:00:03. > :00:08.might have to wait until possible criminal trials, hacking and
:00:08. > :00:12.corruption, are over. A little earlier I spoke to Daniel
:00:12. > :00:15.Morgan's brother, Alastair. What do you hope will come from
:00:15. > :00:18.What do you hope will come from this new inquiry? Well I obscure ups
:00:18. > :00:28.this new inquiry? Well I suppose more than anything else a
:00:28. > :00:28.
:00:28. > :00:32.recognition of the extent of the diplomatic. How many children have
:00:32. > :00:36.been looked after by alcoholic and drug addicted parents? We look at
:00:36. > :00:40.how best to deal with it. A report from a trick of Scotland committee
:00:40. > :00:44.is not the type of things that you'd expect to make headlines and cause
:00:44. > :00:48.offence in the middle east but that is what happened after the Church
:00:48. > :00:52.and Society Council issued a paper arguing the script does not support
:00:52. > :00:58.Jewish claims to the land of Israel. The Israel ambassador himself has
:00:58. > :01:01.condemned the problem -- has condemned the report.
:01:01. > :01:05.The Church of Scotland has called for the withdrawal of the Israeli
:01:05. > :01:11.military from the West Bank. What has made this report so in century
:01:11. > :01:18.is the use of Scripture and theology to argue that the Jewish people have
:01:18. > :01:22.no particular right to the territory of Israel. The author questions the
:01:22. > :01:26.look for interpretation of the Bible which says the land was promised to
:01:26. > :01:31.the Israelites by God. They say Christians should not be supporting
:01:31. > :01:34.any claims by Jewish or any other people to an exclusive or even
:01:34. > :01:40.privileged to divine right to possess particular territory. It is
:01:40. > :01:45.a misuse of the Bible to use it as a topographic guide to settle
:01:45. > :01:47.contemporary conflicts over land. The report is intended for
:01:47. > :01:52.discussion by the general SMP are one of the so-called deliverance is
:01:52. > :01:57.that delegates will be asked to agree suggest the church should
:01:57. > :02:01.refute claims that Scripture offers any people is a privileged claim for
:02:01. > :02:11.possession of a particular territory. The Israeli ambassador to
:02:11. > :02:31.
:02:31. > :02:34.the UK reacted to the report article in the Jerusalem Post.
:02:34. > :02:38.Representatives of the Church and the Jewish community in Scotland met
:02:38. > :02:43.today in an attempt to calm matters. They agreed a new
:02:43. > :02:47.introduction should be written to clarify language and to reaffirm
:02:47. > :02:51.that there is no change in the Church of Scotland 's long-held
:02:51. > :02:54.position of the rights of Israel to exist. Both sides agreed not to
:02:54. > :02:59.speak to the media until debate at the General assembly later this
:02:59. > :03:05.month. Within a matter of hours the Church of Scotland has gone from
:03:05. > :03:11.taking an outspoken version of the issued to saying nothing at all.
:03:11. > :03:15.I'm joined now by Marcus Dysch of the Jewish crook -- of the Jewish
:03:15. > :03:21.Chronicle who broke this story and in Glasgow by attempt to Mac,
:03:21. > :03:27.commentator on religious matters. Just tell us the story about what
:03:27. > :03:30.has been happening. It started life as a fairly obscure report. It seems
:03:30. > :03:35.to have snowballed. Probably the church has been quite surprised by
:03:35. > :03:38.the level of upset within the Jewish community, not just in Scotland but
:03:38. > :03:44.across Britain and when we broke the story in the Jewish Chronicle last
:03:44. > :03:47.week, it didn't spiral out of control but the reaction surprised a
:03:47. > :03:52.lot of people in the Church of Scotland. You shouldn't
:03:52. > :03:55.underestimate the depth of upset and hurt within the Jewish community,
:03:55. > :04:00.especially in Scotland and nationally across Britain. And what
:04:00. > :04:06.they discovered and what Jewish people discovered in the report when
:04:06. > :04:12.they found it was going to be going to the assembly next month. It is
:04:12. > :04:14.not just in Britain, is it? We've had columns in the Jerusalem Post.
:04:15. > :04:20.The Jewish anti-defamation league has been speaking out against it,
:04:20. > :04:25.too. It has caused a diplomatic incident, almost. Internationally,
:04:25. > :04:29.there is a lot of concern. The British ambassador to Britain's
:04:29. > :04:35.comments to the report were mentioned as well. The effect this
:04:35. > :04:38.could have on communities in Britain is great. The position the Scottish
:04:38. > :04:42.Jews are coming from and the difficult circumstances for them in
:04:42. > :04:46.Scotland at the moment for quite some time Scotland has been
:04:46. > :04:52.considered as a hotbed of anti-Israel activity. And this,
:04:52. > :04:56.coming from the church, piles the pressure on the Jewish community.
:04:56. > :05:00.Can you explain in your view what it is that is giving so much offence?
:05:00. > :05:05.Resume a break, if the Church of Scotland came out and said we think
:05:05. > :05:09.Israel should stick by UN resolutions and stick to their
:05:09. > :05:14.land, than a lot of people would say in the Jewish community we don't
:05:14. > :05:20.agree with you but fair is fair, you're entitled to your opinion.
:05:20. > :05:23.Those things you've explained about boycotts on the politics behind it
:05:23. > :05:26.is perhaps unfortunately quite common at the moment and the Israeli
:05:26. > :05:31.international arena is facing a lot of questions about this. What we
:05:31. > :05:34.don't expect is some of the language that is used, the terminology. When
:05:34. > :05:40.you move into a position as the church has done when you are
:05:40. > :05:42.questioning Jewish people's rights to the land of Israel based on
:05:42. > :05:48.Israeli government policy, you're starting to stray into dangerous
:05:48. > :05:55.territory, maybe this is why the Church has stripped itself up here
:05:55. > :05:59.by talking about Jewish rights to the land of Israel. Johnston McKay,
:05:59. > :06:04.what seems to have given particular offence is this strand in the
:06:04. > :06:07.document which basically says Jewish people don't understand their own
:06:07. > :06:13.Scripture and we are going to tell them what the correct interpretation
:06:13. > :06:18.of their Scripture is. We want to promote the rights of Palestinians,
:06:18. > :06:23.that is one thing, but to say you guys... At one point it talks about
:06:23. > :06:26.how Jesus had a new interpretation of what the land of Israel meant and
:06:26. > :06:31.how the Jews didn't understand it. You can see why a lot of Jewish
:06:31. > :06:35.people would find that very uncomfortable and reminiscent of the
:06:35. > :06:39.old arguments of anti-Semitism. would first of all say that if a
:06:39. > :06:44.Christian church starts talking about what Jesus said, you cannot
:06:44. > :06:48.necessarily accuse it of being anti-Semitic. I'm not suggesting it
:06:48. > :06:53.is but I am suggesting the argument that somehow the Jews don't
:06:53. > :06:59.understand themselves and don't understand Israel and the Christians
:06:59. > :07:03.do is uncomfortably reminiscent of the idea of an original Judaic sin.
:07:03. > :07:08.The Church of Scotland since 1947 has supported the existence of the
:07:08. > :07:13.state of Israel. Of that there is no question and there is nothing that I
:07:13. > :07:19.have seen over the last few days that in anyway undermines the Church
:07:19. > :07:21.of Scotland's commitment to the existence of the Church of -- State
:07:22. > :07:25.of Israel. What the Church of Scotland has said is that it
:07:26. > :07:31.believes there needs to be a two state solution and therefore there
:07:31. > :07:35.ought to be some sort of Palestinian state. That is the exceptional...
:07:35. > :07:41.Look come if the board of deputies of the British Jews came on tonight
:07:41. > :07:45.and said, look, I've been looking at the new Testament and I think that
:07:45. > :07:49.any reasonable perpetration, any Christian church should have
:07:49. > :07:54.bishops, the Church of Scotland would say that is outrageous! You
:07:54. > :07:59.cannot tell us what our own religion is! Lets be realistic about this.
:07:59. > :08:04.These are not too similar situations at all. The new Testament doesn't
:08:04. > :08:09.take anything whatsoever as far as I can see about the state of Israel.
:08:09. > :08:15.The new Testament is talking about when it talks about Israel or the
:08:15. > :08:20.new Israel, it talks about metaphor. In terms of the old Testament, as we
:08:20. > :08:23.called it, there is no question the Church of Scotland has consistently
:08:23. > :08:28.supported the state of Israel and suddenly this should now be brought
:08:28. > :08:37.up as if we were no longer doing so. Marcus Dysch, do you see the point
:08:37. > :08:42.of any of that or is there and absence of meeting of minds? There
:08:42. > :08:44.was no consultation with the Jewish people over this. It has asked
:08:44. > :08:54.anybody in the Jewish community what it thinks about it. It starts
:08:54. > :08:55.
:08:55. > :08:58.telling the church we should be questioning the Jewish rights to
:08:58. > :09:05.Israel. It is cared understand why the Jewish community is so concerned
:09:05. > :09:09.about that. Perhaps it is a naive of the Church to not have thought of
:09:09. > :09:14.this when they didn't bother speaking to the Jewish people in the
:09:14. > :09:18.first place for any consultation. Very briefly. I don't think the
:09:18. > :09:24.church is saying that at all. It has consistently supported the state of
:09:24. > :09:32.Israel, it is not suggesting that because there should be support for
:09:32. > :09:37.Palestinians. Thank you both very much indeed. As you sit watching
:09:37. > :09:40.this, perhaps in the comfort of your home, perhaps enjoying an out cup --
:09:40. > :09:44.nightcap, would it surprise you to know that at least 80,000 children
:09:44. > :09:49.in Scotland tonight being cared for by alcoholic or drug addicted
:09:49. > :09:53.parents? Can Bailey of Scotland's children's Commissioner and he says
:09:53. > :09:58.that such parents aren't always bad parents. I will be speaking to him
:09:58. > :10:01.in a moment, but first, we report on whether we spend too much time
:10:01. > :10:11.supporting the problems of adults that a children's needs are often
:10:11. > :10:21.
:10:21. > :10:24.overlooked. Scotland's long documented relationship with alcohol
:10:24. > :10:31.and drugs brings repercussions for our health service, society at large
:10:31. > :10:35.and tens of thousands of families. Children whose site -- childhoods
:10:35. > :10:40.are stolen, caught up in a cycle of addiction. This father of three from
:10:40. > :10:48.Fife says their family was unremarkable but his ex-partner's
:10:48. > :10:53.mood swings led to chaos caused by drinking. For the most part people
:10:53. > :11:00.thought we would all key and we got on well. If you are outside the
:11:00. > :11:07.house, it was a different story. If you were inside the house, you could
:11:07. > :11:11.hear the animosity and attention on a daily basis. I ended up with
:11:11. > :11:19.custody but by then my oldest child was off the rails and coming in
:11:19. > :11:26.drunk. The implications of living with their mother was massive.
:11:26. > :11:35.According to the Scottish government, the license up to 40,000
:11:35. > :11:39.children are affected by appearance using drugs. The number rose to
:11:39. > :11:45.50,000 for a parent with alcohol problems. Tens of thousands more
:11:45. > :11:51.never enter the system. When they do, there are widespread variations
:11:51. > :11:55.in the support families are given. Too often the needs of offspring are
:11:56. > :12:00.overlooked in attempts to help the parents. Parents are given too many
:12:00. > :12:05.chances before decisions are made. It is right to try and keep our
:12:05. > :12:11.family together, but the focus is too much in some cases on helping
:12:11. > :12:16.those parents get better. Ultimately decisions need to be made and you
:12:16. > :12:22.have to stop taking too many chances and saying, we cannot have this any
:12:22. > :12:27.more it is in the children's best interest to police them elsewhere.
:12:27. > :12:30.In Scotland there are tens of thousands of children affected. He
:12:30. > :12:39.did not have the capacity to take all of them away from the families.
:12:39. > :12:49.Even if we get, at care placement can be what vulnerable children
:12:49. > :12:53.need, but if they are supported to stay in the family home, they can
:12:53. > :12:58.experience far better life than children who are taken into care.
:12:59. > :13:04.There is no lack of good well, there are hundreds of charities and faulty
:13:04. > :13:07.organisations dedicated to helping families with addiction problems.
:13:07. > :13:12.This one run by the ABBA liar childcare trust works to help
:13:12. > :13:20.mothers with their children. It is funded by Glasgow City Council but
:13:20. > :13:27.it can only help 12 families at a time. It is nearly always cool.
:13:27. > :13:31.is where the children's whose moms use the charity come. The scheme has
:13:31. > :13:36.been operating for a year. If it works it is the perfect solution,
:13:36. > :13:43.helping addicts recover without taking away their children. Can
:13:43. > :13:46.Scotland a foredeck? Scotland as a country of compassion and
:13:46. > :13:52.opportunity. It recognises that everyone has strengths. Everybody
:13:52. > :13:57.loves their children deep down, we all have that capacity. We're here
:13:57. > :14:04.to try bring that to the fore and help them tackle some of the other
:14:04. > :14:08.key difficult issues that those families face on a daily basis.
:14:08. > :14:14.resources to look at alternative forms of support to care. More
:14:14. > :14:18.support in relation to families, especially for complex families who
:14:18. > :14:27.may be quite difficult to work with, but the long-term benefits are worth
:14:27. > :14:34.it. The Scottish government said it is committed to ensuring children at
:14:34. > :14:39.risk I helped sinner of the more consistent approach. -- sooner.
:14:39. > :14:43.Focusing on the needs of the child and not the needs of the system.
:14:43. > :14:49.Tam Baillie is the Children's Commissioner and he joins me now.
:14:49. > :14:53.I'm getting confused, you were quoted the other day saying that
:14:53. > :15:00.just because parents are drug addicts or alcoholics that does not
:15:00. > :15:07.mean their children should be taken away. I am not quite sure what this
:15:07. > :15:13.debate is about. Is the sum to be about changing the emphasis? The key
:15:13. > :15:18.thing is individual assessments. Some suggestions have been looking
:15:18. > :15:25.at trying to have easy solutions, some kind of tech box, a parent is
:15:25. > :15:32.our drug user, that means the automatic removal of the child.
:15:32. > :15:37.Clearly, there are children in neglectful or dangerous
:15:37. > :15:44.circumstances and we have to get to this children. It was mentioned in
:15:44. > :15:50.the film about lack of resources. One of the key things about younger
:15:50. > :15:53.children is universal services, health visits. They are the main
:15:53. > :15:58.universal service in our youngest families, where we have most
:15:58. > :16:02.concerns. If you do not identify the families who need additional
:16:02. > :16:10.support, we will miss those families. Even if we do identify
:16:10. > :16:12.them, we have very inconsistent assessment processes. That leads to
:16:12. > :16:19.lack of confidence in the decision-making about where their
:16:19. > :16:25.children should be. You heard there is too much emphasis put on keeping
:16:25. > :16:28.families together. The social services are being run for the
:16:28. > :16:37.benefit of the adults and not the children. Is there any truth in
:16:37. > :16:42.that? Yes, I sent the evidence to the committee. It has been said
:16:42. > :16:49.repeatedly about having an overly optimistic approach in terms of the
:16:49. > :16:53.capacity of the adults to change behaviour. We have two challenge the
:16:53. > :17:02.decision-making that is just based on an adult's capacity to change
:17:02. > :17:06.behaviour. You are not making blanket proposals that in more cases
:17:06. > :17:12.children should be left with the families. You're saying it may be
:17:12. > :17:17.the opposite. There are two things. If we get better at identify the
:17:17. > :17:21.children and assessing what children need, that might reduce the
:17:21. > :17:26.likelihood of children coming into care at a litre date. The second
:17:26. > :17:29.thing is if we get better at identifying children, were likely to
:17:29. > :17:34.come across children who need support these and know and who might
:17:34. > :17:39.have to be moved into care. There are two pressures in the system just
:17:40. > :17:43.now, one is to go for early intervention and the second is we
:17:43. > :17:48.know there are a lot of children who missed by social services right now.
:17:48. > :17:54.If we have better Unicef -- universal services they can pick up
:17:54. > :17:58.on this children. There is a lack of resources and the health service for
:17:58. > :18:08.instance. To get round the problem of children being missed, what more
:18:08. > :18:11.
:18:11. > :18:15.do you need? That is a pressing keys for additional health visitors.
:18:15. > :18:21.that the problem of just having people to visit which is the problem
:18:21. > :18:25.or is there a problem about not identifying, even in high profile
:18:25. > :18:30.cases families have not been identified as problem families.
:18:30. > :18:38.quality of assessments as variable. I have said that to the committee
:18:38. > :18:42.and we have to get better at looking at assessments, looking at the
:18:42. > :18:46.relationship between the parent and child. We have to look at the
:18:46. > :18:53.evidence of what will make a successful placement for a child at
:18:53. > :19:00.home as opposed to in care. Thank you very much. A quick look at the
:19:00. > :19:10.front pages. Cameron facing rebellion over EU decider. The
:19:10. > :19:10.