:00:14. > :00:17.five years the age of 68 might not On Newsnight Scotland: at what
:00:17. > :00:22.point would you take action if you thought a child was being sexually
:00:22. > :00:28.abused? After Jimmy Savile, many across the United Kingdom will have
:00:28. > :00:34.a wish that they acted sooner than they did. Now one Scottish charity
:00:34. > :00:40.says, if you are suspicious, act immediately. How do you safeguard
:00:40. > :00:43.children whilst avoiding the risk of making false accusations? And,
:00:43. > :00:50.remembering the Great War. How should we commemorate next year,
:00:50. > :00:54.indeed, should we commemorate at all?
:00:54. > :01:00.Looking back, lots of people acknowledge that Jimmy Savile was
:01:00. > :01:05.creepy and probably up to no good. If they reported him earlier, who
:01:05. > :01:11.knows? A terrible episode in Our national life and one that the
:01:11. > :01:15.NSPCC want to learn from. If they have started a campaign encouraging
:01:15. > :01:22.people to report their concerns even if they are not certain. But
:01:22. > :01:27.surely that has its own dangers. It was a life lived in the
:01:27. > :01:32.showbusiness spotlight. Bickley of celebrity blinded millions to the
:01:32. > :01:37.truth that Jimmy Savile was a predatory sex offenders. The
:01:37. > :01:40.majority of his victims were children. Plenty of people had a
:01:40. > :01:45.day suspicions but the presenter ultimately went to his grave,
:01:45. > :01:49.unpunished. One by one allegations came to light and recriminations
:01:49. > :01:54.were widespread as people struggled to comprehend how his crimes
:01:54. > :01:57.remained undetected. One consequence of the publicity
:01:57. > :02:01.surrounding the Jimmy Savile scandal is heightened awareness
:02:01. > :02:05.about child sexual abuse. There may be a willingness to do more but for
:02:05. > :02:15.many people, acting upon suspicions that they may have by reporting
:02:15. > :02:21.them to police and others an authority is a bad step to take.
:02:21. > :02:31.That reluctance is the target of a new campaign by the NSPCC but a TV
:02:31. > :02:34.
:02:34. > :02:38.advert which builds ambiguously The children's charity say that
:02:38. > :02:45.calls to their helpline are on the up but more than half of those who
:02:45. > :02:51.do Kohl have taken over a month to report their concerns. The message,
:02:51. > :02:56.do not wait until you are certain. When there are strong indications
:02:56. > :03:02.that something isn't right, people's guts tell them, this child
:03:02. > :03:06.is being abused. But something else says, what if I am wrong? And
:03:06. > :03:09.concerned about what might be the impact on the child. They are
:03:09. > :03:16.worried about what the backlash might be for the accused. They
:03:16. > :03:25.worry about all these things. On Radio Scotland this morning, in
:03:25. > :03:35.sight from one victim. He was a pal of the community. He
:03:35. > :03:41.would tell all sorts of people, old people, DIY, -- help people,
:03:41. > :03:48.charities, but behind closed doors, he was a very clever, manipulative,
:03:48. > :03:53.horrible man. The NSPCC say that there had the
:03:53. > :04:00.nature of the problem means it is under reported. -- the head in
:04:00. > :04:04.nature. The police agree. It is quite widespread, although
:04:04. > :04:08.that is not to say it happens in every family, most children are
:04:08. > :04:12.brought up in a caring, loving environment. But there is a small
:04:12. > :04:19.yet significant number with abuse takes place and the impact that has
:04:19. > :04:24.on their lives is tremendous. The worry for some is that high
:04:24. > :04:28.profile cases involving the sexual abuse of children are responsible
:04:29. > :04:35.for whipping up hysteria. The message from the charity sits
:04:35. > :04:39.uneasily with this lawyer. At a time when there is stories in
:04:39. > :04:43.the media like the Jimmy Savile won the risk is that as well as genuine
:04:43. > :04:48.cases you get people reporting things mistakenly or maliciously
:04:48. > :04:56.that are untrue. Yet they can cause serious repercussions for the
:04:56. > :05:01.individuals who are accused. Such is the stigma that the wisdom
:05:01. > :05:04.of anonymous helplines is also being questioned.
:05:05. > :05:09.If you don't know who is making the allegation it is hard to know if
:05:09. > :05:15.you should give it weight a kid at seriousness. The default position
:05:15. > :05:22.will be that any allegation as treated seriously. -- give it
:05:22. > :05:26.weight or afford it seriousness. But my concern is an innocent
:05:26. > :05:32.person being wrongly accused of something like this then been
:05:32. > :05:36.unable to escape the consequences of the allegation being made.
:05:36. > :05:42.One of the most disturbing episodes in national life has prompted us to
:05:42. > :05:50.ask how to protect society's vulnerable. A difficult question
:05:50. > :05:57.and no answers -- easy answers. I am joined by a representative of
:05:58. > :06:02.the NSPCC, and in Edinburgh, a social work consultant. Has this
:06:02. > :06:06.campaign emerged from the ashes of the Jimmy Savile scandal? Is it a
:06:06. > :06:12.reaction? There is a feeling that very few people acted over Jimmy
:06:12. > :06:17.Savile. The Jimmy Savile case, the
:06:17. > :06:23.appalling facts that have been on cover, have no doubt created a
:06:23. > :06:28.climate where people are asking questions. -- uncover. But it
:06:28. > :06:31.struck a chord in all sorts of ways. People abused by Jimmy Savile
:06:31. > :06:38.decades ago and unable to speak about it we're able to speak about
:06:38. > :06:43.it. Others who suffered unrelated abuse also felt able to speak about
:06:43. > :06:48.it. That raised the issues more widely in the country and we hope
:06:48. > :06:53.very much that this can be a watershed, that we can see our way
:06:53. > :07:01.to protecting children better in the future.
:07:01. > :07:06.You had a tremendous up lift and calls.
:07:06. > :07:10.Yes. People can call our helpline when they are not sure. Over
:07:10. > :07:15.councillors will talk through with them. Where the belief that a
:07:15. > :07:20.serious concern, they will pass the details on, but only when they is
:07:20. > :07:30.serious concern. Do you understand the response of
:07:30. > :07:30.
:07:30. > :07:36.the charity in the wake of the Savell allegations? -- Jimmy Savile.
:07:36. > :07:40.I am all for protecting children, that is not really what my concerns
:07:40. > :07:45.about. But there is a danger that more heat than light is being
:07:45. > :07:51.generated by children's charities in particular, around the issue of
:07:51. > :07:56.child sexual abuse. If there are real dangers with calls to report
:07:56. > :08:02.any and every concern and suspicion to the authorities. To what end? Do
:08:02. > :08:09.we know that this will protect more children or protect children? Might
:08:09. > :08:13.it do more harm than good? The public are not stupid and the 80%
:08:13. > :08:19.that the NSPCC seemed to be critical of four or not reporting
:08:19. > :08:23.concerns immediately had very legitimate worries about doing so.
:08:23. > :08:29.One of them was whether they could trust at any good would come for
:08:29. > :08:36.the child. Are you accusing the charities of
:08:36. > :08:42.creating moral panic? There are elements of moral panic,
:08:42. > :08:49.especially as every day brings a new story about the sexual abuse of
:08:49. > :08:58.children. Which is a problem... I want to pick up on that point.
:08:58. > :09:04.Moral panic or well intentioned? Abuse is hugely under reported. The
:09:04. > :09:09.most extensive study showed that children who are abused sexually in
:09:09. > :09:14.childhood, 72% will not tell anybody during childhood, and many
:09:14. > :09:20.of them won't say anything as an adult. So there is a huge problem
:09:20. > :09:25.and children are not been protected at the moment.
:09:25. > :09:32.We hear about the tremendous under- reporting of abuse from the police,
:09:32. > :09:37.is acting on suspicions not a way to address that?
:09:37. > :09:43.I quite accept that there is under reporting but that once the case
:09:43. > :09:50.much more for information, education, advice. Rather than the
:09:50. > :09:57.call to simply report. Who are we reporting to you? Who are the
:09:57. > :10:01.experts that know what to do? I want to pick up on that point. In
:10:01. > :10:07.England they it Crown Prosecution Service actually apologised for not
:10:08. > :10:11.picking up any prosecutions. What we are saying is serious
:10:11. > :10:18.concerns. People know when something is wrong with a child.
:10:18. > :10:22.They know how an adult behaves when profoundly disturbed. These are
:10:22. > :10:27.concerns we're talking about. We are saying to people, you may well
:10:27. > :10:32.hesitate because you are not absolutely certain, but the nature
:10:32. > :10:37.of sexual abuse is such that abusers will go to extraordinary
:10:37. > :10:41.lengths to conceal what they are doing. Be a very good at convincing
:10:41. > :10:47.the children it is their fault and they will get into trouble for
:10:47. > :10:52.telling anybody. So we really need adults to stand up. Put yourself in
:10:52. > :10:58.the child's shoes. What would they expect you to do? That is the
:10:58. > :11:07.question you should ask yourself. Would you have fate than the
:11:07. > :11:15.authorities once the report is made? -- faith in the authorities?
:11:15. > :11:21.No, but not because I think they are malevolent. Sometimes the
:11:21. > :11:25.result is not good. The idea of experts that we can just be a
:11:25. > :11:32.everything up to, and somehow there is a magic solution, that is not
:11:32. > :11:38.right. I want to pick up another point.
:11:38. > :11:43.Malicious allegations being made, some people could use that as a cue.
:11:43. > :11:48.How can people be protected? There is a difference between
:11:48. > :11:51.acting to protect a child and making an accusation against
:11:51. > :11:55.somebody else. There is a difference between a criminal
:11:55. > :12:02.proceeding and an intervention to make sure that a child is safe and
:12:02. > :12:08.well. Child protection has improved in this country. The police, social
:12:08. > :12:18.workers, the handle this as sensitively as they can. The NSPCC
:12:18. > :12:27.
:12:27. > :12:32.Do you think there should be no anonymous tips? I think he is right,
:12:32. > :12:36.what a hot lines to a helpful, they allow people to discuss concerns so
:12:36. > :12:42.I would say to people that if they are concerned and in need as source
:12:42. > :12:46.of advice they should vote for help line because they can be useful.
:12:46. > :12:50.Where to help lines then say that in reporting rather than discussing
:12:50. > :12:54.your concerns and finding a way forward for that child and for the
:12:54. > :13:00.better protection of children, where there are saying report,
:13:00. > :13:05.report, a report, we have a situation where if an adult
:13:05. > :13:11.particularly a man sees a child lost in the street they tell us,
:13:11. > :13:19.this is a statistic, that they would be scared to help that child.
:13:19. > :13:21.Now, many of the thousands of war memorials across Scotland are set
:13:21. > :13:24.to be renovated or restored to commemorate the country's losses in
:13:24. > :13:28.the Great War, which started a hundred years ago next year. The
:13:28. > :13:32.Scottish government is allocating a million pounds to the project. It
:13:32. > :13:34.is one of several ways the war will be remembered. And of course, last
:13:34. > :13:44.year, David Cameron gave details of how the British government intends
:13:44. > :13:54.
:13:54. > :13:57.It has long been recognised that Scotland made it a sacrifice in the
:13:57. > :14:03.Great War which was disproportionate to the size of its
:14:04. > :14:09.population. The First Minister at chose their Aberdeen Show at
:14:09. > :14:15.village here to make the announcement today. 67 names are on
:14:15. > :14:22.this memorial. They're just from this part of the parish. As far as
:14:22. > :14:26.you can estimate that was one fifth of the young fighting aged men. If
:14:26. > :14:32.you think about that and you know that the casualty rate was almost
:14:32. > :14:40.twice the mortality rate, then probably half of the young fighting
:14:40. > :14:42.men of this village were either killed or injured in the Great War.
:14:42. > :14:46.This is one of the first initiatives have a great number
:14:46. > :14:50.we're going to make, we want to make sure that all memorials in
:14:50. > :14:55.Scotland are in good condition. As good as the highly commended
:14:55. > :15:01.memorial here. Although many are in this sort of condition, many others
:15:01. > :15:08.it could do with a bit of upkeep. So that we can commemorate the
:15:08. > :15:12.extraordinary events in respectful fashion. The Scottish Government's
:15:12. > :15:18.initiative is additional to plans announced by the UK Government.
:15:18. > :15:25.David Cameron launched his ideas last October. Whether it is a
:15:25. > :15:31.series of friendly football match as to mark the truce, or another
:15:31. > :15:35.campaign from the Royal British Legion with their iconic poppies,
:15:35. > :15:39.adding should get out there and make this centenary a truly
:15:39. > :15:44.national moment which mean something in every locality in our
:15:44. > :15:47.country. Some people have questioned if it is appropriate to
:15:47. > :15:57.hold a major commemoration but the start of the conflict rather than
:15:57. > :15:58.
:15:58. > :16:02.to wait for the centenary of the Armistice in 20 team. -- in 2018.
:16:02. > :16:05.I am joined now by Stuart Crawford, a former officer with the Royal
:16:05. > :16:07.Tank Regiment. He is in our Edinburgh studio. And I am joined
:16:07. > :16:17.in Glasgow by Professor Murray Pittock, vice-principal of Glasgow
:16:17. > :16:19.University. Was that the sheer scale the losses that meant this
:16:20. > :16:23.conflict is embedded in our national consciousness? You're
:16:23. > :16:30.absolutely right. To pick up a point from the First Minister, if
:16:30. > :16:38.you exclude Commonwealth dead in the British Total of dead was
:16:38. > :16:43.886,000. The Scottish National War Museum -- memorial in Edinburgh
:16:43. > :16:49.Castle has 180,000 names. 17 or 18% of the casualties were Scottish.
:16:49. > :16:57.The impact was enormous. Should be commemorate the beginning of this
:16:57. > :17:03.conflict rather than the end of it? In a way that is a bit questionable
:17:03. > :17:06.and I can see the reasons for objections. In World War and to be
:17:06. > :17:15.generally commemorate the beginning of the end of the war. -- World War
:17:15. > :17:18.II. World War I was a moment when a huge amount of your it was caught
:17:18. > :17:23.up in a fervour which I think we would want to avoid happening ever
:17:23. > :17:28.again. On the other hand it is the beginning of a period of you
:17:28. > :17:34.sacrifice. Especially for Scotland as we have been hearing, it it was
:17:34. > :17:39.unparalleled. We can see both sides of the argument and it is strange
:17:39. > :17:44.to commemorate the beginning in some ways. Should national
:17:44. > :17:49.commemoration start with the Great War or on Armistice Day? The Great
:17:49. > :17:53.War is the first time that warfare in general became known to the bulk
:17:54. > :18:02.of the jet at -- bulk of the population. Before that British
:18:02. > :18:11.wars were mostly abroad with a small professional army. With their
:18:11. > :18:14.Great War or after 1914 we have the Volunteer movement and after that
:18:14. > :18:20.we had conscription. In many ways it was the first war in which the
:18:20. > :18:29.whole population became involved. The commemoration will come in 20th
:18:29. > :18:36.August 14. That is in the midst of the referendum campaign. -- in 2014.
:18:36. > :18:39.It will it be help sensitively. but I do not think we can make
:18:39. > :18:42.comments on the politics. One thing I hope will be remembered and does
:18:42. > :18:47.not just a UK or Scottish thing, is the extent to which British forces
:18:47. > :18:56.from the British Empire what not just across the world but on the
:18:56. > :19:04.Western Front. We are prone to forget the sacrifices of Australia,
:19:04. > :19:11.New Zealand and Canada and India and troops of other nations. Even
:19:11. > :19:15.more than World War II it was a British Imperial War or and so in a
:19:15. > :19:19.sense it is not just about Britain, or Scotland, it is about the whole
:19:19. > :19:23.of the imperial nations as they then were. To take it as an Anglo-
:19:23. > :19:27.Scottish thing would do an injustice to all the people from
:19:27. > :19:33.across what became the Commonwealth. What kind of a European dimension
:19:33. > :19:38.could there be involving Germany, perhaps? I think that in the spirit
:19:38. > :19:43.of the Christmas truce which has gone down in history as being an
:19:43. > :19:48.interesting and unusual event, I think there's all sorts of scope
:19:49. > :19:55.orange all -- for involving former allies and adversaries in the
:19:55. > :20:00.celebrations. There we can look at the great sacrifice his of previous
:20:00. > :20:07.generations. Bringing in a European dimension would be very appropriate
:20:07. > :20:14.as 100 years approach. It was a very different sense of celebration
:20:14. > :20:19.for the 50th celebration in London in 1995. The First World War as
:20:20. > :20:24.viewed very differently, isn't it? There is no doubt about that. With
:20:24. > :20:33.the hindsight of everyone that fought in it, they are all dead
:20:33. > :20:37.effectively, it was a war that was justified and said it -- -- it was
:20:37. > :20:41.not a war that was justified, it was an appalling conflict. The way
:20:41. > :20:47.we look back at it is bound to be different but it shaped our modern
:20:47. > :20:55.world and that is what we should remember. But you for joining me.
:20:55. > :20:59.Now a quick look at tomorrow's front pages. Millions will lose out
:20:59. > :21:07.in the pensions shake-up say the Herald. And HMV is in