0:00:07 > 0:00:11bank of England, you didn't see it, Tonight on Newsnight Scotland.
0:00:11 > 0:00:14Meet independence man. He is young, fit and proud to be Scottish. He is
0:00:14 > 0:00:16also the bedrock of the campaign to secure a Yes vote in next year's
0:00:16 > 0:00:19referendum. But where is independence woman and independence
0:00:19 > 0:00:29young person? Tonight we ask, how do the nationalists connect with those
0:00:29 > 0:00:33
0:00:33 > 0:00:36Good evening. Independence man. He is probably a
0:00:36 > 0:00:39manual worker and he passionately believes that he and his country
0:00:39 > 0:00:46will be better off if we vote Yes next year. How Alex Salmond must
0:00:46 > 0:00:51wish others shared his blokish enthusiasm for independence. If they
0:00:51 > 0:00:53did, then the gap between Yes and No would be much, much closer. We know,
0:00:53 > 0:00:57for example, that women's support for independence has persistently
0:00:57 > 0:01:00trailed support among men. And yesterday, perhaps more
0:01:00 > 0:01:06surprisingly, the first survey of the voting intention of teenagers
0:01:06 > 0:01:09showed weak support for ending the Union. So, how do advocates of
0:01:09 > 0:01:19independence reach out to the various groups who so far remain
0:01:19 > 0:01:29
0:01:29 > 0:01:36female, if we become independent next year, the outcome will affect
0:01:36 > 0:01:43everyone. And is the yes campaign struggling? They are struggling in
0:01:43 > 0:01:48getting towards women and younger voters. They are behind in three
0:01:48 > 0:01:53crucial groups. This man says that the independence campaign has a lot
0:01:53 > 0:01:57of hard work to do. The first and biggest and most start is the
0:01:57 > 0:02:03difference between men and women. Men are from pole to pole more
0:02:03 > 0:02:10likely to be in favour of independence than women. The second
0:02:10 > 0:02:16difficulty which is quite evident as the age difference. But the most
0:02:16 > 0:02:23part, old people. People over the age of 65 seem marginally less
0:02:23 > 0:02:33likely to vote for independence. Very much younger people seem much
0:02:33 > 0:02:34
0:02:34 > 0:02:38the same. -- seem to think the differently. The third situation is
0:02:38 > 0:02:42people in manual occupations, working-class people, they are more
0:02:42 > 0:02:47likely to be for independence than middle-class people in well-paid
0:02:47 > 0:02:53occupations. So what about young people? 16 and 17-year-olds will get
0:02:53 > 0:02:59a vote in the referendum. After a study taken at the weekend, 60%
0:02:59 > 0:03:04thought that Scotland should not be independent. About one fifth said
0:03:04 > 0:03:09they would vote yes and a similar proportion said they were undecided.
0:03:09 > 0:03:12We met with this group of students at a college in Glasgow. They are
0:03:12 > 0:03:18planning for the futures but they do not all necessarily think that
0:03:18 > 0:03:23independence is a big issue in their lives. Is it something you think you
0:03:23 > 0:03:29might get more engaged with? probably well. I do not take much
0:03:29 > 0:03:34about it. I do not watch much news. But once it gets close I probably
0:03:34 > 0:03:39will look more into it. I think it is generally due to not knowing both
0:03:39 > 0:03:44sides. If you look at both sides and realise what is going on, then we
0:03:44 > 0:03:49would make our minds up, but at the moment we're over the majority.
0:03:49 > 0:03:53know a lot of 16 and 17-year-olds who can barely feed themselves let
0:03:53 > 0:03:57alone make a decision like that point I don't think we should have a
0:03:57 > 0:04:02decision. One of the students does support independence, she said the
0:04:02 > 0:04:09outcome of the vote would influence what she does after college. I think
0:04:09 > 0:04:13like most of the fiscal power is down in Westminster. If we got more
0:04:13 > 0:04:16of that control up you be good cut business tax and encourage economic
0:04:16 > 0:04:21growth little bit more up your. People like myself and people in
0:04:21 > 0:04:27college would have more chance to start up a business and the economy
0:04:27 > 0:04:32would grow more appear. That is one female voters convinced, what about
0:04:32 > 0:04:37others? Last September of the birth of the Women for Independence
0:04:37 > 0:04:42campaign group. Its organisers want to listen to female concerns about
0:04:42 > 0:04:46independence and convince them it is best to seek yes. Whilst touring
0:04:46 > 0:04:53down the Braveheart rhetoric which is said to that of women voters.
0:04:53 > 0:04:58Well, women are discriminated, and particularly in the independence
0:04:58 > 0:05:03debate we are a bit fed up of seeing generally male faces discussing the
0:05:03 > 0:05:10issues and groaned a very narrow focus. It is not inspiring women to
0:05:10 > 0:05:16get involved. -- around a very narrow focus. Not enough arguing
0:05:16 > 0:05:22about it. It has been dominated by men. We were concerned that the
0:05:22 > 0:05:30voices of women were not being heard. So what does a typical Yes
0:05:30 > 0:05:36vote look like? An image of the kid of person most likely would be to
0:05:36 > 0:05:41think of the present -- of the present tossing the keeper in the
0:05:41 > 0:05:47Highland games, male, young, well built and more than likely to be in
0:05:47 > 0:05:55a manual occupation. That gives you an image of the kind of person most
0:05:55 > 0:06:05likely to vote for independence. Young, male, fit, active. That is
0:06:05 > 0:06:29
0:06:29 > 0:06:37the archetypal boater. -- voter. interested parties. -- I am joined
0:06:37 > 0:06:47in the studio by three interested parties. Do you recognise this
0:06:47 > 0:06:47
0:06:47 > 0:06:51character? Yes and no. There was an excursion into fantasy and fiction
0:06:51 > 0:06:58there that was a little implausible. We do not have enough data. There
0:06:58 > 0:07:06has always been a gender gap in Scottish politics. It was the same
0:07:06 > 0:07:13in the 1979 referendum. Rather huge. So there is something about
0:07:13 > 0:07:18politics, a rather narrow preserver of male -- men in Scotland. And a
0:07:18 > 0:07:24profound sense of disconnection for women regarding issues they see as
0:07:24 > 0:07:34relevant in their lives. They are more cautious and undecided. To what
0:07:34 > 0:07:38
0:07:38 > 0:07:45extent is it the issues featuring in the debate, Natalie? We do lots of
0:07:45 > 0:07:51listening exercises. We find that women have the same issues as men,
0:07:51 > 0:07:56but it is the way they want to find out and impart information that is
0:07:56 > 0:08:02different from the way men do it. We go out into the communities and
0:08:02 > 0:08:05speak and engage with women, who are not at the forefront of this debate.
0:08:06 > 0:08:12There is a gap in terms of representation, in terms of the
0:08:12 > 0:08:20media. There are not many female senior figures. They do not see the
0:08:20 > 0:08:25image reflected in the debate. That is a problem for the whole campaign.
0:08:25 > 0:08:34Gerry also mentioned in natural caution. You have written about that
0:08:34 > 0:08:39in the past? How would you define it? John Curtis can not but a
0:08:39 > 0:08:45caricature of the male voter, but there is a significant minority of
0:08:45 > 0:08:50women who want to vote for independence. But the awareness of
0:08:50 > 0:08:55the gender gap has become more of a focus recently. The very fact we are
0:08:55 > 0:08:59discussing it now is evidence of that. Fiona Mackay at Edinburgh
0:08:59 > 0:09:05University has done some very good work around this, challenging common
0:09:05 > 0:09:11misconceptions. The idea that women are more emotional and want to
0:09:11 > 0:09:15retain a part of the UK, whereas she finds that women are actually more
0:09:15 > 0:09:22cautious and Mike Matic and simply want to hear more of the arguments.
0:09:22 > 0:09:32-- pragmatic. Figures may change as we go forward and the debate moves
0:09:32 > 0:09:32
0:09:32 > 0:09:39on. Patrick Harvie, how do you analyse the gender gap that is
0:09:39 > 0:09:43persistently revealed by Paul on? What the others have mentioned is
0:09:43 > 0:09:51quite right. There is an issue with gender equality in politics in
0:09:51 > 0:09:57general. It is unfortunate that the SNP have not managed to increase the
0:09:57 > 0:10:01proportion of the elected women in Parliament. If we had a parliament,
0:10:01 > 0:10:04and particularly pro-independence political parties that more
0:10:04 > 0:10:09accurately reflected all parts of Scottish society, perhaps the
0:10:09 > 0:10:14dynamics with the different. What if somebody wants to take longer and
0:10:14 > 0:10:21make the end up in a different way, we need to connect with people on a
0:10:21 > 0:10:24different level. In many respects it is a sensible position. If somebody
0:10:24 > 0:10:28is unsure and feels neither nationalist or unionist in the
0:10:28 > 0:10:34bones, they may take your time to reach a conclusion and I believe
0:10:34 > 0:10:42that is quite rational. What do you think would inspire more people to
0:10:42 > 0:10:46get involved? To back the Yes campaign? Is it simply that you have
0:10:46 > 0:10:51to demonstrate that there is a potential to be better off in the
0:10:52 > 0:10:58event of independence? I have previously argued, and I would
0:10:58 > 0:11:04continue to, that we should not pose this debate is about being richer or
0:11:04 > 0:11:14poorer. All countries are facing uncertain times in terms of the
0:11:14 > 0:11:16
0:11:16 > 0:11:21economy. I do not think our interest are determined by whether we are
0:11:21 > 0:11:26just a wee bit richer or a wee bit more. If people have different
0:11:26 > 0:11:33priorities across from sectors of society, which obviously they do,
0:11:33 > 0:11:40then the Yes campaign has to articulate the fact that voting yes
0:11:40 > 0:11:45does not mean voting for SNP economic policy. In recent months
0:11:45 > 0:11:54there has been more talk about policies to improve childcare in the
0:11:54 > 0:12:04event of independence. Well that in it for female independence voters?
0:12:04 > 0:12:05
0:12:05 > 0:12:13-- well that do it? No. In a word. Childcare is a societal issue.
0:12:13 > 0:12:20People get tired of the notion that women's issues are solely gender
0:12:20 > 0:12:24specific. Clearly these things may appeal to women, but women are
0:12:24 > 0:12:30interested in the same things as men. Especially the economy. We need
0:12:30 > 0:12:40to have a proper debate, where it is not merely talking stick to bring
0:12:40 > 0:12:42
0:12:42 > 0:12:52women into the debate. They make up 52% of the vote. -- where it is not
0:12:52 > 0:12:53
0:12:53 > 0:13:03tokenistic. . There are benefits, opportunities to discuss a different
0:13:03 > 0:13:05
0:13:05 > 0:13:11way of doing things. Is it part of the problem of having a broad-based
0:13:11 > 0:13:21campaign for independence that it will therefore be even harder for
0:13:21 > 0:13:21
0:13:21 > 0:13:26anybody in that campaign to define a particular vision? That is true. We
0:13:26 > 0:13:31have a Yes campaign and a No campaign but both are rather
0:13:31 > 0:13:41narrow, professional, technocratic campaigns. Most Scots do not feel
0:13:41 > 0:13:43
0:13:43 > 0:13:49they are talking to them. The missing Scotland, more important
0:13:49 > 0:13:59than John Curtis and his caricatures, is the ruler, younger
0:13:59 > 0:14:00
0:14:01 > 0:14:10Scotland. -- poorer. Absolutely. We need to connect that to the macro
0:14:10 > 0:14:16politics. You say, generational, but it seems the youngest generation who
0:14:16 > 0:14:26will qualify to take part are not particularly keen on the idea. How
0:14:26 > 0:14:27
0:14:27 > 0:14:37do you explain that? There is a huge way in which this debate is not
0:14:37 > 0:14:39
0:14:39 > 0:14:45proven. All the figures are soft. The onus is on the Yes campaign to
0:14:45 > 0:14:54make the proposition for change. They have not yet. But this is still
0:14:54 > 0:15:01up for grabs. Do you agree that the Yes campaign have not yet made the
0:15:01 > 0:15:09case for change? How would you sum it up? Democracy, fearless,
0:15:09 > 0:15:19equality. I believe the Yes campaign are going for with them. --
0:15:19 > 0:15:21
0:15:21 > 0:15:27fairness. How do you make that real? It is about having the powers to
0:15:27 > 0:15:34make that possible for the people of Scotland. But don't you have to
0:15:34 > 0:15:41specify those powers? A lot of people are more pro-independence
0:15:41 > 0:15:48than they even think. When you look at specific issues that people want
0:15:48 > 0:15:58power over, for example, wealthier, taxation, which over two thirds want
0:15:58 > 0:15:58
0:15:58 > 0:16:06power over -- wealthier. -- welfare. When you make that connection,
0:16:06 > 0:16:12people will move into the debate. you think that advocating votes for
0:16:12 > 0:16:2216 and 17 adults have done more harm than good for the campaign? -- have
0:16:22 > 0:16:23
0:16:23 > 0:16:27done more harm. I don't think so. It is a small proportion of voters.
0:16:27 > 0:16:37They would need to be wildly out of sync with the rest of the
0:16:37 > 0:16:38