:00:12. > :00:15.supporting those firms, then we may Tonight on Newsnight Scotland, yet
:00:15. > :00:19.another supposingly authoritative report on independence, this time
:00:19. > :00:26.the Scottish Government says Scotland is being held back by the
:00:26. > :00:30.union. Opponents say they have come up with nothing new. We will ask
:00:31. > :00:35.whether that is fair. Alex Salmond has made his further push for
:00:35. > :00:42.independence and said Scotland could be successful if it goes its own
:00:42. > :00:47.way. Today the paper was launched outlining the key economic strength.
:00:47. > :00:53.Some thinking reconnecting with industry, with real people. Mr
:00:53. > :01:01.Salmond said Scotland generated more tax per head than the kusmt for the
:01:01. > :01:10.past -- UK for the past 30 years. This has been dismissed as flimsy.
:01:10. > :01:15.Another day, another press launch in a factory. Today, the first minister
:01:15. > :01:20.and deputy first minister visited this bus manufacturer, seen as a
:01:20. > :01:28.Scottish success story, to spread the latest economic message about
:01:28. > :01:33.independence There was the usual kind of PR event - Alex Salmond and
:01:33. > :01:39.Nicola Sturgeon toured around the premises. As that was going on, the
:01:39. > :01:42.journalists milled about in their high visibility get-up as they
:01:43. > :01:48.awaited speeches. First the company's enthusiastic
:01:48. > :01:52.Vice-President started with a few words of introduction. They have
:01:52. > :01:58.been dedicated, all of their lives to repositioning Scotland on the
:01:58. > :02:02.political landscape. We are on a journey to create new opportunities
:02:03. > :02:06.and to globalise their business. Then the first minister took to the
:02:06. > :02:10.let tern with the message that Scotland is doing all right, but
:02:10. > :02:15.could do better. We have huge potential, but to realise that
:02:15. > :02:19.potential we have to have more of the levers of economic power. We
:02:19. > :02:23.have used the instruments of power in the economy we have at the
:02:23. > :02:28.present moment to help this company develop. We have helped with the
:02:28. > :02:32.apprenticeship fund. We have helped with tin knowation fund for new
:02:32. > :02:37.products N the same way, with the limited powers we have, we will help
:02:37. > :02:41.companies develop. The companies were based on the latest report,
:02:41. > :02:46.outlining the nation's key economic strengths. Other than oil and
:02:46. > :02:55.banking, which have been the focus of much of the debate, it says the
:02:55. > :03:01.food and drink industry has seen exports. It points out creative
:03:01. > :03:06.industries have a turnover of �4.8 billion. Life sciences employ more
:03:06. > :03:09.than 30,000 people. Back at the bus factory a few members of the
:03:09. > :03:17.workforce got to put questions to the Government. Scotland seem to
:03:17. > :03:22.have an uncope door approach to companies like mer say dis and Volvo
:03:22. > :03:29.-- Mercedes and Volvo, can't we do more to protect the companies? We
:03:29. > :03:33.are not We are not in a world where we say we will only take buss from
:03:33. > :03:38.our country. If we did that you would not sell to America, to Hong
:03:38. > :03:44.Kong. We are in a world where you survive by the excellence of your
:03:44. > :03:47.product, as this company is doing. would welcome your views in on where
:03:47. > :03:52.the Government stands in supporting... We are very keen to
:03:52. > :03:55.look at the targeted ways in which we can give you further assistance.
:03:55. > :03:59.Manufacturing in general, it is a big priority area for the Scottish
:03:59. > :04:04.economy. One of the accusations levelled at both sides of this
:04:04. > :04:08.debate in the past has been a lack of information and in that respect,
:04:08. > :04:16.referendum papers have sometimes been like buses - none for ages and
:04:16. > :04:20.then two come along almost at once. Yesterday, Scottish Secretary
:04:20. > :04:24.Michael Moore, launched a Treasury paper, not in a factory, warning
:04:24. > :04:29.that an independent Scotland could be a scary prospect. This time, he
:04:29. > :04:35.said, there could be significant difficulties providing protection
:04:35. > :04:45.for savers and pensioners. Financial services sell 90% of their products
:04:45. > :04:47.
:04:47. > :04:54.to the rest of the kusmt. UK. We don't want to put a border. We
:04:54. > :05:02.can see with renewable industry and the oil and gas sector it is UK tax
:05:02. > :05:07.arrangements which allow the record investments we enjoy. It would be
:05:07. > :05:12.stupid to turn our back on it. you agree, an independent Scotland
:05:12. > :05:17.runs the risk of cancelled or delayed services. Alex Salmond wants
:05:17. > :05:24.to turn that on his head, with his call for people to get on board for
:05:24. > :05:30.a journey to a more prosperous Scotland.
:05:30. > :05:36.I am joined from Edinburgh by the SNP, Kenny Gibson wlorks is from the
:05:36. > :05:44.finance committee, from the Scottish parliament. The and Ben Thomas, who
:05:44. > :05:48.supports the Devo Plus campaign. And here by Ken McIntosh. All this
:05:48. > :05:52.positivity is wonderful - we have this and this, it employs so many
:05:52. > :05:57.people. A lot of people will look at the beginning of the document and
:05:57. > :06:04.think, this all looks finery. Why on earth would you want to leave the UK
:06:04. > :06:08.when things are going so well? can do better. We are in a country
:06:08. > :06:12.with many unemployed. When we compare Scotland's position to, some
:06:12. > :06:16.of the countries in Scandinavia, which are doing better than us, it
:06:16. > :06:22.is clear we have not reached the full potential under the union.
:06:22. > :06:26.Right, and the policies to make us like Scandinavia and make us more
:06:26. > :06:31.equal appear to account to cutting taxes for big business. Well, I
:06:31. > :06:35.think you are well aware that we are a progressive party and we do have
:06:35. > :06:38.an entrepreneurial spirit in the SNP. We are in favour of social
:06:38. > :06:44.justice and want to ensure that everybody in Scotland has a fair
:06:44. > :06:49.shout. That is why, for example, we have the policies such as abolishing
:06:49. > :06:53.tuition fees, for example. You don't need independence to do that.
:06:53. > :06:59.clearly we need the economic levers to generate the wealth Scotland
:06:59. > :07:03.needs. The only policy I could find in there was cutting taxes for big
:07:03. > :07:09.business. Could you give me a single policy in that document which would
:07:09. > :07:14.do anything to reduce inequality? An actual policy? What you are looking
:07:14. > :07:21.to do with this document is to look at the finances of the, of an
:07:21. > :07:25.independent Scotland, it is not a manifesto for Scotland post 2016.
:07:25. > :07:31.What you are doing is... I will not tie you to the document. Can you
:07:31. > :07:38.give me any policy the SNP has which would reduce inequality in Scotland?
:07:38. > :07:41.Well, to reduce inequality we want to tackle poverty. Give me one
:07:41. > :07:45.policy that you could not implement now, that you would under
:07:45. > :07:50.independence, that you have as an SNP policy that would do anything?
:07:50. > :07:54.For example, the most recent has been a bedroom tax. We think that is
:07:54. > :07:59.something we would abolish with independence. Anything which has to
:07:59. > :08:04.do with making pensions better, assisting people on welfare,
:08:04. > :08:06.improving support for our younger people, better childcare provisions,
:08:06. > :08:12.things like child benefit, all these things are controlled by
:08:12. > :08:16.Westminster, as you know. We will give you a chance to think about it.
:08:16. > :08:20.I think you are being unfair. In terms of the "yes" vote, it is not
:08:20. > :08:24.about the SNP trying to win an election, it is about trying to sell
:08:24. > :08:32.an idea on a vision of Scotland. We are not setting up a manifesto for
:08:32. > :08:36.an election. When you fight an election you say... We are setting
:08:36. > :08:41.out what our vision of an independent Scotland could be.
:08:41. > :08:44.take offence. I was only asking you to come up with some policies. They
:08:44. > :08:49.do raise some serious issues, like, for example, the dominance of
:08:50. > :08:53.London, which is becoming somewhat bizarrely more extreme as a result
:08:53. > :08:58.of the financial crash, rather than less extreme, when you look at
:08:58. > :09:03.relative house prices. That is a fair issue to raise. The answer to
:09:03. > :09:08.that is devolution. I think that... Hang on, the question to you would
:09:08. > :09:13.be if the SNP struggle to come up with any policies that would sort
:09:13. > :09:17.out, for example, make Scotland more equal and more Scandinavian, it is
:09:17. > :09:22.reasonable for them to say, isn't it, what policies do you, as Labour,
:09:22. > :09:28.have to stop this increasing divergence between London and the
:09:28. > :09:32.rest of the kusmt? That is a problem that has beset our economy for some
:09:32. > :09:37.time now. We have different stages to tackle. I don't know any attempt
:09:37. > :09:45.by you to tackle it. Devolution was an attempt to devolve power away
:09:45. > :09:51.from London. Devolution... I think it has worked in terms of
:09:51. > :09:56.stimulating the Scottish economy. Over the period of 1999 to now, GDP
:09:56. > :10:01.has risen faster in Scotland than across the rest of the UK. There are
:10:01. > :10:06.lots of decisions that we could be taking, not just devolving power
:10:06. > :10:14.away from London, but devolving power in Scotland. If there is an
:10:14. > :10:19.argument about inequality across our country... You have any policies at
:10:19. > :10:24.thaw would address the dominance of London and the brish economy. The
:10:24. > :10:29.SNP have a bright, don't they? of the Labour Party's policies are
:10:29. > :10:32.addressing social inequality. If there is regional inequality in
:10:32. > :10:37.brin, most of these policies will address that. One policy for
:10:37. > :10:47.example. We would not have increased, sorry, we would have
:10:47. > :10:47.
:10:47. > :10:52.decreased the top -- would would not have decreased... A tortured
:10:52. > :10:57.example. Ben Thomas, where do you stand? Do you sort of, a play on
:10:57. > :11:03.both the houses. I know you think a lot of the stuff the SNP propose
:11:03. > :11:07.could be done without independence, presumably you think that the
:11:08. > :11:12.anti-independence parties are not coming one an alternative. All of
:11:12. > :11:15.them have started to talk about having constitutions. Only the
:11:15. > :11:19.Liberal Democrats have come up with any firm proposals wsy very similar
:11:19. > :11:25.to what we have proposed for the past five years, which is that
:11:25. > :11:28.Scotland should remain part of the UK, but have greater devolved tax
:11:28. > :11:32.powers to match their spending powers. By and large, you don't
:11:32. > :11:35.think the unionist parties are coming up with enough? I don't think
:11:35. > :11:39.they have come up with a clear enough solution. I don't think they
:11:39. > :11:43.have got together to say, this is what we would propose under a "no"
:11:43. > :11:48.vote, so people have the confidence to know that there is something
:11:48. > :11:51.worth... You think it is reasonable for people to ask for that? I do. If
:11:52. > :11:56.you vote no, you want to know what the structure is that you are voting
:11:56. > :12:01.no for. What we proposed to them is in voting no, you should know what
:12:01. > :12:06.that looks like. We would propose that should be much greater tax
:12:06. > :12:10.powers to match the revenue powers. If you want to change Scotland, and
:12:10. > :12:14.all parts of the UK, you have to stop the over centralisation by
:12:14. > :12:18.Westminster, where over 90% of our taxes are raised by Westminster and
:12:18. > :12:24.passed down to local Government and devolved Government in the form of
:12:24. > :12:29.budgets and budgets do not incense tiez people to do the sensible
:12:29. > :12:34.thing. Your argument that most of what they have said today could be
:12:34. > :12:37.done without independence - I am not sure that makes much sense either.
:12:37. > :12:43.Oil fund, I am not sure how you would do that, if you don't have
:12:43. > :12:47.control of a welfare policy. I am not sure what policies you
:12:47. > :12:52.could have that would reduced inequality in Scotland unless you
:12:52. > :13:02.have control over welfare policy. Isn't it blas say to say, oh, we can
:13:02. > :13:16.
:13:16. > :13:25.are responsible for getting people back into work. We propose that as
:13:25. > :13:35.being part in the UK. Defence is better being done in the United
:13:35. > :13:38.
:13:38. > :13:43.Kingdom. Today's document said, Scotland could not reasonably be
:13:43. > :13:53.expected to take on a share of the UK's liabilities if Westminster says
:13:53. > :14:01.
:14:01. > :14:04.it is not due some of the assets. What does that mean? We have 8.4% of
:14:04. > :14:09.the UK population and we are happy to take on that share of the
:14:09. > :14:15.liabilities, but we want that share of the assets as well. This
:14:15. > :14:18.suggestion has been that if the British Government does not agree to
:14:18. > :14:21.a formal currency union with an independent Scotland that somehow or
:14:21. > :14:31.other Scotland would not have to accept a share of British national
:14:31. > :14:32.
:14:32. > :14:36.debt. That is correct. Why would we accept? The point of currency union
:14:36. > :14:46.is not only to help Scotland, it is to help the UK but it lands of
:14:46. > :14:46.
:14:46. > :14:49.payments. - - with its balance of payments. You do not believe it is
:14:49. > :14:54.up to the British Government to decide whether it wants a currency
:14:54. > :15:04.union with Scotland? Melvin King is on record as saying that the
:15:04. > :15:10.currency is Scotland's as much as it is anyone else's - - Mervyn King.
:15:10. > :15:14.This is shadowboxing. We will retain the pound. George Osborne thinks
:15:14. > :15:18.it's an unlikely, but for you to threaten that if the British
:15:18. > :15:24.Government decided not to have a formal currency union that you would
:15:24. > :15:34.somehow refused to take on a share of the national debt, that would be
:15:34. > :15:42.fatal to Scotland should become independent, would it not? You are
:15:42. > :15:47.getting ahead of yourself. The fact that the UK Government has not ruled
:15:47. > :15:53.out a currency union means they think it is in the interests. If
:15:53. > :16:03.there was a yes vote we would go down that road. Your question is too
:16:03. > :16:06.
:16:06. > :16:09.hypothetical. The threat, if it is that, is in your own documents.
:16:09. > :16:14.have set out what the ultimate sanction would be, that everyone in
:16:14. > :16:19.this argument feels that sterling will be the currency for an
:16:19. > :16:29.independent Scotland. Do you accept that #.
:16:29. > :16:33.
:16:33. > :16:38.Why is the British Government being like this? We are already in a
:16:38. > :16:48.currency union. We have some control and democratic accountability over
:16:48. > :16:58.that currency. Why give that up for no control? Most of these arguments
:16:58. > :17:01.
:17:01. > :17:11.are arguments for devolution. not reasonable for the British
:17:11. > :17:13.
:17:14. > :17:19.Government to say they would have a currency union of Scotland? The SNP
:17:19. > :17:24.would like to have an argument with the Tory Government about currency.
:17:24. > :17:34.Do you mean Labour would have a different approach? We asked at a
:17:34. > :17:39.
:17:39. > :17:45.meeting about what the debate would be. - - we are speculating about.
:17:45. > :17:51.The Labour first Minister of Wales has said he would be against it. In
:17:51. > :18:01.the Labour Party there are people who would object to it. If their
:18:01. > :18:05.posturing which could be resolved into something more sensible?
:18:05. > :18:13.art of politics is to accentuate peoples differences. But you are not
:18:13. > :18:17.a politician, so you do not have to say that. If we are going to be part
:18:17. > :18:23.of a currency union that means that the centre will set interest rates,
:18:23. > :18:32.money printing, regulation. If that is the case, why not be a full
:18:32. > :18:36.member of the club rather than an associate member? If independence
:18:36. > :18:39.has to come with monetary union and the scene head of state, why do we
:18:39. > :18:46.not just keep the union that we have but negotiate proper
:18:46. > :18:54.decentralisation? Presumably you would not be against that, Kenny
:18:54. > :18:59.Gibson? I would not be against any of that, but we want control of
:18:59. > :19:09.Scotland's full economy. We want control of Scotland's oil, gas,
:19:09. > :19:11.
:19:11. > :19:15.whisky revenues. We want Scotland to be an equal nation in Europe. I
:19:15. > :19:19.think that is perfectly reasonable. With those powers and resources we
:19:19. > :19:25.can make Scotland a more prosperous country will stop you would accept
:19:25. > :19:30.that you will have to convince people. I come back to the policies
:19:30. > :19:35.you are going to put forward. People will have to be convinced. Whatever
:19:35. > :19:43.the merits of the document you produced today - V give you one
:19:44. > :19:52.example. - - let me give you one example. There are mentions of tax
:19:52. > :20:02.incentives. You talk about man than terry representation for workers on
:20:02. > :20:09.
:20:09. > :20:13.the boards of companies. - - mandatory.
:20:14. > :20:19.We are not putting forward a manifesto. What we are trying to do
:20:19. > :20:23.here is put forward a vision of what an independent Scotland can be. We
:20:23. > :20:33.are in a Coalition in the yes campaign with the grains and
:20:33. > :20:34.
:20:34. > :20:44.socialists and other groups who do not necessarily share SNP policy. -
:20:44. > :20:46.
:20:46. > :20:52.- greens. People understand that, but what you can say is that this is
:20:52. > :20:55.what our vision is at this is what we would do. A lot of your critics
:20:55. > :21:00.from within the independence movement are saying we need detail
:21:00. > :21:10.and radicalism. They are saying we need a campaign that says this is
:21:10. > :21:13.
:21:13. > :21:23.what we think. If this was an SNP campaign it would be cleaner. - - it
:21:23. > :21:24.
:21:24. > :21:34.would be cleaner. People now except Scotland as a viable economic
:21:34. > :21:42.state. Only policy apart from cutting VAT was a cut in corporation
:21:43. > :21:52.tax. Thank you all very much. A quick look at tomorrow's front
:21:53. > :21:58.
:21:58. > :22:08.All the pictures on the front pages are on the after-effects of the
:22:08. > :22:17.
:22:17. > :22:25.trade a macro in Oklahoma. - - attorneys a macro - - the tornado.
:22:25. > :22:34.That is all we have time for. That is all we have time for.
:22:34. > :22:40.Goodbye. A largely dry night tonight. A bit
:22:40. > :22:50.of sunshine across Northern and Western areas. I risk of showers in
:22:50. > :22:51.
:22:51. > :22:59.the afternoon. Dry and bright with sunny spells. Some sleet and snow
:22:59. > :23:09.over higher ground. Much of central and Western England will be dry.
:23:09. > :23:10.
:23:10. > :23:20.More clouds along Eastern counties. One or two showers. Cool in Eastern
:23:20. > :23:23.
:23:24. > :23:30.areas. Warmer further West. Around the coast it will feel cooler.