:00:09. > :00:11.try telling that to people who may be... Tonight on Newsnight Scotland,
:00:11. > :00:16.the SNP government publishes some more of its roadmap towards
:00:16. > :00:21.independence. Will the prospects of an Independence Day in March 2016
:00:21. > :00:24.overshadow the yes campaign's chances? Or open up the prospect of
:00:24. > :00:28.the sunlit uplands of rule from Holyrood? We'll hear the pros and
:00:28. > :00:31.cons from a panel of politicians. Good evening. The document's called
:00:31. > :00:33."Scotland's Future: from the Referendum to Independence and a
:00:33. > :00:35.Written Constitution" and they're suggesting it's a response to the
:00:35. > :00:38.electoral commission's request for information about what will
:00:39. > :00:42.actually happen after the referendum, depending on the result.
:00:42. > :00:46.If it's a yes, according to this paper, most of the mechanics can be
:00:46. > :00:51.dealt with at Holyrood in about 16 months. So independence day could
:00:51. > :01:00.come before the scheduled 2016 Scottish election. The SNP's
:01:00. > :01:06.opponents say this is just more pie in the sky. Steven Godden reports.
:01:06. > :01:11.Wandering along the banks of the Clyde, it seems faintly absurd to
:01:11. > :01:16.mention Scotland in the same breath as Mauritius, the tropical climate
:01:16. > :01:20.seems a world away. But we now know that depending on the outcome of
:01:20. > :01:25.next year's referendum, the two countries could have something in
:01:25. > :01:33.common. The same could be said of Tunisia
:01:33. > :01:39.or Greece. These are countries that celebrate independence during the
:01:39. > :01:45.month of March. Today we learned that if Scots vote yes,
:01:45. > :01:50.Independence Day will also arrive in March in the year 2016, followed
:01:50. > :01:57.by elections to the new independent parliament two months later.
:01:57. > :02:02.Critics say that timetable is absurd. 13 countries have gone
:02:02. > :02:08.through the process of becoming independent following a referendum,
:02:08. > :02:14.the average timescale was 15 months. If all these other countries can do
:02:14. > :02:18.it, why not Scotland? The document is one peppered with
:02:18. > :02:28.historical references, German reunification is an example of
:02:28. > :02:29.
:02:29. > :02:34.speedy transition. Abraham Lincoln also makes an appearance.
:02:34. > :02:38.They say the content would be for the Scottish people to decide, but
:02:38. > :02:43.there are suggestions include enshrining a ban on nuclear weapons
:02:43. > :02:48.and controls on military power. That could be a positive thing that
:02:48. > :02:52.brings the country together after the referendum. People will
:02:52. > :02:56.disagree during the referendum, but afterwards it is important be built
:02:56. > :03:00.to get their what Adam -- independent Scotland is going to
:03:00. > :03:06.become. After what would happen immediately
:03:06. > :03:13.after I just phoned, the paper invokes the spirit of the in --
:03:13. > :03:21.Edinburgh agreement. Establishing what they call a transitional
:03:21. > :03:25.platform would require the UK Government to transfer authority
:03:25. > :03:31.for the Treasury, the court, and retaining the monarchy. There would
:03:31. > :03:41.also be negotiations with international bodies including the
:03:41. > :03:42.
:03:42. > :03:51.EU. The Act of Union of 70 no seven would have to be dissolved, -- 70
:03:51. > :03:54.No 7. There will have to be negotiations, Westminster have to
:03:54. > :04:01.ascent following a verdict from the Scottish people. The details can
:04:01. > :04:04.then go through the people that really matter. The people elected
:04:04. > :04:10.by the people to the Scottish Parliament.
:04:10. > :04:15.Opponents are not impressed. When the SNP cannot tell us what their
:04:15. > :04:20.position now is on currency or pensions or defence caught Europe,
:04:20. > :04:25.they are asking us to believe that they could put all this through in
:04:25. > :04:30.a matter of months. It beggars belief, and it flies in the face of
:04:30. > :04:37.all expert opinion. They are fewer than 300 words to
:04:37. > :04:41.explain the complex task of unravelling a 300 year old union,
:04:41. > :04:46.and establishing a new defence force and security services.
:04:46. > :04:51.We are promised yet more of this in the months to come. I'll be
:04:51. > :04:56.expected to simply sit by our radio every morning waiting for their
:04:56. > :05:01.latest announcement? Than backdrop is the Electoral
:05:01. > :05:05.Commission's call for what will happen after the referendum. UK
:05:05. > :05:13.ministers say they will share information but not Prix negotiate
:05:13. > :05:16.independence. Here is the Scottish Government predicting the date of
:05:16. > :05:24.Scotland's independence, we are getting the cart before the horse.
:05:24. > :05:28.Let us debate the big issues, they are what matters to people across
:05:28. > :05:33.the country. The Scottish Government say they
:05:34. > :05:38.will set out a range of proposals ahead of the White Paper on
:05:38. > :05:42.independence due this year. Meanwhile, next week the UK
:05:42. > :05:50.Government was set to put forward the first in a number of papers of
:05:50. > :05:52.their own. Scrutinising documents is set to become a popular pastime.
:05:52. > :05:55.I'm joined now from Edinburgh by Liberal Democrat leader Willie
:05:55. > :05:58.Rennie, and by Stewart Maxwell of the SNP. Scottish Greens co-
:05:58. > :06:04.convener Patrick Harvie is here in Glasgow, and the Labour MP Gordon
:06:04. > :06:12.Banks is in London. Gordon, what do you make of this
:06:12. > :06:16.timetable? The whole document shows how out of touch the SNP are. You
:06:16. > :06:20.heard the comments from Alistair Darling about the big questions not
:06:20. > :06:25.be answered. I have been at a business event tonight with
:06:25. > :06:30.Scottish businesses, and I can tell they SNP that this is not that talk
:06:30. > :06:35.of the event tonight, the businesses want to know from the
:06:35. > :06:45.SNP what is going to happen in relationship to the currency,
:06:45. > :06:46.
:06:46. > :06:50.borders, defence. The SNP have presided over this launched today
:06:50. > :06:58.whilst they are also presiding over a collapse in the NHS, falling
:06:58. > :07:05.College numbers... They are falling because they are not funding
:07:05. > :07:15.colleges. Patrick, apart from the idea of a written constitution
:07:15. > :07:17.
:07:17. > :07:22.which was announced on while ago, we get another document which is
:07:22. > :07:28.almost entirely about process and not substance. I thought the level
:07:28. > :07:33.of detail was about right. I am not somebody who normally gives the
:07:33. > :07:37.First Minister a lot of praise when he does not deserve it, but I quite
:07:37. > :07:43.welcome this document. We want to give people confidence that if
:07:43. > :07:51.Scotland votes Yes for independence, it will not just be carved up by
:07:51. > :07:55.one political party or even all the parties, we want a process that is
:07:55. > :08:00.inclusive, involving all the people in Scotland in shaping the kind of
:08:00. > :08:04.country that an independent Scotland would become. The
:08:04. > :08:09.Government's idea of floating suggestions like incorporating
:08:09. > :08:13.human rights treaties, a ban on weapons of mass destruction, into a
:08:13. > :08:20.written constitution, I think that is a good starting point for this
:08:20. > :08:29.debate. I will want to contribute ideas myself. Are you looking
:08:29. > :08:34.forward to joining in this process as you but now being invited to?
:08:34. > :08:37.would be responsible politicians in this slim circumstance we were an
:08:37. > :08:42.independent nation. What was missing today was any indication
:08:42. > :08:47.that the SNP might lose the referendum. The Electoral
:08:47. > :08:53.Commission did not want to know the process for Jess, they wanted it
:08:53. > :08:58.for know. But if they lose their referendum, nothing different
:08:58. > :09:06.happens. You cannot begin -- blame them for saying if we win it, quite
:09:06. > :09:11.a lot happens. We eat are in favour of home rule in a federal UK. -- we
:09:11. > :09:17.are in favour. We would like to see the SNP admitting they would join
:09:17. > :09:25.in the consensus that we develop after the referendum.
:09:25. > :09:30.Stewart, there is not a word about what matters if you lose. Would you
:09:30. > :09:38.join with Willie Rennie and others in some sort of agreed form of more
:09:38. > :09:42.devolution in something like that? I am campaigning as well as my
:09:42. > :09:46.colleagues for a Yes vote, and we expect to win next year. But all
:09:46. > :09:52.reasonable politicians will work together for the better of the
:09:52. > :10:00.people of Scotland. That is what we would all do. One which you propose
:10:00. > :10:03.to do should you lose? -- what would you propose. You are
:10:03. > :10:09.expecting the other men to speculate what happens if you win,
:10:09. > :10:15.it does not seem unreasonable for you to speculate about what you
:10:15. > :10:19.would do if you lost. What a we are doing today and what we have done
:10:19. > :10:24.is respond to the reasonable request of the Electoral Commission
:10:24. > :10:31.to publish the pathway towards independence post yes vote. What
:10:31. > :10:41.they said was that that should be done for just -- of the Yes and No
:10:41. > :10:46.
:10:46. > :10:52.sides. They should go away and provide information... Can I ask if
:10:52. > :10:57.there is agreement on something factual, there is an election been
:10:57. > :11:02.2015, a general election. What happens if Scotland has already
:11:02. > :11:08.voted Yes to independence? Presumably the -- we vote for a
:11:08. > :11:16.bunch of MPs, and then on this Independence Day they say, that is
:11:16. > :11:23.it and they resign? Alex Salmond would have to tell you that, but I
:11:23. > :11:28.presume yes, Scotland would have to be governed in the period from 2015
:11:28. > :11:32.through to Independence Day, and part of that would be from Scotland
:11:32. > :11:37.sending electoral representatives to Westminster. And you would
:11:37. > :11:43.except but they should all step down? In the will of the Scottish
:11:43. > :11:47.people has been expressed as wishing to become an independent
:11:47. > :11:51.state, there would be no representation from Scotland done
:11:51. > :11:59.to the UK parliament because Scotland's affairs would be 100%
:11:59. > :12:08.managed by an independent country. So what if there was a narrow
:12:08. > :12:15.majority for independence and not a big turnout, and a majority of MPs
:12:15. > :12:19.returned in 2015 were from parties that did not want independence?
:12:19. > :12:27.we have been so strong in relation to the electoral commission in
:12:27. > :12:32.wanting to get the SNP to accept what they suggested, is that no
:12:32. > :12:39.player in this referendum can actually call file of the process.
:12:39. > :12:47.Stewart, that is your understanding, you would elect a bunch of MPs and
:12:47. > :12:52.they would resign. Patrick, did you understand what this constitutional
:12:52. > :12:57.platform is? The argument from the Scottish Government is that there
:12:57. > :13:02.would be a transition process. I think that is probably right. You
:13:02. > :13:08.need to have clearly a sense of momentum, as sense of building a
:13:08. > :13:13.constitution. It will not suddenly come into being overnight. In order
:13:13. > :13:21.to avoid a period when Government's power would be unfettered, Dennis
:13:21. > :13:27.to be a transition. His is easy to see this gradual transition of
:13:27. > :13:30.powers over bits, like the welfare system, but presumably any
:13:30. > :13:35.commitments that the British Government made in international
:13:35. > :13:42.affairs would be binding in Scotland as well? They would have
:13:42. > :13:48.effect in that time in Scotland... But for example should there be a
:13:48. > :13:58.major crisis in the Middle East, should Britain get involved?
:13:58. > :14:15.
:14:15. > :14:19.would have an effect in Scotland as It is not the SNP, or the Scottish
:14:19. > :14:21.Parliament could determine what happens next, it is the UK
:14:21. > :14:30.Parliament which it had the power to determine whether there is space
:14:30. > :14:34.to debate further devolution. About union membership of the European
:14:34. > :14:38.Union, there would bein the political landscape for the debate
:14:38. > :14:45.about the Scottish Parliament. Everybody will have to debate what
:14:45. > :14:52.will happen with yes vote. If there is a no vote, my fear is that it is
:14:52. > :14:57.2014 are nothing. He is trying to but in. Presumably, you would quite
:14:57. > :15:01.like the idea of a written constitution? That is what Liberal
:15:01. > :15:06.Democrats have campaigned for for some time. The SNP eight love
:15:06. > :15:11.talking about this. The love getting into the detail of when
:15:11. > :15:16.exactly we become independent, what relationship we will have. What we
:15:16. > :15:20.need to resolve are more substantial matters, what happens
:15:20. > :15:25.to the soldier who is in the UK Regiment and has to make a choice
:15:25. > :15:28.between fighting for a Scottish defence force and the remainder of
:15:28. > :15:35.the UK Defence Force? That is the kind of choice I do not think we
:15:35. > :15:39.should cut any soldier under. understand that is an issue but I
:15:39. > :15:43.am not clear about it being fair to criticise the Scottish government
:15:43. > :15:48.for not dealing with that issue in a document which does not even
:15:48. > :15:52.pretend to have anything to do with that? This is the stuff they laugh.
:15:52. > :16:02.They'll let for the chance after the Electoral Commission
:16:02. > :16:05.
:16:05. > :16:10.announcement. This is a flimsy... This is not a serious proposition.
:16:10. > :16:16.This is a flimsy 20 page document which talks about taking up the
:16:16. > :16:22.United Kingdom. This is not responsible. I an issue which has
:16:22. > :16:26.already come up, your critics say you have misunderstood what written
:16:27. > :16:31.constitutions are about. They are there to embody fundamental rights
:16:31. > :16:37.but also of things like three Higher Education, that should be
:16:37. > :16:41.the SNP manifest and not in the constitution. You are proposing
:16:41. > :16:48.things for a constitution which are SNP policy, that is slightly
:16:48. > :16:52.worrying. I've not sure it is worrying at all. We have said that
:16:52. > :16:59.political parties and sick Scotland in general should get involved in
:16:59. > :17:04.the process. But you do not embody in constitutions things which are
:17:04. > :17:08.about debate for political parties. I agree with that. But everyone
:17:08. > :17:14.should bring what they think should be in that constitution to the
:17:14. > :17:17.table and we can again. You do not understand, that is not what
:17:17. > :17:23.constitutions are. You do not have a meeting of different cart --
:17:23. > :17:27.different parties. I am not suggesting it is about to wins the
:17:27. > :17:33.election. We should all agree what should be the fundamental
:17:33. > :17:36.principles included in a written constitution by a future Scotland.
:17:36. > :17:41.I heard Patrick Harvie talking about many of them today and I
:17:41. > :17:47.agreed with them. You can have one sentence because they're out to end
:17:47. > :17:50.the programme. For a period of about a month, Scotland will have a
:17:50. > :17:56.new Defence Secretary and Foreign Secretary, even before the election
:17:56. > :18:04.for a new independent Scotland. That is a dangerous precedent.
:18:04. > :18:11.not again. Thank you very much. We have to leave it there. A quick
:18:11. > :18:21.look at the papers. The Scotsman covers Scotland's date with destiny.
:18:21. > :18:24.
:18:24. > :18:33.The Times leader on same-sex marriage. Good night. $:/ENDFEED.
:18:33. > :18:42.$:/STARTFEED. No end jet to the current cold spell. We have an
:18:42. > :18:50.Arctic winter contend with tomorrow. Plenty of hail and snow on high
:18:50. > :18:55.ground. It will brighten up for a time in the morning. Strong winds
:18:55. > :19:00.in western regions during the day. Showers across south-west England
:19:00. > :19:03.Showers across south-west England and Wales. Wintry showers on higher
:19:03. > :19:07.ground. Showers continue in Cornwall and Pembrokeshire.
:19:07. > :19:12.Elsewhere will have sunshine. Some brightness in Northern Ireland
:19:12. > :19:16.first thing but a few showers to contend with. Icy patches possible
:19:16. > :19:20.for northern England and Scotland. So showers in Northern Scotland
:19:20. > :19:28.which will accumulate. Wintry share was run-down eastern coast and
:19:28. > :19:34.regions. -- wintry showers down eastern coastal regions. Increasing
:19:34. > :19:40.sunshine, but it will feel bitter under that Arctic winter. Showers
:19:40. > :19:45.are accumulating in East Anglia on Wednesday night. The showers ease