:00:01. > :00:11.that his tenure has hardly transformed politics in the way
:00:11. > :00:14.
:00:14. > :00:19.Tonight on Newsnight Scotland, legalised prostitution or a
:00:19. > :00:24.pragmatic solution to keeping prostitutes and communities safe?
:00:24. > :00:30.We will debate whether Edinburgh soreness should remain open. And
:00:31. > :00:39.Craig Levein has been sacked. Do we expect too much of the national
:00:39. > :00:43.In Glasgow there is a zero tolerance attitude to prostitution
:00:43. > :00:48.but in Edinburgh there has been a tolerance of massage parlours used
:00:48. > :00:58.as brothels. That may be about to change as councillors meet to
:00:58. > :01:05.
:01:05. > :01:09.decide whether 12th premises should have their licences renewed. -- 12.
:01:09. > :01:19.An element of life in the capital that is in stark contrast to the
:01:19. > :01:24.
:01:24. > :01:32.image of the city. Since the 19 eighties licensed saunas had looked
:01:32. > :01:36.cheek by jowl with the city architecture. Police say it is
:01:36. > :01:46.pragmatism. Say, for prostitutes and the public love with the plight
:01:46. > :01:49.
:01:50. > :01:59.of care crawlers. -- safer for a prostitute and the public who live
:01:59. > :02:09.with kerb crawlers. It comes down to a mall or pragmatic argument. --
:02:09. > :02:11.
:02:11. > :02:20.morale. -- moral. This is a successful pragmatic policy and we
:02:20. > :02:30.see no reason for a change now. It is more difficult to do damage to a
:02:30. > :02:38.
:02:38. > :02:45.sex worker in dawns than outdoors. -- endorsed. -- indoors. The policy
:02:45. > :02:50.began in the 1980s in response to the HIV and Aids epidemic. One of
:02:50. > :02:54.the reasons there is not the HIV epidemic of 20 years ago is
:02:54. > :03:04.precisely because of initiatives like this. I shudder to think what
:03:04. > :03:05.
:03:05. > :03:13.the statistics would be otherwise. But 50 miles away on the other side
:03:13. > :03:18.of the country, Glasgow sees things very differently. This year is
:03:18. > :03:25.traditionally known for at prostitution. -- this a pair of the
:03:25. > :03:30.city. -- a year. You could say that a councillor going in the very
:03:30. > :03:35.opposite direction. It wants to see an end to lap-dancing clubs and
:03:35. > :03:38.there is no culture of turning a blind eye. I Glasgow-based women's
:03:38. > :03:48.group say that working with the council and other agencies is the
:03:48. > :03:48.
:03:48. > :03:55.way forward. The multi- agency partnership and working group has
:03:55. > :04:03.developed a clear policy approach to the problem. It links
:04:03. > :04:10.prostitution to other forms of gender based violence. That has a
:04:10. > :04:17.good how it has approached issues like licensing. And also policing.
:04:17. > :04:26.I think it has been a successful approach. We do not have commercial
:04:26. > :04:30.brothels masquerading as mismatch parlours in Glasgow any more.
:04:30. > :04:38.licences are not renewed the closure of we changed the face of
:04:38. > :04:44.the sex industry and Edinburgh. I am joined by the Independent MSP,
:04:44. > :04:52.Margo MacDonald, and in Glasgow, by Anne McIlveen, of the ministry who
:04:52. > :05:00.provide support to street prostitutes. Margo MacDonald, are
:05:00. > :05:04.some of these premises just in fact brothels? They are said to provide
:05:04. > :05:12.some sort of entertainment. But I think it is naive to presumed there
:05:12. > :05:17.is not such a thing. Even the support workers say they are a
:05:17. > :05:27.place where sex workers operate. That makes it hard to argue are
:05:27. > :05:31.
:05:31. > :05:34.just a place for a mismatch? -- massage? It is a pragmatic way of
:05:34. > :05:38.dealing with industry and has proved successful in Edinburgh. You
:05:38. > :05:46.can look at the records and say that during the policy of
:05:46. > :05:56.management or toleration, the number of women working as
:05:56. > :05:57.
:05:57. > :06:04.prostitutes has reduced. Is it the correct approach? I do not think so.
:06:04. > :06:12.I believe it is still an abuse of women. To have any doubt that what
:06:12. > :06:22.goes on in there is prostitution? Of course it is. The owners make
:06:22. > :06:25.
:06:25. > :06:35.money out of the girls have insects. -- having sex. Is there a will line
:06:35. > :06:36.
:06:36. > :06:42.this? -- well will blindness? part of the human condition,
:06:42. > :06:49.prostitution. In every city there will be brothels or places of adult
:06:49. > :06:53.entertainment. They are part of what we now call the sex industry.
:06:53. > :06:59.They have to be managed and controlled and the interests of the
:06:59. > :07:09.women who work in them and the general community. I've and
:07:09. > :07:11.
:07:11. > :07:18.Edinburgh has done extremely well. But within the law? A lot is clear.
:07:19. > :07:28.The law is not actually clear. this better than having women
:07:28. > :07:35.walking the streets in danger? you see them as a different level
:07:35. > :07:41.of society, the women working in these places? You know as well as I
:07:41. > :07:44.do that they come and go and it is very wrong to a blanket them as
:07:44. > :07:49.prostitutes of sex workers. Some of them will work only for a few
:07:50. > :07:58.months until the get back on their feet again. I do not see them as a
:07:58. > :08:06.different species. If that is the case, is the Glaswegian strategy
:08:06. > :08:13.any better? Class core has worked very hard in the 11 years I have
:08:13. > :08:19.been doing this ministry. -- Glasgow. We have seen a decrease in
:08:19. > :08:27.the number of girls working on the street. Some of them are going
:08:27. > :08:36.elsewhere, are working from flats. We have also found that they are
:08:36. > :08:41.working from mobile phones. Clients come and pick them up. Not that
:08:41. > :08:46.many girls are still on the street. They don't need to be. Very few in
:08:46. > :08:55.Edinburgh. But more and Glasgow. And proportionately, there are more
:08:55. > :09:03.on drugs in Glasgow. If you like, the advantage of Edinburgh system,
:09:03. > :09:09.over Glasgow, is that the police have better intelligence. What
:09:09. > :09:16.should be done? Just a matter of the Council approving licences or
:09:16. > :09:21.do we need a wholesale change and the law? Until somebody produces a
:09:21. > :09:29.better idea we should stick with something that has produced very
:09:29. > :09:37.low HIB statistics. -- HIV. He is a low-level criminality associated
:09:37. > :09:41.with prostitution. A lower level of violence against the women. One
:09:41. > :09:48.year after the Edinburgh is one was discontinued because Glasgow had
:09:48. > :09:58.their way regarding the new lock, gratuitous assault in Edinburgh
:09:58. > :09:59.
:09:59. > :10:05.rose by 1,000 %. It was the same in Glasgow. We are out there every
:10:05. > :10:14.Saturday night. At we had not been their venom quite a few locations
:10:14. > :10:18.I know that. You had a very bad record in Glasgow compared to
:10:18. > :10:23.Edinburgh, it is something I don't like doing, comparing the record,
:10:23. > :10:26.but I have no or criticism of your organisation at all. I'd do have
:10:26. > :10:32.some criticism a some of the other groups working in the field in
:10:32. > :10:37.Glasgow. Is it time for these licences simply to be approved or
:10:37. > :10:42.should dings change? Until we get rid of poverty, and till we get rid
:10:42. > :10:48.of cruelty and exploitation, we are better off approving the licences.
:10:48. > :10:51.There we must leave it. Thank you very much.
:10:51. > :10:55.So, Craig Levein has been sacked as Scotland manager. His three years
:10:55. > :10:59.in charge won't be remembered with much affection by the Tartan Army.
:10:59. > :11:03.First he failed to get the team and to this summer's Euros, and the
:11:03. > :11:13.campaign to qualify it for Brazil in 2014 was over almost before it
:11:13. > :11:19.had started. That is it. Scotland's hopes are
:11:19. > :11:22.surely dead and buried in now. the wrong with them, Craig Levein's
:11:22. > :11:31.reign as Scotland manager. It defeated Belgium international side
:11:31. > :11:36.had picked up just two. For made possible 12. -- two point from a
:11:36. > :11:41.possible 12. Like managers before him, Craig Levein tried to lower
:11:41. > :11:50.the expectations of the Tartan Army. One thing that was low it was the
:11:50. > :11:55.team's place in the official world rankings. It slipped from a 46 in
:11:55. > :12:05.2009 to 56 today. But with only modest talent at his disposal, can
:12:05. > :12:08.the fans expect much better? Hogg, the fans, fed on a diet of Dalglish
:12:08. > :12:13.and Baxter. Of course they expect better, they are football fans,
:12:13. > :12:17.after all. One thing they didn't expect to see ever was a Scotland
:12:17. > :12:22.team play a football match without a forward. But that is what Craig
:12:22. > :12:26.Levein did against De Czech Republic, and duly lost. That, at
:12:26. > :12:31.his handling of Steven Fletcher, the goalscorer he wouldn't pick
:12:31. > :12:36.until it was probably too late, is what Craig Levein will probably be
:12:36. > :12:41.best remembered for. So the lights have gone out on his international
:12:41. > :12:45.management career. It is now over to the Scottish FA to persuade
:12:45. > :12:49.somebody, I dare to risk a repetition or to try and build a
:12:49. > :12:55.reputation by restoring Scottish Power to the football field --
:12:55. > :13:01.either to risk a reputation. I am joined by Gordon Smith, who
:13:01. > :13:05.was chief executive of the SFA Brent Craig Levein was appointed.
:13:05. > :13:10.You were directly involved in hiring Craig Levein. He hasn't
:13:10. > :13:15.delivered Magee regret appointing him? You never know. Every
:13:15. > :13:18.appointment is a risk to a certain extent, but he was a prime
:13:18. > :13:22.candidate when he was brought forward, and the board of directors
:13:22. > :13:27.agreed he was the right man to take us forward. Everything seemed to be
:13:27. > :13:30.moving along positively, although they didn't qualify for the last
:13:30. > :13:35.campaign, his own and talk on everything was the fact that this
:13:35. > :13:39.is the best group of players we have had for some time, a very
:13:39. > :13:43.positive, we can win the games coming up, but it hasn't worked out.
:13:43. > :13:48.Did he get the best out of the players? Some say his tactical
:13:48. > :13:52.decisions were 14. That could be said about some of them were wrong,
:13:52. > :13:56.some of the performances were not good. The question is whether it is
:13:56. > :14:00.down to the players not being good enough, if they are not, no one
:14:00. > :14:04.else could have done better, but there have been examples in the
:14:04. > :14:12.past when a certain group of players is taken over by another
:14:12. > :14:16.manager and all the sudden, results improve. Tom Lucas, we have now
:14:16. > :14:21.seen seven Scotland managers in 10 years. Little wonder perhaps that
:14:21. > :14:27.the Scotland team are struggling? There is no continuity, in my view
:14:27. > :14:32.I think the job is now a part-time job, there is no need for a full-
:14:32. > :14:37.time manager. At the end of the day, we are falling so far behind, with
:14:37. > :14:43.the demise of Mother Russia and the increase in the number of countries,
:14:43. > :14:48.we have fallen further and further behind. There is no William need
:14:48. > :14:56.for a full-time coach. What sort of coach are you looking for, a young,
:14:56. > :15:00.up and coming one? Somebody who has been over the course, knows for a
:15:00. > :15:08.ball inside Out, has that level of respect and ability that the
:15:08. > :15:12.players will respond to -- knows that bought inside out. -- knows
:15:12. > :15:19.football inside out. I think if it doesn't work out, I think we will
:15:19. > :15:25.have to change. An additional think is that we do not merit a full-time
:15:25. > :15:29.coach. He was full time because every manager has been so far,
:15:29. > :15:32.there are a lot of matches, they also have an ambassadorial role to
:15:32. > :15:37.play to be the Scotland manager, and Craig Levein also wanted to be
:15:37. > :15:44.involved when he was appointed, coming in to speak to ask me what
:15:44. > :15:48.to to be involved in the whole restructuring of the game. That was
:15:48. > :15:54.already under way, we had a terrific report for the SFA, to
:15:54. > :15:57.take it forward, and Craig Levein wanted to be part of that. I
:15:57. > :16:04.thought everything may keep him in the job it was the fact he had done
:16:04. > :16:07.a lot of work within that realm. But his remit was to improve the
:16:07. > :16:13.international team and take the team to international championships
:16:13. > :16:16.and it hasn't happened. What, then, is the problem? Is it the
:16:16. > :16:22.individual, is that the players Boris of the structure? I could be
:16:22. > :16:26.down to the fact that these players... I think we are improving
:16:26. > :16:30.the game, there are a lot of changes being made, we are trying
:16:31. > :16:36.to develop it, there are a lot more kids playing, a lot more volunteers,
:16:36. > :16:42.that is a big factor. That will take time. But I think we have a
:16:42. > :16:50.good enough group of players now. Anybody who says we do not, I would
:16:50. > :16:54.say look at Greece in 2004, they one the European Championships --
:16:54. > :17:00.they won the European Championships, against a whole load of top-class
:17:01. > :17:05.players. We would like to be there, do we expect too much of Scottish
:17:05. > :17:10.football? There is an issue there. Because in a sense, we invented the
:17:10. > :17:15.game, and we haven't produced, in my view, a world-class player in
:17:15. > :17:19.the last 15 or 20 years at any great note. We have world-class
:17:19. > :17:24.effort but not really any world- class players. I think we need to
:17:24. > :17:29.look at the whole structure of our coaching. Is Gordon Strachan the
:17:29. > :17:35.answer? He is certainly one of the major candidates, but I was in
:17:35. > :17:42.Brazil at one time and said that we invented the game, and they said
:17:42. > :17:52.yes, but we perfected it! There we must leave it. Just before we go, a
:17:52. > :17:57.
:17:57. > :18:07.time for a look at the morning's That incident which happened in
:18:07. > :18:28.