:00:10. > :00:13.that is localism. Feng keen. -- Tonight on Newsnight Scotland:
:00:13. > :00:15.A letter from America. The mighty Washington Post weighs into the
:00:15. > :00:19.independence debate and concludes it'd be a bad thing...for the
:00:19. > :00:25.United States. And derelict, depressed and down-
:00:25. > :00:28.at-heel? What's the point of our Good evening.
:00:29. > :00:31.Right in the middle of the biggest storm in America history, one of
:00:31. > :00:33.the country's best known newspapers stepped into the biggest storm in
:00:33. > :00:35.Scottish political history. The Washington Post, famous for
:00:36. > :00:39.Woodward, Bernstein and Bradlee, brought down President Nixon and
:00:39. > :00:49.gave the word Watergate to the world's media. And now it's having
:00:49. > :00:49.
:00:49. > :00:53.a go at Scotland's constitutional And the Washington Post yesterday
:00:53. > :00:57.weighed into the debate on independence under the heading,
:00:57. > :01:02.Scottish independence is part of a worrying trend. Although the
:01:02. > :01:06.article is an editorial, it falls short of their fabled standards of
:01:06. > :01:10.objective reporting. It no stately says the SNP's policy is to leave
:01:10. > :01:14.NATO. It argues that Scottish independence would weaken the UK
:01:14. > :01:19.and therefore be bad for the USA and the world. There's a worrying
:01:19. > :01:23.trend, it says, towards fragmentation in Europe, mentioning
:01:23. > :01:28.Catalonia, Flanders and Venice. European state let's, they say,
:01:28. > :01:31.would be like small US states, they would command disproportionate
:01:31. > :01:36.influence. This is an opinion piece, but given the seniority of the
:01:36. > :01:39.Washington Post's editorial board, we can assume a America's foreign
:01:39. > :01:44.affairs and defence strategists are keeping an eye on Scottish politics
:01:44. > :01:48.more closely than in the past. When that news journalists were covering
:01:48. > :01:52.the signing of the referenda in agreement, the end of Thet -- they
:01:52. > :02:00.ended their factual coverage by quoting third subject -- satirical
:02:00. > :02:03.To discuss that, I'm joined by Jeffrey Kofman, who's the London
:02:03. > :02:13.correspondent of the ABC network. And in our Washington DC studio is
:02:13. > :02:14.
:02:14. > :02:19.Jennifer Erickson, a former special adviser to Alex Salmond.
:02:19. > :02:25.Does this editorial strike you as what Washington would rather think
:02:25. > :02:31.about this issue? It does. Let's be clear, it has not a topic that gets
:02:31. > :02:34.a lot of attention in the United States. The logic of it and while
:02:34. > :02:38.there may be a couple of errors that you've noted, the broad
:02:38. > :02:42.strokes of that editorial make complete sense for American foreign
:02:42. > :02:46.policy. On one hand, in principle American follow-up -- foreign
:02:46. > :02:54.policy believes people have a right to self-determination, but in
:02:54. > :02:58.practice the UK, as an entity, is the most important ally the US has.
:02:58. > :03:03.The special relationship that dates back to the Second World War and
:03:03. > :03:09.before, the power of the UK military, the reliability, the
:03:09. > :03:13.trust, all of that... The UK is key to American and Western foreign
:03:13. > :03:20.policy in a way that no other country, no other relationship can
:03:20. > :03:26.be compared. It is very basic for US foreign policy that a strong and
:03:26. > :03:30.unified United Kingdom is what works and American interests and
:03:30. > :03:34.that is what that a tutorial -- editorial says to me. You perhaps
:03:34. > :03:39.have different views, Jennifer, above all what the policy of the US
:03:39. > :03:44.ought to be. Do you agree with Geoffrey that as a matter of fact,
:03:44. > :03:48.that is likely to be the attitude of official Washington? I don't.
:03:48. > :03:52.You started at the top of the peace talking about how there were
:03:52. > :03:56.factual errors, it is riddled with factual errors. It is a very
:03:56. > :04:02.curious piece, it's surprising, and I don't expect it to carry much
:04:02. > :04:07.weight. Which other factual errors did you spot? You started off with
:04:07. > :04:13.the point at about the SNP's position on NATO. Other errors
:04:13. > :04:17.about a oil revenues, a lot of casting about of fears. It reads in
:04:17. > :04:24.many ways like it was written by the no campaign, which is
:04:25. > :04:28.interesting. What is important here it is the special relationship.
:04:28. > :04:33.There's a strong relationship between the United States and
:04:33. > :04:38.Scotland, between the United States and the rest of the UK. It is
:04:38. > :04:42.important to go back to first principles. These ideas of self
:04:42. > :04:46.determination, of independence itself, have huge resonance in the
:04:46. > :04:50.USA. I think what we are going to seek his Americans watching with
:04:50. > :04:54.increasing interest and respecting that this is a decision for the
:04:54. > :04:58.Scottish people to make. They might respect, I don't think the
:04:58. > :05:02.Washington Post or anyone else in America is suggesting that Scotland
:05:02. > :05:11.doesn't have the right to make this decision. The US government has
:05:11. > :05:16.strategic interests and one of its biggest strategic issues in Europe
:05:16. > :05:19.is a unified United Kingdom, its biggest ally in this Continent.
:05:19. > :05:24.think the strategic interests of the United States is having strong
:05:24. > :05:26.alliances and it has strong alliances through NATO. There was a
:05:26. > :05:31.legitimate question in some people's mind before the NATO
:05:31. > :05:34.policy, but if we look now, the decision for the United States,
:05:34. > :05:40.although it is the people of Scotland's decision, but as we
:05:40. > :05:44.watch the issue is after the 2014 referendum, do we have one ally,
:05:44. > :05:47.the UK, or an additional ally in the form of Scott Laird? The United
:05:47. > :05:51.States has seen independence movements around the world, at the
:05:51. > :05:56.end of World War II there were 51 countries that were independent
:05:56. > :06:00.members of the United Nations, now there are over 200. The notion that
:06:00. > :06:05.the USA can't have strategic interests with countries have
:06:05. > :06:09.different sizes I don't accept. one of the things I found
:06:09. > :06:13.interesting was the stress they put on the European Union. It is
:06:13. > :06:18.something that perhaps is not fully understood in Britain, not just in
:06:18. > :06:22.Scotland, but in Britain, how the USA has always seemed the European
:06:23. > :06:27.Union as very important in terms of cementing France and Germany
:06:27. > :06:31.together and strategically very important. Whether or not the
:06:31. > :06:34.Washington Post is right to argue that an independence Gordon would
:06:34. > :06:39.weaken the European Union, I found it interesting that this issue of
:06:39. > :06:47.the diplomatic and military power of the EU is so important. You have
:06:47. > :06:52.to look at what happened in Libya a year ago. How the UK was so
:06:53. > :06:57.instrumental in leading that air campaign against Colonel Gaddafi.
:06:57. > :07:03.The US recognises that ever since George Bush's debacles in Iraq and
:07:03. > :07:06.Afghanistan that it can't go on its own. It needs to get the world,
:07:06. > :07:11.some form of consensus. That consensus begins with its most
:07:11. > :07:16.reliable friends. It is perfectly reasonable for the people of
:07:16. > :07:22.Scotland to make the decision, and I certainly have no issue with that
:07:22. > :07:26.and I suspect American foreign policy would agree with that, but
:07:26. > :07:31.if you are asking what is in the interests of America, I think the
:07:31. > :07:35.Washington Post article, even if there are some that factual errors,
:07:35. > :07:41.and if there ralph they should be corrected, that the broad strokes
:07:41. > :07:45.of this is indisputable that America wants a coherent, powerful,
:07:45. > :07:52.unified Allied that it can trust in any circumstance.
:07:52. > :07:54.While America has good relations with France, Germany, Canada, the
:07:55. > :08:00.alive that matters most in international relationships is the
:08:00. > :08:05.United Kingdom. A diminished UK, a diminished UK military, a
:08:05. > :08:09.diminished UK economy, all of those things, if you're asking what the
:08:09. > :08:15.Washington Post is asking, which is what is in America's interest, one
:08:15. > :08:25.of those things are in America's interest. Able organised UK, which
:08:25. > :08:33.
:08:33. > :08:42.is what they will see it as, is not Take that example of Libya, Nicolas
:08:42. > :08:46.Sarkozy talked to a -- tour to Obama, if there was an independent
:08:47. > :08:51.Scotland if there had been Norway or Denmark or Icelander who had
:08:51. > :08:56.been pushing that that that could really get the American President
:08:56. > :09:00.to go along with the military option? That question is to
:09:00. > :09:04.Jennifer Erickson. I understand your point, but I do not understand
:09:04. > :09:08.the premise that the United Kingdom would be a diminished country, I do
:09:08. > :09:11.not understand this fear that the UK would have difficulty in its own
:09:11. > :09:16.relationships if the Scottish people decided to vote for
:09:16. > :09:23.independence in 2014. The rest of the United Kingdom would still be
:09:24. > :09:27.an incredibly important part of the United States' allies. I do not
:09:27. > :09:33.understand this premise that there is a diminished rest of the United
:09:33. > :09:40.Kingdom based on what the Scottish people decide. Sorry, Jeffrey, I
:09:40. > :09:46.had to cut you off there. We will have to leave it there. I am able
:09:46. > :09:49.to assure you the issue will not go away! What are our town centres
:09:50. > :09:54.for? Across Scotland, once attracted a high streets have
:09:54. > :09:58.become derelict, dilapidated and down-at-heel. Retailers have fled
:09:58. > :10:07.to the internet so what do we do with the husks of the Victorian
:10:07. > :10:12.town centres they abandoned? Today is the Scottish Government cut the
:10:12. > :10:16.rate discount on empty shops. Hoping that if the owners are
:10:16. > :10:22.forced to pay more, they might double their efforts to find a
:10:22. > :10:26.tenant. Our reporter has been to Alloa.
:10:26. > :10:32.Internet shopping, the recession, the demise of our traditional high-
:10:32. > :10:36.street goes on. Today, a bill was passed by the Scottish Parliament
:10:36. > :10:40.which would reduce the discount on business rates on empty properties.
:10:40. > :10:42.The Government hopes it will invigorate the high street.
:10:42. > :10:47.Scottish Government cannot maintain a position where we are subsidising
:10:47. > :10:49.people to keep properties closed at a time when we need to be
:10:49. > :10:54.regenerating communities and tackling this blight on our high
:10:54. > :11:00.street. But its controversial. CBI Scotland are claiming it will
:11:01. > :11:05.increase costs to businesses by �18 million per year. This company in
:11:05. > :11:13.Dundee let out of the space but at the moment it is at low occupancy.
:11:13. > :11:16.This bill will hit them where it hurts most, in the pocket. It costs
:11:16. > :11:21.about �160,000 per year just to open the centre with current
:11:21. > :11:27.occupancy levels. We are currently run at a loss of �12,000 per year.
:11:27. > :11:33.If you add 30 grand on to that, it is quite a worry. A couple of weeks
:11:33. > :11:39.ago, there was a report about said since the start of 2012, more than
:11:39. > :11:43.250 shops had brought the shutters down, an average of one per day.
:11:43. > :11:47.The whole point of this bill is to get landlords to let out unoccupied
:11:47. > :11:52.properties and breathe life into the high street. Is the idea of a
:11:52. > :11:58.main street full of shops just updated? The certainly a future for
:11:58. > :12:02.the high street in Scotland. It is part and parcel of Scotland, it
:12:02. > :12:08.makes Scotland the place it is. It should people and people shake it.
:12:08. > :12:12.It is so important that we allow local people to take control of
:12:12. > :12:19.their town so they can shake it. And not how the market might
:12:19. > :12:23.dictate -- shape it. So what can be done? The first thing but you see
:12:23. > :12:28.in most high streets is vacant properties either on the ground
:12:28. > :12:31.level or mostly up above shops. A lot of the residential high streets
:12:32. > :12:36.were ripped out so that shops could have storage space above them. They
:12:36. > :12:41.do not need that any more because of the weight distribution
:12:41. > :12:44.logistics are managed. We have to ask ourselves, do we want to bring
:12:44. > :12:49.people back in so they can live above shops and create a high
:12:49. > :12:57.street which will be used in the evening as well as doing the day?
:12:57. > :13:03.Town centres must change. No longer can they rely solely on shops to
:13:03. > :13:07.bring people in. It is about adding value. Raj was approached by
:13:08. > :13:16.business owners in Alloa to open a restaurant as a way of bringing in
:13:16. > :13:20.people at a time of day which is unusual. They introduce us to new
:13:20. > :13:25.properties here and something we would not have looked at but they
:13:25. > :13:32.explained the benefits of opening here in different locations so we
:13:32. > :13:37.finally chose this one here. What is a Business Improvement District?
:13:37. > :13:43.It is a mechanism whereby all the businesses within a geographical
:13:43. > :13:49.defined area, in other words the town centre of Alloa, come together
:13:49. > :13:54.and contribute an additional levy. It has the lowest a vacancy rate in
:13:54. > :13:59.Scotland here in Alloa, something to do with its Business Improvement
:13:59. > :14:07.District area. We started off with shopfront grants and the number of
:14:07. > :14:12.the shops have reduced that money to increase signage. It makes Alloa
:14:12. > :14:15.town centre look better. Watch feedback have you been getting?
:14:15. > :14:21.customers in the streets think it has massively improved over the
:14:21. > :14:25.past five years. There are many areas for Business
:14:25. > :14:28.Improvement Districts but none are the same as each other. In Alloa,
:14:29. > :14:38.it is achieved by its martyr, clean the streets, but the shops and
:14:39. > :14:39.
:14:39. > :14:44.events. A -- it is brought in by it better shops, cleaner streets.
:14:44. > :14:48.have got events like a centre trained for Christmas, an ice rink
:14:48. > :14:52.and on Monday night a firework display for Guy Fawkes night. All
:14:52. > :14:59.these events bring people into the town and when they are in there
:14:59. > :15:04.enjoying these events, they can spend some money in the local shops.
:15:04. > :15:08.Alloa at least seems to be thriving but will this bill be the death
:15:08. > :15:17.rattle of the high street or an opportunity to we imagine our
:15:17. > :15:22.public spaces? -- to we imagined. We are joined by a Kevin Murray,
:15:22. > :15:28.chairman of the Academy of Urbanism from our Aberdeen Studios. What is
:15:28. > :15:32.the Academy of Urbanism? It is an organisation of about 500
:15:32. > :15:37.practitioners or more in towns and cities across Britain and Ireland
:15:37. > :15:42.and increasingly in Europe. We study and learn good practice from
:15:43. > :15:51.those different streets, neighbourhoods, places and cities.
:15:51. > :15:55.Did what you saw there in Alloa that is going on the right track?
:15:55. > :15:58.think the Alloa experience and Business Improvement Districts are
:15:58. > :16:03.good. Care must be taken that they do not squeeze out lower-cost
:16:03. > :16:06.specialist retailers and so on but they are trained to be
:16:06. > :16:11.comprehensive and adding value. And the street cleaning, the shop
:16:11. > :16:15.frontages are very important. you think we must think again in a
:16:15. > :16:19.fundamental way what town centres are all about? Yes, that is correct
:16:19. > :16:23.and I would say that it is more than just retail. The danger is if
:16:23. > :16:27.we just think town centres are about shops and shopping, and we
:16:27. > :16:34.have seen that progressively declined, over the next few years
:16:34. > :16:39.it will come back in some areas are not equally. We must look at new
:16:39. > :16:44.functions. Bringing people back to live in and around shops but also
:16:44. > :16:48.about thinking not just about shopping and consumption, in town
:16:48. > :16:55.centres, it is about production. Lots of these places that we know
:16:55. > :16:59.used to make things for the past 300 years. Today, places like Hong
:16:59. > :17:03.Kong or cities in Turkey, they make things in amongst the shopping
:17:03. > :17:10.centres with production. You might see many factoring that will then,
:17:10. > :17:13.not unlike a Baker, they make in the store and sell at the front.
:17:13. > :17:19.Like fancy jewellery shops, something with a silversmith in the
:17:19. > :17:22.back that you can talk to the silversmiths. It may not be
:17:22. > :17:26.expensive and at great value in terms of the cost to those at
:17:26. > :17:34.rented but it is the experience that matters. What you are
:17:34. > :17:41.describing reminds me of a visit and trip I took to the main street
:17:41. > :17:44.in Cairo. That local goods are made nearby? Yes, lots of things are
:17:44. > :17:49.outsourced and if you think of the places people go back to, not just
:17:50. > :17:53.on holiday but nearby themselves, it is part to do with the human
:17:54. > :17:59.experience. Not the best air- conditioning or the best job, it is
:17:59. > :18:03.about the experience. People fire all around the world to go to some
:18:03. > :18:06.of the north European Christmas markets, such as those in Germany,
:18:06. > :18:11.because they are a fantastic experience. It is about the human
:18:11. > :18:15.face to face interaction and exchange. We will leave it there,
:18:15. > :18:20.thank you for that, Kevin Murray. A quick look at tomorrow's front
:18:20. > :18:30.pages. Starting with The Scotsman. Leading on David Cameron's defeat
:18:30. > :18:32.
:18:32. > :18:40.in the Commons, and the PM's authority undermined in the debate
:18:40. > :18:45.for cash for Europe. The Daily Mail - Tory Euro rebels humiliate
:18:46. > :18:51.Cameron, 53 Conservatives vote with Labour to demand the EU budget cut.
:18:51. > :18:57.The Independent, genetic profiteering, scandal of firm
:18:57. > :19:03.hiding breast cancer data. On The Guardian, David Cameron, Tory