:00:01. > :00:01.he will remain a strong presence in the Italian Parliament, on Italian
:00:02. > :00:11.the Italian Parliament, on Italian the Italian Parliament, on Italian
:00:12. > :00:13.
:00:13. > :00:14.television and on the streets of Tonight on Newsnight Scotland:
:00:14. > :00:16.Tonight on Newsnight Scotland: Falsified figures, public deception
:00:16. > :00:17.Falsified figures, public deception Falsified figures, public deception
:00:17. > :00:18.and patients misled. That's what and patients misled. That's what
:00:18. > :00:19.and patients misled. That's what the opposition are claiming after
:00:19. > :00:20.the opposition are claiming after the public sector watchdog
:00:20. > :00:20.the public sector watchdog the public sector watchdog
:00:20. > :00:27.delivered a critical report about delivered a critical report about
:00:27. > :00:28.delivered a critical report about the management of NHS waiting times.
:00:28. > :00:28.the management of NHS waiting times. the management of NHS waiting times.
:00:28. > :00:29.Glasgow University students vote no Glasgow University students vote no
:00:29. > :00:33.Glasgow University students vote no in their own mock independence
:00:33. > :00:33.in their own mock independence in their own mock independence
:00:34. > :00:35.in their own mock independence referendum. Just a bit of fun or a
:00:35. > :00:36.referendum. Just a bit of fun or a straw in the wind?
:00:36. > :00:37.Good evening. Good evening.
:00:37. > :00:38.Good evening. Unlike almost every other public
:00:38. > :00:39.Unlike almost every other public Unlike almost every other public
:00:39. > :00:40.organisation in Scotland, the NHS organisation in Scotland, the NHS
:00:40. > :00:40.organisation in Scotland, the NHS organisation in Scotland, the NHS
:00:40. > :00:43.will not see a single penny cut will not see a single penny cut
:00:43. > :00:43.will not see a single penny cut will not see a single penny cut
:00:43. > :00:44.from its budget. Proof, if any were from its budget. Proof, if any were
:00:44. > :00:45.from its budget. Proof, if any were from its budget. Proof, if any were
:00:45. > :00:46.needed, of the place it occupies in needed, of the place it occupies in
:00:46. > :00:47.our affections and politicians' our affections and politicians'
:00:47. > :00:48.our affections and politicians' priorities. And when it's perceived
:00:48. > :00:49.priorities. And when it's perceived priorities. And when it's perceived
:00:49. > :00:49.that a government is getting that a government is getting
:00:49. > :00:52.something wrong, political something wrong, political
:00:52. > :00:53.something wrong, political consequences usually flow. Think of
:00:53. > :00:54.consequences usually flow. Think of consequences usually flow. Think of
:00:54. > :00:55.consequences usually flow. Think of the damage done to the old Labour
:00:55. > :00:56.the damage done to the old Labour the damage done to the old Labour
:00:56. > :00:57.and Lib Dem Executive by their and Lib Dem Executive by their
:00:57. > :00:58.and Lib Dem Executive by their handling of waiting lists. So the
:00:58. > :00:59.handling of waiting lists. So the handling of waiting lists. So the
:00:59. > :00:59.SNP Government couldn't have been SNP Government couldn't have been
:00:59. > :01:00.SNP Government couldn't have been pleased when the public sector
:01:00. > :01:01.pleased when the public sector watchdog, Audit Scotland today
:01:01. > :01:02.watchdog, Audit Scotland today watchdog, Audit Scotland today
:01:02. > :01:06.turned its guns on the management turned its guns on the management
:01:06. > :01:08.turned its guns on the management of waiting times on its watch.
:01:08. > :01:16.of waiting times on its watch. of waiting times on its watch.
:01:16. > :01:18.There are some strobing effects on The Government has been shortening
:01:18. > :01:19.The Government has been shortening The Government has been shortening
:01:19. > :01:20.waiting list targets. In December waiting list targets. In December
:01:20. > :01:21.waiting list targets. In December waiting list targets. In December
:01:21. > :01:22.2011 the wait was supposed to be no 2011 the wait was supposed to be no
:01:22. > :01:23.2011 the wait was supposed to be no 2011 the wait was supposed to be no
:01:23. > :01:24.longer than 18 weeks from the first longer than 18 weeks from the first
:01:24. > :01:25.longer than 18 weeks from the first consultation with your GP to
:01:25. > :01:26.consultation with your GP to consultation with your GP to
:01:26. > :01:27.treatment. Now, you have a legal treatment. Now, you have a legal
:01:27. > :01:29.treatment. Now, you have a legal right to have received treatment
:01:29. > :01:30.right to have received treatment right to have received treatment
:01:30. > :01:34.right to have received treatment within 12 weeks of that course of
:01:35. > :01:36.within 12 weeks of that course of treatment being agreed.
:01:36. > :01:37.treatment being agreed. treatment being agreed.
:01:37. > :01:38.treatment being agreed. These targets put some areas of the
:01:38. > :01:39.These targets put some areas of the These targets put some areas of the
:01:39. > :01:41.NHS under pressure and 18 months NHS under pressure and 18 months
:01:41. > :01:41.NHS under pressure and 18 months ago it was discovered that hundreds
:01:42. > :01:43.ago it was discovered that hundreds ago it was discovered that hundreds
:01:43. > :01:44.of patients in Lothian were being of patients in Lothian were being
:01:44. > :01:45.of patients in Lothian were being marked down as unavailable because
:01:46. > :01:47.marked down as unavailable because marked down as unavailable because
:01:47. > :01:48.the health board couldn't treat the health board couldn't treat
:01:48. > :01:51.the health board couldn't treat the health board couldn't treat
:01:51. > :01:52.them within a target of 18 weeks. them within a target of 18 weeks.
:01:52. > :01:56.them within a target of 18 weeks. Audit Scotland found the problem
:01:56. > :01:59.Audit Scotland found the problem Audit Scotland found the problem
:01:59. > :02:01.went wider. In June 201131% of went wider. In June 201131% of
:02:01. > :02:02.inpatients were recorded as inpatients were recorded as
:02:02. > :02:04.socially unavailable for treatment. socially unavailable for treatment.
:02:04. > :02:05.socially unavailable for treatment. But the reasons for that
:02:05. > :02:07.But the reasons for that unavailability were not recorded.
:02:07. > :02:08.unavailability were not recorded. unavailability were not recorded.
:02:08. > :02:10.During the period we audited the During the period we audited the
:02:10. > :02:12.Scottish Government and health Scottish Government and health
:02:12. > :02:13.Scottish Government and health boards were focusing on whether the
:02:13. > :02:14.boards were focusing on whether the boards were focusing on whether the
:02:14. > :02:15.waiting times target was being waiting times target was being
:02:15. > :02:16.waiting times target was being achieved rather than how it was
:02:16. > :02:18.achieved rather than how it was achieved rather than how it was
:02:18. > :02:19.being achieved. If they had been being achieved. If they had been
:02:19. > :02:21.being achieved. If they had been looking at the bigger pictures,
:02:21. > :02:26.looking at the bigger pictures, looking at the bigger pictures,
:02:26. > :02:27.looking at the bigger pictures, they would have seen the use of
:02:27. > :02:29.unavailability codes. unavailability codes.
:02:29. > :02:30.unavailability codes. The Government says the problem has
:02:30. > :02:31.The Government says the problem has The Government says the problem has
:02:31. > :02:32.been fixed. We have never said been fixed. We have never said
:02:32. > :02:33.been fixed. We have never said there was no problem with the
:02:33. > :02:33.there was no problem with the there was no problem with the
:02:33. > :02:34.recording of waiting times. Of recording of waiting times. Of
:02:34. > :02:36.recording of waiting times. Of course, there was a problem related
:02:36. > :02:37.course, there was a problem related course, there was a problem related
:02:37. > :02:38.to IT and computer systems... to IT and computer systems...
:02:38. > :02:39.to IT and computer systems... to IT and computer systems...
:02:39. > :02:40.there a problem now? I am not there a problem now? I am not
:02:40. > :02:41.there a problem now? I am not saying there is no problem now.
:02:41. > :02:44.saying there is no problem now. saying there is no problem now.
:02:44. > :02:45.saying there is no problem now. What I am saying the problem is
:02:45. > :02:46.What I am saying the problem is What I am saying the problem is
:02:46. > :02:47.identified by Audit Scotland and identified by Audit Scotland and
:02:47. > :02:48.identified by Audit Scotland and the reports have been addressed.
:02:48. > :02:49.the reports have been addressed. the reports have been addressed.
:02:49. > :02:50.However For the Opposition, this However For the Opposition, this
:02:50. > :02:51.However For the Opposition, this However For the Opposition, this
:02:51. > :02:53.issue is one of trust and there is issue is one of trust and there is
:02:54. > :02:58.issue is one of trust and there is no mistaking who they are blaming.
:02:58. > :02:58.no mistaking who they are blaming. no mistaking who they are blaming.
:02:58. > :02:59.In June 2011 Nicola Sturgeon was In June 2011 Nicola Sturgeon was
:02:59. > :03:00.In June 2011 Nicola Sturgeon was In June 2011 Nicola Sturgeon was
:03:01. > :03:02.given a set of figures which said given a set of figures which said
:03:02. > :03:03.given a set of figures which said that only 3% of patients waited
:03:03. > :03:04.that only 3% of patients waited that only 3% of patients waited
:03:04. > :03:06.only nine weeks for hospital only nine weeks for hospital
:03:06. > :03:07.only nine weeks for hospital treatment when the truth was 23%.
:03:07. > :03:08.treatment when the truth was 23%. treatment when the truth was 23%.
:03:08. > :03:08.treatment when the truth was 23%. At the same time, she was given
:03:08. > :03:10.At the same time, she was given At the same time, she was given
:03:10. > :03:11.figures which said that the number figures which said that the number
:03:11. > :03:11.figures which said that the number figures which said that the number
:03:11. > :03:15.figures which said that the number of people too busy to go to get the
:03:15. > :03:17.of people too busy to go to get the of people too busy to go to get the
:03:17. > :03:18.treatment they needed had tripled. treatment they needed had tripled.
:03:19. > :03:19.treatment they needed had tripled. treatment they needed had tripled.
:03:19. > :03:21.She was told that one in three She was told that one in three
:03:21. > :03:21.She was told that one in three Scots on waiting lists were too
:03:21. > :03:23.Scots on waiting lists were too Scots on waiting lists were too
:03:23. > :03:25.Scots on waiting lists were too busy to be cured. She knew what was
:03:25. > :03:25.busy to be cured. She knew what was busy to be cured. She knew what was
:03:25. > :03:26.busy to be cured. She knew what was happening. Did she not have the wit
:03:26. > :03:36.happening. Did she not have the wit happening. Did she not have the wit
:03:36. > :03:36.
:03:36. > :03:38.to notice that waiting lists were to notice that waiting lists were
:03:38. > :03:39.to notice that waiting lists were being false identity or did this
:03:39. > :03:41.being false identity or did this being false identity or did this
:03:41. > :03:43.suit her? The statement that it suit her? The statement that it
:03:43. > :03:44.suit her? The statement that it released, did it say we want
:03:44. > :03:45.released, did it say we want released, did it say we want
:03:45. > :03:50.improvements in the health service, improvements in the health service,
:03:50. > :03:50.improvements in the health service, improvements in the health service,
:03:50. > :03:52.we want the computer system to be introduced.
:03:52. > :03:52.introduced. introduced.
:03:53. > :03:54.introduced. As Labour know, the Irish you of
:03:54. > :03:56.As Labour know, the Irish you of As Labour know, the Irish you of
:03:56. > :03:58.hidden ways -- issue of hidden hidden ways -- issue of hidden
:03:58. > :04:00.hidden ways -- issue of hidden lists can be damaging. It is
:04:00. > :04:01.lists can be damaging. It is lists can be damaging. It is
:04:01. > :04:02.lists can be damaging. It is patients who will find out out if
:04:02. > :04:11.patients who will find out out if patients who will find out out if
:04:11. > :04:11.I'm joined now in the studio by I'm joined now in the studio by
:04:12. > :04:12.Labour's health spokesperson, Labour's health spokesperson,
:04:13. > :04:13.Labour's health spokesperson, Jackie Baillie and also by Bob
:04:14. > :04:14.Jackie Baillie and also by Bob Jackie Baillie and also by Bob
:04:14. > :04:16.Jackie Baillie and also by Bob Dorris who is an SNP MSP for
:04:16. > :04:18.Dorris who is an SNP MSP for Dorris who is an SNP MSP for
:04:18. > :04:19.Glasgow. Your problem on this is Glasgow. Your problem on this is
:04:19. > :04:20.Glasgow. Your problem on this is Glasgow. Your problem on this is
:04:20. > :04:21.that you have got the patents on that you have got the patents on
:04:21. > :04:21.that you have got the patents on that you have got the patents on
:04:21. > :04:23.hidden waiting list so you are not hidden waiting list so you are not
:04:23. > :04:26.hidden waiting list so you are not in a position to criticise?
:04:27. > :04:28.in a position to criticise? in a position to criticise?
:04:28. > :04:29.Absolutely not. What audit Scotland Absolutely not. What audit Scotland
:04:29. > :04:31.Absolutely not. What audit Scotland Scotland demonstrated that one in
:04:31. > :04:32.Scotland demonstrated that one in Scotland demonstrated that one in
:04:32. > :04:33.three patients were parked on three patients were parked on
:04:33. > :04:34.three patients were parked on hidden waiting list... That was
:04:34. > :04:36.hidden waiting list... That was hidden waiting list... That was
:04:36. > :04:38.hidden waiting list... That was when you were in power, it was 34%.
:04:38. > :04:40.when you were in power, it was 34%. when you were in power, it was 34%.
:04:40. > :04:41.Those people who had breached their Those people who had breached their
:04:41. > :04:42.waiting time guarantee wherein waiting time guarantee wherein
:04:42. > :04:43.waiting time guarantee wherein reported. There is an issue --
:04:43. > :04:44.reported. There is an issue -- reported. There is an issue --
:04:44. > :04:45.weren't reported. There is a real weren't reported. There is a real
:04:45. > :04:46.weren't reported. There is a real issue about not being able to
:04:46. > :04:47.issue about not being able to issue about not being able to
:04:47. > :04:49.issue about not being able to trust... If we are going to be
:04:49. > :04:50.trust... If we are going to be transparent and honest, under
:04:50. > :04:53.transparent and honest, under transparent and honest, under
:04:53. > :04:54.transparent and honest, under Labour 33% of people were on hidden
:04:54. > :04:54.Labour 33% of people were on hidden Labour 33% of people were on hidden
:04:54. > :04:55.Labour 33% of people were on hidden waiting lists. You are talk being a
:04:55. > :04:56.waiting lists. You are talk being a waiting lists. You are talk being a
:04:56. > :04:57.period seven years ago where what period seven years ago where what
:04:57. > :04:58.period seven years ago where what period seven years ago where what
:04:58. > :04:59.we did is we took waiting lists we did is we took waiting lists
:04:59. > :05:00.we did is we took waiting lists we did is we took waiting lists
:05:00. > :05:01.that that stood at two years down that that stood at two years down
:05:01. > :05:02.that that stood at two years down that that stood at two years down
:05:02. > :05:03.to something like six months and we to something like six months and we
:05:03. > :05:04.to something like six months and we were making improvements all the
:05:04. > :05:05.were making improvements all the were making improvements all the
:05:05. > :05:06.were making improvements all the time. But what we have is a
:05:06. > :05:08.time. But what we have is a time. But what we have is a
:05:08. > :05:09.situation here where the lack of situation here where the lack of
:05:09. > :05:11.situation here where the lack of transparency is such that Audit
:05:11. > :05:12.transparency is such that Audit transparency is such that Audit
:05:12. > :05:14.Scotland concluded that you can't Scotland concluded that you can't
:05:14. > :05:15.Scotland concluded that you can't trust the veracity of the figures
:05:15. > :05:16.trust the veracity of the figures trust the veracity of the figures
:05:16. > :05:17.being presented and we don't know being presented and we don't know
:05:17. > :05:19.being presented and we don't know whether the Government is even
:05:19. > :05:20.whether the Government is even whether the Government is even
:05:20. > :05:21.meeting its waiting time targets. meeting its waiting time targets.
:05:21. > :05:24.meeting its waiting time targets. The problem with your reaction to
:05:24. > :05:25.The problem with your reaction to The problem with your reaction to
:05:25. > :05:26.The problem with your reaction to this is it doesn't seem seem to
:05:26. > :05:27.this is it doesn't seem seem to this is it doesn't seem seem to
:05:27. > :05:28.bear much relationship to what this bear much relationship to what this
:05:28. > :05:29.bear much relationship to what this bear much relationship to what this
:05:29. > :05:30.report says. I am sure there are report says. I am sure there are
:05:30. > :05:31.report says. I am sure there are problems with IT, there are
:05:31. > :05:32.problems with IT, there are problems with IT, there are
:05:32. > :05:32.everywhere, but that's not what the everywhere, but that's not what the
:05:32. > :05:34.everywhere, but that's not what the report says the problem is. The
:05:34. > :05:35.report says the problem is. The report says the problem is. The
:05:35. > :05:36.report says the problem is. The report says the problem was that on
:05:36. > :05:38.report says the problem was that on report says the problem was that on
:05:38. > :05:39.the computer systems in the boxes the computer systems in the boxes
:05:39. > :05:41.the computer systems in the boxes where medical staff should have
:05:41. > :05:43.where medical staff should have where medical staff should have
:05:43. > :05:44.recorded the reasons people were recorded the reasons people were
:05:44. > :05:46.recorded the reasons people were given these codes, they didn't put
:05:46. > :05:46.given these codes, they didn't put given these codes, they didn't put
:05:46. > :05:47.given these codes, they didn't put anything in and it is impossible to
:05:47. > :05:49.anything in and it is impossible to anything in and it is impossible to
:05:49. > :05:50.anything in and it is impossible to trace whether or not this was a a
:05:50. > :05:50.trace whether or not this was a a trace whether or not this was a a
:05:51. > :05:51.deliberate policy to get the deliberate policy to get the
:05:51. > :05:52.deliberate policy to get the deliberate policy to get the
:05:52. > :05:54.waiting time down or whether it was waiting time down or whether it was
:05:54. > :05:54.waiting time down or whether it was just negligence or whether it was
:05:55. > :05:56.just negligence or whether it was just negligence or whether it was
:05:56. > :05:57.just negligence or whether it was just they were too busy. That's got
:05:57. > :05:58.just they were too busy. That's got just they were too busy. That's got
:05:58. > :05:59.just they were too busy. That's got nothing to do with IT? Well, I am
:05:59. > :06:00.nothing to do with IT? Well, I am nothing to do with IT? Well, I am
:06:00. > :06:01.glad that you raised that point glad that you raised that point
:06:01. > :06:03.glad that you raised that point glad that you raised that point
:06:03. > :06:04.because it was because of the IT because it was because of the IT
:06:04. > :06:06.because it was because of the IT systems. The reason that they press
:06:06. > :06:07.systems. The reason that they press systems. The reason that they press
:06:07. > :06:09.that had button, there -- press that had button, there -- press
:06:09. > :06:12.that had button, there -- press that had button, there was not
:06:12. > :06:13.that had button, there was not that had button, there was not
:06:13. > :06:14.another button. If somebody was another button. If somebody was
:06:14. > :06:15.another button. If somebody was socially unavailable... Let me read
:06:15. > :06:16.socially unavailable... Let me read socially unavailable... Let me read
:06:16. > :06:17.from the report. It says, "In from the report. It says, "In
:06:17. > :06:18.from the report. It says, "In general, staff were not recording
:06:18. > :06:20.general, staff were not recording general, staff were not recording
:06:20. > :06:21.general, staff were not recording the reasons for applying codes to a
:06:21. > :06:22.the reasons for applying codes to a the reasons for applying codes to a
:06:22. > :06:23.patient record." This was in patient record." This was in
:06:23. > :06:24.patient record." This was in computer systems where it was
:06:24. > :06:25.computer systems where it was computer systems where it was
:06:25. > :06:27.computer systems where it was possible to do that you wanted to
:06:27. > :06:29.possible to do that you wanted to possible to do that you wanted to
:06:29. > :06:30.possible to do that you wanted to do that? I I don't agree, Gordon.
:06:30. > :06:32.do that? I I don't agree, Gordon. do that? I I don't agree, Gordon.
:06:32. > :06:33.do that? I I don't agree, Gordon. So Audit Scotland got it wrong?
:06:33. > :06:38.So Audit Scotland got it wrong? So Audit Scotland got it wrong?
:06:38. > :06:39.I continue, Gordon? The computer I continue, Gordon? The computer
:06:39. > :06:40.I continue, Gordon? The computer systems not flexible enough to
:06:40. > :06:42.record. record.
:06:42. > :06:44.record. record.
:06:44. > :06:45.It is what they say in the report. It is what they say in the report.
:06:45. > :06:46.It is what they say in the report. The IT systems were not sensitive
:06:47. > :06:47.The IT systems were not sensitive The IT systems were not sensitive
:06:47. > :06:48.The IT systems were not sensitive enough to record all the data. The
:06:49. > :06:50.enough to record all the data. The enough to record all the data. The
:06:50. > :06:52.accusation has been made not by accusation has been made not by
:06:52. > :06:53.accusation has been made not by Audit Scotland actually, but by the
:06:53. > :06:54.Audit Scotland actually, but by the Audit Scotland actually, but by the
:06:54. > :06:56.Labour Party that one in four Labour Party that one in four
:06:56. > :07:00.Labour Party that one in four patients were on some form of
:07:00. > :07:00.patients were on some form of patients were on some form of
:07:01. > :07:02.hidden waiting list... Am I hidden waiting list... Am I
:07:02. > :07:03.hidden waiting list... Am I misreading this report? You are
:07:03. > :07:03.misreading this report? You are misreading this report? You are
:07:03. > :07:05.misreading this report? You are correct because if it was just a
:07:05. > :07:06.correct because if it was just a correct because if it was just a
:07:06. > :07:08.correct because if it was just a matter of a computer problem or a
:07:08. > :07:09.matter of a computer problem or a matter of a computer problem or a
:07:09. > :07:10.clerical error then what we clerical error then what we
:07:10. > :07:12.clerical error then what we wouldn't be seeing is the variation
:07:12. > :07:15.wouldn't be seeing is the variation wouldn't be seeing is the variation
:07:15. > :07:23.across Scotland that indicates key across Scotland that indicates key
:07:23. > :07:25.across Scotland that indicates key pressure points if you take take
:07:25. > :07:26.opthamology. opthamology.
:07:26. > :07:27.opthamology. They say these problems have been
:07:27. > :07:29.They say these problems have been They say these problems have been
:07:29. > :07:30.sorted out because of the measures sorted out because of the measures
:07:30. > :07:32.sorted out because of the measures taken last year. The report by
:07:32. > :07:32.taken last year. The report by Audit Scotland addresses the
:07:32. > :07:34.Audit Scotland addresses the Audit Scotland addresses the
:07:34. > :07:35.measures taken last year and says measures taken last year and says
:07:35. > :07:36.measures taken last year and says they don't sort the problems out.
:07:36. > :07:38.they don't sort the problems out. they don't sort the problems out.
:07:38. > :07:39.they don't sort the problems out. Again if I can quote, it says,
:07:40. > :07:41.Again if I can quote, it says, "Updated waiting list guidance
:07:41. > :07:43."Updated waiting list guidance "Updated waiting list guidance
:07:43. > :07:45.should help improve monitoring and should help improve monitoring and
:07:45. > :07:47.should help improve monitoring and reporting, but does not address the
:07:47. > :07:48.reporting, but does not address the reporting, but does not address the
:07:48. > :07:49.reporting, but does not address the risks.". You are right. We have not
:07:49. > :07:50.risks.". You are right. We have not risks.". You are right. We have not
:07:50. > :07:53.addressed all the issues. We have addressed all the issues. We have
:07:53. > :07:54.addressed all the issues. We have addressed all the issues. We have
:07:55. > :07:56.said we have addressed 91% of the said we have addressed 91% of the
:07:56. > :07:56.said we have addressed 91% of the issues raised in the internal
:07:57. > :07:57.issues raised in the internal issues raised in the internal
:07:57. > :07:59.issues raised in the internal audits and it is work in progress
:07:59. > :08:00.audits and it is work in progress audits and it is work in progress
:08:00. > :08:01.to addresses the additional matters to addresses the additional matters
:08:01. > :08:02.to addresses the additional matters to addresses the additional matters
:08:02. > :08:03.raised by Audit Scotland and we are raised by Audit Scotland and we are
:08:03. > :08:06.raised by Audit Scotland and we are moving towards that and things are
:08:06. > :08:06.moving towards that and things are moving towards that and things are
:08:06. > :08:08.improving. I can't Jacqui away with improving. I can't Jacqui away with
:08:08. > :08:08.improving. I can't Jacqui away with improving. I can't Jacqui away with
:08:08. > :08:10.the figure with one in three that the figure with one in three that
:08:10. > :08:11.the figure with one in three that she is saying in hidden waiting
:08:11. > :08:13.she is saying in hidden waiting she is saying in hidden waiting
:08:13. > :08:15.she is saying in hidden waiting list of the that's untrue. On the
:08:15. > :08:17.list of the that's untrue. On the list of the that's untrue. On the
:08:17. > :08:20.time period Jackie is talking about, time period Jackie is talking about,
:08:20. > :08:23.time period Jackie is talking about, 94% of patients including those
:08:23. > :08:26.94% of patients including those 94% of patients including those
:08:26. > :08:29.marked socially unavail able or marked socially unavail able or
:08:29. > :08:30.medically unavailable got their medically unavailable got their
:08:31. > :08:32.medically unavailable got their appointment within 18 ekes ekes
:08:32. > :08:33.appointment within 18 ekes ekes appointment within 18 ekes ekes
:08:33. > :08:34.appointment within 18 ekes ekes weeks. -- 18 weeks. The figure one
:08:34. > :08:35.weeks. -- 18 weeks. The figure one weeks. -- 18 weeks. The figure one
:08:35. > :08:37.weeks. -- 18 weeks. The figure one in three is the Labour Party in
:08:37. > :08:40.in three is the Labour Party in in three is the Labour Party in
:08:40. > :08:46.their hidden waiting lists which we their hidden waiting lists which we
:08:46. > :08:49.their hidden waiting lists which we abol abolished in 2008. On the...
:08:49. > :08:49.abol abolished in 2008. On the... abol abolished in 2008. On the...
:08:49. > :08:51.abol abolished in 2008. On the... What is the figure? There are two
:08:51. > :08:53.What is the figure? There are two What is the figure? There are two
:08:53. > :08:54.different sets of figures which are different sets of figures which are
:08:54. > :08:56.different sets of figures which are critical. It talks about social
:08:56. > :08:57.critical. It talks about social critical. It talks about social
:08:57. > :08:59.unavailability in 2008, being 11% unavailability in 2008, being 11%
:08:59. > :09:02.unavailability in 2008, being 11% of the patient population. Rise to
:09:02. > :09:03.of the patient population. Rise to of the patient population. Rise to
:09:03. > :09:07.of the patient population. Rise to go June 2011 -- rising to June 2011
:09:07. > :09:10.go June 2011 -- rising to June 2011 go June 2011 -- rising to June 2011
:09:10. > :09:13.to a staggering 21% of the to a staggering 21% of the
:09:13. > :09:14.to a staggering 21% of the population. 70% of Glaswegians were
:09:14. > :09:16.population. 70% of Glaswegians were population. 70% of Glaswegians were
:09:16. > :09:18.socially unavailable. Can I deal socially unavailable. Can I deal
:09:18. > :09:19.socially unavailable. Can I deal with the other figure? That's not
:09:19. > :09:21.with the other figure? That's not with the other figure? That's not
:09:21. > :09:22.true. I represent Glasgow. I would true. I represent Glasgow. I would
:09:22. > :09:23.true. I represent Glasgow. I would like to talk about Glasgow.
:09:23. > :09:25.like to talk about Glasgow. like to talk about Glasgow.
:09:25. > :09:27.Of the cases that were breached, Of the cases that were breached,
:09:27. > :09:29.Of the cases that were breached, were reported by the Scottish
:09:29. > :09:30.were reported by the Scottish were reported by the Scottish
:09:30. > :09:31.Government. 23% weren't. It was hidden.
:09:31. > :09:32.hidden. hidden.
:09:32. > :09:35.hidden. The bottom line is we know in
:09:35. > :09:38.The bottom line is we know in The bottom line is we know in
:09:38. > :09:39.Lothian, there were doing this. The Lothian, there were doing this. The
:09:39. > :09:41.Lothian, there were doing this. The Lothian, there were doing this. The
:09:41. > :09:42.point is, you don't know, Alec Neil point is, you don't know, Alec Neil
:09:42. > :09:42.point is, you don't know, Alec Neil doesn't know and Audit Scotland
:09:42. > :09:43.doesn't know and Audit Scotland doesn't know and Audit Scotland
:09:43. > :09:45.can't find out whether this has can't find out whether this has
:09:45. > :09:50.can't find out whether this has been widespread. It could have been.
:09:50. > :09:52.been widespread. It could have been. been widespread. It could have been.
:09:52. > :09:53.Audit Scotland said said there was Audit Scotland said said there was
:09:53. > :09:54.Audit Scotland said said there was no evidence... No, no they said
:09:54. > :09:54.no evidence... No, no they said no evidence... No, no they said
:09:54. > :09:55.there was not the information there was not the information
:09:55. > :09:56.there was not the information available to judge whether this was
:09:56. > :09:57.available to judge whether this was happening or not.
:09:57. > :09:58.happening or not. happening or not.
:09:58. > :09:59.happening or not. You are right and that was because
:09:59. > :10:01.You are right and that was because You are right and that was because
:10:01. > :10:02.of the IT systems, but Audit of the IT systems, but Audit
:10:03. > :10:04.of the IT systems, but Audit Scotland looked at up to 270,000
:10:04. > :10:05.Scotland looked at up to 270,000 Scotland looked at up to 270,000
:10:05. > :10:06.individual cases where they spoke individual cases where they spoke
:10:06. > :10:09.individual cases where they spoke individual cases where they spoke
:10:09. > :10:12.to people and they found almost no to people and they found almost no
:10:13. > :10:15.evidence of anything inappropriate. evidence of anything inappropriate.
:10:15. > :10:18.evidence of anything inappropriate. Audit Scotland finds no evidence,
:10:18. > :10:20.Audit Scotland finds no evidence, Audit Scotland finds no evidence,
:10:20. > :10:23.Jackie should... It is like a Jackie should... It is like a
:10:23. > :10:25.Jackie should... It is like a company accused of tax evasion.
:10:25. > :10:26.company accused of tax evasion. company accused of tax evasion.
:10:26. > :10:31.company accused of tax evasion. They say, "You can't prove we have
:10:31. > :10:33.They say, "You can't prove we have They say, "You can't prove we have
:10:33. > :10:35.done anything illegal." Why are you done anything illegal." Why are you
:10:35. > :10:35.done anything illegal." Why are you done anything illegal." Why are you
:10:35. > :10:36.not saying - we will be examining not saying - we will be examining
:10:36. > :10:37.not saying - we will be examining not saying - we will be examining
:10:37. > :10:38.not saying - we will be examining this to fin out if there was -- fin
:10:38. > :10:39.this to fin out if there was -- fin this to fin out if there was -- fin
:10:39. > :10:40.this to fin out if there was -- fin out if there was any evidence of
:10:40. > :10:42.out if there was any evidence of out if there was any evidence of
:10:42. > :10:43.deliberate evasion. The reason we deliberate evasion. The reason we
:10:43. > :10:44.deliberate evasion. The reason we deliberate evasion. The reason we
:10:44. > :10:46.don't have a -- couldn't have a don't have a -- couldn't have a
:10:46. > :10:46.don't have a -- couldn't have a full audit trail, the IT system
:10:46. > :10:48.full audit trail, the IT system full audit trail, the IT system
:10:48. > :10:50.didn't allow it. They are putting didn't allow it. They are putting
:10:50. > :10:51.didn't allow it. They are putting didn't allow it. They are putting
:10:51. > :10:53.in a new IT system. There used to in a new IT system. There used to
:10:53. > :10:54.in a new IT system. There used to be 11 different IT systems and
:10:54. > :10:55.be 11 different IT systems and be 11 different IT systems and
:10:55. > :10:59.be 11 different IT systems and there are now three and we are
:11:00. > :11:01.there are now three and we are there are now three and we are
:11:01. > :11:03.there are now three and we are bringing in one. He had a point
:11:03. > :11:04.bringing in one. He had a point bringing in one. He had a point
:11:04. > :11:05.bringing in one. He had a point when you said you were only using
:11:05. > :11:07.when you said you were only using when you said you were only using
:11:07. > :11:08.when you said you were only using this to have a go at Nicola
:11:08. > :11:10.Sturgeon. Sturgeon.
:11:10. > :11:13.Sturgeon. Patients have been parked on hidden
:11:13. > :11:17.Patients have been parked on hidden Patients have been parked on hidden
:11:17. > :11:18.waiting list and denied treatment. waiting list and denied treatment.
:11:18. > :11:19.waiting list and denied treatment. waiting list and denied treatment.
:11:19. > :11:24.If you are a patient or potential If you are a patient or potential
:11:24. > :11:28.If you are a patient or potential patient watching this, we have got
:11:28. > :11:30.patient watching this, we have got patient watching this, we have got
:11:30. > :11:31.you obsca kating waiting lists. you obsca kating waiting lists.
:11:31. > :11:31.you obsca kating waiting lists. Patients condition trust either of
:11:32. > :11:34.Patients condition trust either of Patients condition trust either of
:11:34. > :11:37.-- can't trust either of you. -- can't trust either of you.
:11:37. > :11:38.-- can't trust either of you. In 2008 we inherited hidden lists.
:11:38. > :11:39.In 2008 we inherited hidden lists. Additional issues have been
:11:40. > :11:40.Additional issues have been Additional issues have been
:11:40. > :11:42.identified and we are putting them right.
:11:42. > :11:42.right. right.
:11:42. > :11:43.right. This is about patients. The SNP are
:11:43. > :11:49.This is about patients. The SNP are This is about patients. The SNP are
:11:49. > :11:49.saying it is about a computer saying it is about a computer
:11:50. > :11:52.saying it is about a computer system. Frankly... Let's Leave it
:11:52. > :11:53.there. there.
:11:53. > :11:57.there. Glasgow University is where the
:11:57. > :11:58.Glasgow University is where the Glasgow University is where the
:11:58. > :11:59.modern SNP was born. It's also modern SNP was born. It's also
:11:59. > :12:00.modern SNP was born. It's also where two of the architects of
:12:00. > :12:01.where two of the architects of where two of the architects of
:12:01. > :12:01.Scottish devolution, John Smith and Scottish devolution, John Smith and
:12:01. > :12:02.Scottish devolution, John Smith and Donald Dewar, cut their political
:12:02. > :12:03.Donald Dewar, cut their political Donald Dewar, cut their political
:12:03. > :12:04.teeth. And when all 23,000 of teeth. And when all 23,000 of
:12:04. > :12:05.teeth. And when all 23,000 of today's students were invited to
:12:05. > :12:06.today's students were invited to today's students were invited to
:12:06. > :12:07.today's students were invited to today's students were invited to
:12:07. > :12:08.get ahead of the game and vote in a get ahead of the game and vote in a
:12:08. > :12:09.mock independence referendum, it mock independence referendum, it
:12:09. > :12:10.mock independence referendum, it mock independence referendum, it
:12:10. > :12:12.was bound to elicit a lot of was bound to elicit a lot of
:12:12. > :12:13.attention. Tonight, the students attention. Tonight, the students
:12:13. > :12:14.attention. Tonight, the students have spoken. In a pitiful turnout
:12:14. > :12:15.have spoken. In a pitiful turnout have spoken. In a pitiful turnout
:12:15. > :12:16.of about 10%, 62% voted against of about 10%, 62% voted against
:12:16. > :12:17.of about 10%, 62% voted against independence with 37% in favour.
:12:17. > :12:21.independence with 37% in favour. independence with 37% in favour.
:12:21. > :12:24.Laura Maxwell spent the day on Laura Maxwell spent the day on
:12:24. > :12:26.Laura Maxwell spent the day on campus. Lord Kelvin, one of the
:12:26. > :12:27.campus. Lord Kelvin, one of the campus. Lord Kelvin, one of the
:12:27. > :12:29.greatest scientists of his age and greatest scientists of his age and
:12:29. > :12:30.greatest scientists of his age and unionist appears to be waiting
:12:30. > :12:32.unionist appears to be waiting unionist appears to be waiting
:12:32. > :12:34.patiently as the temperature rises patiently as the temperature rises
:12:35. > :12:36.patiently as the temperature rises here. The lecture halls and
:12:36. > :12:39.here. The lecture halls and here. The lecture halls and
:12:39. > :12:40.libraries have for the last month libraries have for the last month
:12:40. > :12:41.libraries have for the last month become a microcosm of Scottish
:12:41. > :12:42.become a microcosm of Scottish become a microcosm of Scottish
:12:42. > :12:45.politics. Students were answering a politics. Students were answering a
:12:45. > :12:48.politics. Students were answering a question - should Scotland be an
:12:48. > :12:49.question - should Scotland be an question - should Scotland be an
:12:49. > :12:50.question - should Scotland be an independent country - yes or or no?
:12:50. > :12:53.independent country - yes or or no? independent country - yes or or no?
:12:53. > :12:54.I am passionate about the UK I am passionate about the UK
:12:54. > :12:54.I am passionate about the UK I am passionate about the UK
:12:54. > :12:55.staying as a whole because I love staying as a whole because I love
:12:56. > :12:57.staying as a whole because I love staying as a whole because I love
:12:57. > :12:58.Scotland and I love Britain and I Scotland and I love Britain and I
:12:58. > :12:59.Scotland and I love Britain and I Scotland and I love Britain and I
:12:59. > :13:00.love the fact that I can represent love the fact that I can represent
:13:00. > :13:02.love the fact that I can represent both like Scotland and Britain can
:13:02. > :13:03.be together. be together.
:13:03. > :13:04.be together. be together.
:13:04. > :13:05.be together. In a year's time we will have a the
:13:05. > :13:07.In a year's time we will have a the In a year's time we will have a the
:13:07. > :13:08.real vote and getting people real vote and getting people
:13:08. > :13:09.real vote and getting people real vote and getting people
:13:09. > :13:10.engaged with that mock vote, it is engaged with that mock vote, it is
:13:10. > :13:12.engaged with that mock vote, it is a brilliant thing. Hopefully, it
:13:12. > :13:14.a brilliant thing. Hopefully, it a brilliant thing. Hopefully, it
:13:14. > :13:15.will encourage them to engage with will encourage them to engage with
:13:15. > :13:16.will encourage them to engage with the real campaign when it comes.
:13:17. > :13:18.the real campaign when it comes. the real campaign when it comes.
:13:18. > :13:19.Students have taken their politics Students have taken their politics
:13:19. > :13:19.Students have taken their politics Students have taken their politics
:13:19. > :13:20.seriously. It is just the rest of seriously. It is just the rest of
:13:20. > :13:21.seriously. It is just the rest of seriously. It is just the rest of
:13:21. > :13:22.us don't show much of an interest. us don't show much of an interest.
:13:22. > :13:23.us don't show much of an interest. us don't show much of an interest.
:13:23. > :13:25.Why then do we suddenly care what Why then do we suddenly care what
:13:25. > :13:26.Why then do we suddenly care what they think? Well, given that boths
:13:26. > :13:27.they think? Well, given that boths they think? Well, given that boths
:13:27. > :13:29.they think? Well, given that boths sides in this -- both sides claim
:13:29. > :13:31.sides in this -- both sides claim sides in this -- both sides claim
:13:31. > :13:32.to best represent Scotland's future, to best represent Scotland's future,
:13:32. > :13:33.to best represent Scotland's future, to best represent Scotland's future,
:13:33. > :13:34.then whoever wins here can claim a then whoever wins here can claim a
:13:34. > :13:35.then whoever wins here can claim a political coup, even though many of
:13:35. > :13:37.political coup, even though many of political coup, even though many of
:13:37. > :13:38.the people voting today won be the people voting today won be
:13:38. > :13:39.the people voting today won be the people voting today won be
:13:39. > :13:41.eligible to -- won be eligible to eligible to -- won be eligible to
:13:41. > :13:42.eligible to -- won be eligible to take part in the real referendum.
:13:42. > :13:43.take part in the real referendum. take part in the real referendum.
:13:43. > :13:45.There has been political money There has been political money
:13:45. > :13:48.There has been political money spend on this campaign. Glossy
:13:48. > :13:49.spend on this campaign. Glossy spend on this campaign. Glossy
:13:49. > :13:50.posters and placards sit alongside posters and placards sit alongside
:13:50. > :13:51.posters and placards sit alongside the usual photo copies. The polls
:13:51. > :13:53.the usual photo copies. The polls the usual photo copies. The polls
:13:53. > :13:55.opened at 10am, the students were opened at 10am, the students were
:13:55. > :13:57.opened at 10am, the students were opened at 10am, the students were
:13:57. > :13:58.in danger of living up to their in danger of living up to their
:13:58. > :14:00.in danger of living up to their characture. By lunch time, turnout
:14:00. > :14:01.characture. By lunch time, turnout characture. By lunch time, turnout
:14:01. > :14:02.was brisk. Queen Margaret would was brisk. Queen Margaret would
:14:02. > :14:03.was brisk. Queen Margaret would have been pleased to see these
:14:03. > :14:05.have been pleased to see these have been pleased to see these
:14:05. > :14:06.queues outside the union named after her.
:14:06. > :14:07.after her. after her.
:14:07. > :14:08.after her. I feel we are too small a nation.
:14:08. > :14:10.I feel we are too small a nation. I feel we are too small a nation.
:14:11. > :14:12.I feel we are too small a nation. We are a part of one eye island.
:14:12. > :14:14.We are a part of one eye island. We are a part of one eye island.
:14:14. > :14:16.What's the point in breaking things What's the point in breaking things
:14:16. > :14:18.What's the point in breaking things up? Why would would making things
:14:18. > :14:19.up? Why would would making things up? Why would would making things
:14:19. > :14:21.smaller improve anything? I didn't vote.
:14:21. > :14:22.vote. vote.
:14:22. > :14:25.REPORTER: Why not? To get Scotland REPORTER: Why not? To get Scotland
:14:25. > :14:26.as a single country. as a single country.
:14:26. > :14:28.REPORTER: Independence? I don't REPORTER: Independence? I don't
:14:28. > :14:29.REPORTER: Independence? I don't think it would work. I haven't
:14:29. > :14:31.think it would work. I haven't think it would work. I haven't
:14:31. > :14:32.think it would work. I haven't voted, but I don't think would work.
:14:32. > :14:35.voted, but I don't think would work. voted, but I don't think would work.
:14:35. > :14:37.I voted yes because I believe I voted yes because I believe
:14:37. > :14:38.I voted yes because I believe Scotland would be better off units
:14:38. > :14:39.Scotland would be better off units Scotland would be better off units
:14:39. > :14:40.Scotland would be better off units own leadership and -- under its own
:14:40. > :14:42.own leadership and -- under its own own leadership and -- under its own
:14:42. > :14:43.leadership and guidance on every leadership and guidance on every
:14:43. > :14:44.leadership and guidance on every aspect of politics, social policy,
:14:44. > :14:47.aspect of politics, social policy, aspect of politics, social policy,
:14:47. > :14:48.economy and all the rest. economy and all the rest.
:14:48. > :14:49.economy and all the rest. Despite the interest, just over a
:14:49. > :14:51.Despite the interest, just over a Despite the interest, just over a
:14:51. > :14:52.tenth of the 23,000 students who tenth of the 23,000 students who
:14:52. > :14:55.tenth of the 23,000 students who were eligible to vote bothered to
:14:55. > :14:58.were eligible to vote bothered to were eligible to vote bothered to
:14:58. > :14:59.were eligible to vote bothered to take part. Legend has it that the
:15:00. > :15:03.take part. Legend has it that the take part. Legend has it that the
:15:03. > :15:03.stone of destiny spent time hidden stone of destiny spent time hidden
:15:03. > :15:05.stone of destiny spent time hidden in the Glasgow University union.
:15:05. > :15:06.in the Glasgow University union. in the Glasgow University union.
:15:06. > :15:09.The generation who could be The generation who could be
:15:09. > :15:12.considered the authors of considered the authors of
:15:12. > :15:13.devolution, Menzies Campbell and devolution, Menzies Campbell and
:15:13. > :15:16.devolution, Menzies Campbell and John Smith and Donald do you
:15:16. > :15:18.John Smith and Donald do you John Smith and Donald do you
:15:18. > :15:20.remember cut their -- Dewar cut remember cut their -- Dewar cut
:15:20. > :15:21.their teeth upstairs. Should their teeth upstairs. Should
:15:21. > :15:23.their teeth upstairs. Should Scotland be an independent country?
:15:23. > :15:29.Scotland be an independent country? Scotland be an independent country?
:15:29. > :15:31.Scotland be an independent country? The number of yes votes was 967..
:15:31. > :15:41.The number of yes votes was 967.. The number of yes votes was 967..
:15:41. > :15:43.
:15:43. > :15:44.The number of yes votes was 967.. The number of no votes was 1,614.
:15:44. > :15:44.APPLAUSE APPLAUSE
:15:44. > :15:45.APPLAUSE The better together campaign is
:15:45. > :15:46.The better together campaign is The better together campaign is
:15:46. > :15:47.hoping today's outcome is an omen hoping today's outcome is an omen
:15:47. > :15:48.hoping today's outcome is an omen for the future. Of course, the
:15:48. > :15:48.for the future. Of course, the for the future. Of course, the
:15:48. > :15:49.for the future. Of course, the union was very much in its infancy
:15:49. > :15:50.union was very much in its infancy union was very much in its infancy
:15:50. > :15:51.union was very much in its infancy when Adam Smith came here aged just
:15:51. > :15:52.when Adam Smith came here aged just when Adam Smith came here aged just
:15:52. > :15:53.when Adam Smith came here aged just 14, not even he would have been
:15:53. > :15:55.14, not even he would have been 14, not even he would have been
:15:55. > :15:56.given a vote in next year's given a vote in next year's
:15:56. > :15:57.given a vote in next year's referendum. What this advocate of
:15:57. > :15:58.referendum. What this advocate of referendum. What this advocate of
:15:58. > :15:59.Free Speech might have enjoyed is Free Speech might have enjoyed is
:15:59. > :16:01.Free Speech might have enjoyed is the opportunity it has given
:16:01. > :16:03.the opportunity it has given the opportunity it has given
:16:03. > :16:13.students to engage in the moral, students to engage in the moral,
:16:13. > :16:14.
:16:14. > :16:15.political and social debate. political and social debate.
:16:15. > :16:16.political and social debate. Still with me are Jackie Baillie,
:16:16. > :16:16.Still with me are Jackie Baillie, Still with me are Jackie Baillie,
:16:16. > :16:18.Labour's health spokesman who has Labour's health spokesman who has
:16:18. > :16:18.Labour's health spokesman who has actually come straight here from
:16:18. > :16:19.actually come straight here from actually come straight here from
:16:19. > :16:20.the count at Glasgow University the count at Glasgow University
:16:20. > :16:21.the count at Glasgow University the count at Glasgow University
:16:21. > :16:21.this evening as is the SNP's Bob this evening as is the SNP's Bob
:16:21. > :16:22.this evening as is the SNP's Bob Dorris. Joining them is Michael
:16:22. > :16:24.Dorris. Joining them is Michael Dorris. Joining them is Michael
:16:24. > :16:24.Gray of the University's Dialectic Gray of the University's Dialectic
:16:24. > :16:25.Gray of the University's Dialectic Society who organised today's vote.
:16:25. > :16:26.Society who organised today's vote. Society who organised today's vote.
:16:26. > :16:28.Michael, are you disappoiped in the Michael, are you disappoiped in the
:16:28. > :16:29.Michael, are you disappoiped in the -- disappointed in the turnout, or
:16:29. > :16:29.-- disappointed in the turnout, or -- disappointed in the turnout, or
:16:29. > :16:31.-- disappointed in the turnout, or do you think it reflects the fact
:16:31. > :16:31.do you think it reflects the fact do you think it reflects the fact
:16:32. > :16:33.that people aren't interested? that people aren't interested?
:16:33. > :16:33.that people aren't interested? that people aren't interested?
:16:33. > :16:35.lot needs to be done to engage in lot needs to be done to engage in
:16:35. > :16:36.lot needs to be done to engage in the debate. Today we had the
:16:36. > :16:37.the debate. Today we had the the debate. Today we had the
:16:37. > :16:39.biggest single turnout for an biggest single turnout for an
:16:39. > :16:42.biggest single turnout for an election since 2006. So there is
:16:42. > :16:43.student apathy. student apathy.
:16:43. > :16:46.student apathy. That's good for Glasgow, this is
:16:47. > :16:49.That's good for Glasgow, this is That's good for Glasgow, this is
:16:49. > :16:52.That's good for Glasgow, this is good is it? Over 2,500 people voted
:16:52. > :16:54.good is it? Over 2,500 people voted good is it? Over 2,500 people voted
:16:54. > :16:57.good is it? Over 2,500 people voted today in an election we spent �50
:16:57. > :16:59.You think people aren't engaging You think people aren't engaging
:16:59. > :17:00.You think people aren't engaging You think people aren't engaging
:17:00. > :17:01.with the issue? This is a problem with the issue? This is a problem
:17:02. > :17:02.with the issue? This is a problem the debate has been narrow and
:17:03. > :17:04.the debate has been narrow and the debate has been narrow and
:17:04. > :17:06.hasn't focused on inspiring people hasn't focused on inspiring people
:17:06. > :17:07.hasn't focused on inspiring people hasn't focused on inspiring people
:17:07. > :17:08.and our debates went some way to alleviate that.
:17:08. > :17:09.alleviate that. alleviate that.
:17:09. > :17:11.alleviate that. Are you going to have another one?
:17:11. > :17:13.Absolutely. Absolutely.
:17:13. > :17:15.Absolutely. Before the referendum? We are going
:17:15. > :17:15.Before the referendum? We are going Before the referendum? We are going
:17:15. > :17:16.Before the referendum? We are going to try and promote more debate on
:17:16. > :17:17.campus. campus.
:17:17. > :17:20.campus. campus.
:17:20. > :17:20.Now, you can crow for a bit. Now, you can crow for a bit.
:17:20. > :17:21.Now, you can crow for a bit. Now, you can crow for a bit.
:17:21. > :17:23.Quickly, I think it was a great Quickly, I think it was a great
:17:23. > :17:24.Quickly, I think it was a great Quickly, I think it was a great
:17:24. > :17:25.result. I do know that the SNP result. I do know that the SNP
:17:25. > :17:26.result. I do know that the SNP through the kitchen sink at this.
:17:26. > :17:27.through the kitchen sink at this. through the kitchen sink at this.
:17:27. > :17:28.They had the Deputy First Minister They had the Deputy First Minister
:17:28. > :17:29.They had the Deputy First Minister They had the Deputy First Minister
:17:29. > :17:32.there, a number of SNPs and despite there, a number of SNPs and despite
:17:32. > :17:32.there, a number of SNPs and despite that, I think the students at
:17:33. > :17:33.that, I think the students at that, I think the students at
:17:33. > :17:35.Glasgow University thought long and Glasgow University thought long and
:17:35. > :17:36.Glasgow University thought long and hard and decided they wanted
:17:36. > :17:37.hard and decided they wanted hard and decided they wanted
:17:37. > :17:41.Scotland to remain within the United Kingdom.
:17:41. > :17:42.United Kingdom. United Kingdom.
:17:42. > :17:45.That's enough crowing. I don't That's enough crowing. I don't
:17:45. > :17:46.That's enough crowing. I don't That's enough crowing. I don't
:17:46. > :17:47.think there is any excuses. 37% is think there is any excuses. 37% is
:17:47. > :17:49.think there is any excuses. 37% is a reasonable yes vote at this
:17:49. > :17:50.a reasonable yes vote at this a reasonable yes vote at this
:17:50. > :17:52.a reasonable yes vote at this moment in time. It is better than
:17:52. > :17:55.moment in time. It is better than moment in time. It is better than
:17:55. > :17:56.moment in time. It is better than the polls, isn't it? It is a
:17:56. > :17:57.the polls, isn't it? It is a the polls, isn't it? It is a
:17:57. > :17:58.reasonable starting point. I would reasonable starting point. I would
:17:58. > :17:59.reasonable starting point. I would be interested to see the movement
:17:59. > :18:02.be interested to see the movement be interested to see the movement
:18:02. > :18:04.on campus as more students get engaged.
:18:04. > :18:05.engaged. engaged.
:18:05. > :18:06.engaged. Yes, the turnout was low, but I
:18:06. > :18:07.Yes, the turnout was low, but I Yes, the turnout was low, but I
:18:07. > :18:08.also believe that students... also believe that students...
:18:08. > :18:09.also believe that students... also believe that students...
:18:09. > :18:10.are starting to sound like it is a are starting to sound like it is a
:18:10. > :18:16.are starting to sound like it is a real election and you are giving
:18:16. > :18:17.your consent. LAUGHTER
:18:17. > :18:18.LAUGHTER LAUGHTER
:18:18. > :18:19.I want to actually see something I want to actually see something
:18:19. > :18:20.I want to actually see something that the students that didn't vote
:18:20. > :18:20.that the students that didn't vote that the students that didn't vote
:18:20. > :18:21.that the students that didn't vote which is why I'm saying that. I
:18:21. > :18:22.which is why I'm saying that. I which is why I'm saying that. I
:18:22. > :18:22.don't believe the students that don't believe the students that
:18:23. > :18:23.don't believe the students that didn't vote are not engaged. I
:18:23. > :18:24.didn't vote are not engaged. I didn't vote are not engaged. I
:18:24. > :18:25.believe they are becoming engaged believe they are becoming engaged
:18:25. > :18:31.believe they are becoming engaged in the independence referendum and
:18:31. > :18:34.in the independence referendum and in the independence referendum and
:18:34. > :18:35.debate and I think... Young people debate and I think... Young people
:18:35. > :18:35.debate and I think... Young people were supposedly flocking to the yes
:18:36. > :18:37.were supposedly flocking to the yes were supposedly flocking to the yes
:18:37. > :18:39.were supposedly flocking to the yes camp, there is not any evidence of
:18:39. > :18:41.camp, there is not any evidence of camp, there is not any evidence of
:18:41. > :18:42.that? What?That young people are that? What?That young people are
:18:42. > :18:44.that? What?That young people are that? What?That young people are
:18:44. > :18:45.flocking to the yes camp. I am a flocking to the yes camp. I am a
:18:45. > :18:47.former graduate of Glasgow former graduate of Glasgow
:18:47. > :18:48.former graduate of Glasgow University and I don't think
:18:48. > :18:50.University and I don't think University and I don't think
:18:50. > :18:51.Glasgow University turnout of 12% Glasgow University turnout of 12%
:18:51. > :18:52.Glasgow University turnout of 12% is going to be representative of
:18:52. > :18:55.is going to be representative of is going to be representative of
:18:55. > :18:57.young people across Scotland. But young people across Scotland. But
:18:57. > :18:58.young people across Scotland. But young people across Scotland. But
:18:58. > :19:00.it is a significant attempt to get it is a significant attempt to get
:19:00. > :19:02.it is a significant attempt to get opinion of the student population
:19:02. > :19:03.opinion of the student population opinion of the student population
:19:03. > :19:05.within Glasgow University. Were you within Glasgow University. Were you
:19:05. > :19:06.within Glasgow University. Were you surprised by the result? It follows
:19:06. > :19:07.surprised by the result? It follows surprised by the result? It follows
:19:07. > :19:07.national trends. It is not just national trends. It is not just
:19:07. > :19:08.national trends. It is not just about the politicians, it the no
:19:08. > :19:09.about the politicians, it the no about the politicians, it the no
:19:09. > :19:10.about the politicians, it the no just about the SNP and the Labour
:19:10. > :19:11.just about the SNP and the Labour just about the SNP and the Labour
:19:11. > :19:12.Party leading this debate. It is Party leading this debate. It is
:19:12. > :19:15.Party leading this debate. It is about people on their own campuses
:19:15. > :19:16.about people on their own campuses about people on their own campuses
:19:16. > :19:17.and in their own own communities and in their own own communities
:19:17. > :19:20.and in their own own communities and that's hopefully what we
:19:20. > :19:20.started today. started today.
:19:20. > :19:21.started today. started today.
:19:21. > :19:22.You said, are you saying you are You said, are you saying you are
:19:22. > :19:23.You said, are you saying you are You said, are you saying you are
:19:23. > :19:25.going to have another one of your going to have another one of your
:19:25. > :19:26.going to have another one of your own referendums before the 2014?
:19:26. > :19:27.own referendums before the 2014? own referendums before the 2014?
:19:27. > :19:28.own referendums before the 2014? are going to have more and more
:19:28. > :19:29.are going to have more and more are going to have more and more
:19:29. > :19:30.debates on campus. It wasn't only debates on campus. It wasn't only
:19:30. > :19:30.debates on campus. It wasn't only about the vote today, the
:19:30. > :19:32.about the vote today, the about the vote today, the
:19:32. > :19:36.representative yes or no. We had representative yes or no. We had
:19:36. > :19:37.representative yes or no. We had five debates on social jus justice.
:19:37. > :19:39.five debates on social jus justice. five debates on social jus justice.
:19:39. > :19:40.That generated a lot of interest. That generated a lot of interest.
:19:40. > :19:42.That generated a lot of interest. And you would like other
:19:42. > :19:43.And you would like other universities to copy you?
:19:43. > :19:44.universities to copy you? universities to copy you?
:19:44. > :19:45.Absolutely. There will be people Absolutely. There will be people
:19:45. > :19:47.Absolutely. There will be people watching who will be thinking about
:19:47. > :19:47.watching who will be thinking about watching who will be thinking about
:19:48. > :19:48.running these events on their own running these events on their own
:19:48. > :19:49.running these events on their own colleges and own campuses and I
:19:49. > :19:51.colleges and own campuses and I colleges and own campuses and I
:19:51. > :19:52.colleges and own campuses and I would say do it. Do you happen to
:19:52. > :19:53.would say do it. Do you happen to would say do it. Do you happen to
:19:53. > :19:54.know whether anyone else is know whether anyone else is
:19:54. > :19:55.know whether anyone else is know whether anyone else is
:19:55. > :19:56.planning to do this? We have had planning to do this? We have had
:19:56. > :20:02.some interest from other some interest from other
:20:02. > :20:03.universities in Scotland. universities in Scotland.
:20:03. > :20:05.universities in Scotland. Both of you would like the
:20:05. > :20:06.Both of you would like the Both of you would like the
:20:06. > :20:07.universities to do this? We have universities to do this? We have
:20:07. > :20:09.universities to do this? We have seen university students at Glasgow
:20:09. > :20:11.seen university students at Glasgow seen university students at Glasgow
:20:11. > :20:14.engaged with the issues and voting engaged with the issues and voting
:20:14. > :20:17.engaged with the issues and voting to remain in the United Kingdom.
:20:17. > :20:19.to remain in the United Kingdom. Thank you very much.
:20:19. > :20:22.Thank you very much. Thank you very much.
:20:22. > :20:23.Tomorrow's front pages. The Herald Tomorrow's front pages. The Herald
:20:23. > :20:24.Tomorrow's front pages. The Herald Tomorrow's front pages. The Herald
:20:24. > :20:29.have a Tory saying that -- story have a Tory saying that -- story
:20:29. > :20:31.have a Tory saying that -- story saying that horsemeat has been
:20:31. > :20:33.saying that horsemeat has been saying that horsemeat has been
:20:33. > :20:34.found in food for schoolchildren. found in food for schoolchildren.
:20:34. > :20:36.found in food for schoolchildren. found in food for schoolchildren.
:20:36. > :20:36.The Times, fuel prices are set to The Times, fuel prices are set to
:20:36. > :20:38.The Times, fuel prices are set to reach record record levels by
:20:38. > :20:39.Easter. Easter.
:20:39. > :20:39.Easter. Easter.
:20:40. > :20:40.That's all from me. Just time to That's all from me. Just time to
:20:41. > :20:41.That's all from me. Just time to tell you that on Monday Glenn
:20:42. > :20:43.tell you that on Monday Glenn tell you that on Monday Glenn
:20:43. > :20:43.Campbell will be here with a Campbell will be here with a
:20:43. > :20:44.Campbell will be here with a special debate looking at faith,
:20:44. > :20:45.special debate looking at faith, special debate looking at faith,
:20:45. > :20:46.religion and ethics in modern religion and ethics in modern
:20:46. > :20:47.religion and ethics in modern Scotland. He'll have a special
:20:47. > :20:48.Scotland. He'll have a special Scotland. He'll have a special
:20:48. > :20:49.guest panel who will be taking guest panel who will be taking
:20:49. > :20:50.guest panel who will be taking questions from a studio audience.
:20:50. > :20:50.questions from a studio audience. questions from a studio audience.
:20:50. > :20:51.questions from a studio audience. That's at 10.30pm on Monday on BBC2.
:20:51. > :21:01.That's at 10.30pm on Monday on BBC2. That's at 10.30pm on Monday on BBC2.
:21:01. > :21:04.
:21:04. > :21:06.That's at 10.30pm on Monday on BBC2. Good evening.
:21:06. > :21:06.Good evening. Good evening.
:21:07. > :21:08.Good evening. A frost to start the day. We could
:21:08. > :21:10.A frost to start the day. We could A frost to start the day. We could
:21:10. > :21:12.A frost to start the day. We could get as low as minus 10 Celsius.
:21:12. > :21:12.get as low as minus 10 Celsius. get as low as minus 10 Celsius.
:21:12. > :21:13.There will ablot of cloud across There will ablot of cloud across
:21:13. > :21:15.There will ablot of cloud across There will ablot of cloud across
:21:15. > :21:16.the eastern side of the UK. The the eastern side of the UK. The
:21:16. > :21:17.cloud bringing snow showers. cloud bringing snow showers.
:21:17. > :21:18.cloud bringing snow showers. cloud bringing snow showers.
:21:18. > :21:20.Through the morning and on into the Through the morning and on into the
:21:20. > :21:23.Through the morning and on into the afternoon. So grey skies across
:21:23. > :21:23.afternoon. So grey skies across afternoon. So grey skies across
:21:23. > :21:25.much of Northern England, but much of Northern England, but
:21:25. > :21:26.much of Northern England, but Cumbria may have something brighter.
:21:27. > :21:27.Cumbria may have something brighter. Cumbria may have something brighter.
:21:28. > :21:30.Cumbria may have something brighter. There are the wintry showers in and
:21:30. > :21:31.There are the wintry showers in and There are the wintry showers in and
:21:31. > :21:32.There are the wintry showers in and around the wash. Add in the effects
:21:32. > :21:34.around the wash. Add in the effects around the wash. Add in the effects
:21:34. > :21:35.around the wash. Add in the effects of the wind and it will feel more
:21:35. > :21:37.of the wind and it will feel more of the wind and it will feel more
:21:37. > :21:37.of the wind and it will feel more like minus 2 or 3 Celsius. Cold in
:21:37. > :21:41.like minus 2 or 3 Celsius. Cold in like minus 2 or 3 Celsius. Cold in
:21:41. > :21:42.the south-west in spite of the the south-west in spite of the
:21:42. > :21:43.the south-west in spite of the the south-west in spite of the
:21:43. > :21:46.sunshine. It will be cold and grey sunshine. It will be cold and grey
:21:46. > :21:46.across much of Wales. across much of Wales.
:21:46. > :21:48.across much of Wales. After a grey start in Northern
:21:48. > :21:50.After a grey start in Northern After a grey start in Northern
:21:50. > :21:51.Ireland, we should see good sunny Ireland, we should see good sunny
:21:51. > :21:52.Ireland, we should see good sunny Ireland, we should see good sunny
:21:52. > :21:52.spells developing and only 3 or 4 spells developing and only 3 or 4
:21:52. > :21:55.spells developing and only 3 or 4 Celsius come the afternoon. After
:21:55. > :21:56.Celsius come the afternoon. After Celsius come the afternoon. After
:21:56. > :21:57.Celsius come the afternoon. After that really cold start in the west
:21:57. > :21:59.that really cold start in the west that really cold start in the west
:21:59. > :22:00.of Scotland, it will be sunny. of Scotland, it will be sunny.
:22:00. > :22:01.of Scotland, it will be sunny. Generally speaking a fair bit of
:22:01. > :22:02.Generally speaking a fair bit of Generally speaking a fair bit of
:22:02. > :22:03.Generally speaking a fair bit of cloud around to end the week and a
:22:03. > :22:03.cloud around to end the week and a cloud around to end the week and a
:22:03. > :22:05.cloud around to end the week and a lot of cloud to start the weekend.
:22:05. > :22:06.lot of cloud to start the weekend. lot of cloud to start the weekend.
:22:06. > :22:08.Notice the temperatures staying at Notice the temperatures staying at
:22:08. > :22:09.Notice the temperatures staying at Notice the temperatures staying at
:22:09. > :22:11.3, 4 Celsius if you are lucky and 3, 4 Celsius if you are lucky and
:22:11. > :22:12.3, 4 Celsius if you are lucky and 3, 4 Celsius if you are lucky and
:22:12. > :22:13.there is that keen breeze. So again, there is that keen breeze. So again,
:22:13. > :22:14.there is that keen breeze. So again, the wind-chill factor will come
:22:14. > :22:15.the wind-chill factor will come the wind-chill factor will come
:22:15. > :22:16.the wind-chill factor will come that play for the first part of the
:22:16. > :22:17.that play for the first part of the that play for the first part of the
:22:17. > :22:19.weekend. Not dry on Saturday weekend. Not dry on Saturday
:22:19. > :22:19.weekend. Not dry on Saturday because there will be wintry
:22:19. > :22:20.because there will be wintry because there will be wintry
:22:20. > :22:21.because there will be wintry showers and it looks like it is the
:22:21. > :22:22.showers and it looks like it is the showers and it looks like it is the
:22:22. > :22:24.north-east of the UK that's most north-east of the UK that's most
:22:24. > :22:25.north-east of the UK that's most likely to see those, but there
:22:25. > :22:26.likely to see those, but there likely to see those, but there
:22:26. > :22:27.likely to see those, but there could be a bit of wintry weather.
:22:27. > :22:29.could be a bit of wintry weather. could be a bit of wintry weather.
:22:29. > :22:29.could be a bit of wintry weather. The best of any brighter weather on