:00:03. > :00:13.power to get you to achieve. That is what is important. Sir Michael,
:00:13. > :00:17.
:00:17. > :00:18.Good evening. It doesn't really Good evening. It doesn't really
:00:18. > :00:19.Good evening. It doesn't really matter how you do the arithmetic,
:00:19. > :00:20.matter how you do the arithmetic, matter how you do the arithmetic,
:00:20. > :00:21.the statistics for child poverty the statistics for child poverty
:00:21. > :00:22.the statistics for child poverty make depressing reading and they
:00:22. > :00:22.make depressing reading and they make depressing reading and they
:00:22. > :00:24.reach into virtually every corner reach into virtually every corner
:00:24. > :00:28.reach into virtually every corner of the United Kingdom. Why is
:00:28. > :00:28.of the United Kingdom. Why is of the United Kingdom. Why is
:00:28. > :00:30.poverty such an intractable problem poverty such an intractable problem
:00:30. > :00:32.poverty such an intractable problem poverty such an intractable problem
:00:32. > :00:33.in some areas? Is throwing money at in some areas? Is throwing money at
:00:33. > :00:37.in some areas? Is throwing money at in some areas? Is throwing money at
:00:38. > :00:38.the problem the way to deal with the problem the way to deal with
:00:39. > :00:40.the problem the way to deal with that? The Campaign to End Child
:00:40. > :00:40.that? The Campaign to End Child that? The Campaign to End Child
:00:40. > :00:41.Poverty has compiled a new report Poverty has compiled a new report
:00:42. > :00:42.which indicates almost one-in-five which indicates almost one-in-five
:00:43. > :00:44.which indicates almost one-in-five children in the UK lives in
:00:44. > :00:45.children in the UK lives in children in the UK lives in
:00:45. > :00:46.relative poverty. Parts of Scotland, relative poverty. Parts of Scotland,
:00:46. > :00:56.relative poverty. Parts of Scotland, mainly Glasgow, are at the bottom
:00:56. > :01:00.
:01:01. > :01:03.mainly Glasgow, are at the bottom end of the scale.
:01:03. > :01:04.end of the scale. end of the scale.
:01:04. > :01:05.They calculate child poverty by a They calculate child poverty by a
:01:05. > :01:06.They calculate child poverty by a strip board equation. If the child
:01:06. > :01:08.strip board equation. If the child strip board equation. If the child
:01:08. > :01:09.strip board equation. If the child lives in a household which is less
:01:09. > :01:11.lives in a household which is less lives in a household which is less
:01:11. > :01:11.lives in a household which is less than 60 % of the national income,
:01:11. > :01:14.than 60 % of the national income, than 60 % of the national income,
:01:14. > :01:15.the child lives in poverty. About the child lives in poverty. About
:01:15. > :01:17.the child lives in poverty. About the child lives in poverty. About
:01:17. > :01:18.20 % of households fall into that 20 % of households fall into that
:01:18. > :01:19.20 % of households fall into that category. It doesn't matter for
:01:19. > :01:21.category. It doesn't matter for category. It doesn't matter for
:01:21. > :01:23.this purpose if your income this purpose if your income
:01:23. > :01:28.this purpose if your income includes out-of-work benefits or in
:01:28. > :01:28.includes out-of-work benefits or in includes out-of-work benefits or in
:01:29. > :01:30.work tax credits. They have colour- work tax credits. They have colour-
:01:30. > :01:32.work tax credits. They have colour- coded Scotland to draw attention to
:01:32. > :01:33.coded Scotland to draw attention to coded Scotland to draw attention to
:01:33. > :01:34.an unsurprising fact. Blue other an unsurprising fact. Blue other
:01:34. > :01:36.an unsurprising fact. Blue other local authorities in which child
:01:36. > :01:37.local authorities in which child local authorities in which child
:01:37. > :01:39.local authorities in which child poverty is less than 20 %, pink is
:01:39. > :01:41.poverty is less than 20 %, pink is poverty is less than 20 %, pink is
:01:41. > :01:42.poverty is less than 20 %, pink is poverty is less than 20 %, pink is
:01:42. > :01:44.20 % to 30 %, and read his glass go 20 % to 30 %, and read his glass go
:01:44. > :01:47.20 % to 30 %, and read his glass go were around a third of children
:01:47. > :01:48.were around a third of children were around a third of children
:01:48. > :01:49.live in relative poverty. Scotland live in relative poverty. Scotland
:01:49. > :01:51.live in relative poverty. Scotland compares reasonably well with the
:01:51. > :01:52.compares reasonably well with the compares reasonably well with the
:01:52. > :01:54.compares reasonably well with the rest of the UK, but Glasgow north-
:01:54. > :01:55.rest of the UK, but Glasgow north- east parliamentary constituency is
:01:55. > :01:58.east parliamentary constituency is east parliamentary constituency is
:01:58. > :01:59.east parliamentary constituency is one of the very worst in Britain at
:01:59. > :02:01.one of the very worst in Britain at one of the very worst in Britain at
:02:01. > :02:02.one of the very worst in Britain at 43 % poverty. It is in the same
:02:02. > :02:03.43 % poverty. It is in the same 43 % poverty. It is in the same
:02:03. > :02:04.43 % poverty. It is in the same boat as part of Belfast, and only a
:02:04. > :02:05.boat as part of Belfast, and only a boat as part of Belfast, and only a
:02:05. > :02:08.percentage point away from parts of percentage point away from parts of
:02:08. > :02:10.percentage point away from parts of London and Liverpool. Only a part
:02:10. > :02:12.London and Liverpool. Only a part London and Liverpool. Only a part
:02:12. > :02:15.of Manchester is measurably worse. of Manchester is measurably worse.
:02:15. > :02:16.of Manchester is measurably worse. Little of this is surprising.
:02:16. > :02:16.Little of this is surprising. Little of this is surprising.
:02:16. > :02:19.Little of this is surprising. Whitney has less than 10 % jump
:02:19. > :02:20.Whitney has less than 10 % jump Whitney has less than 10 % jump
:02:20. > :02:21.poverty, while the Sheffield seat poverty, while the Sheffield seat
:02:21. > :02:22.poverty, while the Sheffield seat poverty, while the Sheffield seat
:02:22. > :02:29.is even better off, with less than is even better off, with less than
:02:29. > :02:31.is even better off, with less than 5%. Orkney and Shetland have the
:02:31. > :02:34.5%. Orkney and Shetland have the 5%. Orkney and Shetland have the
:02:34. > :02:34.lowest levels of child poverty in lowest levels of child poverty in
:02:34. > :02:35.lowest levels of child poverty in Scotland. So, what does it all
:02:35. > :02:37.Scotland. So, what does it all Scotland. So, what does it all
:02:37. > :02:39.Scotland. So, what does it all mean? The good news is that the
:02:39. > :02:40.mean? The good news is that the mean? The good news is that the
:02:40. > :02:42.number show an improvement up to number show an improvement up to
:02:42. > :02:43.number show an improvement up to 2011. The charity who have compiled
:02:43. > :02:44.2011. The charity who have compiled 2011. The charity who have compiled
:02:44. > :02:46.2011. The charity who have compiled the report fear that trend has been
:02:46. > :02:47.the report fear that trend has been the report fear that trend has been
:02:47. > :02:48.the report fear that trend has been reversed. A drop in real income was
:02:48. > :02:50.reversed. A drop in real income was reversed. A drop in real income was
:02:50. > :02:51.being balanced by a real increase being balanced by a real increase
:02:51. > :02:53.being balanced by a real increase in benefits, but changes in the
:02:53. > :02:55.in benefits, but changes in the in benefits, but changes in the
:02:55. > :02:56.welfare system give rise to fears welfare system give rise to fears
:02:57. > :02:58.welfare system give rise to fears for the future. The Institute for
:02:58. > :03:01.for the future. The Institute for for the future. The Institute for
:03:01. > :03:02.Fiscal Studies says it anticipates Fiscal Studies says it anticipates
:03:02. > :03:03.Fiscal Studies says it anticipates almost 500,000 UK children will
:03:03. > :03:07.almost 500,000 UK children will almost 500,000 UK children will
:03:07. > :03:08.almost 500,000 UK children will live in poverty by 2015. And in a
:03:09. > :03:09.live in poverty by 2015. And in a developed democracy, poverty does
:03:10. > :03:10.developed democracy, poverty does developed democracy, poverty does
:03:10. > :03:12.developed democracy, poverty does not threaten the lives of more than
:03:12. > :03:15.not threaten the lives of more than not threaten the lives of more than
:03:15. > :03:16.a few children, but research by a few children, but research by
:03:17. > :03:17.a few children, but research by another charity casts a depressing
:03:17. > :03:18.another charity casts a depressing another charity casts a depressing
:03:18. > :03:20.light up families in poverty more light up families in poverty more
:03:20. > :03:21.light up families in poverty more light up families in poverty more
:03:21. > :03:23.than half the parents have cut back than half the parents have cut back
:03:23. > :03:23.than half the parents have cut back than half the parents have cut back
:03:23. > :03:24.on food. Almost at that say the on food. Almost at that say the
:03:24. > :03:26.on food. Almost at that say the children go without new shoes when
:03:26. > :03:27.children go without new shoes when children go without new shoes when
:03:27. > :03:30.children go without new shoes when they needn't and 80 % say they
:03:30. > :03:30.they needn't and 80 % say they they needn't and 80 % say they
:03:30. > :03:33.borrow money for essentials like borrow money for essentials like
:03:34. > :03:34.food and energy bills. food and energy bills.
:03:34. > :03:35.food and energy bills. I'm joined now from Edinburgh by
:03:36. > :03:37.I'm joined now from Edinburgh by I'm joined now from Edinburgh by
:03:37. > :03:37.John Dickie, head of the charity John Dickie, head of the charity
:03:37. > :03:38.John Dickie, head of the charity Child Poverty Action Group Scotland.
:03:38. > :03:39.Child Poverty Action Group Scotland. Child Poverty Action Group Scotland.
:03:39. > :03:40.Here in Glasgow, Ross Martin, Here in Glasgow, Ross Martin,
:03:40. > :03:41.Here in Glasgow, Ross Martin, Policy Director of the Centre for
:03:41. > :03:42.Policy Director of the Centre for Policy Director of the Centre for
:03:42. > :03:43.Scottish Public Policy, and John Scottish Public Policy, and John
:03:43. > :03:43.McKendrick, who researches poverty McKendrick, who researches poverty
:03:43. > :03:53.McKendrick, who researches poverty and children's issues at Glasgow
:03:53. > :03:55.
:03:55. > :03:57.and children's issues at Glasgow and children's issues at Glasgow
:03:57. > :04:03.Caledonian University. Why is this Caledonian University. Why is this
:04:03. > :04:05.Caledonian University. Why is this so intractable in certain areas. I
:04:05. > :04:06.so intractable in certain areas. I so intractable in certain areas. I
:04:06. > :04:08.bet everyone of us without even bet everyone of us without even
:04:08. > :04:09.bet everyone of us without even bet everyone of us without even
:04:09. > :04:10.looking at a map we know exactly looking at a map we know exactly
:04:10. > :04:11.looking at a map we know exactly looking at a map we know exactly
:04:11. > :04:12.the parts of each town and city the parts of each town and city
:04:12. > :04:14.the parts of each town and city the parts of each town and city
:04:14. > :04:15.that would figure as being the most that would figure as being the most
:04:15. > :04:16.that would figure as being the most deprived, because they had been
:04:16. > :04:17.deprived, because they had been deprived, because they had been
:04:17. > :04:20.deprived, because they had been that way for as long as I can
:04:20. > :04:22.that way for as long as I can that way for as long as I can
:04:22. > :04:24.that way for as long as I can remember, 35 or 40 years. It is
:04:24. > :04:26.remember, 35 or 40 years. It is depressingly familiar. That doesn't
:04:26. > :04:27.depressingly familiar. That doesn't depressingly familiar. That doesn't
:04:27. > :04:29.mean it is hopeless. If the mean it is hopeless. If the
:04:29. > :04:31.mean it is hopeless. If the policies were correct and there
:04:31. > :04:34.policies were correct and there policies were correct and there
:04:34. > :04:34.will, we could reduce the problem. will, we could reduce the problem.
:04:34. > :04:37.will, we could reduce the problem. It is a depressingly familiar
:04:37. > :04:39.It is a depressingly familiar It is a depressingly familiar
:04:39. > :04:41.statistic. It is not intractable. statistic. It is not intractable.
:04:41. > :04:44.statistic. It is not intractable. statistic. It is not intractable.
:04:44. > :04:47.There is a static element to it. There is a static element to it.
:04:47. > :04:48.There is a static element to it. There are subtle changes three-time.
:04:48. > :04:49.There are subtle changes three-time. There are subtle changes three-time.
:04:49. > :04:50.Glasgow's poverty used to be inner- Glasgow's poverty used to be inner-
:04:50. > :04:52.Glasgow's poverty used to be inner- Glasgow's poverty used to be inner-
:04:52. > :04:54.city and have moved out to the city and have moved out to the
:04:54. > :05:00.city and have moved out to the margins. There is a dynamism to
:05:00. > :05:03.margins. There is a dynamism to margins. There is a dynamism to
:05:03. > :05:05.poverty. It could be solved, you poverty. It could be solved, you
:05:05. > :05:08.poverty. It could be solved, you think, but what is happening? It
:05:08. > :05:09.think, but what is happening? It think, but what is happening? It
:05:09. > :05:10.think, but what is happening? It did go. About there has been a
:05:10. > :05:14.did go. About there has been a did go. About there has been a
:05:14. > :05:16.slight geographical move, but not slight geographical move, but not
:05:16. > :05:18.slight geographical move, but not slight geographical move, but not
:05:18. > :05:19.much, so what is going wrong? much, so what is going wrong?
:05:19. > :05:21.much, so what is going wrong? don't do enough to address it.
:05:21. > :05:23.don't do enough to address it. don't do enough to address it.
:05:23. > :05:24.don't do enough to address it. There is not a commitment or the
:05:24. > :05:26.There is not a commitment or the There is not a commitment or the
:05:26. > :05:28.scale of activity that is required. scale of activity that is required.
:05:28. > :05:31.scale of activity that is required. scale of activity that is required.
:05:31. > :05:32.We remain a rich country. It is We remain a rich country. It is
:05:32. > :05:35.We remain a rich country. It is We remain a rich country. It is
:05:35. > :05:35.about how we deal out our resources. about how we deal out our resources.
:05:36. > :05:37.about how we deal out our resources. about how we deal out our resources.
:05:37. > :05:39.At I am sure you are as familiar At I am sure you are as familiar
:05:39. > :05:40.At I am sure you are as familiar with these maps as everyone here.
:05:40. > :05:40.with these maps as everyone here. with these maps as everyone here.
:05:40. > :05:42.with these maps as everyone here. Why is it certain areas don't seem
:05:42. > :05:44.Why is it certain areas don't seem Why is it certain areas don't seem
:05:44. > :05:45.Why is it certain areas don't seem to get out of the situation? There
:05:45. > :05:47.to get out of the situation? There to get out of the situation? There
:05:48. > :05:48.is no question you have real is no question you have real
:05:48. > :05:51.concentrations of poverty were concentrations of poverty were
:05:51. > :05:52.communities and individuals have communities and individuals have
:05:52. > :05:54.communities and individuals have been cut off from the economic
:05:54. > :05:55.been cut off from the economic been cut off from the economic
:05:55. > :05:56.opportunities and where we have opportunities and where we have
:05:56. > :05:58.opportunities and where we have failed as a society to protect
:05:58. > :05:59.failed as a society to protect failed as a society to protect
:05:59. > :06:01.individuals and families from the individuals and families from the
:06:01. > :06:04.consequences of unemployment, ill consequences of unemployment, ill
:06:04. > :06:06.consequences of unemployment, ill health and disability. As John says,
:06:06. > :06:08.health and disability. As John says, health and disability. As John says,
:06:08. > :06:08.there is nothing inevitable about there is nothing inevitable about
:06:08. > :06:12.there is nothing inevitable about these levels of child poverty
:06:12. > :06:12.these levels of child poverty across Scotland. Other countries
:06:12. > :06:19.across Scotland. Other countries across Scotland. Other countries
:06:19. > :06:20.who had been through similar who had been through similar
:06:20. > :06:24.who had been through similar periods have far your levels of
:06:24. > :06:25.periods have far your levels of periods have far your levels of
:06:25. > :06:27.child poverty. Denmark, Norway, the child poverty. Denmark, Norway, the
:06:27. > :06:28.child poverty. Denmark, Norway, the Child poverty rates there are less
:06:28. > :06:29.Child poverty rates there are less Child poverty rates there are less
:06:29. > :06:31.Child poverty rates there are less than 10 %. Off we achieve those
:06:31. > :06:32.than 10 %. Off we achieve those than 10 %. Off we achieve those
:06:32. > :06:33.rates in this country, we would rates in this country, we would
:06:33. > :06:37.rates in this country, we would rates in this country, we would
:06:37. > :06:42.count that as an eradication of gel count that as an eradication of gel
:06:42. > :06:43.count that as an eradication of gel poverty! -- Child poverty! We have
:06:43. > :06:44.poverty! -- Child poverty! We have poverty! -- Child poverty! We have
:06:44. > :06:50.poverty! -- Child poverty! We have seen real progress over the last 10
:06:50. > :06:50.seen real progress over the last 10 seen real progress over the last 10
:06:50. > :06:54.or 15 years. 100,000 children were or 15 years. 100,000 children were
:06:54. > :07:04.or 15 years. 100,000 children were or 15 years. 100,000 children were
:07:04. > :07:13.
:07:13. > :07:15.lifted out of child poverty by a I unsure 15 years ago, it would
:07:15. > :07:16.I unsure 15 years ago, it would I unsure 15 years ago, it would
:07:16. > :07:18.have been more than one have been more than one
:07:18. > :07:20.have been more than one constituency -- I am sure. Things
:07:20. > :07:21.constituency -- I am sure. Things constituency -- I am sure. Things
:07:21. > :07:23.do change, but there is this do change, but there is this
:07:23. > :07:24.do change, but there is this geographical element to this, what
:07:24. > :07:25.geographical element to this, what geographical element to this, what
:07:25. > :07:30.geographical element to this, what is your take on why it has proved
:07:30. > :07:30.is your take on why it has proved is your take on why it has proved
:07:31. > :07:32.so difficult? You normally need so difficult? You normally need
:07:32. > :07:33.so difficult? You normally need so difficult? You normally need
:07:33. > :07:35.there will, you also need the power there will, you also need the power
:07:35. > :07:40.there will, you also need the power to change things at an appropriate
:07:40. > :07:42.to change things at an appropriate to change things at an appropriate
:07:42. > :07:43.level. We have had segregation of level. We have had segregation of
:07:43. > :07:44.different parts of government different parts of government
:07:44. > :07:45.different parts of government pulling in different directions and
:07:45. > :07:46.pulling in different directions and pulling in different directions and
:07:46. > :07:48.pulling in different directions and we need to invest at a local level
:07:48. > :07:49.we need to invest at a local level we need to invest at a local level
:07:49. > :07:50.we need to invest at a local level and city level, to win pact on
:07:50. > :07:52.and city level, to win pact on and city level, to win pact on
:07:52. > :07:53.welfare payment and to take control welfare payment and to take control
:07:53. > :07:55.welfare payment and to take control of that from the centralised
:07:55. > :07:56.of that from the centralised of that from the centralised
:07:56. > :07:58.government at Westminster -- to government at Westminster -- to
:07:58. > :08:00.government at Westminster -- to impact on that. View shared housing
:08:00. > :08:01.impact on that. View shared housing impact on that. View shared housing
:08:01. > :08:03.poverty. There was at a pilot poverty. There was at a pilot
:08:03. > :08:05.poverty. There was at a pilot project and Glasgow was involved
:08:05. > :08:07.project and Glasgow was involved project and Glasgow was involved
:08:07. > :08:07.project and Glasgow was involved among other UK cities, it was back
:08:07. > :08:11.among other UK cities, it was back among other UK cities, it was back
:08:11. > :08:13.when Tony Blair was Prime Minister. when Tony Blair was Prime Minister.
:08:13. > :08:14.when Tony Blair was Prime Minister. A local authority could, for
:08:14. > :08:16.A local authority could, for A local authority could, for
:08:16. > :08:20.example, help the people who were example, help the people who were
:08:20. > :08:21.example, help the people who were example, help the people who were
:08:21. > :08:24.in need and take benefits away, it in need and take benefits away, it
:08:24. > :08:25.in need and take benefits away, it in need and take benefits away, it
:08:25. > :08:27.did that come to anything? It did did that come to anything? It did
:08:27. > :08:27.did that come to anything? It did did that come to anything? It did
:08:27. > :08:29.not put it needs to, because there not put it needs to, because there
:08:29. > :08:30.not put it needs to, because there is a perverse incentive for places
:08:30. > :08:31.is a perverse incentive for places is a perverse incentive for places
:08:31. > :08:33.is a perverse incentive for places like Glasgow and not to tackle the
:08:33. > :08:34.like Glasgow and not to tackle the like Glasgow and not to tackle the
:08:34. > :08:36.Welfare Bill because the more Welfare Bill because the more
:08:36. > :08:37.Welfare Bill because the more welfare who meant that comes into
:08:37. > :08:38.welfare who meant that comes into welfare who meant that comes into
:08:38. > :08:39.the city from the UK government, the city from the UK government,
:08:39. > :08:41.the city from the UK government, the city from the UK government,
:08:41. > :08:42.that is more money in the city that is more money in the city
:08:42. > :08:43.that is more money in the city that is more money in the city
:08:43. > :08:44.economy, it is a weird and crazy economy, it is a weird and crazy
:08:44. > :08:47.economy, it is a weird and crazy incentive which works the opposite
:08:47. > :08:48.incentive which works the opposite incentive which works the opposite
:08:48. > :08:49.incentive which works the opposite way! But if these people were in
:08:49. > :08:51.way! But if these people were in way! But if these people were in
:08:51. > :08:52.work, there would be more money. work, there would be more money.
:08:52. > :08:54.work, there would be more money. Look at housing benefit, it comes
:08:54. > :08:55.Look at housing benefit, it comes Look at housing benefit, it comes
:08:55. > :08:56.Look at housing benefit, it comes through that route and so it is not
:08:56. > :08:58.through that route and so it is not through that route and so it is not
:08:58. > :08:58.money out of the council's budget money out of the council's budget
:08:58. > :09:01.money out of the council's budget money out of the council's budget
:09:01. > :09:03.that is used to bring that money in, that is used to bring that money in,
:09:03. > :09:04.that is used to bring that money in, it comes from central government.
:09:04. > :09:05.it comes from central government. it comes from central government.
:09:05. > :09:06.it comes from central government. Until we a lie in the financial
:09:06. > :09:09.Until we a lie in the financial Until we a lie in the financial
:09:09. > :09:10.system within government so all the system within government so all the
:09:10. > :09:11.system within government so all the power across social policy is
:09:11. > :09:11.power across social policy is power across social policy is
:09:11. > :09:13.power across social policy is decided in the one set of hands, in
:09:13. > :09:14.decided in the one set of hands, in decided in the one set of hands, in
:09:14. > :09:15.decided in the one set of hands, in the City, you will not be able to
:09:15. > :09:16.the City, you will not be able to the City, you will not be able to
:09:16. > :09:19.get policy across those things and get policy across those things and
:09:19. > :09:21.get policy across those things and get policy across those things and
:09:21. > :09:21.have an impact. I hope I am not have an impact. I hope I am not
:09:21. > :09:22.have an impact. I hope I am not have an impact. I hope I am not
:09:22. > :09:24.reading too much and what you say, reading too much and what you say,
:09:24. > :09:25.reading too much and what you say, reading too much and what you say,
:09:25. > :09:26.but you suggest this is not about but you suggest this is not about
:09:26. > :09:27.but you suggest this is not about but you suggest this is not about
:09:27. > :09:29.giving more money about and -- more giving more money about and -- more
:09:29. > :09:32.giving more money about and -- more money to poor people, but creating
:09:32. > :09:33.money to poor people, but creating money to poor people, but creating
:09:33. > :09:34.a system of incentives for people a system of incentives for people
:09:34. > :09:36.a system of incentives for people a system of incentives for people
:09:36. > :09:37.to get out of the situation they to get out of the situation they
:09:38. > :09:39.to get out of the situation they got in. The easiest route is
:09:39. > :09:40.got in. The easiest route is got in. The easiest route is
:09:40. > :09:42.through education and on to through education and on to
:09:42. > :09:43.through education and on to through education and on to
:09:43. > :09:46.employment. If you can a line that employment. If you can a line that
:09:46. > :09:47.housing, education and employment, housing, education and employment,
:09:47. > :09:48.housing, education and employment, housing, education and employment,
:09:48. > :09:49.and welfare work that, if you can and welfare work that, if you can
:09:50. > :09:54.create for example proper create for example proper
:09:54. > :09:59.comprehensive catchment areas in comprehensive catchment areas in
:09:59. > :10:03.comprehensive catchment areas in schools. -- and welfare payment. --
:10:03. > :10:05.schools. -- and welfare payment. -- schools. -- and welfare payment. --
:10:05. > :10:05.align. There is a niche of align. There is a niche of
:10:05. > :10:08.align. There is a niche of catchment in London schools and
:10:08. > :10:11.catchment in London schools and catchment in London schools and
:10:11. > :10:14.that has raised attainment levels - that has raised attainment levels -
:10:14. > :10:15.that has raised attainment levels - that has raised attainment levels -
:10:15. > :10:16.- a mixture. Until you can bring - a mixture. Until you can bring
:10:16. > :10:17.those policies together properly, those policies together properly,
:10:17. > :10:18.those policies together properly, those policies together properly,
:10:18. > :10:20.you will not be able to make a you will not be able to make a
:10:20. > :10:22.you will not be able to make a change in tackling that. Something
:10:22. > :10:23.change in tackling that. Something change in tackling that. Something
:10:23. > :10:25.like that idea, malty catchment, like that idea, malty catchment,
:10:25. > :10:28.like that idea, malty catchment, like that idea, malty catchment,
:10:28. > :10:30.what seems to be the case is that what seems to be the case is that
:10:30. > :10:31.what seems to be the case is that people involved in child poverty
:10:31. > :10:37.people involved in child poverty people involved in child poverty
:10:37. > :10:41.groups have been talking the talk groups have been talking the talk
:10:41. > :10:42.groups have been talking the talk groups have been talking the talk
:10:42. > :10:43.for years. -- multi. Do you agree for years. -- multi. Do you agree
:10:43. > :10:45.for years. -- multi. Do you agree with some suggestions he is making
:10:45. > :10:47.with some suggestions he is making with some suggestions he is making
:10:47. > :10:49.a? Progress has been made, the a? Progress has been made, the
:10:49. > :10:51.a? Progress has been made, the a? Progress has been made, the
:10:51. > :10:53.scale is the key issue. What he scale is the key issue. What he
:10:53. > :10:55.scale is the key issue. What he said about cohesion, that is
:10:55. > :10:56.said about cohesion, that is said about cohesion, that is
:10:56. > :10:57.something we are comfortable with something we are comfortable with
:10:57. > :10:57.something we are comfortable with something we are comfortable with
:10:57. > :11:01.up and week allow part of Glasgow up and week allow part of Glasgow
:11:01. > :11:02.up and week allow part of Glasgow up and week allow part of Glasgow
:11:02. > :11:03.to have that intensity. -- we are to have that intensity. -- we are
:11:03. > :11:05.to have that intensity. -- we are comfortable with that and we
:11:05. > :11:06.comfortable with that and we comfortable with that and we
:11:06. > :11:09.comfortable with that and we allowed. You in need -- you need to
:11:09. > :11:10.allowed. You in need -- you need to appreciate your at particular
:11:10. > :11:11.appreciate your at particular contribution. National government
:11:11. > :11:12.contribution. National government contribution. National government
:11:12. > :11:14.and the interim Scottish government and the interim Scottish government
:11:14. > :11:15.and the interim Scottish government and the interim Scottish government
:11:15. > :11:17.has a part to play, and players has a part to play, and players
:11:17. > :11:19.has a part to play, and players have a part to play, and
:11:19. > :11:19.have a part to play, and communities. Different things can
:11:20. > :11:21.communities. Different things can communities. Different things can
:11:21. > :11:23.communities. Different things can be done by different people to make
:11:23. > :11:25.be done by different people to make be done by different people to make
:11:25. > :11:27.a difference. Back to the a difference. Back to the
:11:27. > :11:29.concentrations, one thing the concentrations, one thing the
:11:29. > :11:29.report mentioned was East report mentioned was East
:11:29. > :11:31.report mentioned was East Dumbartonshire which was one area
:11:31. > :11:33.Dumbartonshire which was one area Dumbartonshire which was one area
:11:34. > :11:35.Dumbartonshire which was one area that had the least amount of child
:11:35. > :11:36.that had the least amount of child that had the least amount of child
:11:36. > :11:39.poverty, a particular problem in poverty, a particular problem in
:11:39. > :11:43.Glasgow is the intense Glasgow is the intense
:11:43. > :11:45.Glasgow is the intense concentration of population. Do you
:11:45. > :11:46.concentration of population. Do you concentration of population. Do you
:11:46. > :11:48.men -- do you mean intense men -- do you mean intense
:11:48. > :11:49.men -- do you mean intense concentration of poor people?
:11:49. > :11:51.concentration of poor people? concentration of poor people?
:11:51. > :11:52.concentration of poor people? the fact you have an intense Cont -
:11:52. > :11:53.the fact you have an intense Cont - the fact you have an intense Cont -
:11:53. > :11:56.- an intense concentration of - an intense concentration of
:11:56. > :11:58.- an intense concentration of people on low incomes. There is
:11:58. > :12:00.people on low incomes. There is people on low incomes. There is
:12:00. > :12:01.also a juxtaposition of very also a juxtaposition of very
:12:01. > :12:03.also a juxtaposition of very wealthy areas. Glasgow is an
:12:03. > :12:04.wealthy areas. Glasgow is an wealthy areas. Glasgow is an
:12:04. > :12:07.extreme example of where the extreme example of where the
:12:07. > :12:08.extreme example of where the populations are part, so come --
:12:08. > :12:10.populations are part, so come -- the comprehensive education perhaps
:12:10. > :12:12.the comprehensive education perhaps the comprehensive education perhaps
:12:12. > :12:13.not working to everybody's benefit not working to everybody's benefit
:12:13. > :12:15.not working to everybody's benefit backed that up. There is benefit
:12:15. > :12:16.backed that up. There is benefit backed that up. There is benefit
:12:16. > :12:18.backed that up. There is benefit and that. But that is the point, in
:12:18. > :12:19.and that. But that is the point, in and that. But that is the point, in
:12:19. > :12:21.terms of doing everybody could. If terms of doing everybody could. If
:12:21. > :12:22.terms of doing everybody could. If terms of doing everybody could. If
:12:22. > :12:24.you live in an unemployed get so you live in an unemployed get so
:12:24. > :12:25.you live in an unemployed get so boring middle-class ghetto, you are
:12:25. > :12:31.boring middle-class ghetto, you are boring middle-class ghetto, you are
:12:31. > :12:32.isolating yourself from the rest of isolating yourself from the rest of
:12:32. > :12:34.isolating yourself from the rest of society. -- and none -- an
:12:34. > :12:36.society. -- and none -- an unemployed ghetto foreign middle-
:12:36. > :12:37.unemployed ghetto foreign middle- unemployed ghetto foreign middle-
:12:37. > :12:40.class ghetto a. Variety is the class ghetto a. Variety is the
:12:40. > :12:41.Spice of life. Spice of life.
:12:41. > :12:42.Spice of life. I was curious, When you talked
:12:43. > :12:43.I was curious, When you talked I was curious, When you talked
:12:43. > :12:45.about Norway and Denmark, did she about Norway and Denmark, did she
:12:45. > :12:46.about Norway and Denmark, did she about Norway and Denmark, did she
:12:46. > :12:50.mean that they did have a larger mean that they did have a larger
:12:50. > :12:52.mean that they did have a larger problem with child poverty -- did
:12:52. > :12:52.problem with child poverty -- did problem with child poverty -- did
:12:52. > :12:54.problem with child poverty -- did you? Did they turn it around or
:12:54. > :12:56.you? Did they turn it around or you? Did they turn it around or
:12:56. > :12:57.you? Did they turn it around or have they always not been so bad?
:12:57. > :12:58.have they always not been so bad? have they always not been so bad?
:12:58. > :13:01.have had high levels of have had high levels of
:13:01. > :13:02.have had high levels of unemployment in the past but rather
:13:02. > :13:05.unemployment in the past but rather unemployment in the past but rather
:13:05. > :13:06.than fat leading to intense poverty than fat leading to intense poverty
:13:06. > :13:07.than fat leading to intense poverty because of intense levels of
:13:07. > :13:09.because of intense levels of because of intense levels of
:13:09. > :13:10.financial support when they lose financial support when they lose
:13:10. > :13:11.financial support when they lose their work, people are supported it
:13:11. > :13:12.their work, people are supported it their work, people are supported it
:13:12. > :13:14.their work, people are supported it -- they have had. People are able
:13:14. > :13:16.-- they have had. People are able -- they have had. People are able
:13:16. > :13:17.-- they have had. People are able to bounce back, so they have not
:13:17. > :13:20.to bounce back, so they have not tolerated these built up
:13:20. > :13:21.tolerated these built up tolerated these built up
:13:21. > :13:24.concentrations of poverty. So you concentrations of poverty. So you
:13:24. > :13:30.concentrations of poverty. So you think low levels of benefits are
:13:30. > :13:31.think low levels of benefits are think low levels of benefits are
:13:31. > :13:32.helpful? Higher levels of financial helpful? Higher levels of financial
:13:32. > :13:35.helpful? Higher levels of financial support Orok benefit when people
:13:35. > :13:41.support Orok benefit when people face unemployment, ill-health or
:13:41. > :13:42.face unemployment, ill-health or face unemployment, ill-health or
:13:42. > :13:43.disappoint -- or disability. -- disappoint -- or disability. --
:13:43. > :13:45.disappoint -- or disability. -- forehead benefit. One thing that
:13:45. > :13:45.forehead benefit. One thing that forehead benefit. One thing that
:13:45. > :13:47.does not come through are the does not come through are the
:13:47. > :13:49.does not come through are the does not come through are the
:13:49. > :13:50.forecast of what is about to happen. forecast of what is about to happen.
:13:50. > :13:52.forecast of what is about to happen. Families have been protected by a
:13:52. > :13:54.Families have been protected by a Families have been protected by a
:13:54. > :13:55.benefit and tax credits, families benefit and tax credits, families
:13:55. > :13:55.benefit and tax credits, families benefit and tax credits, families
:13:56. > :13:58.in work and out of work, and that in work and out of work, and that
:13:58. > :14:01.in work and out of work, and that support is being ripped away almost
:14:01. > :14:02.support is being ripped away almost support is being ripped away almost
:14:02. > :14:03.every month. So that is something every month. So that is something
:14:03. > :14:05.every month. So that is something every month. So that is something
:14:05. > :14:06.that has to be looked at. And we that has to be looked at. And we
:14:06. > :14:07.that has to be looked at. And we need to remove the barriers that
:14:07. > :14:09.need to remove the barriers that need to remove the barriers that
:14:09. > :14:14.parents face trying to get into parents face trying to get into
:14:14. > :14:15.work, child care barriers, work, child care barriers,
:14:15. > :14:16.transport tax, discrimination in transport tax, discrimination in
:14:16. > :14:19.transport tax, discrimination in the workplace that often means
:14:19. > :14:20.the workplace that often means the workplace that often means
:14:20. > :14:21.people who have suffered ill-health people who have suffered ill-health
:14:21. > :14:22.people who have suffered ill-health cannot take up job opportunities. A
:14:22. > :14:24.cannot take up job opportunities. A cannot take up job opportunities. A
:14:24. > :14:24.cannot take up job opportunities. A range of things need to be looked
:14:24. > :14:27.range of things need to be looked range of things need to be looked
:14:27. > :14:28.at to remove barriers facing families.
:14:28. > :14:32.families. families.
:14:32. > :14:36.families. Do you think we need to make a
:14:36. > :14:38.Do you think we need to make a Do you think we need to make a
:14:38. > :14:39.change in society? You talked about change in society? You talked about
:14:39. > :14:41.change in society? You talked about change in society? You talked about
:14:41. > :14:42.that film in London very few are at that film in London very few are at
:14:42. > :14:43.that film in London very few are at the poorest school, your average
:14:43. > :14:44.the poorest school, your average the poorest school, your average
:14:44. > :14:47.the poorest school, your average GCSEs are better than in the rest
:14:47. > :14:48.GCSEs are better than in the rest GCSEs are better than in the rest
:14:48. > :14:49.of England. And in Finland, thinks of England. And in Finland, thinks
:14:49. > :14:51.of England. And in Finland, thinks they did with coronary disease, do
:14:51. > :14:54.they did with coronary disease, do they did with coronary disease, do
:14:54. > :14:55.we need something like that? we need something like that?
:14:55. > :14:55.we need something like that? we need something like that?
:14:55. > :14:56.house to be a big effort because house to be a big effort because
:14:56. > :15:00.house to be a big effort because house to be a big effort because
:15:00. > :15:01.for all the money we have put into for all the money we have put into
:15:01. > :15:03.for all the money we have put into public services... -- there has to
:15:03. > :15:05.public services... -- there has to public services... -- there has to
:15:05. > :15:07.public services... -- there has to be. But we have not ended the link
:15:07. > :15:08.be. But we have not ended the link be. But we have not ended the link
:15:08. > :15:10.between postcode lottery. There is between postcode lottery. There is
:15:10. > :15:11.between postcode lottery. There is between postcode lottery. There is
:15:11. > :15:13.no political will for this. Not at no political will for this. Not at
:15:13. > :15:14.no political will for this. Not at the moment, and public opinion
:15:14. > :15:16.the moment, and public opinion the moment, and public opinion
:15:16. > :15:18.needs to drive politicians into that.
:15:18. > :15:21.that. that.
:15:21. > :15:23.Are banking very much for that. Are banking very much for that.
:15:23. > :15:23.Are banking very much for that. Tomorrow's front pages, the full
:15:24. > :15:25.Tomorrow's front pages, the full Tomorrow's front pages, the full
:15:25. > :15:27.extent of the waiting times scandal, extent of the waiting times scandal,
:15:27. > :15:32.extent of the waiting times scandal, a report that will be published
:15:32. > :15:32.a report that will be published a report that will be published
:15:32. > :15:34.tomorrow. The Independent. This is tomorrow. The Independent. This is