:00:09. > :00:13.an unusual coalition. The Tonight on Newsnight Scotland.
:00:13. > :00:16.If you go down to the woods today you probably won't be in for a big
:00:16. > :00:23.surprise. But, who knows, maybe at some point in the future you might
:00:23. > :00:25.run into one of these. Or even this chap. They're native to this
:00:25. > :00:32.country, so should we try to bring them back?
:00:32. > :00:34.And time hasn't softened this big beast. Tam Dalyell - arch opponent
:00:34. > :00:39.of Devolution - tells us how he would resolve the independence
:00:39. > :00:41.debate. Good evening.
:00:41. > :00:45.A scheme to reintroduce the white-tailed eagle to the East of
:00:45. > :00:47.Scotland has suffered a setback after the tree in which the area's
:00:47. > :00:50.only breeding pair was nesting was destroyed. The white-tailed eagle
:00:50. > :00:53.disappeared from that part of the country 150 years ago. It joined the
:00:53. > :00:55.elk, lynx, wolf and brown bear in vanishing from our natural
:00:56. > :00:58.environment. But calls to "rewild" Scotland by reintroducing some of
:00:58. > :01:00.these creatures, as well as long-gone native plants, have been
:01:00. > :01:10.getting louder in recent years. Laura Maxwell's been examining the
:01:10. > :01:27.
:01:27. > :01:33.domestication of the landscape? Although Scotland is the least
:01:33. > :01:39.populated race in Britain, just 1% of the once great Caledonian forest
:01:39. > :01:46.remains. Now there are efforts to turn this into deaths. It is known
:01:46. > :01:54.as re-wilding and the issue is the same all over the UK. -- to turn
:01:54. > :02:02.this around. It gets cleared and then it ends up like this, a barren
:02:02. > :02:09.landscape. This is typical of the vegetation here, the heather. We
:02:09. > :02:15.have low, scrappy registration -- vegetation. We think this is what we
:02:15. > :02:21.want to preserve. It is not just about trees. Under European law we
:02:21. > :02:29.have to consider indigenous species. In some cases the process is already
:02:29. > :02:34.under way. After 400 years the beaver is back in the wilds of the
:02:34. > :02:41.West Coast. Released just over four years ago, the family seemed to have
:02:41. > :02:46.settled in well and are busy doing what they do best, building. The
:02:46. > :02:50.Beavers and the only species making themselves at home. The
:02:50. > :02:56.reintroduction of the white tailed sea eagle, the biggest bird of prey
:02:56. > :03:00.in Europe, seems to be successful. But tonight investigations are
:03:00. > :03:06.mentored to find out more about whether the habitat has been
:03:06. > :03:12.destroyed. But if there is resistance to the destruction -- to
:03:12. > :03:22.the introduction of birds, not what would be their thoughts on winning
:03:22. > :03:26.
:03:26. > :03:31.back brown bear is, elk, borders and others. -- more pics. Most of the
:03:31. > :03:37.top links in the great web of life are only just been discovered in
:03:37. > :03:45.terms of their importance. They help to change the world around them.
:03:45. > :03:52.Waleed Wills and on the cards just yet. But applications have been made
:03:52. > :04:00.to bring two pairs of cats to our West Coast forest. This man has been
:04:00. > :04:04.a gamekeeper and stock or for many years, he says it all rests on
:04:04. > :04:08.heavier animals are managed. Scotland has an expanding human
:04:08. > :04:15.population, you can suddenly put in a major predator in amongst the
:04:15. > :04:20.human population, there will be ongoing problems. It would have to
:04:20. > :04:25.be something we were really sure that we had an understanding of how
:04:26. > :04:31.we were doing it and how we would operate. I'd also how we would take
:04:31. > :04:38.action to remove them again if it became a serious problem. Even in an
:04:38. > :04:42.urban, rural place like this, one small change can have a big impact
:04:42. > :04:45.on the economy and ecology. Everyone who lives and works in the
:04:45. > :04:55.countryside wanted to be healthy and vibrant. So should all this nature
:04:55. > :04:58.be nurtured or should we allowed to I'm joined now from Inverness by
:04:58. > :05:00.Alan Watson Featherstone. He's the executive director of Trees for Life
:05:00. > :05:03.who supports many "rewilding" initiatives. And with me in Glasgow
:05:03. > :05:09.is Davy McCracken, who is an upland ecologist with Scotland's Rural
:05:09. > :05:14.College. Let us not get into the details of
:05:14. > :05:18.this particular case sea eagles, they are currently investigating
:05:18. > :05:23.it, but is it your impression that there is a general hostility amongst
:05:23. > :05:28.landowners to the B integer chin -- to the reintroduction of these
:05:28. > :05:32.raptors? Adding there is a variety of response. Some people are
:05:32. > :05:37.enthusiastic and others are concerned. I think over the populace
:05:37. > :05:42.as a whole, there has been a movement in a very popular -- in a
:05:42. > :05:48.very positive direction. We're also looking now at the spree on the red
:05:48. > :05:58.kite they need a successful comeback and have had one. You have ambitions
:05:58. > :06:00.
:06:00. > :06:03.to reintroduce Elks and Wills and even bears. What is the point of all
:06:04. > :06:09.of this? We think that all these species have a crucial role to pray
:06:09. > :06:13.-- to play and we as an organisation want that but it has to be a
:06:13. > :06:16.decision at a national level. why should we want to do this?
:06:16. > :06:24.Adding the main reason is seeing that they have a crucial role to
:06:24. > :06:28.play as your clip indicated early. -- earlier. Most of the forest cover
:06:28. > :06:34.is now gone, predators are gone, and the ecosystem is not able to recover
:06:34. > :06:40.at the moment. Large areas, particularly in the North West
:06:40. > :06:45.Highlands are a state of depression. Other areas are not in a state of
:06:45. > :06:52.health. If you imagine what would happen in East Africa if you take
:06:52. > :07:01.away the lions, cheetahs and lepers, -- leopards, things are
:07:01. > :07:07.going to decline. All right. Davy McCracken, do you buy that? Yes, as
:07:07. > :07:14.you said in the peace and as he said the period of two rationales as to
:07:14. > :07:20.why we should consider bringing back some native species. One is a moral
:07:20. > :07:23.one, they were persecuted by humans. But also as was being said they are,
:07:23. > :07:33.they are a part of the normal ecosystem functioning. Something
:07:33. > :07:42.like predator, Opel Flora Brown bear, could increase the resilience
:07:42. > :07:48.of the habitat. But you can understand why the people that own
:07:48. > :07:54.the biggest dates in the Highlands are as saying, hang on a minute, you
:07:54. > :07:59.want wolves? Suppose would be they are no natural predators. --
:07:59. > :08:06.supposedly. But they have made our multi-million pound industry by
:08:06. > :08:12.replacing the things that held dear. I can understand that point I can
:08:12. > :08:17.understand concerns from the farming community as well. Those able have
:08:17. > :08:24.livestock out there and would be concerned about how the impact would
:08:24. > :08:28.work on their livelihoods. That is why before we have introduction of
:08:28. > :08:37.these all species we have to see what the impact would be in existing
:08:37. > :08:43.habitats and existing species. Essentially all this task about
:08:43. > :08:53.going back to nature, there is no such thing as nature, not anywhere.
:08:53. > :08:59.
:08:59. > :09:09.It is about choices made by humans about how we fancy our landscape.
:09:09. > :09:19.The partial skull enable a sense anyway that the North of America has
:09:19. > :09:21.
:09:21. > :09:25.been. I was reading one of your papers. You say you cannot go back
:09:25. > :09:30.to what the forest used to be like, simply because we do not know
:09:30. > :09:33.exactly what the forest used to be like and simply because it is a
:09:33. > :09:43.simply different context node when BB introduce even the likes of
:09:43. > :09:49.plants. This is largely mystical, isn't it? No, it is not the case at
:09:49. > :09:54.all. But it is right that it is about choice. As humans, we have the
:09:54. > :10:00.heated that piece of the planet. Do we want to continue to do that in a
:10:00. > :10:03.way that exerts human values and human domination over every other
:10:03. > :10:11.aspect of the world or are we willing to step back from some
:10:11. > :10:20.places where we could let the rest of nature continue its path. But we
:10:20. > :10:25.would not be doing that. If we were to be introduced Beers, they would
:10:25. > :10:32.have to be fenced in and Saudi strict did, surely this is the
:10:32. > :10:36.fantasy sense about nature. I do not think it has to be that way.
:10:36. > :10:43.Obviously, the beer would maybe be most problematic of the mammals that
:10:43. > :10:48.we are missing. But when you come to the likes of the links, other
:10:48. > :10:53.countries have reintroduced in there is no reason why could not do that.
:10:53. > :10:59.We believe we could have up to 600 links in Scotland without any
:10:59. > :11:06.changes to the landscape. If it is a big human choices, you can
:11:06. > :11:14.understand that people saying I would love to introduce a new
:11:14. > :11:24.flower, but when you say, we are going to put them rules a few mails
:11:24. > :11:24.
:11:24. > :11:28.from you, it is going to cause alarm? Yes, obviously when it comes
:11:28. > :11:38.to these large predators, it would have to be done in consultation with
:11:38. > :11:39.
:11:39. > :11:43.the local community so the understand the implications. Some
:11:43. > :11:48.people say that the type of farming you have an alias affected by this
:11:48. > :11:57.would not be economically viable. It is entirely subsidised and it is a
:11:57. > :12:06.social choice. That is a good point to come in on. A large part of the
:12:06. > :12:13.debate has been driven by the fact that the lowland landscapes are very
:12:13. > :12:20.intensively managed. We have today recognise that a large part of the
:12:20. > :12:23.farming in the uplands and Highlands support a large amount of wildlife
:12:23. > :12:27.and plant life. We would need to make sure that the implication of
:12:27. > :12:34.the introducing of any where wives does not affect that sort of
:12:34. > :12:42.resource. Very briefly, Alan, you believe the in your lifetime we will
:12:42. > :12:46.have beers in Scotland? As I said, I think beers are the most
:12:46. > :12:51.problematic. I would certainly like to see the links cat coming back in.
:12:51. > :12:57.Things about the Wolf, I am not so sure about. I think there has to be
:12:57. > :13:01.a sea change in public opinion about that. We are still brought up with
:13:01. > :13:08.fairytales about Little red Riding at which paint the rules any totally
:13:08. > :13:13.false picture as an evil malicious creature, which is it is not.
:13:13. > :13:16.Wolves are cuddly! We are sticking with big beasts, of
:13:16. > :13:18.sorts, now. Because if you thought Tam Dalyell's opposition to
:13:18. > :13:20.devolution, never mind independence, might have softened in retirement,
:13:20. > :13:29.you are in for a shock. The long-standing arch-opponent of
:13:29. > :13:33.devolution has been speaking to our Westminster correspondent. Like the
:13:33. > :13:40.peacocks that pervades in the garden of his ancestral home near
:13:40. > :13:49.Linlithgow, Tam Dalyell has never been afraid to ruffle a few
:13:49. > :13:54.feathers. In his 40 years in the Commons, he was an advocate of
:13:54. > :13:59.sometimes unfashionable causes. He famously clashed with Margaret
:13:59. > :14:09.Thatcher over the Falklands war. The sinking of the general bill Colonel
:14:09. > :14:11.
:14:11. > :14:18.cruiser. He also fell out with his own party leader over military
:14:18. > :14:22.action. He lump as did Tony Blair over his commitment to troops in
:14:22. > :14:30.Kosovo and Iraq. He is best-known for his opposition Scottish
:14:30. > :14:34.devolution. We are only motorway to a separate state. It is the journey
:14:34. > :14:42.many others do not want to embark on. The Scottish Parliament is no
:14:42. > :14:49.reality. But time has not diminished as opposition to the institution.
:14:49. > :14:53.would bring to an end the Edinburgh Parliament. With the referendum just
:14:53. > :14:59.15 months ago on independence, he remains opposed to the idea of
:15:00. > :15:06.putting the issue to a popular vote. Referendums are really about
:15:06. > :15:13.what they purport to be about. A lot depends on the popularity of the
:15:13. > :15:19.Government of the time. And who is seeing what and who is more popular.
:15:19. > :15:27.I am against referendums. On the contrary, he said the referendum
:15:27. > :15:36.will settle nothing. There are people here, Alex Salmond is one of
:15:36. > :15:45.them, who will go on and on and on. We are both citizens of Linlithgow.
:15:45. > :15:51.I have known him a very long time. But I have no doubt that he wants a
:15:51. > :15:58.separate Scottish state. If he doesn't, many of his colleagues do.
:15:58. > :16:02.They are not going to give up. are saying that the referendum on
:16:02. > :16:12.Scottish independence will settle nothing? Yes, it will go on and on
:16:12. > :16:15.and on. We will have only run in the next decade. If we have this
:16:15. > :16:24.conversation in two years time, what you think the situation in Scotland
:16:24. > :16:28.will be? I will be 83 years old then. Ice doublethink, thankfully,
:16:28. > :16:36.we will still be in the United Kingdom. I think that good sense
:16:36. > :16:41.will prevail. If we having conversation in two years time and
:16:41. > :16:51.Scots have voted for independence, what will the consequences of that
:16:51. > :16:51.
:16:51. > :17:00.be? Dire. Dire. Now a quick look at tomorrow's front
:17:00. > :17:09.pages. Starting with the Scotsman, Osborne under fire for the sacking
:17:09. > :17:14.of the Royal Bank of Scotland chief. And that is all from me. Just