:00:12. > :00:16.with Paris the hosting of a cathedral with a famous hunchback.
:00:16. > :00:18.On Newsnight Scotland: Where are we in the fight against the violence
:00:18. > :00:21.which blights so many of our communities? Tonight I'll be
:00:21. > :00:24.speaking to John Carnochan, who retired on Friday as head of the
:00:24. > :00:27.ground-breaking Violence Reduction Unit. I will be asking him about
:00:27. > :00:30.the changes he has seen in his long police career, and the challenges
:00:30. > :00:40.ahead for our communities, the criminal justice system and the
:00:40. > :00:44.
:00:44. > :00:52.And bonkers for Borgen - just what is it about Danish drama that we
:00:52. > :00:57.love so much? And is the time right Good evening. John Carnochan became
:00:57. > :01:02.a policeman 39 years ago. For the last seven of those, he led the
:01:02. > :01:05.Violence Reduction Unit. And on Friday, he retired. But his work
:01:05. > :01:09.gave him a profile way beyond what might be expected of a detective
:01:09. > :01:12.chief superintendent. The reason, the Violence Reduction Unit
:01:12. > :01:17.appeared to make headway on an age- old and difficult social problem,
:01:17. > :01:27.through a radically different approach. Steve Godden has compiled
:01:27. > :01:35.
:01:35. > :01:42.When the singer Frankie Vaughan turned up in Easterhouse in 1960s
:01:42. > :01:48.to ask gang members to hand in their weapons, it helped to cement
:01:49. > :01:55.Glasgow's reputation. It was the backdrop to much of the John
:01:55. > :02:00.Carnochan's career. Until his retirement last Friday, he was
:02:00. > :02:06.Scotland's longest serving police officer. The last few years have
:02:06. > :02:12.been the most high profile. In 2005 he was picked to head up the
:02:12. > :02:17.Violence Reduction Unit. He tackled the problem as a public health
:02:17. > :02:21.problem, rather than looking at it through law and order. It is not
:02:21. > :02:28.working. We still have the same number of young men involved in
:02:28. > :02:35.this, so let's try and do something else. A statement relating to one
:02:35. > :02:40.of his key concerns, tackling gang violence, part of the strategy
:02:40. > :02:43.involved projects based on a scheme that worked effectively been
:02:43. > :02:51.violence ridden American cities. The scheme was then taken to places
:02:51. > :02:58.like Easterhouse we referred the young people to the project.
:02:58. > :03:02.part of that they then went to what was called a call-out. They were
:03:02. > :03:07.given the option, we can help you to find an employer and other
:03:07. > :03:12.activities, but if you persist in violence, we will jail you. Jimmy
:03:13. > :03:21.Wilson started working on projects in Easterhouse in 2003. He notices
:03:21. > :03:27.a marked difference. If I've looked at the area now, violence is
:03:27. > :03:32.significantly reduced. People being involved in gang violence is much
:03:32. > :03:38.less. The thing about the project is there is a lot of good work
:03:38. > :03:43.getting done on the ground. That work was then pulled together by
:03:43. > :03:49.the project. It still continues now. Not under the banner of the project
:03:49. > :03:54.but just partners walking -- working more closely together.
:03:54. > :04:00.Events like this, encouraging more children to Steer clear of gang
:04:00. > :04:08.violence, is part of the strategy. Domestic violence is another area
:04:08. > :04:11.where high-profile campaigns have signalled a shift in emphasis.
:04:11. > :04:16.Unless we do something about it, really get to grips with the
:04:16. > :04:23.perpetrators of domestic abuse and stop it happening, then Scotland is
:04:23. > :04:31.a society will be poorer. And that is always some of the work that the
:04:31. > :04:37.VRU has done, the men during violence programme has been useful.
:04:37. > :04:44.Recorded crime in Scotland is at a 30 seven-year low. There are also
:04:44. > :04:51.figures showing a drop in violent crime. The personnel may change but
:04:51. > :04:55.the challenges remain. I am joined now by John Carnochan,
:04:55. > :04:59.until Friday the head of Strathclyde Police Violence
:04:59. > :05:05.Reduction Unit. Welcome. You have been a police officer for almost 39
:05:05. > :05:09.years. What big changes have you seen in Scotland's communities? We
:05:09. > :05:14.have gone through some immense social change. There has been a lot
:05:14. > :05:19.of change but as well, it is obvious we have not made a big
:05:19. > :05:23.difference in lots of areas. For a decade we have spent billions of
:05:23. > :05:28.pounds on the most difficult areas, trying to help those who need most
:05:28. > :05:33.help and yet today, we still have inequalities that are much of the
:05:34. > :05:37.same, or poor health, poor education, violence against women
:05:37. > :05:42.and domestic violence. Alcohol is an issue. So whilst we have spent a
:05:42. > :05:46.lot of money and there has been a lot of activity and really good
:05:46. > :05:51.work, I do not think what we have been giving has got the success
:05:51. > :05:58.that really we should have had. in your four decades have you seen
:05:59. > :06:06.any of the problems getting worse? Alcohol is a big thing. Drugs --
:06:06. > :06:10.drugs has always been there. We spent the vast majority are our
:06:10. > :06:15.money on trying to stop drugs coming in. We are an island and we
:06:15. > :06:21.have not managed to do that, anywhere in the UK. And yet we have
:06:21. > :06:25.lots of young people on the poorest housing estates and around the UK
:06:25. > :06:31.who do not take drugs. So why is that? Whilst we have been looking
:06:31. > :06:36.at supplying, we have done very little about the demand end. And we
:06:36. > :06:40.will go into that. Alcohol is just another commodity. When I think
:06:40. > :06:45.about walking into a supermarket and seeing that the amount of
:06:45. > :06:51.alcohol for sale, it is incredible. And the baby except things, the way
:06:51. > :06:58.we speak about drunkenness and alcohol as if it is an OK think,
:06:58. > :07:02.let's just do it. That is the worst. Tapping the alcohol problem is the
:07:02. > :07:11.biggest challenge that your successors will face? It is
:07:11. > :07:19.important, from the VRU's point of view, it is the very much a team
:07:19. > :07:22.game. When you listen to some of the workers... The point is it is
:07:22. > :07:29.not about individuals. It is about co-ordinating services that are
:07:29. > :07:33.already there, joining them up to get some value out of them. The
:07:33. > :07:37.community, the people who are there, affected by the outcome. If we
:07:37. > :07:43.tackle alcohol, the minimum pricing will make a difference for us, but
:07:43. > :07:47.also we need to think about being radical about these things.
:07:47. > :07:53.Challenge people's right to drink. I do not think you have a right to
:07:53. > :07:58.drink. That and if every time you drink, you abuse your wife or
:07:58. > :08:02.children or you fight, maybe we should I knew from drinking.
:08:02. > :08:06.were speaking about community involvement. We saw some of that in
:08:06. > :08:10.the report. How do you engage with communities without patronising
:08:10. > :08:16.them, when there are good folk they're doing good work, how you --
:08:16. > :08:22.how can you support those people? wish I knew a better way because I
:08:22. > :08:26.do not think the 32 health authorities or the 14 health boards
:08:26. > :08:32.-- 32 local authorities, far too good at it. Would professionalise
:08:32. > :08:37.things. We use business models. We are always talking about money, so
:08:37. > :08:42.it somebody is doing something that is really good, wheat
:08:42. > :08:46.professionalise that. And we try to scale it up. The truth of the
:08:46. > :08:51.matter is we need to get much much better. So we are going to see a
:08:51. > :08:54.new national police force from the 1st April, but youth spokes there
:08:54. > :08:59.at the 32 councils, the 14 health boards, do you think there should
:08:59. > :09:03.be a lot of change as well? If the argument for putting the eight
:09:04. > :09:11.police services together and the fire services together, a lot of
:09:11. > :09:14.that was the economy of scale. There is only 5 million of us. Six
:09:14. > :09:19.criminal justice authorities. And yet we need to work in
:09:19. > :09:24.collaboration, so how do you do that? That becomes very difficult.
:09:24. > :09:30.One lots of the energy gets drawn away into working in partnership.
:09:30. > :09:34.If we were really radical about it, maybe if you need five different
:09:34. > :09:39.services to deliver a single outcome, maybe the services are set
:09:39. > :09:45.up wrong. And you do think that one police force is still a good idea,
:09:45. > :09:49.which can deliver services locally? Absolutely. I think there is more
:09:49. > :09:53.localism now because there is no way in the world that one person
:09:53. > :09:57.can have the span of grip across the whole of Scotland. It has been
:09:57. > :10:01.demonstrated at Strathclyde. Everyone knows clearly not the
:10:01. > :10:05.police role is to do. We can do our top and get ourselves on the moral
:10:06. > :10:12.high ground, because no matter how good the police service is, you'll
:10:12. > :10:15.always have violence. A police van is not going to fix it. This is not
:10:15. > :10:20.just a policing issue. And you work with men and women but men are
:10:20. > :10:25.often at the forefront of this kind of violence. Men facing some sort
:10:25. > :10:28.of crisis in the 21st century, do you think? With identity? Has
:10:28. > :10:37.anything changed in your four decades when it comes to dealing
:10:37. > :10:41.with men? I am not sure today that men know what it is to be a man.
:10:41. > :10:46.How do we judge it? What is the role? It is not always breadwinner.
:10:46. > :10:50.Sometimes it is not father. So we have to work that out and see what
:10:50. > :11:00.we can perhaps do to support these young guys who do not know any
:11:00. > :11:10.
:11:10. > :11:13.Even if you have never watched Borgen, you cannot have missed the
:11:13. > :11:20.hype. Sisse Babet Knuusen, who plays the Prime Minister in the
:11:20. > :11:25.series, chant of the Borgen loving masses in Edinburgh yesterday in a
:11:25. > :11:35.tartan suit. Borgen and other Danish series like The Killing and
:11:35. > :11:35.
:11:35. > :11:41.The Bridge have charmed audiences. The career of this states Minister
:11:41. > :11:46.has been very closely followed in Scotland, and not just by those who
:11:46. > :11:49.would like Scottish politics to be closer to the fictional world of
:11:49. > :11:55.Borgen. The high quality dramas have produced by the Danish state
:11:55. > :12:01.broadcaster have gained success beyond their shores. This actress
:12:01. > :12:04.told us there was no foreign production money for Borgen. She
:12:04. > :12:11.seemed there would be no interest abroad but she was delighted by its
:12:12. > :12:16.success. The 30 people who tuned in and watched it, it was like finding
:12:16. > :12:26.a treasure. Anything for -- not from America is exotic committee be
:12:26. > :12:27.
:12:27. > :12:33.wise. Exotica, and TV-wise. It is very words to mouth, the thing has
:12:33. > :12:37.started like that, it was caught at first and it opened up. It makes
:12:37. > :12:44.for more, how do you say? You become very loyal when you feel you
:12:44. > :12:47.are part of discovering this. writers of Borgen acknowledge that
:12:47. > :12:51.the crime drama Taggart was an influence, and the series remains
:12:51. > :12:56.popular in Denmark. What are the other dramas being made in
:12:56. > :13:01.Scotland? The BBC has transplanted Waterloo route -- Waterloo Road
:13:01. > :13:08.north of the border, and has also want it after for the adaptation of
:13:08. > :13:13.the novel, field of blood. There is 0 -- more Nordic Water, the crime
:13:13. > :13:18.drama set in Shetland. If this is your new Scotland, I want not part
:13:18. > :13:22.of it. There has also been little in the way of political drama made
:13:22. > :13:29.to compare with the likes of Scott on the rocks from the 1970s. Of
:13:29. > :13:37.course, we have bought servant. We will wait to see if he is as feted
:13:37. > :13:40.at Holyrood as Sisse Babet Knuusen. I am joined in the studio by the
:13:40. > :13:45.script rider -- script writer Sergio Casci and also by the
:13:45. > :13:49.Scotsman's TV editor Andrea Mullaney. What is it that appeals
:13:49. > :13:54.about Borgen? What is the Scandinavian secret? I do not think
:13:54. > :13:58.it is a secret, it is really simple. Good writing, good acting, and it
:13:58. > :14:02.is right is being allowed to write according to their own lives
:14:02. > :14:07.without too much interference from above. That is the important thing,
:14:07. > :14:11.there is a genuine us about the show. You can tell it's reflect
:14:11. > :14:14.reality. They have understood that for good drama you need good
:14:14. > :14:17.writing, and for good writing you must not be second-guessed by
:14:17. > :14:21.executives who are constantly trying to avoid offending people.
:14:21. > :14:27.It is not a secret recipe, it is something people have known for a
:14:27. > :14:29.long time. Good writing, good acting. It is a question of having
:14:29. > :14:35.the wherewithal and there will be to just let writers get on with
:14:35. > :14:38.their job. Do you agree with that, or do you think there is something
:14:38. > :14:42.about the packaging that we get from these Danish dramas? I do
:14:42. > :14:47.agree in general but the reason that it has been such a hit in
:14:47. > :14:54.Britain is that we are fascinated by the foreign nature of his. Part
:14:54. > :14:57.of the appeal of me -- for me is when something happens, is a
:14:57. > :15:01.dramatic licence or is it Danish cultural differences? You are never
:15:01. > :15:05.quite sure. There are some things, they play around with a realism in
:15:05. > :15:10.the way that journalism is presented, for example, I cannot
:15:10. > :15:15.believe it is like that in Denmark. It is a very good quality programme,
:15:15. > :15:21.although we do not want to get to over the top about it. It is quite
:15:21. > :15:25.a high fibre diet, is that what people are may be looking for? Not
:15:25. > :15:30.the high octane dramas that we can get from America? I think to a
:15:30. > :15:34.certain extent that is true. But it is not so much that, it is more the
:15:34. > :15:38.fact that it is genuine, the characters are genuine and the
:15:38. > :15:42.situations they find themselves in, something appeals to audiences. We
:15:42. > :15:47.have been fed so much high-concept suffer from America especially, the
:15:47. > :15:51.idea that films have to be about massive situations or explosions,
:15:51. > :15:53.but that is not what makes compelling drama. Compelling drama
:15:53. > :15:59.comes from compelling characters and as long as characters are
:15:59. > :16:03.honestly drawn, and as long as there is a willingness to explore
:16:03. > :16:08.their lives accurately, that is what audiences want. They react
:16:08. > :16:12.well to that, they respond to that. We do not have to constantly throw
:16:12. > :16:17.bread and circuses at people. Compelling driver -- drama can be
:16:17. > :16:25.expensive, the Danish licence fee is to have and �65. I think it is
:16:25. > :16:29.even higher than that, -- �265. They do not have a lot of drama in
:16:29. > :16:31.Denmark. We put a lot of money into the few dramas they have, and they
:16:31. > :16:36.work hard on them and they get higher audiences because there are
:16:36. > :16:41.so few original Danish drummers. The rest of the time, there
:16:41. > :16:46.channels are field full of imported American shows and reality shows
:16:46. > :16:52.and sitcom as well. It is not all at the high level of Borgen and The
:16:53. > :16:56.Killing. I want to develop its -- defend it more. I think there is
:16:56. > :17:01.something we can learn, it is something to do with the timidity
:17:01. > :17:04.of our drama industry. They talk about Danish politics, you have got
:17:04. > :17:08.a million people watching domestic Danish politics, which is not any
:17:08. > :17:11.more interesting than ours. In Scotland, it is the most
:17:11. > :17:16.interesting time politically through in 300 years but we do not
:17:16. > :17:21.have a single show about Scottish politics. There is a certain
:17:21. > :17:24.wariness up here about talking about issues such as a national
:17:24. > :17:29.questions. Our executives see it as being site -- slightly radioactive,
:17:29. > :17:33.it is like touching the third rail, they are scared talking about it
:17:33. > :17:37.because they will defend a pressure group. But is what I like about the
:17:37. > :17:41.Danes, they are not scared about offending people. It is not that
:17:41. > :17:46.politics is too important to be dramatised, it is too important not
:17:46. > :17:50.to be dramatised. It is not just about politics, it is about moral
:17:50. > :17:54.questions. Every week, she has to grapple with how far she is
:17:54. > :17:58.prepared to go with compromising her principles. It is about a
:17:58. > :18:02.coalition government, she has to make deals, see how far she can go.
:18:02. > :18:07.You were talking about the Scottish drama, would you like to write one?
:18:07. > :18:12.A few years ago, I wrote a Scottish political thriller, drama series,
:18:12. > :18:16.set just after a Yes vote in the referendum. And I could not give it
:18:16. > :18:20.away. South of the border, there was the reaction, Scottish politics
:18:20. > :18:24.is too parochial, to regional, who would be interested in an
:18:24. > :18:34.independent Scotland? We have to leave it there, thinking of joining
:18:34. > :18:39.
:18:39. > :18:43.me. A very quick look at the papers. That is all we have time for
:18:43. > :18:53.tonight, Gordon will be here with a programme tomorrow. From all of us
:18:53. > :18:58.
:18:58. > :19:04.Hallowed. A break from the winter weather was all too short, it is
:19:04. > :19:08.back. It is a very cold, icy, windy start Tuesday, and some disruptive
:19:08. > :19:12.star or a pass -- snow across parts of northern England, a band of snow
:19:12. > :19:15.in the Pennines, and amber warning from the Met Office, be prepared
:19:15. > :19:21.for destruction. A dry start in south-east England, despite the
:19:21. > :19:26.sunshine it will feel colder. Snow showers in the Moors in the south-
:19:26. > :19:30.west, stormy in Cornwall. Strengthening gusts during Tuesday.
:19:30. > :19:37.There is an area of showers in South West, some accumulating snow
:19:37. > :19:42.could calls -- caused problems. Northern Ireland, fresh snow in
:19:42. > :19:47.places and heavy snow showers in Scotland. Drifting blizzards on the
:19:47. > :19:51.hills, strong to gale-force winds. An amber warning across central and
:19:51. > :19:54.western parts of Scotland. Through Tuesday, rain, sleet and snow goes
:19:54. > :19:58.further south. Sleet and snow to southern areas, not but settling in
:19:58. > :20:03.London because it will come quite late in the day and it will fizzle
:20:04. > :20:08.out. It will feel bitterly cold in the strong winds. Wednesday, and
:20:08. > :20:13.Arctic wind, snow showers to the east. Thursday and Friday, the
:20:13. > :20:17.winds starts to ease a touch. It is still going to feel cold, and an