:00:10. > :00:14.control they said they had. Thank Tonight on Newsnight Scotland. A
:00:14. > :00:18.fillip for the "Yes" campaign. The latest poll shows some progress
:00:18. > :00:21.after months of reverses. But it's also a fillip for this woman.
:00:21. > :00:24.Nicola Sturgeon is not only more popular than Alistair Darling - the
:00:24. > :00:30.leader of the Unionist campaign - she's also more popular than her
:00:30. > :00:33.own boss, Alex Salmond. Also this evening: For these are my
:00:33. > :00:37.mountains - but possibly for not much longer. After the latest death
:00:37. > :00:45.on the hills we discuss whether the time has come to restrict access to
:00:45. > :00:48.some of Scotland's best-loved but Good evening. In politics, as in
:00:48. > :00:52.business, when things go wrong, one of the guiding maxims of leadership
:00:52. > :01:02.is "deputy heads must roll". But you'll be unlikely to hear that
:01:02. > :01:03.
:01:03. > :01:06.from the lips of Alex Salmond. He appreciates his deputy. After all,
:01:06. > :01:09.he's put Nicola Sturgeon in charge of his government's plans for the
:01:09. > :01:12.referendum - one of the first tasks of which was to, well, clarify the
:01:12. > :01:15.fact that he hadn't sought legal advice about an independent
:01:15. > :01:18.Scotland's membership of the European Union. But while the
:01:18. > :01:20.prominence being given to the Deputy First Minister may reflect
:01:20. > :01:28.her strengths, could it also reflect the First Minister's
:01:28. > :01:32.weaknesses? Here's Suzanne Allen. From fresh-faced solicitor to MSP
:01:32. > :01:40.to Deputy First Minister, the rise of Nicola Sturgeon has been steady
:01:40. > :01:50.and unsurprising. Those who know her say she is tenacious, thorough
:01:50. > :01:55.and likeable. Are we seeing her turn into a soft centre? We can a
:01:55. > :02:05.reveal the names of the 100 women who have made it onto the first
:02:05. > :02:07.
:02:07. > :02:10.panel. This was readier 4's Woman's Today, a poll shows she is
:02:10. > :02:17.outscoring not only the better to get the campaign leader Alastair
:02:17. > :02:21.Darling but crucially, her own boss, Alex Salmond. The level of
:02:21. > :02:29.satisfaction with both Nicola Sturgeon and an excellent are the
:02:29. > :02:32.same. 50% of Scots tell us they are happy with both of them. More
:02:32. > :02:42.people seem to beat is dissatisfied with Alex Salmond then they are
:02:42. > :02:43.
:02:43. > :02:47.They're always had a good working relationship. Maybe just as well,
:02:48. > :02:51.having been put in charge of the referendum brief, it was left to
:02:51. > :02:57.her to clear up the mess about whether legal advice had been
:02:57. > :03:07.sought on EU membership. Scottish government has previously
:03:07. > :03:08.
:03:08. > :03:11.cited authority past and present... Order! In support a bid to view
:03:11. > :03:17.that an independent Scotland will continue in membership of the
:03:17. > :03:22.European Union but has not sought legal advice. However... So will
:03:22. > :03:29.Alex Salmond be worried she has overtaken him in the polls? And not
:03:29. > :03:36.in the slightest, he is still the head honcho in the campaign and
:03:36. > :03:40.Nicola is an able deputy. The fact she is playing well the public is
:03:40. > :03:44.nothing but good for the SNP. They are just concerned with showing the
:03:44. > :03:49.people they can run the country competently, which they are doing
:03:49. > :03:57.reasonably well according to these a distraction ratings, and
:03:57. > :04:07.independence. Marie Ritchie is not surprised she is where she is. She
:04:07. > :04:07.
:04:07. > :04:12.has a persuasive woman. -- she is a persuasive woman. She is a good
:04:12. > :04:17.speaker, parade difficult to trip up. I cannot recall Nicola Sturgeon
:04:17. > :04:21.been tripped up by an awkward question by anybody. She has
:04:21. > :04:25.proving herself in the past by winning Governor of all places.
:04:25. > :04:30.That was an extraordinary feat for a young woman from the SNP to be
:04:30. > :04:37.able to go into a place, hard, Oban Glasgow constituency and take more
:04:37. > :04:43.than half of the vote, 54% she one in that -- she won in that
:04:43. > :04:47.constituency. When she stepped down after five years as health minister,
:04:47. > :04:49.it was acknowledged at she had done a good job. It was only when she
:04:49. > :04:55.had left the post that her achievements started being
:04:55. > :05:01.questioned. Were she misleading Parliament or she just incompetent
:05:01. > :05:11.and not on top of her job? Perhaps it attacks on her past record
:05:11. > :05:13.
:05:13. > :05:18.reflect opposition of nervousness about her current role. Now she is
:05:18. > :05:21.a polished, well turned out before. I know it is not fashionable to
:05:21. > :05:25.talk about appearance, but she looks much better and exudes
:05:25. > :05:33.confidence which he didn't have 20 years ago. She is much,, less
:05:33. > :05:41.likely to look... She looks like a woman who is in charge of her brief
:05:41. > :05:45.and knows what she is about. time for succession is not now.
:05:45. > :05:50.Alex Salmond has walked away from the leadership before, but there is
:05:50. > :05:53.no chance he would do that before the referendum. When he does go, it
:05:53. > :06:03.is to be good see anybody better placed to take over the job than
:06:03. > :06:06.the current to bitty. -- it is Joining me now from Edinburgh is
:06:06. > :06:09.Margo Macdonald - and erstwhile SNP colleague of Nicola Sturgeon, who,
:06:09. > :06:19.of course, memorably won the Govan seat for the nationalists in 1973
:06:19. > :06:19.
:06:19. > :06:25.when Ms Sturgeon was just three years old. I said erstwhile! Higher
:06:25. > :06:28.in Surrey, I missed that! -- IM sorry. I'm also joined here in
:06:28. > :06:37.Glasgow by Moray Macdonald, a former Conservative party adviser,
:06:37. > :06:42.who's now the Managing Director of Webber Shandwick. Nicola Sturgeon,
:06:42. > :06:48.was are you saying that Alex Salmond is taking more of a subdued
:06:48. > :06:51.role now? I think he has to come up the opinion poll figures we are
:06:52. > :06:56.seeing it in today's poll demonstrate what I think the SNP
:06:56. > :07:00.have known for a long time, Nicola Sturgeon's popularity is rising and
:07:00. > :07:07.Alex Salmond is falling dramatically. He used to have a
:07:07. > :07:13.positive rating of about plus 35 and he is now only at plus seven.
:07:13. > :07:16.That is causing him a problem. They know that he is much easier to
:07:16. > :07:20.attack for the opposition, there is a feeling in some quarters that the
:07:20. > :07:24.SNP have taken their eye of the ball in government. Before the last
:07:24. > :07:29.election they were recognised as the party that knew how to govern
:07:29. > :07:35.Scotland. They're still doing quite fall in poll ratings for how you
:07:35. > :07:42.would vote in an election. They are doing quite well, but he is not
:07:42. > :07:47.doing well, he is below the net positive rating of Johann Lamont.
:07:47. > :07:53.That is unbelievable considering the amount of airtime he get. The
:07:53. > :07:57.other problem around Alex summoned his he is not popular with women.
:07:57. > :08:02.The Independent's argument is definitely not popular with women.
:08:02. > :08:07.About 61% of women would say no in an independence referendum today,
:08:07. > :08:12.much higher than the average population. So there is a problem
:08:12. > :08:19.there. It is not just about him, it is partly about questions cover
:08:19. > :08:21.women are more likely to be against the idea of separation. And I think
:08:21. > :08:31.also the aggressive danger of the campaign is probably not going
:08:31. > :08:32.
:08:32. > :08:37.across well. You cannot argue with me calling you your name! I love
:08:37. > :08:43.him to bits. Before he came on Kabyle ask Bicester, to what did
:08:43. > :08:48.she attributes the change in the polls, she said, very easy. Michael
:08:48. > :08:54.Moore, Michael Moore and the other one with silver hair. I'm afraid
:08:54. > :08:57.that although I think Nicola has been playing a blinder recently, I
:08:57. > :09:02.think the part played by the No campaign in persuading us it would
:09:02. > :09:08.rain every day of the week and we would have nothing deeds and there
:09:08. > :09:16.would be no call for the fire, I think folk are bad enough of it. --
:09:16. > :09:19.there would be nothing to eat. think about your perception, is it
:09:20. > :09:27.that Nicola Sturgeon is now playing a relatively more important role
:09:27. > :09:33.that she was in the past and Alex Selman displaying less an important
:09:34. > :09:41.role? -- Alex Salmond. I think he has cottoned on to the idea of the
:09:41. > :09:48.liquid -- delegating power. He has been playing a very good game as
:09:48. > :09:55.well. The younger ones are coming through now and therefore it is not
:09:55. > :10:00.just Nicola who has been pushed out in front both hit -- in front of a
:10:00. > :10:10.mix-up. There is a team building up, I am glad to see, I might have been
:10:10. > :10:21.
:10:21. > :10:25.the SNP but I want to see it They have a stronger team and it is
:10:25. > :10:30.to an extent the same. Younger ones are coming through the ranks who
:10:30. > :10:36.are very good. I think the fundamental problem is that Alex
:10:36. > :10:44.Salmond is seen as the SNP government. His satisfaction
:10:44. > :10:47.ratings are falling. I will give a warning. This is one opinion poll
:10:47. > :10:57.that showed support for independence back at the level
:10:57. > :11:02.
:11:02. > :11:10.where it has been for 20 years. But it is only one. Do you agree there
:11:10. > :11:17.is any substance? I think there is some substance to it. It is only
:11:17. > :11:26.one. It is on the actual question of yes and no. 4% have gone up over
:11:26. > :11:30.the course of the Year. Look at the number of people who do not know.
:11:30. > :11:35.There is a huge amount of people, most of them women, who are waiting
:11:35. > :11:41.to see and what they are seeing from the no side is driving them to
:11:41. > :11:50.drink. Oh, no, we are not allowed to drink now! But it is driving
:11:50. > :11:58.them to drink. It is 11%, which is not high, but don't knows. What is
:11:58. > :12:03.interesting is the differential between men and women. Men are more
:12:03. > :12:07.switched on to the idea of independence. What is fascinating
:12:07. > :12:14.is between deprived and affluent areas, in deprived areas there is a
:12:14. > :12:19.propensity for people to vote yes and in affluent areas it is 65% to
:12:20. > :12:23.say they will vote no. If you live in the East End of Glasgow and you
:12:23. > :12:29.have to look forward to cuts that are coming, we know we cannot
:12:30. > :12:36.escape them. We will get more of what we have got, only worse. You
:12:36. > :12:43.would vote yes, as well. I think Labour have a problem. The campaign
:12:43. > :12:48.will rely on Labour to get out the vote. In the deprived areas,
:12:48. > :12:55.traditional Labour heartlands, if they are voting yes in bigger
:12:55. > :13:04.numbers, there is a problem for that campaign. Scottish MPs have a
:13:04. > :13:10.good chance of voting yes. Something you can both agree on is
:13:10. > :13:20.that while the latest opinion poll might not reflect an not turn in
:13:20. > :13:29.the vote for independence, it will have to up to earn more than that -
:13:29. > :13:36.- upturn. What should the priorities be? They do need a step
:13:36. > :13:41.change. What do they do to get it? The yes crowd were caught off guard
:13:41. > :13:48.by the speed and momentum that build up before they had prepared.
:13:48. > :13:52.There was no proper planning. This is why I was talking for months,
:13:52. > :13:58.get out a stream of information that is as level as you can make it,
:13:58. > :14:05.do not make it partizan at this stage, get the basic facts out.
:14:05. > :14:11.That was overtaken by events. I think they are getting it together.
:14:12. > :14:17.I think they are pacing themselves. They know when the white paper will
:14:17. > :14:21.go out and when the information will go out on different aspects of
:14:21. > :14:28.the negotiations. One thing I wish they would not do and that is
:14:28. > :14:34.danced to the tune of experts to come in and say the United Nations,
:14:34. > :14:37.they will not have you, neither will the European Union, and even
:14:37. > :14:45.the Organisation for African Unity, they would probably not much care
:14:45. > :14:49.you. That is nonsense. That poor man, James Mitchell, admitted, he
:14:50. > :14:56.said no, of course the United Nations would have us. The European
:14:57. > :15:01.Union would be an easy negotiation. The timescale was just about right.
:15:01. > :15:05.The no campaign, what do you do? Do you keep going or do something
:15:05. > :15:10.radical? The debate has moved on. We are not talking about mechanics,
:15:10. > :15:15.we are talking about policy and it is all about the economy. Both
:15:15. > :15:23.sides have got to be able to put an argument over to win people over.
:15:23. > :15:26.Neither have done that yet. shall leave it on that thought.
:15:26. > :15:29.Few can doubt the dangers posed by climbing on Scotland's mountains.
:15:29. > :15:33.But the recent deaths on our hills have brought the issue into sharp
:15:33. > :15:35.focus. It seems the risks are doing little to put people off, and
:15:35. > :15:37.that's led to calls from some quarters to start restricting
:15:37. > :15:42.access to our mountains. The attraction of the mountain
:15:42. > :15:47.Straw's climbers from around the world every year. Those coming to
:15:47. > :15:53.experience the beauty must deal with its hidden dangers. Last
:15:53. > :15:58.weekend, a 31-year-old man from Yorkshire became the 7th hill
:15:58. > :16:02.walker to die on Scottish mountains this year. He was climbing in the
:16:02. > :16:07.Cairngorms with friends who were rescued by helicopter. In January,
:16:07. > :16:13.another man was killed in the Cairngorms and another died while
:16:13. > :16:23.climbing on Ben Davies. Their deaths came after an avalanche
:16:23. > :16:23.
:16:23. > :16:33.killed four climbers -- Nevis. Despite an increase in warnings,
:16:33. > :16:37.there are few signs that mountaineers are deter it. In 2011,
:16:37. > :16:43.there were 52 deaths on Scottish hills. There is the cost and the
:16:43. > :16:50.risk to rescuers. More than 1,000 volunteers make up the 25 Scottish
:16:50. > :16:54.rescue teams. There are Street police teams and two RAF teams and
:16:54. > :17:01.a Scottish cave rescue team. They all rely on donations. Is it time
:17:01. > :17:06.to restrict access? Do the challenges and rewards offered by
:17:06. > :17:08.the mountains out weigh the risks? Joining me now is Dorothy Grace
:17:08. > :17:12.Elder, who wants tighter restrictions on access the
:17:12. > :17:19.mountains. Also Paul Cunningham, a mountaineering instructor. What is
:17:19. > :17:25.it you want? There should be a period of about one year in which
:17:25. > :17:33.the Scottish mountaineering Council really gets tough. I look at the
:17:33. > :17:38.website with good information about weather. But it is not saying, look,
:17:38. > :17:47.this is the death toll in the last number of years, it is horrendous,
:17:47. > :17:53.do not go in Bad weather. This is madness. All of the people who have
:17:53. > :17:57.been killed this year, as far as I can see were fairly experienced.
:17:57. > :18:02.This is not people going with the wrong equipment and not knowing
:18:02. > :18:08.what they are doing. What we are doing is letting people go on the
:18:08. > :18:13.mountains with not enough warnings. People are coming from England,
:18:13. > :18:16.Wales and Ireland. They do not know these mountain so well and they are
:18:16. > :18:22.less likely to turn back because they have travelled hundreds of
:18:22. > :18:27.miles to go to Scotland. They will go on where maybe a local person
:18:27. > :18:34.would turn back. We need to protect these people. Are we protecting
:18:34. > :18:44.tourism? Do we want it to become to Scotland and died? That is what we
:18:44. > :18:45.
:18:45. > :18:50.are getting. The figures are appalling. What is your take on the
:18:50. > :19:00.idea of restrictions? It is basically ridiculous to restrict
:19:00. > :19:00.
:19:00. > :19:04.freedom of access. There are accidents and tragedies happen. But
:19:04. > :19:10.there are tragedies when you can walk out of their house and be hit
:19:10. > :19:15.by a car, things can happen to you. People need the access. There is a
:19:15. > :19:20.lot of good information and educational courses. There are
:19:20. > :19:29.mountain safety courses. Why do people want to go out in bad
:19:29. > :19:32.weather? In extremely bad weather, you are probably right, you get to
:19:32. > :19:38.university clubs and people coming from far away and they have one
:19:38. > :19:43.weekend to do something and they get goal orientated and perhaps get
:19:43. > :19:49.themselves into trouble. I remember years ago making a film on this
:19:50. > :19:55.issue. One thing that came out of that was that people involved in
:19:55. > :20:00.mountain rescue say that people do not understand when you take things
:20:00. > :20:09.like wind chill into account, being on a Scottish mountain can be a
:20:09. > :20:13.hostile environment. It can be a volatile environment. Somewhere
:20:13. > :20:19.like the Alps are more stable and colder but more predictable and
:20:19. > :20:23.here they are less predictable. people not understand that? There
:20:23. > :20:28.are very few mountaineers who have been out for any length of time who
:20:28. > :20:35.are not aware of the risks of going out to the mountains and they
:20:35. > :20:42.accept those risks. Generally it is not through lack of experience,
:20:42. > :20:46.they are genuinely -- generally well-equipped. If they had a
:20:46. > :20:50.certificate they had to pass, they probably would pass them and yet
:20:50. > :20:56.accidents do happen. Of course, there is a risk and that is why
:20:56. > :21:01.people do it. But there are different risks. This is a suicide
:21:02. > :21:10.mission in very bad weather. If you spoke to some of the mountain
:21:10. > :21:20.rescue people, they Armand and ears. Many of them -- they are
:21:20. > :21:20.
:21:20. > :21:25.mountaineers. But there are not enough strong warnings. The
:21:25. > :21:32.dreadful tragedy occurs, four people in one incident, two of them
:21:32. > :21:37.young doctors the other two graduates. They have probably put
:21:37. > :21:44.25 years into their education. They are wiped out not in a noble cause
:21:44. > :21:54.of rescuing somebody from a war zone. Do these people have any
:21:54. > :21:56.
:21:56. > :22:00.special insurance? You do not have to have insurance in this country.
:22:00. > :22:10.But if you are a member of the British mountaineering Council you
:22:10. > :22:16.will have some form of insurance. It is a fairly safe bets... Should
:22:16. > :22:21.there be insurance? They should be, that is a minor thing to achieve.
:22:21. > :22:26.We are not just risking voluntary rescue teams, we are risking the
:22:26. > :22:31.police, air-sea rescue and, after this tragedy, there will be more
:22:31. > :22:35.human sacrifice for the selfish pleasure of a few. We will have to
:22:35. > :22:41.leave it there. On the front pages, leave it there. On the front pages,
:22:41. > :22:45.in the Daily Mail, the plight of pensioners. More than half the
:22:45. > :22:51.Scottish people will be forced to keep on working after 65 because
:22:51. > :23:01.they cannot afford to retire. And the meat scandal in the Daily