:00:01. > :00:02.benefit themselves. While Universal Credit sympathise and centralisers
:00:02. > :00:10.Credit sympathise and centralisers Credit sympathise and centralisers
:00:10. > :00:11.Tonight on Newsnight Scotland, a Tonight on Newsnight Scotland, a
:00:11. > :00:13.new report confirms Scotland's new report confirms Scotland's
:00:13. > :00:14.new report confirms Scotland's schools are falling behind. So do
:00:14. > :00:16.schools are falling behind. So do schools are falling behind. So do
:00:16. > :00:17.schools are falling behind. So do we need a new model? And why is
:00:17. > :00:18.we need a new model? And why is we need a new model? And why is
:00:18. > :00:18.there little debate here about the there little debate here about the
:00:18. > :00:19.there little debate here about the transformation of the school system
:00:20. > :00:23.transformation of the school system transformation of the school system
:00:23. > :00:24.just down the road in England? just down the road in England?
:00:24. > :00:25.just down the road in England? Good evening. Record exam results.
:00:25. > :00:25.Good evening. Record exam results. Good evening. Record exam results.
:00:26. > :00:27.High numbers of school leavers High numbers of school leavers
:00:27. > :00:28.High numbers of school leavers going into jobs, or college and
:00:28. > :00:29.going into jobs, or college and university places. The First
:00:29. > :00:30.university places. The First university places. The First
:00:30. > :00:31.Minister told MSPs today these are Minister told MSPs today these are
:00:31. > :00:32.Minister told MSPs today these are some of the reasons our education
:00:32. > :00:34.some of the reasons our education some of the reasons our education
:00:34. > :00:35.some of the reasons our education system is not in crisis. That's all
:00:35. > :00:35.system is not in crisis. That's all system is not in crisis. That's all
:00:36. > :00:37.true, says the Commission on School true, says the Commission on School
:00:37. > :00:38.true, says the Commission on School Reform, but our schools are being
:00:38. > :00:38.Reform, but our schools are being Reform, but our schools are being
:00:38. > :00:39.overtaken by other schools around overtaken by other schools around
:00:39. > :00:40.overtaken by other schools around overtaken by other schools around
:00:40. > :00:41.the world - and our economy will the world - and our economy will
:00:41. > :00:42.the world - and our economy will the world - and our economy will
:00:42. > :00:43.pay the price if we don't learn pay the price if we don't learn
:00:43. > :00:44.pay the price if we don't learn from them. The Commission has
:00:44. > :00:44.from them. The Commission has from them. The Commission has
:00:44. > :00:45.published a report called "By published a report called "By
:00:45. > :00:48.published a report called "By Diverse Means - Improving Scottish
:00:48. > :00:48.Diverse Means - Improving Scottish Diverse Means - Improving Scottish
:00:49. > :00:50.Education". Shortly we'll hear from Education". Shortly we'll hear from
:00:50. > :00:51.Education". Shortly we'll hear from the author among others - first
:00:51. > :00:51.the author among others - first the author among others - first
:00:51. > :01:01.this report from our education this report from our education
:01:01. > :01:01.
:01:02. > :01:06.correspondent, Seonag MacKinnon. correspondent, Seonag MacKinnon.
:01:06. > :01:08.correspondent, Seonag MacKinnon. Over 50 years, reform after reform.
:01:08. > :01:10.Over 50 years, reform after reform. Over 50 years, reform after reform.
:01:10. > :01:14.Raising the school leaving age, Raising the school leaving age,
:01:14. > :01:16.comprehensive schools, Standard comprehensive schools, Standard
:01:16. > :01:18.comprehensive schools, Standard comprehensive schools, Standard
:01:18. > :01:20.Grade exams. But still one in five Grade exams. But still one in five
:01:20. > :01:22.Grade exams. But still one in five young Scots leave school with poor
:01:22. > :01:23.young Scots leave school with poor qualifications. Often struggling
:01:23. > :01:24.qualifications. Often struggling qualifications. Often struggling
:01:24. > :01:26.with the even basic skills in with the even basic skills in
:01:26. > :01:27.with the even basic skills in reading and writing. Now a major
:01:27. > :01:28.reading and writing. Now a major reading and writing. Now a major
:01:28. > :01:31.reading and writing. Now a major new report says it is time to call
:01:31. > :01:32.new report says it is time to call new report says it is time to call
:01:32. > :01:35.a halt. The consequences of a halt. The consequences of
:01:35. > :01:37.educational failure nowadays are educational failure nowadays are
:01:37. > :01:39.personally disastrous. It is personally disastrous. It is
:01:39. > :01:40.personally disastrous. It is difficult to get employment, and if
:01:40. > :01:41.difficult to get employment, and if difficult to get employment, and if
:01:41. > :01:41.difficult to get employment, and if difficult to get employment, and if
:01:41. > :01:50.you do it will be low paid and with you do it will be low paid and with
:01:50. > :01:52.you do it will be low paid and with few prospects for the future.
:01:52. > :01:53.few prospects for the future. few prospects for the future.
:01:53. > :01:57.At Glasgow's Govan High, the At Glasgow's Govan High, the
:01:57. > :01:58.At Glasgow's Govan High, the geography lesson does not cover the
:01:58. > :01:59.geography lesson does not cover the education results. The Commission
:01:59. > :02:00.education results. The Commission education results. The Commission
:02:00. > :02:01.on School Reform tells us Scotland on School Reform tells us Scotland
:02:01. > :02:02.on School Reform tells us Scotland on School Reform tells us Scotland
:02:03. > :02:04.is in the top quarter of the world, is in the top quarter of the world,
:02:04. > :02:05.is in the top quarter of the world, is in the top quarter of the world,
:02:05. > :02:07.but we are sliding down the well but we are sliding down the well
:02:07. > :02:08.but we are sliding down the well tables according to the figures.
:02:08. > :02:10.tables according to the figures. tables according to the figures.
:02:10. > :02:11.tables according to the figures. And half the children of a tick --
:02:11. > :02:15.And half the children of a tick -- countries overtaking us by
:02:15. > :02:17.developing countries. developing countries.
:02:17. > :02:18.developing countries. In a fast-moving 21st century, in
:02:18. > :02:21.In a fast-moving 21st century, in In a fast-moving 21st century, in
:02:21. > :02:21.this global race for jobs and this global race for jobs and
:02:21. > :02:23.this global race for jobs and businesses, the countries with the
:02:23. > :02:23.businesses, the countries with the businesses, the countries with the
:02:23. > :02:27.best education systems are expected best education systems are expected
:02:27. > :02:29.to be the winners. to be the winners.
:02:29. > :02:30.to be the winners. According to the report, Scott and
:02:30. > :02:32.According to the report, Scott and According to the report, Scott and
:02:32. > :02:33.has not lacked good ideas for has not lacked good ideas for
:02:33. > :02:36.has not lacked good ideas for has not lacked good ideas for
:02:36. > :02:39.reform, but many have been based on reform, but many have been based on
:02:39. > :02:40.informed hunches and wishful thinking.
:02:40. > :02:41.thinking. thinking.
:02:41. > :02:42.thinking. London is one of the places in the
:02:42. > :02:43.London is one of the places in the London is one of the places in the
:02:43. > :02:45.world where school reforms appear world where school reforms appear
:02:45. > :02:46.world where school reforms appear world where school reforms appear
:02:46. > :02:48.to have worked. It is no longer a to have worked. It is no longer a
:02:48. > :02:49.to have worked. It is no longer a place where parents escaped from if
:02:49. > :02:51.place where parents escaped from if place where parents escaped from if
:02:51. > :02:52.they can. Success is largely they can. Success is largely
:02:52. > :02:53.they can. Success is largely credited to a scheme called the
:02:53. > :02:55.credited to a scheme called the credited to a scheme called the
:02:55. > :02:57.London challenge lodged over ten London challenge lodged over ten
:02:57. > :02:58.London challenge lodged over ten London challenge lodged over ten
:02:58. > :02:59.years ago. This school is just one years ago. This school is just one
:02:59. > :02:59.years ago. This school is just one years ago. This school is just one
:03:00. > :03:01.moving up a gear by aiming higher. moving up a gear by aiming higher.
:03:01. > :03:02.moving up a gear by aiming higher. moving up a gear by aiming higher.
:03:02. > :03:04.We have seen that young people can We have seen that young people can
:03:04. > :03:04.We have seen that young people can succeed given the right support,
:03:05. > :03:06.succeed given the right support, succeed given the right support,
:03:06. > :03:08.and the no excuse culture means and the no excuse culture means
:03:08. > :03:08.and the no excuse culture means and the no excuse culture means
:03:09. > :03:10.that we know with the right support that we know with the right support
:03:10. > :03:11.that we know with the right support that we know with the right support
:03:11. > :03:12.and the right type of learning, any and the right type of learning, any
:03:12. > :03:14.and the right type of learning, any done person can achieve. That is
:03:14. > :03:15.done person can achieve. That is done person can achieve. That is
:03:15. > :03:19.done person can achieve. That is what we strive to do. -- any young
:03:19. > :03:20.what we strive to do. -- any young person. One other significant
:03:20. > :03:21.person. One other significant person. One other significant
:03:21. > :03:23.things this school does is give things this school does is give
:03:23. > :03:23.extra teaching to students extra teaching to students
:03:23. > :03:27.extra teaching to students struggling with that reading and
:03:27. > :03:30.struggling with that reading and struggling with that reading and
:03:30. > :03:31.writing. That is key to learning. writing. That is key to learning.
:03:31. > :03:32.writing. That is key to learning. writing. That is key to learning.
:03:32. > :03:35.Some believe success may be bent to Some believe success may be bent to
:03:35. > :03:36.large numbers of aspirational large numbers of aspirational
:03:36. > :03:36.large numbers of aspirational immigrant parents. -- it may be
:03:37. > :03:39.immigrant parents. -- it may be immigrant parents. -- it may be
:03:39. > :03:40.down to the large numbers. London down to the large numbers. London
:03:40. > :03:40.down to the large numbers. London down to the large numbers. London
:03:40. > :03:42.schools on now a long way ahead of schools on now a long way ahead of
:03:42. > :03:43.schools on now a long way ahead of schools on now a long way ahead of
:03:43. > :03:44.the rest of the country, to the the rest of the country, to the
:03:44. > :03:45.the rest of the country, to the the rest of the country, to the
:03:45. > :03:46.extent that if you look at children extent that if you look at children
:03:46. > :03:49.extent that if you look at children in the very poorest neighbourhoods
:03:49. > :03:50.in the very poorest neighbourhoods in the very poorest neighbourhoods
:03:50. > :03:51.in the very poorest neighbourhoods in the City, the children their get
:03:51. > :03:52.in the City, the children their get in the City, the children their get
:03:52. > :03:53.GCSE results that are better on GCSE results that are better on
:03:53. > :03:55.GCSE results that are better on average than the rest of the
:03:55. > :03:56.average than the rest of the average than the rest of the
:03:57. > :03:58.average than the rest of the country. So it is better to be poor
:03:58. > :04:00.country. So it is better to be poor country. So it is better to be poor
:04:00. > :04:01.in London than average outside in London than average outside
:04:01. > :04:04.in London than average outside London. That is how huge the
:04:04. > :04:05.London. That is how huge the capital's advantages have become.
:04:06. > :04:06.capital's advantages have become. capital's advantages have become.
:04:06. > :04:09.So what does the commission So what does the commission
:04:09. > :04:09.So what does the commission recommend for Scotland? Every young
:04:09. > :04:10.recommend for Scotland? Every young recommend for Scotland? Every young
:04:10. > :04:12.recommend for Scotland? Every young Scot to have a good crust of
:04:12. > :04:14.Scot to have a good crust of Scot to have a good crust of
:04:14. > :04:17.reading and writing. Support from reading and writing. Support from
:04:17. > :04:18.before birth, relationships with before birth, relationships with
:04:18. > :04:19.before birth, relationships with students crucial to success. This
:04:19. > :04:20.students crucial to success. This students crucial to success. This
:04:20. > :04:24.students crucial to success. This last point is not lost on students
:04:24. > :04:25.last point is not lost on students last point is not lost on students
:04:25. > :04:27.last point is not lost on students or staff. Achieving what I want to
:04:27. > :04:28.or staff. Achieving what I want to or staff. Achieving what I want to
:04:28. > :04:30.achieve for my future. My matter achieve for my future. My matter
:04:30. > :04:32.achieve for my future. My matter what your background is, but the
:04:32. > :04:33.what your background is, but the what your background is, but the
:04:33. > :04:34.what your background is, but the teachers in general will put in the
:04:34. > :04:35.teachers in general will put in the teachers in general will put in the
:04:35. > :04:36.world for you. Obviously you need world for you. Obviously you need
:04:36. > :04:37.world for you. Obviously you need world for you. Obviously you need
:04:37. > :04:38.to put that work in and show to put that work in and show
:04:38. > :04:40.to put that work in and show respect, and they will show respect
:04:40. > :04:41.respect, and they will show respect respect, and they will show respect
:04:41. > :04:46.respect, and they will show respect to do. What can staff do to create
:04:46. > :04:48.to do. What can staff do to create to do. What can staff do to create
:04:48. > :04:49.a good school? Teachers that listen a good school? Teachers that listen
:04:49. > :04:52.a good school? Teachers that listen to children, and understand them
:04:52. > :04:58.to children, and understand them to children, and understand them
:04:58. > :05:00.and listen to whatever problems they have.
:05:00. > :05:01.they have. they have.
:05:01. > :05:02.Govern differs from the chaffinch Govern differs from the chaffinch
:05:02. > :05:04.comprehensive in offering the comprehensive in offering the
:05:04. > :05:09.comprehensive in offering the chance to learn more practical
:05:09. > :05:10.chance to learn more practical subjects like engineering.
:05:10. > :05:11.subjects like engineering. subjects like engineering.
:05:11. > :05:11.The commission wants local councils The commission wants local councils
:05:11. > :05:14.The commission wants local councils to step back from day-to-day
:05:14. > :05:14.to step back from day-to-day to step back from day-to-day
:05:14. > :05:15.running of schools. This head running of schools. This head
:05:15. > :05:16.running of schools. This head running of schools. This head
:05:16. > :05:18.teacher would like to be free to teacher would like to be free to
:05:18. > :05:19.teacher would like to be free to spend more on support staff for
:05:19. > :05:21.spend more on support staff for spend more on support staff for
:05:21. > :05:22.students going off the rails. students going off the rails.
:05:22. > :05:23.students going off the rails. Sometimes even teachers who have
:05:23. > :05:24.Sometimes even teachers who have Sometimes even teachers who have
:05:24. > :05:26.the best of relationships with the best of relationships with
:05:26. > :05:27.the best of relationships with the best of relationships with
:05:27. > :05:34.young people can still be seen as young people can still be seen as
:05:34. > :05:35.young people can still be seen as an authority figure, and so
:05:35. > :05:37.an authority figure, and so an authority figure, and so
:05:37. > :05:38.consequently if somebody else in a consequently if somebody else in a
:05:38. > :05:39.consequently if somebody else in a classroom assistant role and who is
:05:39. > :05:40.classroom assistant role and who is classroom assistant role and who is
:05:40. > :05:41.classroom assistant role and who is an aunt or uncle to them, can make
:05:41. > :05:42.an aunt or uncle to them, can make an aunt or uncle to them, can make
:05:42. > :05:43.an aunt or uncle to them, can make a real difference to them in the
:05:43. > :05:44.a real difference to them in the life chances for.
:05:44. > :05:45.life chances for. life chances for.
:05:45. > :05:46.It in this Edinburgh school It in this Edinburgh school
:05:46. > :05:47.It in this Edinburgh school students appear to be flourishing
:05:47. > :05:49.students appear to be flourishing students appear to be flourishing
:05:49. > :05:51.students appear to be flourishing in a way they did not before. That
:05:51. > :05:51.in a way they did not before. That in a way they did not before. That
:05:51. > :05:55.in a way they did not before. That is linked to a new head teacher and
:05:55. > :05:57.is linked to a new head teacher and is linked to a new head teacher and
:05:57. > :05:59.new expectations. The teacher does new expectations. The teacher does
:05:59. > :06:00.new expectations. The teacher does not check the register, she knows
:06:01. > :06:02.not check the register, she knows not check the register, she knows
:06:02. > :06:03.students well and cheques they have students well and cheques they have
:06:03. > :06:09.students well and cheques they have done their homework and not on
:06:09. > :06:09.done their homework and not on track for personal targets.
:06:09. > :06:11.track for personal targets. track for personal targets.
:06:11. > :06:13.The commission and OECD say that The commission and OECD say that
:06:13. > :06:14.The commission and OECD say that there is nothing inevitable about
:06:14. > :06:16.there is nothing inevitable about there is nothing inevitable about
:06:16. > :06:18.children from poorer homes leaving children from poorer homes leaving
:06:18. > :06:20.school with, qualifications. They school with, qualifications. They
:06:20. > :06:22.point to research suggesting point to research suggesting
:06:22. > :06:23.point to research suggesting children from poorer homes do
:06:23. > :06:25.children from poorer homes do children from poorer homes do
:06:25. > :06:27.better in the education systems of better in the education systems of
:06:27. > :06:28.better in the education systems of countries like Poland and Canada.
:06:28. > :06:31.countries like Poland and Canada. countries like Poland and Canada.
:06:31. > :06:31.countries like Poland and Canada. We have not been good enough as a
:06:32. > :06:33.We have not been good enough as a We have not been good enough as a
:06:33. > :06:34.nation in closing the attainment nation in closing the attainment
:06:34. > :06:35.nation in closing the attainment gap, making sure every young person
:06:35. > :06:37.gap, making sure every young person gap, making sure every young person
:06:37. > :06:40.gap, making sure every young person does as well as they can do. In
:06:40. > :06:41.does as well as they can do. In does as well as they can do. In
:06:41. > :06:42.Ontario for example, they have an Ontario for example, they have an
:06:42. > :06:44.Ontario for example, they have an educator that says poverty is not
:06:44. > :06:45.educator that says poverty is not educator that says poverty is not
:06:45. > :06:46.educator that says poverty is not destiny. We have to make sure that
:06:46. > :06:49.destiny. We have to make sure that destiny. We have to make sure that
:06:49. > :06:50.in educational terms poverty is not destiny.
:06:50. > :06:51.destiny. destiny.
:06:51. > :06:54.Men the education ministers have Men the education ministers have
:06:54. > :06:57.Men the education ministers have talked about closing the gap, but
:06:57. > :06:59.talked about closing the gap, but talked about closing the gap, but
:06:59. > :07:01.progress is tentative. -- many progress is tentative. -- many
:07:01. > :07:02.education ministers. Scotland's education ministers. Scotland's
:07:02. > :07:12.education ministers. Scotland's performance is a round average
:07:12. > :07:14.
:07:14. > :07:16.performance is a round average Will the commission's report proved
:07:16. > :07:17.Will the commission's report proved Will the commission's report proved
:07:17. > :07:18.Will the commission's report proved to be the call to arms which
:07:18. > :07:20.to be the call to arms which to be the call to arms which
:07:20. > :07:21.finally results in vigorous action in Scotland?
:07:21. > :07:22.in Scotland? in Scotland?
:07:22. > :07:23.I'm joined now by Keir Bloomer, I'm joined now by Keir Bloomer,
:07:23. > :07:24.I'm joined now by Keir Bloomer, I'm joined now by Keir Bloomer,
:07:24. > :07:25.whom you saw in the film there, who whom you saw in the film there, who
:07:25. > :07:26.whom you saw in the film there, who led the commission which produced
:07:26. > :07:26.led the commission which produced led the commission which produced
:07:26. > :07:27.the new report on Improving the new report on Improving
:07:27. > :07:28.Scottish Education. Ken Cunningham Scottish Education. Ken Cunningham
:07:28. > :07:29.Scottish Education. Ken Cunningham is General Secretary of School
:07:29. > :07:30.is General Secretary of School Leaders Scotland, the headteachers'
:07:30. > :07:31.Leaders Scotland, the headteachers' organisation. And in Edinburgh,
:07:31. > :07:37.organisation. And in Edinburgh, organisation. And in Edinburgh,
:07:37. > :07:40.Spectator columnist and writer Alex Massie.
:07:40. > :07:42.Massie. Massie.
:07:42. > :07:44.Keir Bloomer, I am curious. You Keir Bloomer, I am curious. You
:07:44. > :07:45.Keir Bloomer, I am curious. You produced all the figures to show
:07:45. > :07:46.produced all the figures to show produced all the figures to show
:07:46. > :07:48.that while schools are still that while schools are still
:07:48. > :07:49.that while schools are still improving a break in Scotland, we
:07:49. > :07:51.improving a break in Scotland, we improving a break in Scotland, we
:07:51. > :07:53.are falling behind other countries, are falling behind other countries,
:07:53. > :07:55.are falling behind other countries, some like England have overtaken us.
:07:55. > :07:55.some like England have overtaken us. some like England have overtaken us.
:07:56. > :07:59.some like England have overtaken us. Briefly, I am curious as to why you
:07:59. > :08:01.Briefly, I am curious as to why you Briefly, I am curious as to why you
:08:01. > :08:03.Briefly, I am curious as to why you think that is. I think that our
:08:03. > :08:04.think that is. I think that our think that is. I think that our
:08:04. > :08:07.system lacks the variety to learn system lacks the variety to learn
:08:07. > :08:09.system lacks the variety to learn system lacks the variety to learn
:08:09. > :08:10.from its own experience. We need to from its own experience. We need to
:08:10. > :08:11.from its own experience. We need to create more variety in what's got
:08:11. > :08:12.create more variety in what's got create more variety in what's got
:08:12. > :08:13.than dos, so that individual than dos, so that individual
:08:13. > :08:15.than dos, so that individual schools can learn from other
:08:15. > :08:16.schools can learn from other schools can learn from other
:08:16. > :08:17.schools. -- in what Scotland does. schools. -- in what Scotland does.
:08:18. > :08:20.schools. -- in what Scotland does. schools. -- in what Scotland does.
:08:20. > :08:22.What do you think the problem is? What do you think the problem is?
:08:22. > :08:24.What do you think the problem is? think the problem is that society
:08:24. > :08:26.think the problem is that society think the problem is that society
:08:26. > :08:27.has changed dramatically over 40 or has changed dramatically over 40 or
:08:27. > :08:28.has changed dramatically over 40 or has changed dramatically over 40 or
:08:28. > :08:30.50 years, and the nature of society 50 years, and the nature of society
:08:30. > :08:31.50 years, and the nature of society 50 years, and the nature of society
:08:31. > :08:33.has changed. We need to it simply - has changed. We need to it simply -
:08:33. > :08:34.has changed. We need to it simply - - not simply address the education
:08:35. > :08:37.- not simply address the education - not simply address the education
:08:37. > :08:39.system but a whole societal system. system but a whole societal system.
:08:39. > :08:41.system but a whole societal system. system but a whole societal system.
:08:41. > :08:44.But why is it that from the mid-90s, But why is it that from the mid-90s,
:08:44. > :08:46.But why is it that from the mid-90s, England has gone from having proper
:08:46. > :08:46.England has gone from having proper England has gone from having proper
:08:47. > :08:47.performance goals than Scotland to performance goals than Scotland to
:08:47. > :08:50.performance goals than Scotland to have been better performing schools.
:08:50. > :08:53.have been better performing schools. have been better performing schools.
:08:53. > :08:54.But is not entirely true. Certain But is not entirely true. Certain
:08:54. > :08:56.But is not entirely true. Certain schools in Scotland now outperform
:08:56. > :08:57.schools in Scotland now outperform schools in Scotland now outperform
:08:57. > :08:59.schools in England. But I am schools in England. But I am
:08:59. > :09:01.schools in England. But I am talking about the average results.
:09:01. > :09:02.talking about the average results. talking about the average results.
:09:02. > :09:03.talking about the average results. England is now ahead, but is the
:09:03. > :09:05.England is now ahead, but is the England is now ahead, but is the
:09:05. > :09:06.England is now ahead, but is the bottom line. So it cannot just be
:09:06. > :09:08.bottom line. So it cannot just be about broad societal changes
:09:08. > :09:08.about broad societal changes about broad societal changes
:09:08. > :09:11.because society has changed in because society has changed in
:09:11. > :09:13.because society has changed in England as well. The relationship
:09:13. > :09:14.England as well. The relationship between different countries'
:09:14. > :09:16.between different countries' between different countries'
:09:16. > :09:18.results are questioned by academics. results are questioned by academics.
:09:18. > :09:19.results are questioned by academics. results are questioned by academics.
:09:19. > :09:21.But what is important is that you But what is important is that you
:09:21. > :09:22.But what is important is that you But what is important is that you
:09:22. > :09:24.look at the state of the nation and look at the state of the nation and
:09:24. > :09:25.look at the state of the nation and the average. It looks as if
:09:25. > :09:26.the average. It looks as if the average. It looks as if
:09:26. > :09:27.sometimes we fall back and sometimes we fall back and
:09:27. > :09:28.sometimes we fall back and sometimes we fall back and
:09:29. > :09:29.sometimes we go ahead. What is more sometimes we go ahead. What is more
:09:29. > :09:30.sometimes we go ahead. What is more sometimes we go ahead. What is more
:09:30. > :09:32.important is to look at the state important is to look at the state
:09:32. > :09:35.important is to look at the state of the nation itself, our nation
:09:35. > :09:36.of the nation itself, our nation of the nation itself, our nation
:09:36. > :09:37.of the nation itself, our nation and what it needs. Alex Massie, a
:09:37. > :09:39.and what it needs. Alex Massie, a and what it needs. Alex Massie, a
:09:39. > :09:41.and what it needs. Alex Massie, a prism you do not dispute the idea
:09:42. > :09:43.prism you do not dispute the idea prism you do not dispute the idea
:09:43. > :09:44.that the education in system has that the education in system has
:09:44. > :09:47.that the education in system has overtaken us. At all the evidence
:09:47. > :09:48.overtaken us. At all the evidence overtaken us. At all the evidence
:09:48. > :09:49.overtaken us. At all the evidence supports this. You have had a 15
:09:49. > :09:50.supports this. You have had a 15 supports this. You have had a 15
:09:50. > :09:53.year programme, going back to year programme, going back to
:09:53. > :09:54.year programme, going back to Kenneth Baker when he was Education
:09:54. > :09:56.Kenneth Baker when he was Education Kenneth Baker when he was Education
:09:56. > :09:58.Minister back in the 1990s and Minister back in the 1990s and
:09:58. > :10:00.Minister back in the 1990s and began work on city technical
:10:00. > :10:02.began work on city technical began work on city technical
:10:02. > :10:03.colleges and then developed by at colleges and then developed by at
:10:03. > :10:05.colleges and then developed by at Andrew Adonis and now Michael
:10:05. > :10:05.Andrew Adonis and now Michael Gove's Conservative reforms with
:10:05. > :10:07.Gove's Conservative reforms with Gove's Conservative reforms with
:10:07. > :10:08.Gove's Conservative reforms with three schools and so on. You have
:10:08. > :10:10.three schools and so on. You have three schools and so on. You have
:10:10. > :10:12.had governments from both parties had governments from both parties
:10:12. > :10:14.had governments from both parties who have grasped the nettle of
:10:14. > :10:17.who have grasped the nettle of who have grasped the nettle of
:10:17. > :10:18.educational reform and net a educational reform and net a
:10:18. > :10:20.transformation in attitude and transformation in attitude and
:10:20. > :10:20.expectation for English schools, expectation for English schools,
:10:21. > :10:22.expectation for English schools, expectation for English schools,
:10:22. > :10:24.and it is expectation that is the and it is expectation that is the
:10:24. > :10:26.biggest driver of increasing biggest driver of increasing
:10:26. > :10:26.biggest driver of increasing standards. In Scotland we have
:10:27. > :10:30.standards. In Scotland we have standards. In Scotland we have
:10:30. > :10:31.blocked reform, by and large. blocked reform, by and large.
:10:31. > :10:33.blocked reform, by and large. strikes me that one thing about
:10:33. > :10:33.strikes me that one thing about strikes me that one thing about
:10:33. > :10:34.strikes me that one thing about this English system and I may be
:10:34. > :10:35.this English system and I may be this English system and I may be
:10:35. > :10:38.this English system and I may be wrong, is that you can have this
:10:38. > :10:39.wrong, is that you can have this wrong, is that you can have this
:10:40. > :10:40.approach of Met 1000 flowers bloom approach of Met 1000 flowers bloom
:10:40. > :10:42.approach of Met 1000 flowers bloom and do different things in
:10:42. > :10:43.and do different things in and do different things in
:10:43. > :10:45.different areas, but what seems different areas, but what seems
:10:45. > :10:46.different areas, but what seems common thread in this system is
:10:46. > :10:48.common thread in this system is common thread in this system is
:10:48. > :10:48.common thread in this system is that you do what you want, but if
:10:49. > :10:50.that you do what you want, but if that you do what you want, but if
:10:50. > :10:51.your school does not performed your school does not performed
:10:51. > :10:52.your school does not performed measurably to metrics that we will
:10:52. > :10:54.measurably to metrics that we will measurably to metrics that we will
:10:54. > :10:55.be looking at very closely, bad be looking at very closely, bad
:10:55. > :10:58.be looking at very closely, bad things will happen to its
:10:58. > :10:59.things will happen to its things will happen to its
:10:59. > :11:00.things will happen to its management. No that is what we do
:11:00. > :11:02.management. No that is what we do management. No that is what we do
:11:02. > :11:04.not seem to have in Scotland. not seem to have in Scotland.
:11:04. > :11:06.Diversity, choice and competition Diversity, choice and competition
:11:06. > :11:08.Diversity, choice and competition Diversity, choice and competition
:11:08. > :11:09.drive up standards. To say that we drive up standards. To say that we
:11:09. > :11:11.cannot improve education without cannot improve education without
:11:11. > :11:13.cannot improve education without cannot improve education without
:11:13. > :11:15.looking at a whole of society as looking at a whole of society as
:11:15. > :11:16.looking at a whole of society as though there is some unified
:11:16. > :11:17.though there is some unified sociological educational theory
:11:17. > :11:19.sociological educational theory sociological educational theory
:11:19. > :11:21.sociological educational theory that will produce some sort of Big
:11:21. > :11:23.that will produce some sort of Big Bang explosion in educational
:11:23. > :11:24.Bang explosion in educational Bang explosion in educational
:11:24. > :11:25.improvement is really ducking the improvement is really ducking the
:11:25. > :11:27.improvement is really ducking the issue. If you want to improve
:11:27. > :11:28.issue. If you want to improve issue. If you want to improve
:11:28. > :11:38.schools, you set schools free and schools, you set schools free and
:11:38. > :11:38.
:11:38. > :13:20.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 101 seconds
:13:20. > :13:21.schools, you set schools free and What we are saying about many of
:13:21. > :13:21.What we are saying about many of What we are saying about many of
:13:22. > :13:30.What we are saying about many of these goals is they are not failing
:13:30. > :13:33.these goals is they are not failing these goals is they are not failing
:13:33. > :13:33.these goals is they are not failing schools. -- the is a schools.
:13:34. > :13:35.schools. -- the is a schools. schools. -- the is a schools.
:13:35. > :13:36.schools. -- the is a schools. aware you make the distinction is a
:13:36. > :13:37.aware you make the distinction is a aware you make the distinction is a
:13:37. > :13:39.aware you make the distinction is a IOUs in League Tables -- comb way
:13:39. > :13:41.IOUs in League Tables -- comb way IOUs in League Tables -- comb way
:13:41. > :13:45.you make that distinction is by you make that distinction is by
:13:45. > :13:47.you make that distinction is by you make that distinction is by
:13:47. > :13:49.using the league tables. We need to using the league tables. We need to
:13:49. > :13:51.using the league tables. We need to intervene and change the management,
:13:51. > :13:52.intervene and change the management, intervene and change the management,
:13:52. > :13:53.intervene and change the management, take it out of the hands of local
:13:53. > :13:55.take it out of the hands of local take it out of the hands of local
:13:55. > :13:56.authority. They are things they authority. They are things they
:13:56. > :13:57.authority. They are things they authority. They are things they
:13:57. > :13:59.have done. Give it to a private have done. Give it to a private
:13:59. > :14:01.have done. Give it to a private company to run. None of these
:14:01. > :14:03.company to run. None of these company to run. None of these
:14:03. > :14:04.things and reflected in your report. things and reflected in your report.
:14:04. > :14:08.things and reflected in your report. There are many examples of schools
:14:08. > :14:09.There are many examples of schools There are many examples of schools
:14:09. > :14:09.in England that have had the in England that have had the
:14:09. > :14:13.in England that have had the management played out, new people
:14:13. > :14:16.management played out, new people management played out, new people
:14:16. > :14:18.Patane, have sometimes had success Patane, have sometimes had success
:14:18. > :14:20.Patane, have sometimes had success and then degenerated Again.
:14:20. > :14:23.and then degenerated Again. and then degenerated Again.
:14:23. > :14:24.average, it is working in England. average, it is working in England.
:14:24. > :14:25.average, it is working in England. On average, I disputed it is
:14:25. > :14:26.On average, I disputed it is On average, I disputed it is
:14:26. > :14:28.On average, I disputed it is working in the way it has been
:14:28. > :14:30.working in the way it has been working in the way it has been
:14:30. > :14:33.described in England. The most described in England. The most
:14:33. > :14:35.described in England. The most successful feature in England is
:14:36. > :14:39.successful feature in England is successful feature in England is
:14:39. > :14:43.what has happened in London. They what has happened in London. They
:14:43. > :14:45.what has happened in London. They pushed that has come from aspiring
:14:45. > :14:47.pushed that has come from aspiring pushed that has come from aspiring
:14:47. > :14:48.recent immigrant families, who in recent immigrant families, who in
:14:48. > :14:50.recent immigrant families, who in many cases constitute a large
:14:50. > :14:51.many cases constitute a large many cases constitute a large
:14:51. > :14:52.proportion of the school population, proportion of the school population,
:14:52. > :14:53.proportion of the school population, proportion of the school population,
:14:53. > :14:56.there is not much to be learned there is not much to be learned
:14:56. > :15:00.there is not much to be learned from that for Scotland. Somebody
:15:00. > :15:04.from that for Scotland. Somebody from that for Scotland. Somebody
:15:04. > :15:06.pointed out there that this change pointed out there that this change
:15:06. > :15:07.pointed out there that this change about the poorer students in London,
:15:07. > :15:13.about the poorer students in London, about the poorer students in London,
:15:13. > :15:14.about the poorer students in London, that has happened over 10 years. I
:15:14. > :15:15.that has happened over 10 years. I that has happened over 10 years. I
:15:15. > :15:20.that has happened over 10 years. I have been to some of the schools in
:15:20. > :15:21.have been to some of the schools in have been to some of the schools in
:15:22. > :15:22.London, where there had primary London, where there had primary
:15:22. > :15:24.London, where there had primary classes were almost nobody spoke
:15:24. > :15:25.classes were almost nobody spoke classes were almost nobody spoke
:15:25. > :15:27.English and they have turned that English and they have turned that
:15:27. > :15:28.English and they have turned that around. It is not about having
:15:28. > :15:30.around. It is not about having around. It is not about having
:15:30. > :15:33.immigrant children, it is what they immigrant children, it is what they
:15:34. > :15:35.immigrant children, it is what they immigrant children, it is what they
:15:35. > :15:37.have done about that. A lot of good have done about that. A lot of good
:15:37. > :15:39.have done about that. A lot of good things were done. The presence of
:15:39. > :15:46.things were done. The presence of recent immigrants is
:15:46. > :15:47.recent immigrants is extraordinarily important. That
:15:47. > :15:51.extraordinarily important. That extraordinarily important. That
:15:51. > :15:54.extraordinarily important. That extraordinarily important. That
:15:54. > :15:55.case was put to me by a London head case was put to me by a London head
:15:56. > :16:00.case was put to me by a London head case was put to me by a London head
:16:00. > :16:01.teacher. A I worry when you talk teacher. A I worry when you talk
:16:01. > :16:03.averages. People were not averages. People were not
:16:03. > :16:04.averages. People were not averages. People were not
:16:04. > :16:10.interested in averages four * A it interested in averages four * A it
:16:11. > :16:11.interested in averages four * A it interested in averages four * A it
:16:11. > :16:12.is something we can measure. -- i is something we can measure. -- i
:16:12. > :16:13.is something we can measure. -- i Wawrinka Utoeya Kapoor Alford the
:16:13. > :16:21.Wawrinka Utoeya Kapoor Alford the Wawrinka Utoeya Kapoor Alford the
:16:21. > :16:22.Jews. People were not interested in Jews. People were not interested in
:16:22. > :16:23.Jews. People were not interested in averages. A parent will take into
:16:23. > :16:24.averages. A parent will take into averages. A parent will take into
:16:24. > :16:25.averages. A parent will take into account a range of things when they
:16:25. > :16:27.account a range of things when they account a range of things when they
:16:27. > :16:29.put their child into this call. put their child into this call.
:16:29. > :16:32.put their child into this call. They will look for high performance
:16:32. > :16:33.They will look for high performance They will look for high performance
:16:33. > :16:38.in examination results, skills for in examination results, skills for
:16:39. > :16:39.in examination results, skills for Employment, all of these things.
:16:39. > :16:40.Employment, all of these things. Employment, all of these things.
:16:40. > :16:41.Employment, all of these things. do know see how that is relevant to
:16:41. > :16:47.do know see how that is relevant to do know see how that is relevant to
:16:47. > :16:48.how we get Scotland schools to how we get Scotland schools to
:16:48. > :16:49.how we get Scotland schools to perform better. It is useful to
:16:49. > :16:51.perform better. It is useful to perform better. It is useful to
:16:51. > :16:53.talk about that. You're trying to talk about that. You're trying to
:16:53. > :16:54.talk about that. You're trying to get us to talk about England
:16:54. > :16:56.get us to talk about England get us to talk about England
:16:56. > :17:02.education, and we would like to education, and we would like to
:17:02. > :17:04.talk about Scottish education. talk about Scottish education.
:17:04. > :17:05.Scottish's -- Scotland's education Scottish's -- Scotland's education
:17:05. > :17:07.Scottish's -- Scotland's education system is not in crisis. It
:17:07. > :17:09.system is not in crisis. It system is not in crisis. It
:17:09. > :17:10.performs well, but it is not performs well, but it is not
:17:10. > :17:13.performs well, but it is not improving fast enough. It is in
:17:13. > :17:15.improving fast enough. It is in improving fast enough. It is in
:17:15. > :17:16.danger of being overtaken. We are danger of being overtaken. We are
:17:16. > :17:17.danger of being overtaken. We are saying they ran and number of
:17:17. > :17:21.saying they ran and number of saying they ran and number of
:17:21. > :17:21.saying they ran and number of things we must do. One of these is
:17:21. > :17:25.things we must do. One of these is things we must do. One of these is
:17:25. > :17:29.indeed, as you were suggesting, indeed, as you were suggesting,
:17:29. > :17:33.indeed, as you were suggesting, Npower schools. Allow them to
:17:33. > :17:35.Npower schools. Allow them to Npower schools. Allow them to
:17:35. > :17:38.Npower schools. Allow them to diverge. I was saying you hold them
:17:38. > :17:39.diverge. I was saying you hold them diverge. I was saying you hold them
:17:39. > :17:42.diverge. I was saying you hold them to account as well. A when schools
:17:42. > :17:44.to account as well. A when schools to account as well. A when schools
:17:44. > :17:45.were failing in England, they were were failing in England, they were
:17:45. > :17:51.were failing in England, they were taken a lot of local authority
:17:51. > :17:53.taken a lot of local authority taken a lot of local authority
:17:53. > :17:54.control. A Alex Massie. I think control. A Alex Massie. I think
:17:54. > :17:56.control. A Alex Massie. I think there is a lot of mealy-mouthed
:17:56. > :17:58.there is a lot of mealy-mouthed there is a lot of mealy-mouthed
:17:58. > :17:59.talk about education in Scotland. talk about education in Scotland.
:17:59. > :18:00.talk about education in Scotland. talk about education in Scotland.
:18:00. > :18:01.You are not allowed to make a You are not allowed to make a
:18:01. > :18:05.You are not allowed to make a comparison with what is happening
:18:05. > :18:05.comparison with what is happening comparison with what is happening
:18:06. > :18:08.in England. Anything which shows in England. Anything which shows
:18:08. > :18:09.in England. Anything which shows the schools in Scotland at a
:18:09. > :18:10.the schools in Scotland at a the schools in Scotland at a
:18:10. > :18:12.comparative disadvantage, it is not comparative disadvantage, it is not
:18:12. > :18:14.comparative disadvantage, it is not fair to make this comparison. The
:18:14. > :18:15.fair to make this comparison. The fair to make this comparison. The
:18:15. > :18:17.fair to make this comparison. The fact of the matter are as Keir
:18:17. > :18:18.fact of the matter are as Keir fact of the matter are as Keir
:18:18. > :18:19.Bloomer said, if you accept Bloomer said, if you accept
:18:19. > :18:21.Bloomer said, if you accept Scottish education is not in crisis
:18:21. > :18:22.Scottish education is not in crisis Scottish education is not in crisis
:18:22. > :18:23.yet, it is presently just about yet, it is presently just about
:18:23. > :18:24.yet, it is presently just about yet, it is presently just about
:18:24. > :18:25.good enough, but not as good as it good enough, but not as good as it
:18:25. > :18:26.good enough, but not as good as it good enough, but not as good as it
:18:26. > :18:28.could be or as good as everybody could be or as good as everybody
:18:28. > :18:29.could be or as good as everybody could be or as good as everybody
:18:29. > :18:32.would like it to be. The reasons would like it to be. The reasons
:18:32. > :18:33.would like it to be. The reasons would like it to be. The reasons
:18:33. > :18:34.need to be addressed. I it argues need to be addressed. I it argues
:18:34. > :18:36.need to be addressed. I it argues the dead hand of local authority
:18:36. > :18:37.the dead hand of local authority the dead hand of local authority
:18:37. > :18:43.the dead hand of local authority control is a serious part of the
:18:43. > :18:45.control is a serious part of the control is a serious part of the
:18:45. > :18:46.problem. We can measure absolute problem. We can measure absolute
:18:46. > :18:48.problem. We can measure absolute failure. The gold standard of
:18:48. > :18:49.failure. The gold standard of failure. The gold standard of
:18:49. > :18:51.Scottish education is five passes Scottish education is five passes
:18:51. > :18:52.Scottish education is five passes Scottish education is five passes
:18:52. > :18:54.Scottish education is five passes at A to C. 12 per cent of state-
:18:54. > :18:56.at A to C. 12 per cent of state- at A to C. 12 per cent of state-
:18:56. > :18:58.educated pupils in Scotland reached educated pupils in Scotland reached
:18:58. > :18:59.educated pupils in Scotland reached that. 12 per cent. That figure
:18:59. > :19:03.that. 12 per cent. That figure that. 12 per cent. That figure
:19:03. > :19:05.that. 12 per cent. That figure drops to seven per cent in Glasgow.
:19:05. > :19:06.drops to seven per cent in Glasgow. drops to seven per cent in Glasgow.
:19:06. > :19:07.drops to seven per cent in Glasgow. All right. We are running out of
:19:07. > :19:08.All right. We are running out of All right. We are running out of
:19:08. > :19:10.All right. We are running out of time. I want to go round you all
:19:10. > :19:12.time. I want to go round you all time. I want to go round you all
:19:12. > :19:12.time. I want to go round you all briefly. If there was one thing in
:19:12. > :19:14.briefly. If there was one thing in briefly. If there was one thing in
:19:14. > :19:15.your report to you would like your report to you would like
:19:15. > :19:18.your report to you would like implementing right now, what would
:19:18. > :19:21.implementing right now, what would implementing right now, what would
:19:21. > :19:22.implementing right now, what would it be? The most important thing is
:19:22. > :19:27.it be? The most important thing is it be? The most important thing is
:19:27. > :19:28.empowering action at school level. empowering action at school level.
:19:28. > :19:30.empowering action at school level. Encouraging schools. All right. If
:19:30. > :19:31.Encouraging schools. All right. If Encouraging schools. All right. If
:19:31. > :19:35.there was one reform you wanted, there was one reform you wanted,
:19:35. > :19:39.there was one reform you wanted, what would it be? Improving the
:19:39. > :19:42.what would it be? Improving the quality of individual teachers.
:19:42. > :19:44.quality of individual teachers. quality of individual teachers.
:19:44. > :19:45.Alex Massie? State schools free.In Alex Massie? State schools free.In
:19:45. > :19:49.Alex Massie? State schools free.In Alex Massie? State schools free.In
:19:49. > :19:51.terms of control, who can run them? terms of control, who can run them?
:19:51. > :19:52.terms of control, who can run them? Yes. Remove local authorities.
:19:52. > :19:53.Yes. Remove local authorities. Yes. Remove local authorities.
:19:53. > :19:55.Yes. Remove local authorities. have to leave it there. Thank you
:19:55. > :19:56.have to leave it there. Thank you have to leave it there. Thank you
:19:56. > :20:00.very much. A quick look at very much. A quick look at
:20:00. > :20:04.very much. A quick look at tomorrow's front pages. Most Harlee
:20:04. > :20:05.tomorrow's front pages. Most Harlee tomorrow's front pages. Most Harlee
:20:05. > :20:07.tomorrow's front pages. Most Harlee Dean with Vicky Pryce. -- most are
:20:07. > :20:08.Dean with Vicky Pryce. -- most are Dean with Vicky Pryce. -- most are
:20:08. > :20:18.leading with Vicky Pryce. The leading with Vicky Pryce. The
:20:18. > :20:20.
:20:20. > :20:23.leading with Vicky Pryce. The The Guardian. Nick Clegg denying
:20:23. > :20:27.The Guardian. Nick Clegg denying The Guardian. Nick Clegg denying
:20:27. > :20:29.cover up claim as Vicky Pryce faces cover up claim as Vicky Pryce faces
:20:29. > :20:30.cover up claim as Vicky Pryce faces cover up claim as Vicky Pryce faces
:20:30. > :20:32.jail. The Times has the same story. jail. The Times has the same story.