:00:10. > :00:14.clean up the environment. Thank you all very much. Tonight on Newsnight
:00:14. > :00:16.Scotland. I'm sorry. The First Minister gets his sums wrong on
:00:17. > :00:19.education and is forced to apologise to Parliament. What does
:00:19. > :00:25.this latest row mean for his government's hard-won reputation
:00:25. > :00:31.for competence and trust? And we look at how Scotland's gardens,
:00:31. > :00:33.parks and countryside might look without the ash tree. And we ask,
:00:33. > :00:39.what's to stop disease decimating other native species, like the
:00:39. > :00:44.Scots Pine? Good evening. Days like today are the kind that every
:00:44. > :00:53.government dreads, but which they all have to face. The thing is,
:00:53. > :00:56.this is one the government should have seen coming. After a week of
:00:56. > :00:58.furious rows over the further education sector, which involved a
:00:58. > :01:01.controversial resignation and claims of ministerial bullying,
:01:01. > :01:05.Alex Salmond went into the bearpit of First Minister's Questions well-
:01:05. > :01:08.briefed - or so he thought. That was at midday. By 5pm he was back
:01:08. > :01:11.to apologise. Jamie McIvor takes up the story. It is the big night out
:01:11. > :01:14.for Scotland's politicians. The politician of the Year Awards
:01:14. > :01:18.celebrates their achievements. It is maybe just as well for the
:01:18. > :01:23.Scottish government that there is no prize for a bad day at the
:01:23. > :01:29.office. The row over colleges has been cooking for some time but this
:01:29. > :01:34.week, it caught fire. Secretly recorded meetings. The resignation
:01:34. > :01:41.of the chairman of one College, and claims of bullying against
:01:41. > :01:45.education secretary, Mike Russell. So inevitably, it dominated First
:01:45. > :01:51.Minister's questions. Had Mike Russell been correct to say that
:01:51. > :01:55.the college budget had gone up? Cabinet Secretary was in fact wrong,
:01:55. > :02:04.and isn't misleading Parliament the kind of offence back should cost
:02:04. > :02:08.the minister his job? I think 505 - - 45 million, to 546 million is by
:02:08. > :02:14.definition an increase in funding and that is as exact an answer as
:02:14. > :02:18.anyone has given in any Parliament. Mr Russell, they duly Parliament?
:02:18. > :02:23.And absolutely not. People are calling for you're resignation.
:02:23. > :02:28.They should call for everybody's is that resignation, as the First
:02:28. > :02:32.Minister said. It seemed like they had squeezed out of another Labour
:02:32. > :02:38.challenge. That is an end to the matter. She totally and absolutely
:02:38. > :02:42.failed to make the case. The so- called calls for Mike Russell's
:02:42. > :02:49.resignation had been pre-announced by her special adviser on Twitter
:02:49. > :02:55.This Morning. So you are not going anywhere, saying? Into the left.
:02:55. > :03:00.a, Labour had other plans. Labour insisted that the minister was not
:03:00. > :03:08.comparing like with like. College funding last year was set at Port -
:03:08. > :03:13.- 540 poor �0.7 million, but that was topped up to a final total of
:03:13. > :03:22.555.7 million. This year, the initial plan figure was 506.9
:03:22. > :03:32.million. The final figure is set at 546.4 million. That, Labour says,
:03:32. > :03:36.
:03:36. > :03:41.means that funding has been cut, not increased. So, after lunch.
:03:41. > :03:45.They Government said that the fact were being checked and the First
:03:45. > :03:50.Minister was back to admit he had used the wrong figure. I take full
:03:50. > :03:54.responsibility for what I see in this chamber solely have taken this
:03:54. > :04:00.earliest opportunity to correct the figure. The figures should have
:04:00. > :04:05.been 556 million, not 545 million, and I apologise to the chamber for
:04:05. > :04:10.this error. This time Alex Salmond left looking decidedly downbeat. An
:04:10. > :04:16.apology would be embarrassing for any politician at any time, but
:04:16. > :04:21.does he risk real damage? In one transcript I have been described as
:04:21. > :04:26.a bare-faced liar. He has been forced to deny flying over advice
:04:26. > :04:31.concerning an independent Scotland's membership of the EU,
:04:31. > :04:35.and referred themselves for investigation. All governments
:04:35. > :04:42.strive to have a reputation for competence and trust, and the SNP
:04:42. > :04:52.worked hard to build one, but if days like today do lasting damage
:04:52. > :04:52.
:04:52. > :04:55.to the Government's image, it could be difficult to repair it. I'm
:04:55. > :04:57.joined now by Angela Constance, SNP Education minister who also has
:04:57. > :04:59.responsibility for youth employment matters, and by Labour's Education
:04:59. > :05:04.spokesman, Hugh Henry. I could not help but notice you were standing
:05:04. > :05:11.in the lift as both of them got in. Deja correct them and said that
:05:11. > :05:16.what they it said outside was nonsense? -- did you correct them.
:05:16. > :05:22.That was important that the First Minister had the decency to come
:05:22. > :05:27.back and say that to air his human. So you did not point that out?
:05:27. > :05:31.I did not, but the facts speak for themselves. The First Minister
:05:32. > :05:36.returned to the chamber by teatime and put the record straight,
:05:36. > :05:43.accepted responsibility, made a very gracious apology to Parliament,
:05:43. > :05:50.and I think it is very sad that that cannot be accepted. Was it
:05:50. > :05:54.accepted? A was forced to come back. We raised a point of order. At
:05:54. > :06:01.lunchtime he said if Johann Lamont was wrong. He has not apologised to
:06:01. > :06:10.her. It is not just Alex Salmond that misled parliament. Mike
:06:10. > :06:17.Russell did, as well. You, the government minister, what is Mike
:06:17. > :06:21.Russell apologising for? As I understand it, Mike Russell
:06:21. > :06:26.recently wrote to the education committee with the facts, as laid
:06:26. > :06:31.out by the First Minister at teatime. What bike will bustle will
:06:31. > :06:38.be doing is writing to the presiding officer -- Mike Russell,
:06:38. > :06:45.is to apologise for the mistake he made in the chamber some months ago.
:06:45. > :06:50.But the most recent backs... I am not getting this at all. What
:06:50. > :06:55.exactly is Mike Russell apologising for? No, you kill me. No, you tell
:06:55. > :07:02.me, you are in the Government. think Mike Russell has an excellent
:07:02. > :07:07.track record... Might also was supposed to be apologising as well
:07:07. > :07:12.and I am asking you what he was apologising for. He will be writing
:07:12. > :07:18.to the presiding officer, with regard to the comments that he made
:07:19. > :07:25.to a member in Parliament in JUN, repeating the same factual
:07:25. > :07:28.inaccuracy that the First Minister did earlier today. The most recent
:07:28. > :07:34.information Mike Russell provided to the education committee puts on
:07:34. > :07:40.record the facts as quoted former, as quoted by the cost Minister at
:07:40. > :07:44.teatime. What is Mike Russell apologising for? He should be
:07:44. > :07:52.apologising for misleading Parliament, but you cannot believe
:07:53. > :08:00.anything he or Alex Salmond says. Because, in JUN, Mike Russell said
:08:00. > :08:05.there were no cuts. In November, yesterday, he said I never said
:08:05. > :08:09.there were no cuts. He flatly contradicted themselves. The
:08:09. > :08:14.ministerial code says that you should, at the air least
:08:14. > :08:18.opportunity, come back and apologised to Parliament. He misled
:08:18. > :08:22.Parliament in June, presented information to the committee in
:08:22. > :08:28.October and did not bother coming back to apologise until the episode
:08:28. > :08:37.blew up today. It is farcical, disingenuous and dishonest.
:08:37. > :08:44.Labour Party are overplaying their hand here. I am trying to explain.
:08:44. > :08:47.The inaccuracy of one figure in one briefing, the inaccurate figure the
:08:47. > :08:53.First Minister used today, was the same inaccurate figure that Mike
:08:53. > :09:01.Russell used earlier in the chamber. It is a comparison between one year
:09:01. > :09:09.to the next. It is an and accuracy of 1.7% out of a budget of �500
:09:09. > :09:19.million. Alex Salmond got the figures wrong. That Mike Russell
:09:19. > :09:23.deliberately get the figures wrong as well, was it coincidence? People
:09:23. > :09:29.can you the inaccuracy for themselves. But, what has been
:09:29. > :09:38.blown out of proportion is one wrong figure, comparing one you
:09:38. > :09:44.have to do next. That is like somebody saying I or �10 million,
:09:44. > :09:53.Ashley it is �9 million, but only got one figure wrong. It is one
:09:53. > :09:57.figure out of a �500 billion budget. I have got the document they
:09:57. > :10:01.produced. It is not about the Budget in general. It was a
:10:01. > :10:06.specific reply from Mike bustled to a letter from the education
:10:06. > :10:11.committee, -- Mike Russell, and these are the only figures in it,
:10:11. > :10:17.so it is not like it is in the context of a tiny detail of a huge
:10:17. > :10:23.budget. This is specifically about further education. It is one figure
:10:23. > :10:31.comparing when you to the next, in further education. -- comparing one
:10:31. > :10:36.year to the next. The people of Scotland accept that... The
:10:36. > :10:40.important thing is that politicians put their hands up and accept
:10:40. > :10:45.responsibility, apologise to Parliament which, in this instance
:10:45. > :10:51.was entirely appropriate, and take responsibility and put their hands
:10:51. > :10:58.up. You can see why people want to take recordings of meetings with
:10:58. > :11:03.these people. I think that is being silly. We have two people making
:11:03. > :11:07.the same mistake months apart. He chose to ignore one of the figures
:11:07. > :11:17.and take a different figure from that :, because it suited him. This
:11:17. > :11:22.
:11:22. > :11:26.man has form with these mistakes. - - from that column. The SNP was
:11:26. > :11:30.supposed to be different. We're supposed to believe that when Alex
:11:30. > :11:34.Salmond said he got legal advice in terms of the debate, any normal
:11:34. > :11:38.person would think that he had got legal advice and now when he
:11:38. > :11:42.misquotes figures to Parliament we unjust supposed to accept it. As
:11:42. > :11:48.you said, you only got one number wrong. It is the sort of nonsense
:11:48. > :11:52.we're used to getting from politicians up here and down there.
:11:52. > :11:56.You are supposed to be different. We are different. We should be
:11:56. > :12:01.flattered that our political opponents judge us by higher
:12:01. > :12:04.standards, because there have been numerous cases of ministers going
:12:05. > :12:09.back to Parliament to put the record straight, where an error has
:12:09. > :12:17.been made. We are different, and we will be judged on our record on
:12:17. > :12:22.delivering for young people... One Modern apprenticeships, on
:12:22. > :12:29.opportunities for all. The way that Alex Salmond operates is that he
:12:29. > :12:36.determines the truth, and he determines the facts. You are happy
:12:36. > :12:40.to let this go, now, are you? Have you got your pound of flesh?
:12:40. > :12:44.Alex Salmond has misled parliament, and Mike Russell has misled
:12:44. > :12:48.parliament, and there are further questions to be asked. Angela can
:12:48. > :12:52.help to clear this up, if she would agree to release all the papers
:12:52. > :12:56.given to Alex Salmond to help him prepare for First Minister's
:12:56. > :13:05.questions, you may see the facts he had available to him, and that with
:13:05. > :13:08.clear red up. -- that would clear it up. This Government has a great
:13:09. > :13:18.record on transparency. This is Scotland and there is nothing that
:13:19. > :13:27.
:13:27. > :13:34.can be kept secret in a small The Rumsey business - it is that
:13:34. > :13:40.finished he, as far as you're concerned? I think that Mike
:13:40. > :13:46.Russell overplayed his hand. He is content condemning a hen for taping,
:13:46. > :13:53.that is in the public domain. It was picked on the internet by
:13:53. > :14:03.Scotland's colleges. I think it was an abuse of power. Would you accept
:14:03. > :14:07.
:14:07. > :14:15.this is an even more absurd row? do not wish and any ill will, but I
:14:15. > :14:21.do not think his conduct was becoming of his position. The issue
:14:21. > :14:28.is about recording something in secret and I think he has done the
:14:28. > :14:33.right thing by choosing to resign. I wish him well for the future.
:14:33. > :14:39.will cheer you up that Nicola Sturgeon just one apology of the
:14:39. > :14:41.Year award. Beck does not bother me in the slightest. We started the
:14:41. > :14:44.week speculating what Scotland's future broadcasting landscape might
:14:44. > :14:47.look like. Tonight, we wonder what our physical landscape might look
:14:47. > :14:50.like without the ash tree. This week, the Scottish government
:14:50. > :14:53.convened a special summit meeting to discuss how to tackle the ash
:14:53. > :14:55.dieback disease. It has already been detected here and, if it goes
:14:55. > :15:04.unchecked, could kill millions of trees and change the face of
:15:04. > :15:09.countryside, parks and gardens. But is it already too late? If it
:15:09. > :15:18.continues to spread, experts warn that ash dieback could prove as
:15:18. > :15:22.deadly as the Dutch elm disease outbreak of the 1970s. Last week,
:15:22. > :15:30.this forest in Dumfries and Galloway was added to the number of
:15:30. > :15:33.cases throughout Scotland of the chalara dieback fungus. The
:15:33. > :15:37.Environment Minister welcomed representatives from various
:15:37. > :15:41.forestry groups, conservation bodies and Landowners Association's
:15:41. > :15:46.two best work out how best to tackle the threat. The Scottish
:15:46. > :15:52.government has already conceded that eradicating the disease
:15:52. > :15:59.entirely is probably unrealistic. Unfortunately, that is unlikely,
:15:59. > :16:06.now it is in the wider environment. What we now have to do is to try
:16:06. > :16:11.and stop the spread of that. We have to try and ensure that ash
:16:11. > :16:20.trees remain in our forests and continue to contribute to the
:16:20. > :16:24.ecosystem. So far, at the disease has been confirmed that 14 sites in
:16:24. > :16:30.Scotland, including a private nursery in the north-east. There
:16:30. > :16:35.are plans to re-test the trees in these areas to see how far the
:16:35. > :16:42.chalara dieback fungus has spread. Most of those affected are saplings
:16:42. > :16:47.in new developments. But two of them involve mature trees in their
:16:47. > :16:52.natural environment. This makes the task of containing it even more
:16:52. > :17:00.difficult. For now, they will be left alone in the hope of that the
:17:00. > :17:03.strain of ash trees resistant to the disease could be found.
:17:03. > :17:13.Joining me now from our Edinburgh studio is Angus Yarwood, the
:17:13. > :17:13.
:17:13. > :17:19.Government Affairs Manager of the Scottish Woodland Trust. What is
:17:20. > :17:29.alarming is that no one seems to believe Seriously that a ash trees
:17:30. > :17:30.
:17:30. > :17:35.of Britain can be saved. That is G two in the larger part. Most of the
:17:35. > :17:39.at ash trees in Scotland may be affected. But there will be a
:17:39. > :17:44.minority of trees which have a natural resilience to chalara
:17:44. > :17:50.dieback fungus and that is what we have to invest in. Do we actually
:17:50. > :17:57.know that or is that something we are a sort of guessing it? We will,
:17:57. > :18:01.the research from Europe, where the started, suggests that there is a
:18:01. > :18:10.strain that are resistant to it. That is what the science is telling
:18:10. > :18:16.us. How will long would that take to find these strains? Presumably,
:18:16. > :18:24.you find some cheese which do not tally, but the you then have to
:18:24. > :18:31.surmise that that is definitely the resistant type and then clone them?
:18:31. > :18:40.Yes, at the meeting on Tuesday, the identified the control plan for
:18:40. > :18:45.this. What was good was that there looks as if diversity is at the
:18:45. > :18:50.heart of the action the are taken. For example, mature trees will not
:18:50. > :18:58.be taken down at the heart disease. That is important, because mature
:18:58. > :19:07.cheese can lover lot longer than you might imagine. A -- mature
:19:07. > :19:14.these can live a lot longer. there elm trees growing in Britain
:19:14. > :19:20.which where resistant to Dutch elm disease? I are not certain about
:19:20. > :19:30.that. But as regards ash trees, there is a strain of resistance. We
:19:30. > :19:32.
:19:32. > :19:36.have seen that in Europe. We know there is the cry chance that some
:19:36. > :19:43.cheese without a cluster that are, will not be showing signs of the
:19:43. > :19:47.disease. The best way for people to educate themselves about it is to
:19:47. > :19:52.go to the Forestry Commission website about it. There is a lot of
:19:52. > :19:56.information about how it can be identified. Trees which are not
:19:56. > :20:06.diseased were just sitting within the deceased Strand are very
:20:06. > :20:08.
:20:08. > :20:15.important. Just before people start singing one of their favourite
:20:15. > :20:23.songs, row and trees are not affected by this? Nor, they are not.
:20:23. > :20:27.This is the common ash trees which are affected. What about Scots
:20:27. > :20:36.pine? There are all sorts of stories going around that this
:20:36. > :20:46.disease could affect it in the future. Yes, there is the different
:20:46. > :20:46.
:20:46. > :20:50.disease affecting the at Scots pine and that is the big concern. But we
:20:50. > :20:55.are putting all these plans in place for up ash trees and we would
:20:55. > :21:00.also like to see the same process been adopted and set in motion and
:21:00. > :21:07.p ready to use for other diseases when the arrive. It is inevitable
:21:07. > :21:12.we will probably get more tree diseases in the years to come.
:21:12. > :21:20.Please do not laugh at this question. Is it possible to
:21:20. > :21:26.actually sort of vaccinate trees in some way? Not, I am afraid not. So
:21:26. > :21:35.they is no way we could actually treat the Scots pine, for example,
:21:35. > :21:43.before the disease arrived, so that they could be protected? Not, at
:21:43. > :21:46.the moment, we do not have that capability. Okay, thank you very
:21:46. > :21:56.much. Now, a quick look at tomorrow's
:21:56. > :21:56.