? Yes, but you have to understand the culture and
:10:24. > :10:30.context. It is one thing to say smoking is expensive and bad for
:10:30. > :10:36.you. 50% of people who smoke will die of smoking-related diseases. It
:10:36. > :10:42.is another thing to say you like to take a better half. And say this in
:10:42. > :10:49.a way that attracts them to choose an alternative up. It is another
:10:49. > :10:56.thing to put something in its place. On that basis, looking at obesity,
:10:56. > :11:02.does attacks on sugar, for example, -- does placing taxes on sugar, one
:11:02. > :11:06.example, have an impact? You have to include the knowledge that there
:11:06. > :11:14.are other types of food that an enjoyable, nourishing, pleasant to
:11:14. > :11:20.eat. The problem, I suppose, regarding that is persuading people
:11:20. > :11:22.to save themselves from these sorts of things. That can be unpopular.
:11:22. > :11:28.Is their political will to challenge people to change their
:11:28. > :11:36.ways? I think there is a lot of discussion about the inequalities
:11:36. > :11:43.issue. I think is. The policy we have run with for five years was
:11:43. > :11:46.sailed internationally as ground- breaking -- was celebrated
:11:46. > :11:51.internationally as ground-breaking and helping inequalities. Now we
:11:51. > :11:57.know more. We know what works better. We know, with the passage
:11:57. > :12:02.of time, it is probably not enough. We are coming forward to ministers
:12:02. > :12:08.about what is next to do. I was going to ask about that. There
:12:08. > :12:13.appears to be a shift in policy to an acid based approach, focusing on
:12:13. > :12:18.empowerment of the individual. -- an approach based on assets. We
:12:18. > :12:23.know that a top-down approach might not work. It is not the whole
:12:23. > :12:29.solution. Health based policies you have mentioned already, such as
:12:29. > :12:32.tobacco and alcohol, are crucial in turning the tide. One of the worst
:12:33. > :12:38.statistics is inequality between Poole and rich of alcohol related
:12:38. > :12:43.mortality. -- between poor people and rich people. Alcohol is a major
:12:43. > :12:47.factor in driving down the health record. The need to reverse that.
:12:48. > :12:53.That is a policy, but at individual and community level, there are
:12:53. > :12:58.other things to do. We have to work at every level to make inroads on
:12:58. > :13:03.the help record and our record of very steep gradients between the
:13:03. > :13:06.worst off and best of in terms of health and inequalities. It sounds
:13:06. > :13:14.like this is a generational battle, a struggle that will take literally
:13:14. > :13:17.decades? Yes, but we cannot hang around and wait. It is slightly
:13:17. > :13:24.encouraging to have a report that suggests we had halted the gradient
:13:24. > :13:28.getting any steeper. But we need to act now to turn that story around
:13:28. > :13:32.to narrow the gap, lessen the gradient, giving people
:13:32. > :13:37.opportunities through policy and knowledge and personal experience
:13:37. > :13:42.of better alternatives to improve the nation's record and narrow
:13:42. > :13:46.these health inequalities. We shall leave it there. Dr Andrew Fraser,
:13:46. > :13:50.thank you. One of Scotland's most successful
:13:50. > :13:55.businessmen ever will step aside from his company tomorrow. Sir Ian
:13:55. > :13:59.Wood is retiring as chairman of the Wood Group. He was Chief Executive
:13:59. > :14:04.before that. His company operates engineering support in the oil
:14:05. > :14:08.industry, reading it from a moderately successful family
:14:08. > :14:12.company in the 1960s to a multi- million-pound concern offering oil
:14:12. > :14:17.industry services across the globe, but still lead from Aberdeen.
:14:17. > :14:22.Douglas Fraser has been speaking to Sir Ian Wood, who began by
:14:22. > :14:28.explaining that the North Sea industry still faces obstacles.
:14:28. > :14:33.One of the few regrets I half from Mike involvement in oil and gas,
:14:33. > :14:41.with many -- one of the few regrets I have from its involvement in oil
:14:41. > :14:46.and gas, it is realising what a major impact this had. It is �48
:14:46. > :14:50.billion per year to balance of payments. From us far back as you
:14:50. > :14:57.can remember, in terms of contribution to UK industrial
:14:57. > :15:02.activity, oil and gas has been week ahead of any other industry.
:15:02. > :15:09.400,000 jobs, staggering figures. We have produced 41 billion barrels.
:15:09. > :15:17.Looking ahead, we could still produce another 25 billion. At $100
:15:17. > :15:21.per barrel, that is 2000 $500 billion. The figures are staggering.
:15:21. > :15:26.If we do not get it right, we produce 50% of that. That is
:15:26. > :15:32.staggering, losing billions of dollars of economic contribution to
:15:32. > :15:38.the UK. The figures are huge. That says there is still a massive a
:15:38. > :15:42.mind of contribution to come. A huge prospect. And we really have -
:15:42. > :15:46.- really need UK Government focusing on maximising what is
:15:46. > :15:51.still to come from the North Sea. That is the key factor, then
:15:51. > :15:56.recognising that. They are beginning to recognise that, a step
:15:56. > :16:01.change in the past few years. It is now focused on understanding how we
:16:01. > :16:08.get the industry to invest in 5-10 years. If we do not, we lose
:16:08. > :16:14.infrastructure. You remain rooted in Aberdeen. You are passionate
:16:14. > :16:18.about that city. Is that because it is under rated by outsiders?
:16:18. > :16:23.spend far too much time internalising in Scotland. We
:16:23. > :16:28.produce all kinds of internal disagreements, spend lots of time
:16:28. > :16:35.device that way, when we should find common ground. -- spent lots
:16:36. > :16:41.of time divided against each other. My concern is what happens next. I
:16:41. > :16:46.mean in the next 20-30 years' time. My roots in Aberdeen mean that my
:16:46. > :16:50.father's father, his father, their father, fished in Aberdeen. The
:16:50. > :16:57.last thing I would like to see his future generations looking back and
:16:57. > :17:03.thinking, that was -- that generation did nicely, what was
:17:03. > :17:09.left for us? There was a �15 million offer for a city centre
:17:09. > :17:13.regeneration. That was mired in controversy. It seems to be now
:17:13. > :17:20.defunct. What has that controversy told us about the mindset of the
:17:20. > :17:24.city? I think what it says is it became political, it should never
:17:25. > :17:29.have become political. There is a view that somehow this is business
:17:29. > :17:33.imposing its bill on the city. That the Labour Party in the city
:17:33. > :17:40.campaigned heavily against it. I do not know why it is a political
:17:40. > :17:44.issue. You have become, by any standard, fabulously rich. You had
:17:44. > :17:50.about �1.2 billion according to one report. How much have you been
:17:50. > :17:54.motivated by money? People will be cynical that my answer is I was
:17:54. > :17:58.never motivated by money. My prime interest is business development
:17:59. > :18:04.and achievement. Absolutely prime interest. For example, I will spend
:18:04. > :18:09.a lot of time in the next few years on philanthropic activities, giving
:18:09. > :18:18.away money, getting every bit of satisfaction and achievement from
:18:18. > :18:21.bat as I did -- from that as I did from my other work. My interest is
:18:21. > :18:26.getting people and opportunities together, getting strategy right,
:18:26. > :18:31.seeing its successful. We have a vote in Scotland on independence in
:18:31. > :18:39.autumn 2014. Do you think that prospect of independence could help
:18:39. > :18:47.or hinder Scotland? And business and the economy in Scotland?
:18:47. > :18:55.views on independence, it is incredibly political and emotional.
:18:55. > :18:58.I would like to see a lot more rational applied to it, genuine
:18:58. > :19:05.attempts made to look at the benefits of continuing the union,
:19:05. > :19:09.with all the benefits and none benefits, as well as those of an
:19:09. > :19:15.independent Scotland. I have huge concern that part of the debate,
:19:15. > :19:23.not a huge putt, maybe not the political but, but do we like
:19:23. > :19:33.England? -- not a huge part. I am completely against that. If you ask
:19:33. > :19:42.me how many people we employ an English or Scottish, I do not know.
:19:42. > :19:47.We must finish up making this decision for the right reason. One
:19:47. > :19:50.concern is we must ensure that, taking a business like oil or gas,
:19:50. > :19:56.that the uncertainty caused by the debate over the next couple of
:19:56. > :20:03.years does not cause problems with investment. We do not want that
:20:03. > :20:07.night. If you start talking about how to divide up the oil and gas
:20:07. > :20:13.reserves between England and Scotland, talking about what tax
:20:13. > :20:17.regime we would have, complex discussions about decommissioning,
:20:17. > :20:20.what would the Scottish Government do? Likely to bowl sides would be
:20:20. > :20:25.too pleased up this debate in such a way that you do not cause a lot
:20:25. > :20:32.of uncertainty or it will damage the industry. -- might lead to both
:20:32. > :20:38.sides would be. I would like it focused as far as possible away
:20:38. > :20:41.from emotions and focusing on the rational. This will have a massive
:20:41. > :20:47.impact on our children or grandchildren. Well you see which
:20:47. > :20:54.way you will vote? If I can make a right contribution, I will at the
:20:54. > :21:02.time. But not yet? Sir Ian Wood with Douglas Fraser.
:21:02. > :21:08.Now to have a look at tomorrow's front pages. Ambitious new targets
:21:08. > :21:16.set for renewable energy. Under different take on that, left
:21:16. > :21:21.swinging in the wind. The UK Energy Minister slammed the brakes on
:21:21. > :21:26.endless expansion. And New York's devastation breaks
:21:26. > :21:31.American hearts. That is all from me. If you want to see the